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 Post subject: Re: Metaphysics
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Makalu wrote:
we can progress beyond the metaphysical attempts at developing a balanced two-dimensional philosophy and develop the unified, well-balanced 3-d religious philosophy presented in the papers...right now.


Of course that depends on our Circle Progress and experiential wisdom. The presentation in the Papers is the additive of both revealed truths and facts by Epochal Revelation to enhance the more objective and mature perspective of universe reality...materially, spiritually, and especially with the addition of the morontial realities in between...reducing mortal confusions and eliminating mortal errors of perception, assumption, and conclusion.

8) Bradly


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Makalu yes we must indeed dredge this "swamp of Metaphysical speculation", to eliminate speculative error and such. It does seem like the "Assumption of Enoch", if on some level we accept it as actual individual human experience, and such, are acceptible dynamics in which one may begin analytical deduction for the purposes of logic in the field of the Metaphysical. Given the prerequisite assumption about such human individual, and therein is where you will be pegged: as a religionist who belief Enoch, as a councilman of the four and twenty, rather than a prophet, one of the authors of the Bible (Piby). But woe for the scientific community cannot accept that premise and you are pegged as a sectarian. The metaphysical truths are real, forged upon following God's will perhaps experiencially owing to Revelation. They pertain to "Sublime Truth", "Sublime Reality" and cannot be explained using the best existential psychoanalytical or psychiatric methods. Those who seek to express the actual dynamic of metaphysics are relegated to the instance-interpretation of poetry, and it is always surprising to see those who actually express "Sublime Reality" or the actual dynamic of metaphysics, are like those who have productive vocations: engineer and carpenter and mason. "Intution" and the living forces conduce within the individual, and provide the potential for accuracy of synopsis, yet this amounts to "the instincts of personality", "what God would do inside you, if/when you fully consent and do," and are further obscured from any scientific or publically accepted interpolation. But I hold that such synopsis, if guided by the Holy Spirit, can expose metaphysics to your personality, through "transductionary relationship with the Supreme Being", meaning that one man's work belongs to the Supreme Being, especially in the inner work and intention of the individual, and that such work may continue if the Supreme Being enlightens another human individual to continue the same quest, to continue the progress that a former has left unto the universe/world.

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the mind can't achieve a unified philosophy until it's "firmly aware of material things, intellectual meanings, and spiritual values", but it's acceptance and adoption only require acceptance and adoption and if the validity and vitality of the philosophy isn't already apparent it will be in time as it's lived out and fruits and the progress is recognized in hindsight.

really who cares about metaphysics when we know we are incapable of true metaphysics in this life?


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We all care...we can't not care....we are designed, built and wired to care. Part of our mind endowment. The perceived universe requires perspective and that requires facts...or fictions and beliefs when facts are unavailable. Who can function without how and why?

Great question to consider however.

As has been discussed elsewhere already, there is no value without meaning....meaning comes prior to discovery and recognition of value(s). Without facts, no meaning. Metaphysics is the search for meaning. It is the essence of the scientific method. It is what seperates us from the animals.


It would be helpful to consider the function of mota related to truth and the understanding of reality. Does mota aid in the learing of facts too?


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metaphysics is a philosophy and not a competent one...being a philosophy it has nothing to do with the scientific method...good luck. smh


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fanofVan wrote:
We all care...we can't not care....we are designed, built and wired to care. Part of our mind endowment. The perceived universe requires perspective and that requires facts...or fictions and beliefs when facts are unavailable. Who can
Makalu wrote:
metaphysics is a philosophy and not a competent one...being a philosophy it has nothing to do with the scientific method...good luck. smh


Not true...according to the text. Metaphysics is not philosophy. Not at all. And philosophy that leans too heavily on metaphysics as a source of context and perspective fails. Try again and good luck yourself.

You claimed earlier that metaphysics and revelation were the same too. Now it's the same as philosophy? Metaphysics is not revelation or philosophy either one. Are you not reading the quotes provided? Or just not particularly interested? Hmmmmm....

The scientific method is speculation (meta-physics) combined with evidence or the pursuit of evidence to explain and understand that which is perceived, observed, or supposed. Metaphysics is speculation prior to evidentiary confirmation, that which occurs beyond and prior to empirical proofs. Science is that which is proven factual by this method.

Metaphysics is certainly related to science and the methodology of science which begins with wonder, imagination, observation, reason, conjecture, and speculation. The attempt to explain and understand what science does not (beyond/after physics or science). The very word meta-physics is based in science and material realities.

It's going to be difficult to join in the discussion about metaphysics for those here who cannot discern the definition of the term. The value of metaphysics certainly cannot be appreciated without first understanding its meaning and acknowledging its very important purpose.

A pity considering all the interesting issues related to the mortal experience- both material and spiritual - that are rooted in this fundamental and very functional human evolutionary tool of progressive transformation for the individual and the world...progress that would be impossible without this naturally inherent tool of knowledge.

Bradly :idea: :!: 8)


Last edited by fanofVan on Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:48 pm +0000, edited 3 times in total.

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metaphysics is an attempt to unite matter and spirit...that's an entirely philosophic exercise and the failed human substitute for the philosophy affirmed by revelation.


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For those who wish to know the difference between philosophy, revelation, and metaphysics - please read the first 10 quotes in the link provided in my first post and study Paper 103, Section 6.

Metaphysics is comprised of our beliefs and concepts about cosmology used to construct our picture of reality. It is an invention of fictions and presumptions by and for primitive minds lacking scientific facts and explanations for cosmological reality. It is a precursor to philosophy perhaps in its result of beliefs about reality but as the UB clearly illustrates and states....metaphysics and philosophy are quite distinct disciplines. And neither of those is essentially the "same as revelation ".

It is not helpful to declare red is blue or the same as yellow - they are all colors...but not the same colors. As squares, circles, and triangles are all shapes...but not the same shapes. Is oxygen water? Is hydrogen? Neither of those is water but when combined just right, the two results in a third with its own attributes.

Metaphysics, revelation, and philosophy are not the same either and each offers important functions with the first being the least in value for the more progressive and more enlightened mortals as fictional suppositions and beliefs are replaced by fact and truth based reality perspectives and unifying experience, maturity, and wisdom based on revelation and resulting in a unifying philosophy whereby material and spiritual realities become harmonized and integrated in a personal experience and expression.

The UB teaches that as a world reaches Light and Life, there is but one philosophy shared by all, delivered by sufficient epochal revelation and cosmological facts of universe reality combined with experiential wisdom and a more mature religious experience. When the soul of mortals becomes the identifying morontia mind of mortals then does mota attend mortals I wonder?

The Papers teach that mortals are wired for certain predilections and results by inherent impulses, urges, yearns, hungers, and thirsts that can only be satisfied by certain and particular responses which we must willingly choose and must do so over and over and over again. By these responsive choices we attach our personal branch to the Divine Vine and bring forth the fruits of the Spirit.

The role of metaphysics in this process is most interesting. How does a scaffolding of fictional beliefs contribute to the growth and progress of a faith and truth based religious experience whereby a soul can achieve eternity status despite false beliefs based on a fictional cosmology?

Those of us here and those who embrace the FER (fifth epochal revelation) may now abandon our prior fictional constructs of universe reality as this gift is designed and delivered to reduce the confusions and eliminate the errors of primitive mortal metaphysics to promote a more accurate and mature philosophy of living.

Indeed does God work in mysterious ways!!

Bradly 8)


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Quote:
Metaphysics is comprised of our beliefs and concepts about cosmology used to construct our picture of reality.


that'd be a philosophy

Quote:
It is an invention of fictions and presumptions by and for primitive minds lacking scientific facts and explanations for cosmological reality.


oh really? then why will it be taught on the third mansion world?

Quote:
It is a precursor to philosophy perhaps in its result of beliefs about reality but as the UB clearly illustrates and states....metaphysics and philosophy are quite distinct disciplines. And neither of those is essentially the "same as revelation ".


try to comprehend it again, and everything else the papers have to say on the topic not just the first 10 snippets in your search:

Quote:
9. THE ESSENCE OF RELIGION

1 Theology deals with the intellectual content of religion, metaphysics (revelation) with the philosophic aspects. Religious experience
is the spiritual content of religion


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If "true" metaphysics is taught by mota on the mansion worlds, then what is mortal and material metaphysics if not false beliefs and fictional explanations of reality?


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Metaphysics, but more certainly revelation, affords a common meeting ground for the discoveries of both science and religion and makes possible the human attempt logically to correlate these separate but interdependent domains of thought into a well-balanced philosophy of scientific stability and religious certainty.


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Yes...the quote (103:7.9) says metaphysics is different than revelation and makes philosophy possible (so also...different). First posted and highlighted on page 1 of this thread. Hmmm.....

Thanks for the assist! :wink: :idea: :!: 8)


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the difference is one of quality, the function is the same as has been said here before. neither metaphysics nor revelation "makes philosophy possible"...that's an innate attribute of mind. mind can and does build philosophies on a variety of platforms, not always the triune one of revelation.


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So if you keep comparing metaphysics to revelation, let me distinguish metaphysics as being that which applies to the power-status of the individual, both the central universe and the human tabernacle. Metaphysics as the unification of matter & spirit? I would rather describe this as the invasion of spirit into sentient minds, and its sociological effects. This as a science. Again there is practically 0 information which is agreeably established fact.

The human personality has the power to open new/close old channels/avenues of universe potentiality, through his choices. We know at least this much deterministic element. But how does spiritual force become activate within the mind of the material mortal sentient individual of post-primitive status? It is based on the human will ability to seek spiritual ramification as the ends of his actions. So you may begin to see "personality" as the "operant/operand of will for the human individual", which must be coordinated (according to all future occurence and living formats that you will have ever performed?) and experiencially unified, supposedly, according to UB (crude paraphrase).



Revelation, is that which man accepts as true from his experiences, the evaluation of truth. Well you can say that Revelation is ordained, but I will choose to refer to what a person chooses to call revelation, which can be inaccurate in its confirmation and interpretation of the actual spiritual events, "as told to one by one's TA".

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Metaphysics and personal revelation are very different from one another. But errors of understanding are certainly something they share. I disagree with the claim or idea that personal revelation is "that which man accepts as true from his experiences".

The TA is the source of personal revelations, not experience. Rather, it is that given by the Spirit and discerned and responded to. It is our experience, maturity, progress, and wisdom which determines the truth content actually utilized by the mortal.

As I understand it, the point and purpose of personal revelation is the spirtization of mortal mind...not cosmological education whereas the point and subject of metaphysics is of universe cosmology. The TA does not educate nor impart fact but is endlessly working to effect our religious experience and spiritual transformation with truth. The facts of universe reality comes by way of science and epochal revelation.

Metaphysics invents that reality perspective which science and personal revelation fails factually and adequately to provide to us in our mortal experience. We must remember that science and revelation both seek God and both will find God and that material realities and spiritual realities only appear to be divergent or separate.

Philosophy seeks to unite these two realities in our own perspective as they are united in reality. Philosophy that leans too heavily or depends too much on the speculations and beliefs and inventions of metaphysics fails to provide true perspective or a functional philosophy for living.

Epochal Revelation corrects the failings of both metaphysics and personal revelation regarding both fact and truth. As I understand it.


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