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An open forum for general discussions of a spiritual nature where guests and readers entertain the teachings of The Urantia Book.
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Comment from another thread

Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:50 am +0000

In the thread titled "Superchemical Storage Battery" something I had posted was clarified by Malaku but since my response isn't relative to the topic of the thread I thought I would start a new one to explore the actuality of the ideas expressed.

Malaku said.

“there's nothing hypothetical about metaphysics...the world of fact and the world of value have common causation and the experience of Unity is very real. it doesn't go by unnoticed...it's a landmark experience.

well unless you see "the world of fact and the world of value have common causation" as a mere hypothesis then yeah metaphysics is hypothetical...and when that hypothesis forms the focus of the philosophy skepticism and sophistry enters because it lacks the balancing cohesiveness and stabilization of scientific fact and spiritual experience."


Shouldn’t we must keep in mind this truth from Paper 103.

103:6.2 When man approaches the study and examination of his universe from the outside, he brings into being the various physical sciences; when he approaches the research of himself and the universe from the inside, he gives origin to theology and metaphysics. The later art of philosophy develops in an effort to harmonize the many discrepancies which are destined at first to appear between the findings and teachings of these two diametrically opposite avenues of approaching the universe of things and beings.

True unity though conceptual in the human mind, is actual and real only as a personal experience. This bridge cannot be crossed except by the experience of realizing revelation, the discovery of God as real in personal experience. The mind identifies, the will decides, the spirit of God reality-izes (111:3.6 Mind knows quantity, reality, meanings. But quality—values—is felt. That which feels is the mutual creation of mind, which knows, and the associated spirit, which reality-izes.) via an experience of feeling which is identifiable by the personality as “not of my being”, as in “I did not generate this with my willpower”, though I allowed it to manifest by that same will. The identification of this presence and the realization that it is from beyond “me” is what generates the astounding feeling of which the Urantia Book speaks. (99:5.9 Primitive man made little effort to put his religious convictions into words. His religion was danced out rather than thought out. Modern men have thought out many creeds and created many tests of religious faith. Future religionists must live out their religion, dedicate themselves to the wholehearted service of the brotherhood of man. It is high time that man had a religious experience so personal and so sublime that it could be realized and expressed only by "feelings that lie too deep for words.") When this happens, the whole basic format upon which the mind has formulated its concepts of reality is permanently altered by this realization. But this is not a onetime event, it is only the beginning of an eternal discovery process. At this stage of the game all we can do is will to do the will of God, apply our faith and submit to the experience of becoming; of transferring our identity to our soul’s experience of actualization, i.e., will to become the will of God.

When we do that, we realize that metaphysics is purely hypothetical; that is it is mind created by a human person. It is not real, as in God sourced. Put another way, it is not discovered, it is developed by us, in our minds. It is our attempt to fill the void the Urantia Book reveals as a reality known as Morontia. It is unreal because it is always theoretical, i.e., unrealizable. It may be seen as a necessary part of the construction of our scaffolding by which we attempt the traversing of the gap between matter and spirit in concept; between fact and value in realization, but it is scaffolding none-the-less and as such it will be discarded for real experience in spirit perception enabled by our faith alone. Perception of fact, the realization of material reality, is a natural function of the human mind’s experience. Perception of value, the realization of spiritual reality, is guided by our Thought Adjusters and all additional spiritual sources but is only enabled to be realized by us through an act of our willpower called faith. As you said of such, it is a landmark experience, see 99:5.9 above. Even though, while such a feeling may be quite vague to us here on Urantia, we are informed that it will be substantiated by our reawakened consciousness as Morontia creatures as we open to that sense of reality which we will finally realize actual consciousness of value. Finally at some point, we will fuse with our Thought Adjusters and become the living reality of value (true spirits).

Diametrically opposed is what we must learn to accept. The human perspective and consciousness versus the spirit perspective and consciousness. The human and the adjuster becoming one being. The adjuster adopts our personal reality, we realize and adopt his value. We are challenged to perceive the difference between that which has value and that which is value. The Urantia Book has value, the indwelling spirit, the Thought Adjuster is value.

Now what do you call this answer? Metaphysics? philosophy? I call it my current view of reality as a result of faith and commitment to know God.


Re: Comment from another thread

Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:18 am +0000

well the mind isn't purely hypothetical nor man sourced and both spiritual experience and the laws of science are experienced and filtered thru the mind the same as metaphysics is. nothing passes thru the mind purely, but the spiritual experience and the laws of science are both very real as is the fact of their common causation and potential experiential unity.

regarding the source of mind:

Mind is the functional endowment of the Infinite Spirit, therefore infinite in potential
and universal in bestowal. The primal thought of the Universal Father eternalizes in dual expression: the Isle of Paradise and his Deity
equal, the spiritual and Eternal Son. Such duality of eternal reality renders the mind
God, the Infinite Spirit, inevitable. Mind is the indispensable channel of communication
between spiritual and material realities. The material evolutionary creature can conceive
and comprehend the indwelling spirit only by the ministry of mind.
3 This infinite and universal mind is ministered in the universes of time and space as the
cosmic mind; and though extending from the primitive ministry of the adjutant spirits
up to the magnificent mind of the chief executive of a universe, even this cosmic mind is
adequately unified in the supervision of the Seven Master Spirits, who are in turn co-ordinated with the Supreme Mind of time and
space and perfectly correlated with the all embracing mind of the Infinite Spirit.

if you read on you will also find that the source of the three-fold viewpoint isn't the mind as one would expect, it's spirit

i think you also need to recognized that revelation supplements rather than replaces metaphysics and there are plenty more areas where unaided metaphysics is sufficiently valuable and that the philosophy presented in the papers is a metaphysical one.

the fact that we will continue to study metaphysics in the morontia world would indicate that its not all mere scaffolding to be torn down, there may be concepts of supreme and lasting value transferred to our soul...i can't say

Re: Comment from another thread

Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:35 pm +0000


47:5.3 Mansonia the third is a world of great personal and social achievement for all who have not made the equivalent of these circles of culture prior to release from the flesh on the mortal nativity worlds. On this sphere more positive educational work is begun. The training of the first two mansion worlds is mostly of a deficiency nature—negative—in that it has to do with supplementing the experience of the life in the flesh. On this third mansion world the survivors really begin their progressive morontia culture. The chief purpose of this training is to enhance the understanding of the correlation of morontia mota and mortal logic, the co-ordination of morontia mota and human philosophy. Surviving mortals now gain practical insight into true metaphysics (revelation). This is the real introduction to the intelligent comprehension of cosmic meanings and universe interrelationships. The culture of the third mansion world partakes of the nature of the postbestowal Son age of a normal inhabited planet.

Of the 26 uses of the term metaphysics or a derivative of it in the Urantia Book the term “true metaphysics” is only used one time and it is used as an explanation of the activity we experience on Mansonia Number 3 or the culture of a normal postbestowal world. So, it is appropriate we should be dealing with this but also it is here at this juncture that we should be stepping beyond metaphysics and beginning to perceive real spirit.

But because this transition from materialistic thinking to spiritual perceiving is determined by one’s own propensity to remain materially based, it is personal. It is only discoverable by a single person, a being who is endowed with a personality, and because it is, it must be individual and separate. It can never be perceptually shared until it is transformed by spirit and realized as spiritual reality. I believe it is this distinction that is the offering we are missing by our inability to perceive Mota, but that is only a conjecture. Maybe that concept is metaphysical, I don’t know for sure.

But the solvable part of this issue isn’t a matter of mere thought clarity or found in additional learning, it is discovered in our willingness to continuously perceive reality beyond our comfort zone. The following quotation reveals this potential in more detail.

Paper 118:4.1 “Many of the theologic difficulties and the metaphysical dilemmas of mortal man are due to man's mislocation of Deity personality and consequent assignment of infinite and absolute attributes to subordinate Divinity and to evolutionary Deity. You must not forget that, while there is indeed a true First Cause, there are also a host of co-ordinate and subordinate causes, both associate and secondary causes.”

We are so very limited in our comprehension of the true reality of these issues but so hungry for certainty that we allow ourselves to overstate our surety when we are not. We all do that.

Metaphysical which actually means “after-physical” might be better termed pre-spiritual because it allows to focus on the goal more correctly rather than what we are leaving behind.

The great issue with metaphysics as explained over and over in the 26 times it is used in the book is this short-sightedness of it. The revelators always seek a positive use of our practices but the can only support metaphysics as far as they can. Once we realize spirit and are able to focus on true destinies, we are beyond such scaffolds.

Re: Comment from another thread

Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:43 pm +0000

i'm aware that the papers are concerned mainly with correcting metaphysics but it and revelations gap-filling value is shown here:

Metaphysics but more certainly revelation, affords a common meeting ground for the discoveries of both science and religion and makes possible the human attempt logically to correlate these separate but interdependent domains of thought into a well-balanced philosophy of scientific stability and religious certainty.

besides correcting errors and filling in gaps, revelation also affirms and confirms a lot of our metaphysics

and it will be needed for a long long time:

103:7.4 The union of the scientific attitude and the religious insight by the mediation of experiential philosophy is part of man's long Paradise-ascension experience. The approximations of mathematics and the certainties of insight will always require the harmonizing function of mind logic on all levels of experience short of the maximum attainment of the Supreme.

philosophy is also the favorite pastime of a world settled in light and life, if i recall correctly.

albeit, as you nearly said before, eventually we will grow beyond the need for mota proofs and can realize and rely on purely spiritual proofs.

going back to your first post again:

At this stage of the game all we can do is will to do the will of God, apply our faith and submit to the experience of becoming; of transferring our identity to our soul’s experience of actualization, i.e., will to become the will of God.

not that that isn't true, but there's more we can do:

Habits which favor religious growth embrace cultivated sensitivity to divine values, recognition of religious living in others, reflective meditation on cosmic meanings, worshipful problem solving, sharing one’s spiritual life with one’s fellows, avoidance of selfishness, refusal to presume on divine mercy, living as in the presence of God. The factors of religious growth may be intentional, but the growth itself is unvaryingly unconscious.

Re: Comment from another thread

Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:21 am +0000

The great issue with metaphysics as explained over and over in the 26 times it is used in the book is this short-sightedness of it.

i'd attempt to clarify that by saying the big issue with metaphysics is that it's key postulate is that matter and mind are made of the same stuff, and that only becomes true in the next life.

Re: Comment from another thread

Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:19 am +0000

Now that is really exciting to think about; the eternal quest being the endless pursuit of infinite value, and all.

Re: Comment from another thread

Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:33 am +0000

i think so too :smile:

Re: Comment from another thread

Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:21 am +0000

some food for thought from the paper on "ministering spirits"

38:9.9 (425.1) The gap between the material and spiritual worlds is perfectly bridged by the serial association of mortal man, secondary midwayer, primary midwayer, morontia cherubim, mid-phase cherubim, and seraphim. In the personal experience of an individual mortal these diverse levels are undoubtedly more or less unified and made personally meaningful by the unobserved and mysterious operations of the divine Thought Adjuster.

Re: Comment from another thread

Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:42 pm +0000

8:5.4 There are many spiritual influences, and they are all as one. Even the work of the Thought Adjusters, though independent of all other influences, unvaryingly coincides with the spirit ministry of the combined influences of the Infinite Spirit and a local universe Mother Spirit. As these spiritual presences operate in the lives of Urantians, they cannot be segregated. In your minds and upon your souls they function as one spirit, notwithstanding their diverse origins. And as this united spiritual ministration is experienced, it becomes to you the influence of the Supreme, “who is ever able to keep you from failing and to present you blameless before your Father on high.”

Not that we could tell the difference anyway.
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