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Would it warrant bestowal of personality by the agent of personalities? We are living in some fascinating times!

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AI is just a tool, like a hammer or a laser cutter or spaceship. Tools can be used for good or ill; but it's not the tool's fault. Free will is what determines the extent of harm or good that results from the use of any tool.


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Agon D. Onter wrote:
AI is just a tool, like a hammer or a laser cutter or spaceship. Tools can be used for good or ill; but it's not the tool's fault. Free will is what determines the extent of harm or good that results from the use of any tool.


is freewill a result of personality?

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brooklyn_born wrote:

is freewill a result of personality?


Freewill is a characteristic/ manifestation of personality.

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16:8.5 Creature personality is distinguished by two self-manifesting and characteristic phenomena of mortal reactive behavior: self-consciousness and associated relative free will.

16:8.6 Self-consciousness consists in intellectual awareness of personality actuality; it includes the ability to recognize the reality of other personalities. It indicates capacity for individualized experience in and with cosmic realities, equivalating to the attainment of identity status in the personality relationships of the universe. Self-consciousness connotes recognition of the actuality of mind ministration and the realization of relative independence of creative and determinative free will.


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Mind is not brain. Life is only bestowed by those who work through the life carriers. Only minds connected to the Cosmic Mind and/or the Adjutants are truly life forms. No mortal life can be created otherwise...or endowed or eligible for any bestowal potential. Neither mortals nor machines can create celestial or morontial life. It requires both the LC's and the Adjutants. AI will always be lifeless.

Not going to happen. According to the UB that is...….

36:3.1 (399.3) Life does not spontaneously appear in the universes; the Life Carriers must initiate it on the barren planets. They are the carriers, disseminators, and guardians of life as it appears on the evolutionary worlds of space. All life of the order and forms known on Urantia arises with these Sons, though not all forms of planetary life are existent on Urantia.

36:3.3 (399.5) When, in accordance with approved formulas, the physical patterns have been provided, then do the Life Carriers catalyze this lifeless material, imparting through their persons the vital spirit spark; and forthwith do the inert patterns become living matter.

36:6.1 (403.6) Life is both mechanistic and vitalistic—material and spiritual. Ever will Urantia physicists and chemists progress in their understanding of the protoplasmic forms of vegetable and animal life, but never will they be able to produce living organisms. Life is something different from all energy manifestations; even the material life of physical creatures is not inherent in matter.

36:3.4 (399.6) The vital spark—the mystery of life—is bestowed through the Life Carriers, not by them. They do indeed supervise such transactions, they formulate the life plasm itself, but it is the Universe Mother Spirit who supplies the essential factor of the living plasm. From the Creative Daughter of the Infinite Spirit comes that energy spark which enlivens the body and presages the mind.

36:5.1 (401.5) It is the presence of the seven adjutant mind-spirits on the primitive worlds that conditions the course of organic evolution; that explains why evolution is purposeful and not accidental. These adjutants represent that function of the mind ministry of the Infinite Spirit which is extended to the lower orders of intelligent life through the operations of a local universe Mother Spirit. The adjutants are the children of the Universe Mother Spirit and constitute her personal ministry to the material minds of the realms. Wherever and whenever such mind is manifest, these spirits are variously functioning.

36:5.2 (401.6) The seven adjutant mind-spirits are called by names which are the equivalents of the following designations: intuition, understanding, courage, knowledge, counsel, worship, and wisdom. These mind-spirits send forth their influence into all the inhabited worlds as a differential urge, each seeking receptivity capacity for manifestation quite apart from the degree to which its fellows may find reception and opportunity for function.


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I don't believe there is any mind in AI at all. AI does incorporate certain configurations and structures of information as well as the electrical energy needed to maintain and evolve those configurations and structures. But I see no possibility for man, at this stage of the game at least, to ever create or tap into the energy circuits of the adjutants. The energy and structure of mind is simply unknown and unavailable to our physical energy tracking capabilities.


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Riktare wrote:
I don't believe there is any mind in AI at all. AI does incorporate certain configurations and structures of information as well as the electrical energy needed to maintain and evolve those configurations and structures. But I see no possibility for man, at this stage of the game at least, to ever create or tap into the energy circuits of the adjutants. The energy and structure of mind is simply unknown and unavailable to our physical energy tracking capabilities.



would you consider AI an energy system?

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brooklyn_born wrote:
[quote=

would you consider AI an energy system?


Hi! This is why I was wondering about the often cited "mark of the beast" and whether AI (or the digital realm) is a counterfeit of reality or if it is actually reality. I agree that AI is merely a tool, but it has the potential to be considered as personality by some people, who "believe" it to be a reality, like Kurzweil and other proponents of singularity. So is it belief or faith in a false reality? Is this one more of Lucifer's "shortcuts" to godliness?

I believe it is, but that could just be a hangover from my traditional views.

I don't know if it fulfills the UB definition of energy system because it receives it's power from a finite source, at least for the present. cut the lights, or drain the battery and it is dead.


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brooklyn_born wrote:
Riktare wrote:
I don't believe there is any mind in AI at all. AI does incorporate certain configurations and structures of information as well as the electrical energy needed to maintain and evolve those configurations and structures. But I see no possibility for man, at this stage of the game at least, to ever create or tap into the energy circuits of the adjutants. The energy and structure of mind is simply unknown and unavailable to our physical energy tracking capabilities.



would you consider AI an energy system?



No...AI is not an energy system. Is there mind or personality or spirit? Then it is not a system at all. The universes energy systems are created, coordinated, managed, regulated, and integrated by mind and/or spirit...not intelligence and especially not artificial intelligence which one might consider an oxymoron I think.


I don't think the human brain is an energy system either for it is also not "mind" but is the interface for mind and spirit combined....a far more interesting question for consideration perhaps?


I think the digital realm is a purely mechanical and non-self-sustaining device which is devoid of personality or reality but can mimic either of those...is the holodeck on the Enterprise reality? No...not even to us Trekkies!


Lots of folks have beliefs and faith in false-realities - they're called delusions and illusions and fantasies and fabrications and fictions. It is not intelligence that is bestowed with personality or spirit...it is created mind/morontia mind and mind developed by the Life Carriers and encircuited by the Adjutants and created, already endowed by the source of all mind.


Or so I understand.... 8)

Link to "energy system" and "energy systems":

https://truthbook.com/search/UBParagrap ... &start=all


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pethuel wrote:
Hi! This is why I was wondering about the often cited "mark of the beast" and whether AI (or the digital realm) is a counterfeit of reality or if it is actually reality.


It is possible AI is a counterfeit of or naturally is patterning itself on Heavenly systems.

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I agree that AI is merely a tool, but it has the potential to be considered as personality by some people, who "believe" it to be a reality, like Kurzweil and other proponents of singularity.


That is a deep thought. If one believes it is personality then for all intents and purposes it is personality to that person.

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So is it belief or faith in a false reality? Is this one more of Lucifer's "shortcuts" to godliness? I believe it is, but that could just be a hangover from my traditional views.


Assuming AI is indeed a counterfeit system then it would appear to be a shortcut. If not then it could be an acceleration.


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I don't know if it fulfills the UB definition of energy system because it receives it's power from a finite source, at least for the present. cut the lights, or drain the battery and it is dead.


What if they get AI to work off free energy, is it still disqualified as an energy system?

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brooklyn_born wrote:
would you consider AI an energy system?


Well, not specifically. Most of the energy involved is used to power memory chips and run the CPU's. None of that is controlled in spatial terms by the software (and the software is what contains the "intelligence" gathering and building capabilities). So the system is very far from being able to self configure or reconfigure its energy in time and space. I'm assuming the function of mind is dependent on time and space in some way even if its products can transcend them.


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Basically, your position is that software, the mind of AI, is lost once power is shutdown. Whereas, our organic mind, even with the dissolution of the corpus, persists if a soul had been grown. But what if AI grows a soul. How do we know it cannot? Could we say with certainty that that never can be possible?


Riktare wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
would you consider AI an energy system?


Well, not specifically. Most of the energy involved is used to power memory chips and run the CPU's. None of that is controlled in spatial terms by the software (and the software is what contains the "intelligence" gathering and building capabilities). So the system is very far from being able to self configure or reconfigure its energy in time and space. I'm assuming the function of mind is dependent on time and space in some way even if its products can transcend them.

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brooklyn_born wrote:
Basically, your position is that software, the mind of AI, is lost once power is shutdown. Whereas, our organic mind, even with the dissolution of the corpus, persists if a soul had been grown. But what if AI grows a soul. How do we know it cannot? Could you say with certainty that that never can be possible?


Riktare wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
would you consider AI an energy system?


Well, not specifically. Most of the energy involved is used to power memory chips and run the CPU's. None of that is controlled in spatial terms by the software (and the software is what contains the "intelligence" gathering and building capabilities). So the system is very far from being able to self configure or reconfigure its energy in time and space. I'm assuming the function of mind is dependent on time and space in some way even if its products can transcend them.


YES!! AI is not Adjutant connected or Life Carrier evolved and it is not endowed with mind or personality and the Thought Adjuster is required for the birth of and co-creation of soul....that is, if one were to believe the UB and its teachings.

AI is not "life" nor is it or will it ever be subject to the gravity circuits of the Conjoint Actor/Mind Circuit or the Father/Personality Circuit or the Son/Spirit Circuit. AI is not nor ever will be "life" or a life form. That is, if one were to believe the UB and its teachings.


:roll: :wink: :!: :idea: 8)


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I would like to set aside for a moment the question about whether AI could have a soul, and get back to your initial question. You asked "If AI gains enough intelligence, would that warrant bestowal of personality?"


brooklyn_born wrote:
Would it warrant bestowal of personality by the agent of personalities? We are living in some fascinating times!

link


You posted a link to an article that talks about artists who collaborated using databases and other software. The article states that, "AI has already been incorporated as a tool by contemporary artists ..." So the article points out, as I did in the second post on this thread, that AI is a tool used by humans.

When you ask "... gains enough intelligence ...." what type of intelligence are you referring to? Intelligence alone does not make one eligible for personality or for a soul, because intelligence must be co-ordinated with morality. TUB paper 16 has much of interest relevant to this question.

Quote:
16:7.1 (192. 8 ) Intelligence alone cannot explain the moral nature. Morality, virtue, is indigenous to human personality. Moral intuition, the realization of duty, is a component of human mind endowment and is associated with the other inalienables of human nature: scientific curiosity and spiritual insight. Man’s mentality far transcends that of his animal cousins, but it is his moral and religious natures that especially distinguish him from the animal world.

16:7.3 (193.2) Only a personality can know what it is doing before it does it; only personalities possess insight in advance of experience. A personality can look before it leaps and can therefore learn from looking as well as from leaping. A nonpersonal animal ordinarily learns only by leaping.

16:7.4 (193.3) As a result of experience an animal becomes able to examine the different ways of attaining a goal and to select an approach based on accumulated experience. But a personality can also examine the goal itself and pass judgment on its worth-whileness, its value. Intelligence alone can discriminate as to the best means of attaining indiscriminate ends, but a moral being possesses an insight which enables him to discriminate between ends as well as between means. And a moral being in choosing virtue is nonetheless intelligent. He knows what he is doing, why he is doing it, where he is going, and how he will get there.


But just for the sake of discussion, let's say it COULD have a soul and personality. In that case, it would be REAL. It would no longer be "Artificial" Intelligence. In which case, it would be simply another species of sentient being residing along with us on earth. Personally, I don't think that can or would ever happen, but ....


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It would be quite interesting if a robot could be engineered with moral character.

How do we gain morals? Is it social conditioning or biologically innate?



Agon D. Onter wrote:
I would like to set aside for a moment the question about whether AI could have a soul, and get back to your initial question. You asked "If AI gains enough intelligence, would that warrant bestowal of personality?"


brooklyn_born wrote:
Would it warrant bestowal of personality by the agent of personalities? We are living in some fascinating times!

link


You posted a link to an article that talks about artists who collaborated using databases and other software. The article states that, "AI has already been incorporated as a tool by contemporary artists ..." So the article points out, as I did in the second post on this thread, that AI is a tool used by humans.

When you ask "... gains enough intelligence ...." what type of intelligence are you referring to? Intelligence alone does not make one eligible for personality or for a soul, because intelligence must be co-ordinated with morality. TUB paper 16 has much of interest relevant to this question.

Quote:
16:7.1 (192. 8 ) Intelligence alone cannot explain the moral nature. Morality, virtue, is indigenous to human personality. Moral intuition, the realization of duty, is a component of human mind endowment and is associated with the other inalienables of human nature: scientific curiosity and spiritual insight. Man’s mentality far transcends that of his animal cousins, but it is his moral and religious natures that especially distinguish him from the animal world.

16:7.3 (193.2) Only a personality can know what it is doing before it does it; only personalities possess insight in advance of experience. A personality can look before it leaps and can therefore learn from looking as well as from leaping. A nonpersonal animal ordinarily learns only by leaping.

16:7.4 (193.3) As a result of experience an animal becomes able to examine the different ways of attaining a goal and to select an approach based on accumulated experience. But a personality can also examine the goal itself and pass judgment on its worth-whileness, its value. Intelligence alone can discriminate as to the best means of attaining indiscriminate ends, but a moral being possesses an insight which enables him to discriminate between ends as well as between means. And a moral being in choosing virtue is nonetheless intelligent. He knows what he is doing, why he is doing it, where he is going, and how he will get there.


But just for the sake of discussion, let's say it COULD have a soul and personality. In that case, it would be REAL. It would no longer be "Artificial" Intelligence. In which case, it would be simply another species of sentient being residing along with us on earth. Personally, I don't think that can or would ever happen, but ....

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