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katroofjebus wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
What do you think of Riktare's question: "Wouldn't this mean then that adjutant mind-spirits servicing an animal don't contribute to the growth of The Supreme Being but that adjutant mind-spirits servicing a human may?"


I think Riktare is essentially right. Reference:

(1286.5) 117:5.7 The great circuits of energy, mind, and spirit are never the permanent possessions of ascending personality; these ministries remain forever a part of Supremacy. In the mortal experience the human intellect resides in the rhythmic pulsations of the adjutant mind-spirits and effects its decisions within the arena produced by encircuitment within this ministry. Upon mortal death the human self is everlastingly divorced from the adjutant circuit. While these adjutants never seem to transmit experience from one personality to another, they can and do transmit the impersonal repercussions of decision-action through God the Sevenfold to God the Supreme. (At least this is true of the adjutants of worship and wisdom.)


Sorry to press....but what are the "impersonal repercussions of decision-action" do you think?

I answered Riktare's question thusly above: "I don't think that's quite right Riktare. But perhaps I don't understand the question...or the answer - hahaha. The highest two adjutants, worship and wisdom, repercuss in the human/mortal mind by evolutionary, faith based religious experience by which righteousness does go to soul and to the Supreme. Nothing goes to the Supreme, I do not think, except via the Holy Spirit from the soul. The experiences of truth, beauty, and goodness may derive in mortal mind from the highest adjutant ministry. I think this is a two step process - human mind to soul, soul to Supreme - and the soul/mid/moronitia mind is not connected to the adjutants.

However the quote does seem to logically imply that there is a difference between prepersonality levels and personality ministry...or the lower 5 compared to the upper 2...so perhaps you read it right after all. The issue is the lower adjutants do not release or connect the Holy Spirit ministry but the higher ones do but is it the higher adjutants that repercuss in the Supreme Being or the soul and Holy Spirit? Sounds like we need to consider researching more about the Supreme and the soul."


So I guess my response was limited to and about the personal repercussions of decision action...so my answer's inaccuracy was in its incompleteness?

Personal repercussions repercuss in soul and the Supreme. But there are impersonal repercussions that go to the Supreme via God the Sevenfold which originate from and by and through the higher adjutants. I am still trying to distinguish how the adjutants are connected to soul...but I mistakenly thought and claimed that the adjutants did not feed the Supreme....obviously they do...but not through the soul. Very interesting.

Thanks again for being here....excellent explorations and discovery for me!!

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fanofVan wrote:
And what is the role of the higher adjutants during our circle progress and spiritization by the TA and higher Spirits during our initial, material life on the world of origin? How are they connected to soul, if at all? The mortal mind is still making Circle Progress decisions and facing all of our choices with cognitive material mind...so how do the adjutants of worship and wisdom function on behalf of personal spiritual progress and the religious experience of mortal mind once soul is born and the Holy Spirit, TA, and Spirit of Truth are engaged?


The spirits of worship and wisdom cross the threshold into spiritual ministry and thus allow the mind to become included in the spiritual circuits of the Divine Minister. The threshold is part of a doorway, the doorway to the Holy Spirit of the soul. It's the united function of all seven adjutants with wisdom as the director of mortal mind ministry which is able to cross the threshold from the material side, while there is a simultaneous down reach of the Holy Spirit extending partially over it. Perfection hunger is sufficient to maintain the connection from below, faith keeps it going from above. References:

(379.3) 34:5.3 Mortal man first experiences the ministry of the Spirit in conjunction with mind when the purely animal mind of evolutionary creatures develops reception capacity for the adjutants of worship and of wisdom. This ministry of the sixth and seventh adjutants indicates mind evolution crossing the threshold of spiritual ministry. And immediately are such minds of worship- and wisdom-function included in the spiritual circuits of the Divine Minister.

(739.3) 65:7.7 The adjutants function exclusively in the evolution of experiencing mind up to the level of the sixth phase, the spirit of worship. At this level there occurs that inevitable overlapping of ministry — the phenomenon of the higher reaching down to co-ordinate with the lower in anticipation of subsequent attainment of advanced levels of development. And still additional spirit ministry accompanies the action of the seventh and last adjutant, the spirit of wisdom. Throughout the ministry of the spirit world the individual never experiences abrupt transitions of spirit co-operation; always are these changes gradual and reciprocal.

fanofVan wrote:
And what's the difference between the Holy Spirit and Cosmic Mind?


The Holy Spirit is the personal presence of the Divine Minister of Nebadon. The cosmic mind is the impersonal Nebadon variant of the Orvonton type of mind provided by the Seventh Master Spirit. The mind of man is not only an adjutant mind, but also a cosmic mind to which the adjutants minister on the material level and the Holy Spirit on the morontia level. After death, the personality depends upon contact with the cosmic mind and the Holy Spirit rather than contact with the adjutants. References:

(403.4) 36:5.16 The adjutant mind-spirits are in no manner directly related to the diverse and highly spiritual function of the spirit of the personal presence of the Divine Minister, the Holy Spirit of the inhabited worlds; but they are functionally antecedent to, and preparatory for, the appearance of this very spirit in evolutionary man.

(102.3) 9:4.3 The mind endowment of the seven superuniverses is derived from the Seven Master Spirits, the primary personalities of the Conjoint Creator. These Master Spirits distribute mind to the grand universe as the cosmic mind, and your local universe is pervaded by the Nebadon variant of the Orvonton type of cosmic mind.

(103.2) 9.5.4  Since the Third Person of Deity is the source of mind, it is quite natural that the evolutionary will creatures find it easier to form comprehensible concepts of the Infinite Spirit than they do of either the Eternal Son or the Universal Father. The reality of the Conjoint Creator is disclosed imperfectly in the very existence of human mind. The Conjoint Creator is the ancestor of the cosmic mind, and the mind of man is an individualized circuit, an impersonal portion, of that cosmic mind as it is bestowed in a local universe by a Creative Daughter of the Third Source and Center.

(1236.4) 112:6.6 There are no influences in the local universe career comparable to the seven adjutant mind-spirits of human existence. The morontia mind must evolve by direct contact with cosmic mind, as this cosmic mind has been modified and translated by the creative source of local universe intellect — the Divine Minister.

(1211.6) 110:6.21 The seven circles embrace mortal experience extending from the highest purely animal level to the lowest actual contactual morontia level of self-consciousness as a personality experience. The mastery of the first cosmic circle signalizes the attainment of premorontia mortal maturity and marks the termination of the conjoint ministry of the adjutant mind-spirits as an exclusive influence of mind action in the human personality. Beyond the first circle, mind becomes increasingly akin to the intelligence of the morontia stage of evolution, the conjoined ministry of the cosmic mind and the superadjutant endowment of the Creative Spirit of a local universe.


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fanofVan wrote:
Sorry to press....but what are the "impersonal repercussions of decision-action" do you think?


Here's but one way to think of it: I believe it has to do with the evolutionary changes man causes within the various impersonal ministries that are borrowed during their lifetimes, specifically mind ministry. Mind itself is impersonal as is mind gravity. The adjutants themselves do not become a part of the soul, but I think they are altered by man's usage of them as indicated in (1287.3) 117:5.12. The repercussions of every decision-action are both personal and impersonal. The impersonal consequences of man's actions become part of the whole, they are God's, while the personal character transformations are consequences which remain with each individual who is a part of the whole. Reference:

(1287.1) 117:5.10 How do these manifold circuits of cosmic ministry register the meanings, values, and facts of evolutionary experience in the Supreme? We are not exactly certain, but we believe that this registry takes place through the persons of the Supreme Creators of Paradise origin who are the immediate bestowers of these circuits of time and space. The mind-experience accumulations of the seven adjutant mind-spirits, in their ministry to the physical level of intellect, are a part of the local universe experience of the Divine Minister, and through this Creative Spirit they probably find registry in the mind of Supremacy. Likewise are mortal experiences with the Spirit of Truth and the Holy Spirit probably registered by similar techniques in the person of Supremacy.

(1287.2) 117:5.11 Even the experience of man and Adjuster must find echo in the divinity of God the Supreme, for, as the Adjusters experience, they are like the Supreme, and the evolving soul of mortal man is created out of the pre-existent possibility for such experience within the Supreme.

(1287.3) 117:5.12 In this manner do the manifold experiences of all creation become a part of the evolution of Supremacy. Creatures merely utilize the qualities and quantities of the finite as they ascend to the Father; the impersonal consequences of such utilization remain forever a part of the living cosmos, the Supreme person.

(1287.4) 117:5.13 What man himself takes with him as a personality possession are the character consequences of the experience of having used the mind and spirit circuits of the grand universe in his Paradise ascent. When man decides, and when he consummates this decision in action, man experiences, and the meanings and the values of this experience are forever a part of his eternal character on all levels, from the finite to the final. Cosmically moral and divinely spiritual character represents the creature’s capital accumulation of personal decisions which have been illuminated by sincere worship, glorified by intelligent love, and consummated in brotherly service.


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katroofjebus wrote:
[...] Personality is bestowed upon cosmic mind, [...] References:

(1225.4) 112:0.4 2. It may be bestowed upon any living energy system which includes mind or spirit.


Just to be more precise, "any living energy system which includes mind or spirit" is not the same as "cosmic mind".

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Precision and specificity are important. For example, to be specific, my dog has adjutant mind, therefore adjutant mind does not equal, mean, or even indicate human mind without additional qualifiers and specifications. How do you describe the mind endowment of the animal kingdom otherwise if not as "adjutant mind"? If not adjutant mind....then what?

34:4.9 (378.3) The superevolutionary orders of personality in a local universe are endowed with the local universe type of the superuniverse pattern of mind. The human and the subhuman orders of evolutionary life are endowed with the adjutant spirit types of mind ministration.

36:5.13 (403.1) The adjutant mind-spirits experientially grow, but they never become personal. They evolve in function, and the function of the first five in the animal orders is to a certain extent essential to the function of all seven as human intellect. This animal relationship makes the adjutants more practically effective as human mind; hence animals are to a certain extent indispensable to man’s intellectual as well as to his physical evolution.

As to kat's claim that "personality is bestowed upon cosmic mind"...the UB says that all mind in time and space is cosmic mind...see 42:10.6. 111:1.2 tells us that self also has its origins in cosmic mind. 12:8.3 informs us of how mind is the connection between the spirit and the material and that personality is bestowed upon mind...cosmic mind...as personality is what binds mind to spirit. 112:5.20 explains that personality or personalized is the self or selfhood which is bestowed upon cosmic mind...or so I understand.

42:10.6 (481.3) The cosmic mind. This is the sevenfold diversified mind of time and space, one phase of which is ministered by each of the Seven Master Spirits to one of the seven superuniverses. The cosmic mind encompasses all finite-mind levels and co-ordinates experientially with the evolutionary-deity levels of the Supreme Mind and transcendentally with the existential levels of absolute mind—the direct circuits of the Conjoint Actor.

111:1.2 (1216.3) There is a cosmic unity in the several mind levels of the universe of universes. Intellectual selves have their origin in the cosmic mind much as nebulae take origin in the cosmic energies of universe space. On the human (hence personal) level of intellectual selves the potential of spirit evolution becomes dominant, with the assent of the mortal mind, because of the spiritual endowments of the human personality together with the creative presence of an entity-point of absolute value in such human selves. But such a spirit dominance of the material mind is conditioned upon two experiences: This mind must have evolved up through the ministry of the seven adjutant mind-spirits, and the material (personal) self must choose to co-operate with the indwelling Adjuster in creating and fostering the morontia self, the evolutionary and potentially immortal soul.

112:5.20 (1235.2) The fact of repersonalization consists in the seizure of the encircuited morontia phase of the newly segregated cosmic mind by the awakening human self. The phenomenon of personality is dependent on the persistence of the identity of selfhood reaction to universe environment; and this can only be effected through the medium of mind. Selfhood persists in spite of a continuous change in all the factor components of self; in the physical life the change is gradual; at death and upon repersonalization the change is sudden. The true reality of all selfhood (personality) is able to function responsively to universe conditions by virtue of the unceasing changing of its constituent parts; stagnation terminates in inevitable death. Human life is an endless change of the factors of life unified by the stability of the unchanging personality.

Sometimes research and asking for clarification delivers greater understanding. I look forward to your own contributions regarding adjutants and the soul.

As to the "significance of adjutant mind" - the ministry of all of the adjutants upon all teachable-evolutionary-material mind working in conjunction with the life carriers to create beings who evolve from single cell life forms to self aware and self determined spirit responsive beings of eternal potential is a grand story of God's extreme distribution of his nature and power and plan for experiential perfecting. This story of creationism and evolution is so poignant and elegant in its portrayal of the creation of potential as the expression of creation which results in the endless cycle of actualization of potential creating evermore potential for further realization and still greater potential....endlessly.


Last edited by fanofVan on Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:09 am +0000, edited 4 times in total.

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supermath wrote:
Just to be more precise, "any living energy system which includes mind or spirit" is not the same as "cosmic mind".


I agree, and to be more specific, unless it is "pure mind", mind manifests itself as part of an energy system. References:

(104:4.4) 9.6.6  Cosmic mind, when not associated with either energy or spirit, is subject to the gravity demands of neither material nor spiritual circuits. Pure mind is subject only to the universal gravity grasp of the Conjoint Actor. Pure mind is close of kin to infinite mind, and infinite mind (the theoretical co-ordinate of the absolutes of spirit and energy) is apparently a law in itself.

(403.5) 36:5.17 Nonspiritual mind is either a spirit-energy manifestation or a physical-energy phenomenon.


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fanofVan wrote:
Question: Is mortal mind spiritized? Or is only the soul?


Thoughts or idea-decisions get spiritized if they have potential spiritual value. The thoughts arise from the material mind but the phenomenon of spiritization takes place in the soul because it is an act of the Thought Adjuster. The Thought Adjuster adjusts these thoughts in such a way that they become useful to the material mind. But that mind must have worship and wisdom at the threshold of the soul, both for transforming and elevating thought in the first place and for receiving the adjusted thought after it has been spiritized and made available for association.

(1112:3) 101:6.7 Revelation teaches mortal man that, to start such a magnificent and intriguing adventure through space by means of the progression of time, he should begin by the organization of knowledge into idea-decisions; next, mandate wisdom to labor unremittingly at its noble task of transforming self-possessed ideas into increasingly practical but nonetheless supernal ideals, even those concepts which are so reasonable as ideas and so logical as ideals that the Adjuster dares so to combine and spiritize them as to render them available for such association in the finite mind as will constitute them the actual human complement thus made ready for the action of the Truth Spirit of the Sons, the time-space manifestations of Paradise truth—universal truth. The co-ordination of idea-decisions, logical ideals, and divine truth constitutes the possession of a righteous character, the prerequisite for mortal admission to the ever-expanding and increasingly spiritual realities of the morontia worlds.


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fanofVan wrote:
So far, being disagreeable with me appears to be your only purpose and "way" here. Still nothing on your topic?


"54:6.8 (619.5) Shortsighted and time-bound mortal minds should be slow to criticize the time delays of the farseeing and all-wise administrators of universe affairs."

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fanofVan wrote:
Is it our minds that enjoy and reflect Circle Progress or only our cosmic mind/soul/midmind?


Perhaps it isn't clear that both the material mind and the soul are separate entities with overlapping consciousness contained within an individualized portion of the Nebadon variant of the Orvonton type of cosmic mind? The consciousness of mind ministry is an phenomenon dependent upon capacity of receptivity. This is how I understand the structure of mind ministry and human consciousness.

Conquest of the cosmic circles of self mastery deserves its own discussion. I think it is an experience of the entire personality, of which mind is only a part.


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supermath wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
So far, being disagreeable with me appears to be your only purpose and "way" here. Still nothing on your topic?


"54:6.8 (619.5) Shortsighted and time-bound mortal minds should be slow to criticize the time delays of the farseeing and all-wise administrators of universe affairs."


:?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :roll:


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katroofjebus wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
Is it our minds that enjoy and reflect Circle Progress or only our cosmic mind/soul/midmind?


Perhaps it isn't clear that both the material mind and the soul are separate entities with overlapping consciousness contained within an individualized portion of the Nebadon variant of the Orvonton type of cosmic mind? The consciousness of mind ministry is an phenomenon dependent upon capacity of receptivity. This is how I understand the structure of mind ministry and human consciousness.

Conquest of the cosmic circles of self mastery deserves its own discussion. I think it is an experience of the entire personality, of which mind is only a part.


One thing for sure, the fruits of the spirit are experienced in and expressed by mortal mind as well as in soul. Must be the overlapping consciousness you mention.

The UB says we mortals of Urantia suffer rather acute distress between the material mind and our mid-mind/soul and that this differentiation is not so distressful on most worlds where spiritization is a more normalized educational process. Our lack of example makes it more difficult for us to transfer the seat of identity and to transition from a unified nature by the adjutant ministry and internal religious experience.

34:7.3 (382.3) The mortals of a normal world do not experience constant warfare between their physical and spiritual natures. They are confronted with the necessity of climbing up from the animal levels of existence to the higher planes of spiritual living, but this ascent is more like undergoing an educational training when compared with the intense conflicts of Urantia mortals in this realm of the divergent material and spiritual natures.

34:7.4 (382.4) The Urantia peoples are suffering the consequences of a double deprivation of help in this task of progressive planetary spiritual attainment. The Caligastia upheaval precipitated world-wide confusion and robbed all subsequent generations of the moral assistance which a well-ordered society would have provided. But even more disastrous was the Adamic default in that it deprived the races of that superior type of physical nature which would have been more consonant with spiritual aspirations.

34:7.5 (382.5) Urantia mortals are compelled to undergo such marked struggling between the spirit and the flesh because their remote ancestors were not more fully Adamized by the Edenic bestowal. It was the divine plan that the mortal races of Urantia should have had physical natures more naturally spirit responsive.


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fanofVan wrote:
Our lack of example makes it more difficult for us to transfer the seat of identity and to transition from a unified nature by the adjutant ministry and internal religious experience.


Are mortals transitioning "from a unified nature" or "to a unified nature"? Is that transition accomplished by the adjutants or by the personality, the unifier?

I don't think personality itself is much affected by the unfortunate events that transpired on this planet. Adjusters, who participate in the personality circuit of the Father, are not affected at all by rebellion or default. Certainly mind has had a rough go on this planet though. The rebels did all they could, with a vengeance, to muddle up man's mind, and the genetic loss slowed, and perhaps prevented, future capacity for receptivity of mind ministry. But fortunately for us, the soul is mostly unaffected. All of our souls were born after the rebellion and the additional mind ministries supplied with soul birth more than compensate, not to mention the presence of the Spirit of Truth. It appears we have many work-arounds.


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fanofVan wrote:
Is wisdom divided between material and spiritual?


There is perfecting evolutionary wisdom and perfect divine wisdom. Mortals do not possess divine wisdom but are in the process of acquiring experiential, evolutionary wisdom. Divine wisdom is already perfect thus has no need to evolve. Apparently neither of these two types of wisdom exhausts all the potentials of possible wisdom however. I believe that might be due to the evolving Supreme in this universe age, but that is speculation, of course. Reference:

(216.2) 19:2.4 Wisdom is twofold in origin, being derived from the perfection of divine insight inherent in perfect beings and from the personal experience acquired by evolutionary creatures. The Perfectors of Wisdom are the divine wisdom of the Paradise perfection of Deity insight. Their administrative associates on Uversa, the Mighty Messengers, Those without Name and Number, and Those High in Authority, when acting together, are the universe wisdom of experience. A divine being can have perfection of divine knowledge. An evolutionary mortal can sometime attain perfection of ascendant knowledge, but neither of these beings alone exhausts the potentials of all possible wisdom. Accordingly, whenever in the conduct of the superuniverse it is desired to achieve the maximum of administrative wisdom, these perfectors of the wisdom of divine insight are always associated with those ascendant personalities who have come up to the high responsibilities of superuniverse authority through the experiential tribulations of evolutionary progression.

fanofVan wrote:
Do those reside in different places?


I believe the Thought Adjuster, Spirit of Truth and Holy Spirit possess divine wisdom. Mortal material mind, and the evolving soul are both experiential and therefore do not possess divine wisdom as do Deity.


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katroofjebus wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
Our lack of example makes it more difficult for us to transfer the seat of identity and to transition from a unified nature by the adjutant ministry and internal religious experience.


Are mortals transitioning "from a unified nature" or "to a unified nature"? Is that transition accomplished by the adjutants or by the personality, the unifier?


Yes...meant to say "toward", not "from". Thanks.


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katroofjebus wrote:
Apparently neither of these two types of wisdom exhausts all the potentials of possible wisdom however.

In Urantia speak, the former is existential, the latter potential.

I get my ideas from 104.3 to 105. Take a good look at the seven-fold self-differentiation of the monistic I AM.


kind of off-topic though. well actually somehow related as we will see

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