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My Take: The Spirit is, in the simplest of terms, Love. God is Love and God is a Spirit Being. God’s Spirit is Love. Jesus, a Son of God, the creator of our little corner of the Universes of Universes, is, almost by definition, a branch of the Living Love, which is God. Our little planet is affected by (2) great Spirit currents… one is the Universe Spirit, the Spirit which draws all spirit beings towards the great center, and the other is the Spirit of Truth, our gift from Jesus when he left this world to attend to the rest of his universe. Both these Spirits are around us, in us and, thru us, given to others as love. So when we give love to another, we are sharing the fruits of the Spirit(s). And, per the Authors, the best and perhaps only way to grow within the Spirit, is to share the Spirit. So when we share love, are sharing the Spirit, and simultaneously growing within the Spirit.

Does that make sense?

Al


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alwilliams767 wrote:
Does that make sense?


fanofVan said we grow fruit by first giving love to others in response to Spirit. My confusion is the use of the word "first". What does that mean? What comes first?

Is giving love to others first, or is the response to spirit first? And, is fruit really caused by a response "to" spirit or is it caused by identifying "with" spirit? References:

(381.6) 34:6.12 And when such a life of spirit guidance is freely and intelligently accepted, there gradually develops within the human mind a positive consciousness of divine contact and assurance of spirit communion; sooner or later “the Spirit bears witness with your spirit (the Adjuster) that you are a child of God.” Already has your own Thought Adjuster told you of your kinship to God so that the record testifies that the Spirit bears witness “with your spirit,” not to your spirit.

(1601.3) 142:5.3 “The Supreme Spirit shall bear witness with your spirits that you are truly the children of God.

How do you know what love is in the "first" place? If humans have to be known to be loved and spirit has to be loved to be known, loving humans will take a lot of "getting to know you". References:

(1118.4) 102:1.1   The work of the Thought Adjuster constitutes the explanation of the translation of man’s primitive and evolutionary sense of duty into that higher and more certain faith in the eternal realities of revelation. There must be perfection hunger in man’s heart to insure capacity for comprehending the faith paths to supreme attainment. If any man chooses to do the divine will, he shall know the way of truth. It is literally true, “Human things must be known in order to be loved, but divine things must be loved in order to be known.”

(1098.3) 100:4.6 You cannot truly love your fellows by a mere act of the will. Love is only born of thoroughgoing understanding of your neighbor’s motives and sentiments. It is not so important to love all men today as it is that each day you learn to love one more human being. If each day or each week you achieve an understanding of one more of your fellows, and if this is the limit of your ability, then you are certainly socializing and truly spiritualizing your personality. Love is infectious, and when human devotion is intelligent and wise, love is more catching than hate. But only genuine and unselfish love is truly contagious. If each mortal could only become a focus of dynamic affection, this benign virus of love would soon pervade the sentimental emotion-stream of humanity to such an extent that all civilization would be encompassed by love, and that would be the realization of the brotherhood of man.

If the fruits of the spirit are character traits, and those character traits are derived from the character of Jesus working within the soul as the Spirit of Truth, then is giving love to others the first step in the process of fruit growth? Wouldn't loving Jesus be the first step? Wouldn't a personality need to be truth-taught first? That's my question. And another question, is being born of the spirit a requisite for fruit bearing? References:

(2062.10) 194:3.1 The Creator Son, in the flesh, revealed God to men; the Spirit of Truth, in the heart, reveals the Creator Son to men. When man yields the "fruits of the spirit" in his life, he is simply showing forth the traits which the Master manifested in his own earthly life. When Jesus was on earth, he lived his life as one personality--Jesus of Nazareth. As the indwelling spirit of the "new teacher," the Master has, since Pentecost, been able to live his life anew in the experience of every truth-taught believer.

(1610.3) 143:2.8 "If, then, my children, you are born of the spirit, you are forever delivered from the self-conscious bondage of a life of self-denial and watchcare over the desires of the flesh, and you are translated into the joyous kingdom of the spirit, whence you spontaneously show forth the fruits of the spirit in your daily lives; and the fruits of the spirit are the essence of the highest type of enjoyable and ennobling self-control, even the heights of terrestrial mortal attainment--true self-mastery."


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katroofjebus wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
we grow the fruit of the Spirit by first giving love to others in response to the Spirit.


How does that work exactly?


Exactly???? Hahahaha..... A subject worthy of its own topic and discussion. Don't want to go too far on a tangent here, however.....

My understanding is that the religious experience begins with urges related to morality by the adjutants and yearns/hunger by the TA that we choose to respond to which results in the evolutionary experience of faith and the revelatory experience of truth, or the budding religious experience. Every decision that is a response to or expression of the religious experience attaches the branch to the vine which delivers the fruit of the Spirit. The Spirit(s) initiate the cause and we respond in effect which becomes its own cause of further effect.

When soul is born, we have made a decision which recognizes self interest vs. other than self interest in favor of another/others...it's a decision of self forgetting service and not just a "moral" choice...it is deliberately and intentionally so. This birth of soul is, I believe, the attachment of the branch to the vine. Love has flowed through this personality already I think in most cases....they have already loved a parent and they have felt love, the love of a parent, and so the connection to the universal love circuit has already been made.

The more we grow in faith and truth and love, the more fruits of the Spirit are grown for the sharing and the caring.

180:2.5 (1946.3) When there exists this living connection between divinity and humanity, if humanity should thoughtlessly and ignorantly pray for selfish ease and vainglorious accomplishments, there could be only one divine answer: more and increased bearing of the fruits of the spirit on the stems of the living branches. When the branch of the vine is alive, there can be only one answer to all its petitions: increased grape bearing. In fact, the branch exists only for, and can do nothing except, fruit bearing, yielding grapes. So does the true believer exist only for the purpose of bearing the fruits of the spirit: to love man as he himself has been loved by God—that we should love one another, even as Jesus has loved us.

140:10.6 (1585.4) This new religion of Jesus was not without its practical implications, but whatever of practical political, social, or economic value there is to be found in his teaching is the natural outworking of this inner experience of the soul as it manifests the fruits of the spirit in the spontaneous daily ministry of genuine personal religious experience.

5:2.4 (64.7) It is because of this God fragment that indwells you that you can hope, as you progress in harmonizing with the Adjuster’s spiritual leadings, more fully to discern the presence and transforming power of those other spiritual influences that surround you and impinge upon you but do not function as an integral part of you. The fact that you are not intellectually conscious of close and intimate contact with the indwelling Adjuster does not in the least disprove such an exalted experience. The proof of fraternity with the divine Adjuster consists wholly in the nature and extent of the fruits of the spirit which are yielded in the life experience of the individual believer. “By their fruits you shall know them.”

176:3.5 (1917.1) “To every one who has, more shall be given, and he shall have abundance; but from him who has not, even that which he has shall be taken away. You cannot stand still in the affairs of the eternal kingdom. My Father requires all his children to grow in grace and in a knowledge of the truth. You who know these truths must yield the increase of the fruits of the spirit and manifest a growing devotion to the unselfish service of your fellow servants. And remember that, inasmuch as you minister to one of the least of my brethren, you have done this service to me.

102:6.7 (1125.2) Belief may not be able to resist doubt and withstand fear, but faith is always triumphant over doubting, for faith is both positive and living. The positive always has the advantage over the negative, truth over error, experience over theory, spiritual realities over the isolated facts of time and space. The convincing evidence of this spiritual certainty consists in the social fruits of the spirit which such believers, faithers, yield as a result of this genuine spiritual experience. Said Jesus: “If you love your fellows as I have loved you, then shall all men know that you are my disciples.”

99:5.6 (1091.5) Any religious belief which is effective in spiritualizing the believer is certain to have powerful repercussions in the social life of such a religionist. Religious experience unfailingly yields the “fruits of the spirit” in the daily life of the spirit-led mortal.

:biggrin:


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katroofjebus wrote:
alwilliams767 wrote:
Does that make sense?


fanofVan said we grow fruit by first giving love to others in response to Spirit. My confusion is the use of the word "first". What does that mean? What comes first?

Is giving love to others first, or is the response to spirit first? And, is fruit really caused by a response "to" spirit or is it caused by identifying "with" spirit?


I also said this appeared paradoxical to me....a real conundrum! I like your response and thinking on the matter kat!

8) Bradly


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I my recovery from Drugs Alcohol and a deep rooted life style that only severed me my self and I, I discovered the healing power of service work.
It is something that the 12 step community greatly encourages.

Of course I was resistant to it for I saw no logic in it, plus I was a selfish person who could not see past my own nose.

But many kept saying to my bring the body and the mind will follow, so I simply did as I was asked, not believing it would change any thing.

I was so wrong, slowly something I side me began to grow, a feeling of wanting to serve, absence of purpose, an interaction between ppl I had not experienced before,... something was awakening in side me I had no idea was there.
It grew in to a hunger that feed some part of me that had starved for so long it did not seem to exist, but here it was growing inside of me and I was beginning to experience many other doors opening in my spiritual awareness.

It was only one small step in my recovery that lead to some major transformations in my life, I’m now 33 year in recovery and that distant past me seems like some else’s life, not the person I am today.


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J. Barry wrote:
I my recovery from Drugs Alcohol and a deep rooted life style that only severed me my self and I, I discovered the healing power of service work.
It is something that the 12 step community greatly encourages.

Of course I was resistant to it for I saw no logic in it, plus I was a selfish person who could not see past my own nose.

But many kept saying to my bring the body and the mind will follow, so I simply did as I was asked, not believing it would change any thing.

I was so wrong, slowly something I side me began to grow, a feeling of wanting to serve, absence of purpose, an interaction between ppl I had not experienced before,... something was awakening in side me I had no idea was there.
It grew in to a hunger that feed some part of me that had starved for so long it did not seem to exist, but here it was growing inside of me and I was beginning to experience many other doors opening in my spiritual awareness.

It was only one small step in my recovery that lead to some major transformations in my life, I’m now 33 year in recovery and that distant past me seems like some else’s life, not the person I am today.


Congratulations
I’ve got much respect for NA/AA 12 stepping


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My reason for posting the service work experience was to demonstrate something science can not place under a microscope and psychology can’t fully explain, unless you except a spiritual element which I believe Maslow came close to discovering in his work on Selfactualization.

If we are truly to grow as Spirit being there must be an interchange of human contact, mainly service.


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Hello, Jim - and so nice to hear from you again here. It's been awhile.

I just want to say that I so enjoyed your beautiful experience with the program. I am glad and thankful that you shared it. It is the most beautiful thing to get a true spiritual experience and be able to demonstrate it. That is something that I have always felt was a very close connection between the program and The Urantia Book. I found both at the same time, and it was an enlightening experience.

Most of the fruits of the spirit can only be realized in relationship to another. It's all about relationship.

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And the fruits of the divine spirit which are yielded in the lives of spirit-born and God-knowing mortals are: loving service, unselfish devotion, courageous loyalty, sincere fairness, enlightened honesty, undying hope, confiding trust, merciful ministry, unfailing goodness, forgiving tolerance, and enduring peace.

https://truthbook.com/urantia-book/paper-193-final-appearances-and-ascension#U193_2_2

MaryJo


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Thank you, I love that quote, seems there are so many threads between the UB and the 12 program.


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wow got home tonight and BAM - reading the posts - J Barry and Bradly and everyone - even a couple of new people
Bradly really - who ARE you ? awesome replies in your own words - and here I AM just posting up UB papers and highlighting what i think is good stuff - yes back to basics - am not sure I can even get CLOSE to Bradly's off the top replies in his own words - is amazing ! and yes humility - as Vradly only lays it out for all and not for himself ... am just amazed at your detail and perfection in your posts my friend !
but let it out and let the Holy Spirit in !

JC said love god with all your heart - soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself - that is about as pure and simple as it gets

not sure if I can even get up to Bradly's Spiritual level on typing and relaying thoughts but will try in my own humble way
ok Bradly - not to boost you up but yes to say WOW and awesome work my friend !
would kind of like your phone number so I could call you and chat I might add - yah - would really like to talk on the phone for a few minutes anyway - I will call on my nickel but yes - would like to chat one day ...

yes we all wake up every day - and Love to family and then workmates and all you deal with every day - service and Love to help all as you can - I don't live in a war zone so is not too bad for me here in thailand - daily habits - go to work - come home - help out step grandfish - Salmon - Sardine - Salmon now taking drum lessons so I didn't teach him my keyboards so now drums 5 5 5

but seriously - yes we all have to pay bills and pay rent etc - but after that - it is what you show to all the others you meet every day - yah don;t have to give money - but a nice word - a hello - a hey how are you doing ? and said with Love in your voice to whoever you talk with - and take an interest in that person right then and now and show them that you care for them in the time you see them - anyway
gawd - cannot type fast enough to relay my thoughts
teh UB book is great - reading book 4 is blowing me away with the details - and the other books as well - like getting some real good stuff and making your daily life really grow in wisdom and in the Holy Spirit - helping all you can in YOUR life and your little universe of people is the key - no matter how small or big - just making sure your help other people out or service to others in your daily like and trying to drop as much selfishness as you can - me too - am trying every every day

anyway - am awe inspired tonight after reading all the posts whoa - and the personal stuff - as it is IS all personal in the Spirit of Man - and we all are here as humans NOW

aarrgghh - hope this helps 5 5 5 onwards and upwards ya'll !


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Bradly? hey I just happened to be on this next paper after reading the posts tonight - which is on my list of next paper to read
yes I know - humility and also that we cannot say where we are from - but anyway - yes we are all human I know
ok ok I got it - not to be a smart a** or anything as this is serious stuff living on this planet here and now



3. The Havona Worlds
14:3.1 (155.4) Concerning the government of the central universe, there is none. Havona is so exquisitely perfect that no intellectual system of government is required. There are no regularly constituted courts, neither are there legislative assemblies; Havona requires only administrative direction. Here may be observed the height of the ideals of true self-government.

14:3.2 (155.5) There is no need of government among such perfect and near-perfect intelligences. They stand in no need of regulation, for they are beings of native perfection interspersed with evolutionary creatures who have long since passed the scrutiny of the supreme tribunals of the superuniverses.

14:3.3 (155.6) The administration of Havona is not automatic, but it is marvelously perfect and divinely efficient. It is chiefly planetary and is vested in the resident Eternal of Days, each Havona sphere being directed by one of these Trinity-origin personalities. Eternals of Days are not creators, but they are perfect administrators. They teach with supreme skill and direct their planetary children with a perfection of wisdom bordering on absoluteness.


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ah ha

14:5.7 (159.3) Not until you traverse the last of the Havona circuits and visit the last of the Havona worlds, will the tonic of adventure and the stimulus of curiosity disappear from your career. And then will the urge, the forward impulse of eternity, replace its forerunner, the adventure lure of time.

14:5.8 (159.4) Monotony is indicative of immaturity of the creative imagination and inactivity of intellectual co-ordination with the spiritual endowment. By the time an ascendant mortal begins the exploration of these heavenly worlds, he has already attained emotional, intellectual, and social, if not spiritual, maturity.

14:5.9 (159.5) Not only will you find undreamed-of changes confronting you as you advance from circuit to circuit in Havona, but your astonishment will be inexpressible as you progress from planet to planet within each circuit. Each of these billion study worlds is a veritable university of surprises. Continuing astonishment, unending wonder, is the experience of those who traverse these circuits and tour these gigantic spheres. Monotony is not a part of the Havona career.

14:5.10 (159.6) Love of adventure, curiosity, and dread of monotony—these traits inherent in evolving human nature—were not put there just to aggravate and annoy you during your short sojourn on earth, but rather to suggest to you that death is only the beginning of an endless career of adventure, an everlasting life of anticipation, an eternal voyage of discovery.

14:5.11 (160.1) Curiosity—the spirit of investigation, the urge of discovery, the drive of exploration—is a part of the inborn and divine endowment of evolutionary space creatures. These natural impulses were not given you merely to be frustrated and repressed. True, these ambitious urges must frequently be restrained during your short life on earth, disappointment must be often experienced, but they are to be fully realized and gloriously gratified during the long ages to come.


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rich man vs heaven

3. The Discussion About Wealth
163:3.1 (1803.3) By the time Jesus had finished talking with Matadormus, Peter and a number of the apostles had gathered about him, and as the rich young man was departing, Jesus turned around to face the apostles and said: “You see how difficult it is for those who have riches to enter fully into the kingdom of God! Spiritual worship cannot be shared with material devotions; no man can serve two masters. You have a saying that it is ‘easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for the heathen to inherit eternal life.’ And I declare that it is as easy for this camel to go through the needle’s eye as for these self-satisfied rich ones to enter the kingdom of heaven.”

163:3.2 (1803.4) When Peter and the apostles heard these words, they were astonished exceedingly, so much so that Peter said: “Who then, Lord, can be saved? Shall all who have riches be kept out of the kingdom?” And Jesus replied: [blip]“No, Peter, but all who put their trust in riches shall hardly enter into the spiritual life that leads to eternal progress. But even then, much which is impossible to man is not beyond the reach of the Father in heaven; rather should we recognize that with God all things are possible.”[/blip]

163:3.3 (1803.5) As they went off by themselves, Jesus was grieved that Matadormus did not remain with them, for he greatly loved him. And when they had walked down by the lake, they sat there beside the water, and Peter, speaking for the twelve (who were all present by this time), said: “We are troubled by your words to the rich young man. Shall we require those who would follow you to give up all their worldly goods?” And Jesus said: “No, Peter, only those who would become apostles, and who desire to live with me as you do and as one family. But the Father requires that the affections of his children be pure and undivided. Whatever thing or person comes between you and the love of the truths of the kingdom, must be surrendered. If one’s wealth does not invade the precincts of the soul, it is of no consequence in the spiritual life of those who would enter the kingdom.”

163:3.4 (1804.1) And then said Peter, “But, Master, we have left everything to follow you, what then shall we have?” And Jesus spoke to all of the twelve: “Verily, verily, I say to you, there is no man who has left wealth, home, wife, brethren, parents, or children for my sake and for the sake of the kingdom of heaven who shall not receive manifold more in this world, perhaps with some persecutions, and in the world to come eternal life. But many who are first shall be last, while the last shall often be first. The Father deals with his creatures in accordance with their needs and in obedience to his just laws of merciful and loving consideration for the welfare of a universe.


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Greetings Steve!!

I love your enthusiasm and exuberance. They invigorate my own mind and perspective and make me so grateful to be a part of such an adventure of discovery.

Unfortunately, thanks to your praise, my hat no longer fits...hahaha 5 5 5!!! I have no great confidence in my progress upon the pilgrim's path. It is certain I have much further to go however to reach our mutual destination. This life is so brief. But I have absolute confidence in our shared destiny. 45 years with these Papers on this bridge of life has certainly changed my perspective and philosophy of living.

I did send you a private message (PM) your first week here and would provide my email that way if you wish for more personal communication. I don't do much of that as I post frequently on 3 different UB forums...this one has been my favorite for 7+ years now. I am glad to discuss the book but I most enjoy seeing your progress in reading and comprehension and appreciation. Personal reading delivers the most value to you over time I think.

There's a "new message" button up by your login/logout button. You should have one from me.

We should discuss how to love uncertainty and embrace the adventure that is only possible because of the uncertainty and unknowns in life described in 14:5.10.

Namaste Brother! 8)


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Interesting metaphor - the eye of the needle - are you familiar? In a walled city in the middle east and perhaps far east (?), there was a doorway with a short tunnel into a city that a person must stoop low to walk through but a camel had to be unloaded of all baggage and then walked through on its knees. So it is not impossible and its not a sewing needle. But you have to unload your baggage first to get in!! Get it? Love of money is some real baggage. And one must not be too proud to bend, bow, kneel, or crawl!

Money is no vice and poverty is no blessing. The LOVE of money and toys and self indulgence is the danger and vice.

8)


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