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Bradly - ok will check paper 48:1-5-6 whoa 500 eh? ok will be ready for the next one when it comes time ! was hoping i was getting on up there in the lifetimes but we will see of course ! 5 5 5 it is a Grand Adventure tho - whoa - lots of reading between the lines in the UB !
very nice !

and my Grandpa Wright asked me one day if I knew where he was going to go when he died ! i was 18 yrs old
also my Dad told me one day when i was really down when i was 17 years old that "we are all beings of light"
anyway - little tidbits over the years make an impression - later usually - sometimes doesn't sink in when it is happening


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jeez - too bad we couldn't see a BIT more of this on earth with the human beans living on this planet - just a wee bit more !!! 5 5 5

14:2.9 (155.3) Havona is a spiritually perfect and physically stable universe. The control and balanced stability of the central universe appear to be perfect. Everything physical or spiritual is perfectly predictable, but mind phenomena and personality volition are not. We do infer that sin can be reckoned as impossible of occurrence, but we do this on the ground that the native freewill creatures of Havona have never been guilty of transgressing the will of Deity. Through all eternity these supernal beings have been consistently loyal to the Eternals of Days. Neither has sin appeared in any creature who has entered Havona as a pilgrim. There has never been an instance of misconduct by any creature of any group of personalities ever created in, or admitted to, the central Havona universe. So perfect and so divine are the methods and means of selection in the universes of time that never in the records of Havona has an error occurred; no mistakes have ever been made; no ascendant soul has ever been prematurely admitted to the central universe.


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The thing is, Jesus would have never come to this forlorn sphere had we been more like Havona. He chose this world because we are so F***ed up. So, personally, I'm glad the world is the way it is... it makes life interesting!


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So on one hand we need the possibility of evil in order to face the challenges that build character and avail us the opportunity to make choices, but also on the other hand we have the intelligence to shape a society and world that Fosters and Augments the best in us, the path towards the Era of Light and Life.

So for me the reals question is “what am I doing to move in that long distant direction” that is obviously the goal.


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awesome !
161:2.9 (1786.4) 8. He constantly talks about God as an ever-present associate in all that he does. He goes about doing good, for God seems to be in him. He makes the most astounding assertions about himself and his mission on earth, statements which would be absurd if he were not divine. He once declared, “Before Abraham was, I am.” He has definitely claimed divinity; he professes to be in partnership with God. He well-nigh exhausts the possibilities of language in the reiteration of his claims of intimate association with the heavenly Father. He even dares to assert that he and the Father are one. He says that anyone who has seen him has seen the Father. And he says and does all these tremendous things with such childlike naturalness. He alludes to his association with the Father in the same manner that he refers to his association with us. He seems to be so sure about God and speaks of these relations in such a matter-of-fact way. *

161:2.10 (1786.5) 9. In his prayer life he appears to communicate directly with his Father. We have heard few of his prayers, but these few would indicate that he talks with God, as it were, face to face. He seems to know the future as well as the past. He simply could not be all of this and do all of these extraordinary things unless he were something more than human. We know he is human, we are sure of that, but we are almost equally sure that he is also divine. We believe that he is divine. We are convinced that he is the Son of Man and the Son of God.


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J. Barry wrote:
So on one hand we need the possibility of evil in order to face the challenges that build character and avail us the opportunity to make choices, but also on the other hand we have the intelligence to shape a society and world that Fosters and Augments the best in us, the path towards the Era of Light and Life.

So for me the reals question is “what am I doing to move in that long distant direction” that is obviously the goal.


I think the hammer anvil idea reveals much about what we should be doing.
Like trust that the Most High rules.
Also that we were not put here to fix the problems of our fellow humans.
Self mastery is our challenge and destiny.


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velly interesting ! their is some mysteries pertaining to the Creator Sons and the watchers in the UB - cool !

161:3.2 (1787.4) We can understand his unique performances only by accepting the theory that he could, at will, self-limit his divinity consciousness. We are fully cognizant that he frequently withheld from his associates his foreknowledge of events, and that he was aware of the nature of their thinking and planning. We understand that he did not wish his followers to know too fully that he was able to discern their thoughts and to penetrate their plans. He did not desire too far to transcend the concept of the human as it was held in the minds of his apostles and disciples.

161:3.3 (1787.5) We are utterly at a loss to differentiate between his practice of self-limiting his divine consciousness and his technique of concealing his preknowledge and thought discernment from his human associates. We are convinced that he used both of these techniques, but we are not always able, in a given instance, to specify which method he may have employed. We frequently observed him acting with only the human content of consciousness; then would we behold him in conference with the directors of the celestial hosts of the universe and discern the undoubted functioning of the divine mind. And then on almost numberless occasions did we witness the working of this combined personality of man and God as it was activated by the apparent perfect union of the human and the divine minds. This is the limit of our knowledge of such phenomena; we really do not actually know the full truth about this mystery.


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way too much materialistic thinking 2000 years ago - and also NOW - 2000 years later - WAY too much materialistic thinking by most all humans and this planet - not enuff Spiritual thinking at all it seems - some but it seems that the countries that are first world vs 2-3 world countries are not even in the same ball park/planet as the rest of the human beings living on this planet - not good - hoping there will be a shift but... and I AM always an optimist...but then it is free will and for each soul/being to try to be better - we will see - or who knows - maybe it is not for me to see - just to try to be a better person every day and let the Old Man upstairs sort everyone out - as that is how she is going to go anyway 5 5 5 jai yen yen as the thai's say - heart cool cool - relax - no problem - all things will be shown and seen and I know I ain;t perfect so best to let the higher ups sort it all out on the onwards and upwards road ! just hoping some of the wars and killing slow up a bit jeez ... seems the military money has taken over many countries ability to do anything except give more money to the MIComplexes all over - yikes
ok back to reading !


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missed the comments you all posted but seems my comments are related - thanks J barry and alwilliams and no sophist !!!
yes good stuff - we have to better our own selves and our own spheres we can help - can't fix all the problems - that is for the upstairs people to worry about - but I do worry about too much and too many - friends - family here - even the people I don;t know and see every day or not family people - the guy in the neighborhood sitting across from my house i give money to buy some food - he is not homeless - has a room around here somewhere - just happens to hang out always when I get home 5 5 5 dang and he has hekped wash the truck or do odd jobs - anyway - like the guy that you just KNOW is part of my pan to see if I will help him out when sitting across the street - do i ask him if he is ok or does he come over and ask me for some small money - I don;t mind giving to him - but somedays I have to take a deep breath and just say cool - as long as the wife doesn't see me giving him 2-3 bucks for food 5 5 5

yes thailand does make my life way too interesting - 5 5 5 always someone that needs help here in my day to day life - family is poor but not that poor - and like this guy Fon - rain that hangs out across the street - always someone needing some small money - i don;t have any big money to loan anyway like 100 bucks is my max - some gets paid back - some doesn't - 150 bucks to good nephew I thought was no prob as he paid back before - but last time - no pay and back to his province - not too far away but won;t see that paid back - oh well
yes a good test of Love living here I must say over the years - and testing me so yah - have to live it and do it !


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yes getting very good !

5. Sermon on the Light of the World
162:5.1 (1794.4) On the evening of the next to the last day of the feast, when the scene was brilliantly illuminated by the lights of the candelabras and the torches, Jesus stood up in the midst of the assembled throng and said:

162:5.2 (1795.1) “I am the light of the world. He who follows me shall not walk in darkness but shall have the light of life. Presuming to place me on trial and assuming to sit as my judges, you declare that, if I bear witness of myself, my witness cannot be true. But never can the creature sit in judgment on the Creator. Even if I do bear witness about myself, my witness is everlastingly true, for I know whence I came, who I am, and whither I go. You who would kill the Son of Man know not whence I came, who I am, or whither I go. You only judge by the appearances of the flesh; you do not perceive the realities of the spirit. I judge no man, not even my archenemy. But if I should choose to judge, my judgment would be true and righteous, for I would judge not alone but in association with my Father, who sent me into the world, and who is the source of all true judgment. You even allow that the witness of two reliable persons may be accepted—well, then, I bear witness of these truths; so also does my Father in heaven. And when I told you this yesterday, in your darkness you asked me, ‘Where is your Father?’ Truly, you know neither me nor my Father, for if you had known me, you would also have known the Father. *

162:5.3 (1795.2) “I have already told you that I am going away, and that you will seek me and not find me, for where I am going you cannot come. You who would reject this light are from beneath; I am from above. You who prefer to sit in darkness are of this world; I am not of this world, and I live in the eternal light of the Father of lights. You all have had abundant opportunity to learn who I am, but you shall have still other evidence confirming the identity of the Son of Man. I am the light of life, and every one who deliberately and with understanding rejects this saving light shall die in his sins. Much I have to tell you, but you are unable to receive my words. However, he who sent me is true and faithful; my Father loves even his erring children. And all that my Father has spoken I also proclaim to the world.

162:5.4 (1795.3) “When the Son of Man is lifted up, then shall you all know that I am he, and that I have done nothing of myself but only as the Father has taught me. I speak these words to you and to your children. And he who sent me is even now with me; he has not left me alone, for I do always that which is pleasing in his sight.”

162:5.5 (1795.4) As Jesus thus taught the pilgrims in the temple courts, many believed. And no man dared to lay hands upon him.


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even more good stuff !

162:7.3 (1796.5) “I know that you are Abraham’s seed, yet your leaders seek to kill me because my word has not been allowed to have its transforming influence in their hearts. Their souls are sealed by prejudice and blinded by the pride of revenge. I declare to you the truth which the eternal Father shows me, while these deluded teachers seek to do the things which they have learned only from their temporal fathers. And when you reply that Abraham is your father, then do I tell you that, if you were the children of Abraham, you would do the works of Abraham. Some of you believe my teaching, but others seek to destroy me because I have told you the truth which I received from God. But Abraham did not so treat the truth of God. I perceive that some among you are determined to do the works of the evil one. If God were your Father, you would know me and love the truth which I reveal. Will you not see that I come forth from the Father, that I am sent by God, that I am not doing this work of myself? Why do you not understand my words? Is it because you have chosen to become the children of evil? If you are the children of darkness, you will hardly walk in the light of the truth which I reveal. The children of evil follow only in the ways of their father, who was a deceiver and stood not for the truth because there came to be no truth in him. But now comes the Son of Man speaking and living the truth, and many of you refuse to believe.

162:7.4 (1797.1) “Which of you convicts me of sin? If I, then, proclaim and live the truth shown me by the Father, why do you not believe? He who is of God hears gladly the words of God; for this cause many of you hear not my words, because you are not of God. Your teachers have even presumed to say that I do my works by the power of the prince of devils. One near by has just said that I have a devil, that I am a child of the devil. But all of you who deal honestly with your own souls know full well that I am not a devil. You know that I honor the Father even while you would dishonor me. I seek not my own glory, only the glory of my Paradise Father. And I do not judge you, for there is one who judges for me.

162:7.5 (1797.2) “Verily, verily, I say to you who believe the gospel that, if a man will keep this word of truth alive in his heart, he shall never taste death. And now just at my side a scribe says this statement proves that I have a devil, seeing that Abraham is dead, also the prophets. And he asks: ‘Are you so much greater than Abraham and the prophets that you dare to stand here and say that whoso keeps your word shall not taste death? Who do you claim to be that you dare to utter such blasphemies?’ And I say to all such that, if I glorify myself, my glory is as nothing. But it is the Father who shall glorify me, even the same Father whom you call God. But you have failed to know this your God and my Father, and I have come to bring you together; to show you how to become truly the sons of God. Though you know not the Father, I truly know him. Even Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and by faith he saw it and was glad.”

162:7.6 (1797.3) When the unbelieving Jews and the agents of the Sanhedrin who had gathered about by this time heard these words, they raised a tumult, shouting: “You are not fifty years of age, and yet you talk about seeing Abraham; you are a child of the devil!” Jesus was unable to continue the discourse. He only said as he departed, “Verily, verily, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.” Many of the unbelievers rushed forth for stones to cast at him, and the agents of the Sanhedrin sought to place him under arrest, but the Master quickly made his way through the temple corridors and escaped to a secret meeting place near Bethany where Martha, Mary, and Lazarus awaited him.


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no sophist wrote:
J. Barry wrote:
So on one hand we need the possibility of evil in order to face the challenges that build character and avail us the opportunity to make choices, but also on the other hand we have the intelligence to shape a society and world that Fosters and Augments the best in us, the path towards the Era of Light and Life.

So for me the reals question is “what am I doing to move in that long distant direction” that is obviously the goal.


I think the hammer anvil idea reveals much about what we should be doing.
Like trust that the Most High rules.
Also that we were not put here to fix the problems of our fellow humans.
Self mastery is our challenge and destiny.


In the hope of showing how both of these concepts serve each other, I find it very interesting that the best way to "shape a society" personally while fulfilling self mastery as "our challenge and destiny" is to realize and integrate the functionality of love of and service to others! How do we grow personally? By love of others. How do we harvest the fruits of the Spirit? By love of and service to others. How do we shape a society? Exactly the same way!!!

I think there are two ways to approach this personal mission of religious experience and personal growth while also serving our fellows. One is strictly the personal as we walk by method....it is undirected and generalized and personalized in our reflexive responses to all the people and situations of every day and the intersections of relationship and choice of every day. The second is to identify those social, community, national, or global issues that resonate within us that cause great empathy and an eagerness to help solve by donating our time, talents, skills, and money - be they disaster relief, hunger, disease, education, orphans, refugees, peace, human rights, equal opportunity, suffrage, pollution, sustainable agriculture, organic foods and pharma, mental health, addiction, democratic reforms, or any of the many progressive social reforms which are obviously needed to move our world toward Light and Life!!

I believe it very immature and impatient for us or any believers to be political ranters and ravers and vocalize and perpetuate dissatisfaction and distrust of our planetary rulers (the Divine ones that is) and to focus on blame and political solutions for what we should know are problems with only spiritual solutions. The world will change only so much as the people on the world change, growing less barbaric and primitive by personal religious experience and spiritization. The world spiritualizes as its population spiritizes. We help the world most by our own transformation in the Spirit and second by the fruits of the Spirit we lovingly share in service to others. God will direct that love and service to the greatest need and effect during our short sojourn here.

I agree we are not here to "fix the problems of our fellow humans" and some of us are way too fixated on solving secular problems by secular solutions. But we are here to serve our fellow humans and by our service we are indeed shaping society, usually in ways we cannot see or measure, but which do help the Most Highs to civilize our world and progress toward Light and Life.

Planetary evolution is too slow, we are taught, for any single generation or life to appreciate or even witness. We must have a time unit perspective of our far distant past and far distant future to appreciate the progress our world has made in a million years and 2000 years and 300 years and 100 years and to see the acceleration of progress we are in the midst of today and to see beyond only the failures and challenges and evil/errors of time to truly witness the glorious transformations already achieved by the Most Highs. Who are we to complain and whine and be so disappointed and so demanding and so impatient? Our goal should be to appreciate the real progress we enjoy and to help others overcome suffering and obstacles by simply lending a friendly smile and hand forward.

Lots of related text to consider....I'll research and post some. Impatience is a mind poison. So is disappointment. Must get over it to move forward. Otherwise we are only part of the problem and cannot be part of the solution.

118:1.3 (1295.3) There is a direct relationship between maturity and the unit of time consciousness in any given intellect. The time unit may be a day, a year, or a longer period, but inevitably it is the criterion by which the conscious self evaluates the circumstances of life, and by which the conceiving intellect measures and evaluates the facts of temporal existence.

118:1.4 (1295.4) Experience, wisdom, and judgment are the concomitants of the lengthening of the time unit in mortal experience. As the human mind reckons backward into the past, it is evaluating past experience for the purpose of bringing it to bear on a present situation. As mind reaches out into the future, it is attempting to evaluate the future significance of possible action. And having thus reckoned with both experience and wisdom, the human will exercises judgment-decision in the present, and the plan of action thus born of the past and the future becomes existent.

118:1.5 (1295.5) In the maturity of the developing self, the past and future are brought together to illuminate the true meaning of the present. As the self matures, it reaches further and further back into the past for experience, while its wisdom forecasts seek to penetrate deeper and deeper into the unknown future. And as the conceiving self extends this reach ever further into both past and future, so does judgment become less and less dependent on the momentary present. In this way does decision-action begin to escape from the fetters of the moving present, while it begins to take on the aspects of past-future significance.

48:7.20 (557.4) 18. Impatience is a spirit poison; anger is like a stone hurled into a hornet’s nest.

48:7.21 (557.5) 19. Anxiety must be abandoned. The disappointments hardest to bear are those which never come.

195:5.12 (2076.3) As you view the world, remember that the black patches of evil which you see are shown against a white background of ultimate good. You do not view merely white patches of good which show up miserably against a black background of evil.

195:5.13 (2076.4) When there is so much good truth to publish and proclaim, why should men dwell so much upon the evil in the world just because it appears to be a fact? The beauties of the spiritual values of truth are more pleasurable and uplifting than is the phenomenon of evil.

8)


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I agree we must first focus on healing our selves, and find our personal relationship with God, but once having achieved such, we are asked “ for those that much is given, much is expected” as a natural response to experiencing Gods love we are the more willing to love others abundently .


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And I agree that we will heal and grow personally most quickly and certainly by our forgiveness and love of others in service to the needs of others, individual others and all others.

It's an interesting paradox, a real chicken and egg conundrum, but we grow the fruit of the Spirit by first giving love to others in response to the Spirit.

The self which grows the most is the self forgetting self who is a conduit of loving service.

The challenge then though to such a faithful child of God is to bring and increase the wisdom in our self forgetting service. There can be a huge gap between our intentions and our results. Do we truly see the circumstances and situations and people we serve clearly? Do we perceive and discern accurately? Are we wise? Or are we impetuous, shallow, ignorant, prejudice, blind, impatient, immature, and not truly helping anything at all?

We are taught to withhold false sympathy...feeling sorry for those who suffer from their own repetitive choices of error and sin...those who refuse responsibility for their own decisions and results. Embracing the motivation of love is but the first step in perfecting....the quality of our choices based on love is the real challenge for progress in our personal experiential wisdom...the quest of the ages to come...which begins here and now.


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fanofVan wrote:
we grow the fruit of the Spirit by first giving love to others in response to the Spirit.


How does that work exactly?


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