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 Post subject: Re: Metaphysics
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Bradly - just a note here - looked up Metaphysics and yes too much science and philosophy really - my "uneducated" belief was more about the Spirit of Christ in "metaphysics" of the holy spirit or in the UB the Infinite Spirit being the full power of Mind over matter and the ability of the Infinite Holy Spirit to overcome matter with the good and pure thoughts of Spirit of this mortal body - anyway - I can't maybe put too many words together and I haven't read all the UB yet to pick out papers - but from what I HAVE read so far - it it is very good on the power of the Spirit - maybe a little heavy in spots on the "regulations" of all in the above life but lots of good papers on the Infinite Spirit or Holy Spirit which to me is more the metaphysical aspect - Perfect Mind over matter or in UB with the thought adjuster helping the soul to get more spiritual - more of the Christ Mind that helps us walk in a more spiritual way and thinking more spiritual - yes it seems that hard that we can get over the physical body and more Christ/Spirit like but that is what I am getting from the UB - lots of passages all over it on this - just I don;t know them yet 5 5 5 - just the fact the higher being of each mortal can overcome the material mortal body with given some thought and meditation like JC had done - God/son and all is taking ti way beyond the Bible verses I am reading
anyway - just my 2 cents on this for now
onwards and upwards in the pure Spirit and thought ! something like that anyway - my words are not good enough to get my thoughts across maybe
steve


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Papers 102 and 103 introduce the meaning and value of metaphysics in the mortal mind. Both material/mortal science and material/mortal religion are founded upon the assumptions and speculations in the mind of mortals. Only truth displaces metaphysics. So truly it is the work of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, and the Thought Adjusters that is both metaphysical to us initially but also the solution/resolution of much that is metaphysical. Epochal Revelation is also periodically provided to reduce confusions and eliminate the errors of mortal perception and metaphysical falsehoods and misunderstanding.

The trifold nature of reality and the dual nature of mortal life requires our minds to unify and integrate and harmonize these divergent realities and also to teach mind to dominate the material and allow the Spirit to dominate mind...to transfer the seat of our very identity from material to spiritual. This takes time. Uncertainty , confusions, and errors are sure to attend us as we gain experience, maturity, and wisdom over time.


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Bradly - thanks very much and I agree - will read papers 99-103 now asap - the Truth and Holy Spirit I can relate to - the UB Thought Adjuster is of course new for new - but yes am working on transferring from material to spiritual thought every day - and I know it is not me per say but the Spirit of Life-Truth - the Holy Spirit - with reading the UB and this Thought Adjuster bit really added the missing link so to speak - I always knew I had a soul and was connected to the Holy Spirit/Christ/Truth - but the UB is making it a lot more personal it seems with what I am reading - and it is all about the power of the Spirit of the Mind/Soul/Spirit over mortal science/religion and dogma and all the baggage we bring to the table - but yes am glad to hear your points and know you are putting it out there very well
so much to explore in the UB !!! whoa

steve


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Greetings Steve! Glad you too are finding so much practical information and instruction to apply to your thinking and doing in the UB. It connected so many concepts and explained so much to me that felt so right. The UB teaches we have a "reality-response" and are given both truth confirmation and truth assurance - see 16:6.4. And also that as we grow in the Spirit there are spirit, mind, and personality gravity circuits that have an increasing pull of influence and power to return us to our source see 12:3.1-12.

As to your "regulations" comment and issue...first, the universe of universes is certainly orderly and dependable in its laws of absoluteness. There is nothing chaotic or haphazzard about reality. However, God has divested of himself everything that can be so divested and has filled all the universes with creative mind and free will with many trillions of trillions of beings to both experience and give expression of each personal and unique experience in that reality and every experience and expression creates new and perpetual potentials for ever more newer experience and expression.

There are 700.000 Creator Sons/Michaels creating 7,000,000,000,000 unique material worlds plus millions of unique archetectural spheres all filled with free will creatures in a universal celebration of individualism and freedom and expression and experience- this is the law and regulation of reality and what pleases God. The Supreme is the beneficiary and expression of all such potential realized in time and space for the next level of creative expression and experience and potential to come.

There must be a certain amount of order and organization to manage such an extraordinary amount of free will and such a wide spectrum of experience and wisdom. Error attends free will. Such error even includes everything that is good but less than perfect in its effects....we are perfecting but not perfect remember. And there is the potential for sin and iniquity with free will. So mistakes, repercussions, disloyalty, self love and self importance, treachery and treason, immaturity and impatience...even simple difference of opinions - must all find and face protocols and process for resolution.

Do not mistake orderliness and resolution process and simple administration for "regulations". God's creation is ruled by love, genuine affection, patience, and mercy as well as by law and justice after all.

:D 8)


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Here's another example of some very high level perplexion and speculations and example of metaphysics:

4:1.5 God upholds "all things by the word of his power." And when new worlds are born, he "sends forth his Sons and they are created." God not only creates, but he "preserves them all." God constantly upholds all things material and all beings spiritual. The universes are eternally stable. There is stability in the midst of apparent instability. There is an underlying order and security in the midst of the energy upheavals and the physical cataclysms of the starry realms.

4:1.6 The Universal Father has not withdrawn from the management of the universes; he is not an inactive Deity. If God should retire as the present upholder of all creation, there would immediately occur a universal collapse. Except for God, there would be no such thing as reality. At this very moment, as during the remote ages of the past and in the eternal future, God continues to uphold. The divine reach extends around the circle of eternity. The universe is not wound up like a clock to run just so long and then cease to function; all things are constantly being renewed. The Father unceasingly pours forth energy, light, and life. The work of God is literal as well as spiritual. "He stretches out the north over the empty space and hangs the earth upon nothing."

4:1.7 A being of my order is able to discover ultimate harmony and to detect far-reaching and profound co- ordination in the routine affairs of universe administration. Much that seems disjointed and haphazard to the mortal mind appears orderly and constructive to my understanding. But there is very much going on in the universes that I do not fully comprehend. I have long been a student of, and am more or less conversant with, the recognized forces, energies, minds, morontias, spirits, and personalities of the local universes and the superuniverses. I have a general understanding of how these agencies and personalities operate, and I am intimately familiar with the workings of the accredited spirit intelligences of the grand universe. Notwithstanding my knowledge of the phenomena of the universes, I am constantly confronted with cosmic reactions which I cannot fully fathom. I am continually encountering apparently fortuitous conspiracies of the interassociation of forces, energies, intellects, and spirits, which I cannot satisfactorily explain.

4:1.8 I am entirely competent to trace out and to analyze the working of all phenomena directly resulting from the functioning of the Universal Father, the Eternal Son, the Infinite Spirit, and, to a large extent, the Isle of Paradise. My perplexity is occasioned by encountering what appears to be the performance of their mysterious co-ordinates, the three Absolutes of potentiality. These Absolutes seem to supersede matter, to transcend mind, and to supervene spirit. I am constantly confused and often perplexed by my inability to comprehend these complex transactions which I attribute to the presences and performances of the Unqualified Absolute, the Deity Absolute, and the Universal Absolute.

4:1.9 These Absolutes must be the not-fully-revealed presences abroad in the universe which, in the phenomena of space potency and in the function of other superultimates, render it impossible for physicists, philosophers, or even religionists to predict with certainty as to just how the primordials of force, concept, or spirit will respond to demands made in a complex reality situation involving supreme adjustments and ultimate values.

4:1.10 There is also an organic unity in the universes of time and space which seems to underlie the whole fabric of cosmic events. This living presence of the evolving Supreme Being, this Immanence of the Projected Incomplete, is inexplicably manifested ever and anon by what appears to be an amazingly fortuitous co-ordination of apparently unrelated universe happenings. This must be the function of Providence—the realm of the Supreme Being and the Conjoint Actor.

4:1.11 I am inclined to believe that it is this far-flung and generally unrecognizable control of the co- ordination and interassociation of all phases and forms of universe activity that causes such a variegated and apparently hopelessly confused medley of physical, mental, moral, and spiritual phenomena so unerringly to work out to the glory of God and for the good of men and angels.

4:1.12 But in the larger sense the apparent "accidents" of the cosmos are undoubtedly a part of the finite drama of the time-space adventure of the Infinite in his eternal manipulation of the Absolutes.


8)


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One of the most profoundly important matters presented in these studies for me is summarized below in this last quote from Paper 103.

No matter how faulty our metaphysics or how false our beliefs or how ignorant we may be about the universe or even God or how strong our prejudice or how primitive are our creeds and dogmas or how superstitious we may be….still may we experience faith and truth and grow in the spirit and grow soul for the eternal adventure by a personal religious experience that delivers us from darkness, anxiety, fear, and uncertainty to the fruits of the Spirit and this inner experience and relationship with God can attach our branch to the Divine Vine of love and nurture us and transform us into sublime beings of eternal potential and unimaginable adventure!!

We come to trust God in all matters as we come to know the affection, tender mercy, kindness, patience, and abiding love as his children in this loving family and friendly universe…and we may come to know this no matter how little else we may know.

The correction of error and elimination of confusion by the addition of knowledge delivered by self revelation, personal revelation, epochal revelation, and experiential wisdom combine to enhance the quality and progress of such an experience. As we learn fact and truth, our lens of universe perspective both widens its view and adds depth to view to deliver a more objective vision of reality.

Metaphysical constructs get replaced by realism and fact, faith is supplemented and complimented by truth, hope becomes assurance, uncertainty becomes unshakeable confidence in the ultimate outcomes of adventure and sublime peace replaces prior anxieties and confusions.

103:9.12 (1142.3) There is a reality in religious experience that is proportional to the spiritual content, and such a reality is transcendent to reason, science, philosophy, wisdom, and all other human achievements. The convictions of such an experience are unassailable; the logic of religious living is incontrovertible; the certainty of such knowledge is superhuman; the satisfactions are superbly divine, the courage indomitable, the devotions unquestioning, the loyalties supreme, and the destinies final—eternal, ultimate, and universal.


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Bradly -
am just starting to get the idea of all this now 5 5 5 - very interesting but the Old Man has delegated a lot of things - and the divine Adjuster is his insight to everything living being and everything - very cool ... - ok getting it slowly !!!
UB really in hitting the nail on head on subjects all over the place - whoa
stevev blunder in thailand

32:4.8 (363.6) We can see and understand the mechanism whereby the Sons enjoy intimate and complete knowledge regarding the universes of their jurisdiction; but we cannot fully comprehend the methods whereby God is so fully and personally conversant with the details of the universe of universes, although we at least can recognize the avenue whereby the Universal Father can receive information regarding, and manifest his presence to, the beings of his immense creation. Through the personality circuit the Father is cognizant—has personal knowledge—of all the thoughts and acts of all the beings in all the systems of all the universes of all creation. Though we cannot fully grasp this technique of God’s communion with his children, we can be strengthened in the assurance that the “Lord knows his children,” and that of each one of us “he takes note where we were born.”

32:4.9 (363.7) In your universe and in your heart the Universal Father is present, spiritually speaking, by one of the Seven Master Spirits of central abode and, specifically, by the divine Adjuster who lives and works and waits in the depths of the mortal mind.

32:4.10 (363.8) God is not a self-centered personality; the Father freely distributes himself to his creation and to his creatures. He lives and acts, not only in the Deities, but also in his Sons, whom he intrusts with the doing of everything that it is divinely possible for them to do. The Universal Father has truly divested himself of every function which it is possible for another being to perform. And this is just as true of mortal man as of the Creator Son who rules in God’s stead at the headquarters of a local universe. Thus we behold the outworking of the ideal and infinite love of the Universal Father.

32:4.11 (364.1) In this universal bestowal of himself we have abundant proof of both the magnitude and the magnanimity of the Father’s divine nature. If God has withheld aught of himself from the universal creation, then of that residue he is in lavish generosity bestowing the Thought Adjusters upon the mortals of the realms, the Mystery Monitors of time, who so patiently indwell the mortal candidates for life everlasting.

32:4.12 (364.2) The Universal Father has poured out himself, as it were, to make all creation rich in personality possession and potential spiritual attainment. God has given us himself that we may be like him, and he has reserved for himself of power and glory only that which is necessary for the maintenance of those things for the love of which he has thus divested himself of all things else.


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Actually, you will come to learn that only we humans, us lowly mortal born natives of the evolutionary material worlds are given the God Fragment-the Thought Adjusters. Not the angels or any higher beings.

To understand how God knows everything about everyone and everything and all things is something called "reflectivity". Read Paper 9, Section 7 and Paper 17, Sections 2 and 3. It is indeed true that nothing can be hidden or unknown. Certainly not sin or iniquity or disloyalty can be kept from God...but also no word spoken or feeling felt or thought held or progress made or maturity gained.

An interesting fact about reflectivity is that it is a circuit so that anything received in Paradise may also be redirected to anywhere else and to anyone else at any time in the future or with an immediacy of instantaneous timing. There can never be any doubt or dispute as to what happened when or what was ever thought by whom...there is an eternal record.

We are perfecting beings...every step is measured and known both forwards and back.

When my grannie told me nothing could be hidden from God, she knew what she was talking about!!!

8) Bradly


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Hello everyone, I have a question. What role does the Father's personality circuit play in omniscience?


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katroofjebus wrote:
Hello everyone, I have a question. What role does the Father's personality circuit play in omniscience?


Welcome...great question! The personality circuit, the mind and reflectivity circuit, the Thought Adjusters/God fragments, and Spirit circuit all combine I think to provide omniscience.

See Paper 3, Section 3 and Paper 7:1.1 and 9:1.5 and 9:7.5

Apologies but cannot copy and paste text right now.

Thanks for being here.

8)


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Thank you for the welcome. I read the references you suggested and another question came to mind. If reflectivity focalizes on Paradise in the person of Majeston, and the personality circuit focalizes on Paradise in the person of the Universal Father, do they have separate and unique functions?


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katroofjebus wrote:
Thank you for the welcome. I read the references you suggested and another question came to mind. If reflectivity focalizes on Paradise in the person of Majeston, and the personality circuit focalizes on Paradise in the person of the Universal Father, do they have separate and unique functions?


Yes indeed they do. Each personality of the trinity has distinct characteristics and powers that individuate them one from another. They also combine to form 7 distinct combinations of character which are called the 7 Master Spirits which also provide unique functions and influences. Each of the 3 and then 4 combinations of the 3 make up the 7 Master Spirits.

Papers 4, 7, 9, 10, & 16 help differentiate both the Trinity and the Sevenfold natures of Deity expressions and Deity functions.

2. The Omnipresent Spirit

9:2.1 (100.3) God is spirit in a threefold sense: He himself is spirit; in his Son he appears as spirit without qualification; in the Conjoint Actor, as spirit allied with mind. And in addition to these spiritual realities, we think we discern levels of experiential spirit phenomena—the spirits of the Supreme Being, Ultimate Deity, and Deity Absolute.

9:2.2 (100.4) The Infinite Spirit is just as much a complement of the Eternal Son as the Son is a complement of the Universal Father. The Eternal Son is a spiritualized personalization of the Father; the Infinite Spirit is a personalized spiritualization of the Eternal Son and the Universal Father.

9:2.3 (100.5) There are many untrammeled lines of spiritual force and sources of supermaterial power linking the people of Urantia directly with the Deities of Paradise. There exist the connection of the Thought Adjusters direct with the Universal Father, the widespread influence of the spiritual-gravity urge of the Eternal Son, and the spiritual presence of the Conjoint Creator. There is a difference in function between the spirit of the Son and the spirit of the Spirit. The Third Person in his spiritual ministry may function as mind plus spirit or as spirit alone.

9:2.4 (100.6) In addition to these Paradise presences, Urantians benefit by the spiritual influences and activities of the local and the superuniverse, with their almost endless array of loving personalities who ever lead the true of purpose and the honest of heart upward and inward towards the ideals of divinity and the goal of supreme perfection.

9:2.5 (100.7) The presence of the universal spirit of the Eternal Son we know—we can unmistakably recognize it. The presence of the Infinite Spirit, the Third Person of Deity, even mortal man may know, for material creatures can actually experience the beneficence of this divine influence which functions as the Holy Spirit of local universe bestowal upon the races of mankind. Human beings can also in some degree become conscious of the Adjuster, the impersonal presence of the Universal Father. These divine spirits which work for man’s uplifting and spiritualization all act in unison and in perfect co-operation. They are as one in the spiritual operation of the plans of mortal ascension and perfection attainment.

The Seven Master Spirits

16:0.1 (184.1) THE Seven Master Spirits of Paradise are the primary personalities of the Infinite Spirit. In this sevenfold creative act of self-duplication the Infinite Spirit exhausted the associative possibilities mathematically inherent in the factual existence of the three persons of Deity. Had it been possible to produce a larger number of Master Spirits, they would have been created, but there are just seven associative possibilities, and only seven, inherent in three Deities. And this explains why the universe is operated in seven grand divisions, and why the number seven is basically fundamental in its organization and administration.

16:0.2 (184.2) The Seven Master Spirits thus have their origin in, and derive their individual characteristics from, the following seven likenesses:

16:0.3 (184.3) 1. The Universal Father.
16:0.4 (184.4) 2. The Eternal Son.
16:0.5 (184.5) 3. The Infinite Spirit.
16:0.6 (184.6) 4. The Father and the Son.
16:0.7 (184.7) 5. The Father and the Spirit.
16:0.8 (184.8) 6. The Son and the Spirit.
16:0.9 (184.9) 7. The Father, Son, and Spirit.

16:0.12 (184.12) The Master Spirits have many functions, but at the present time their particular domain is the central supervision of the seven superuniverses. Each Master Spirit maintains an enormous force-focal headquarters, which slowly circulates around the periphery of Paradise, always maintaining a position opposite the superuniverse of immediate supervision and at the Paradise focal point of its specialized power control and segmental energy distribution. The radial boundary lines of any one of the superuniverses do actually converge at the Paradise headquarters of the supervising Master Spirit.

16:4.6 (189.7) Much of the reality of the spiritual worlds is of the morontia order, a phase of universe reality wholly unknown on Urantia. The goal of personality existence is spiritual, but the morontia creations always intervene, bridging the gulf between the material realms of mortal origin and the superuniverse spheres of advancing spiritual status. It is in this realm that the Master Spirits make their great contribution to the plan of man’s Paradise ascension.

16:5.1 (190.11) Each segment of the grand universe, each individual universe and world, enjoys the benefits of the united counsel and wisdom of all Seven Master Spirits but receives the personal touch and tinge of only one. And the personal nature of each Master Spirit entirely pervades and uniquely conditions his superuniverse.

Me here: The connection to metaphysics here is great. There are multiple connections to God within the minds of mortals. Each Spirit influence has its own unique circuits and influences and personality traits and effects in the minds of ascenders. Each has distinction in reality and the super conscious mind can discern and discover such differences and distinctions. We are told that Hindus, for example, created so many Deities to represent all these different aspects of God. See Paper 104 Growth of the Trinity Concept, Section 1 Urantian Trinity Concepts. Humanity has based so many mythologies and traditions based upon the metaphysical constructs of reality concepts created by mind. Some of which is based on factual and historical teachings and some of which was gained by intellect, reason, insight, imagination, and by revelation.

Hope this helps. Big question. You throw a wide lasso there partner!! :wink: :idea: 8)


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the conflict between science and religion and the resultant attempts to unify them (metaphysics) is a relatively new phenomenon, as is science apart from natural philosophy...it's a 19th century "modern problem". hope this helps clarify the definition of metaphysics for those who care...


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Forgive me for coming into the middle of this conversation, but isn't metaphysics about philosophic theories concerning the abstract nature and structure of the world. Wouldn't the abstract nature of the world include the transcendental?


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katroofjebus wrote:
Forgive me for coming into the middle of this conversation, but isn't metaphysics about philosophic theories concerning the abstract nature and structure of the world. Wouldn't the abstract nature of the world include the transcendental?



Yes. And you are most welcome to join the discussion with questions, comments, and text. You may wish to review the discussion so far to evaluate its current status. Metaphysics is the reasoned and invented explanation for perceived or imagined reality which acts as a substitute for factual knowledge and empirical evidence of that reality perceived or imagined. And there is nothing new about metaphysics.

Cavemen had metaphysical explanations for everything, from rain to sunrise and seasons. Certainly are the unseen forces and beings of the spirit and morontial estate part of these human inventions of cause and effect, it's not just material by any means. The history of our world is one long story of developmental and progressive metaphysics.

The nature of God and heaven and our relationship to higher realities, creationism itself, the laws of physics and karma, luck and fortune and misfortune, fate and destiny...all of these are issues of speculation and inventions for and of human explanations. Metaphysics began with the first human mind. It is the inherent result of mind itself. Curiosity and wonder and imagination and intuition and insight and reason all combine to create the metaphysics of both science and religion as well as the harmonization of our integrating philosophies.

Metaphysics are slowly displaced by knowledge of facts, which often creates whole new opportunities for more metaphysics. Or so I understand the text to teach.

8)


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