The P word, the Jesusonion and politics

I was reading this just now and it left quite an impression. Brazil has just gone through a very strange and ugly presidential campaign, despicable behavior from both the extreme left and the extreme right, and the social media, polarized by the media, was boiling with hatred, accusations and outright lies and slanderous statements designed for shock value. But I digress.

144:6.3 (1624.14) Andrew and Abner alternated in presiding over these joint meetings of the two apostolic groups. These men had many difficulties to discuss and numerous problems to solve. Again and again would they take their troubles to Jesus, only to hear him say: “I am concerned only with your personal and purely religious problems. I am the representative of the Father to the individual, not to the group. If you are in personal difficulty in your relations with God, come to me, and I will hear you and counsel you in the solution of your problem. But when you enter upon the co-ordination of divergent human interpretations of religious questions and upon the socialization of religion, you are destined to solve all such problems by your own decisions. Albeit, I am ever sympathetic and always interested, and when you arrive at your conclusions touching these matters of nonspiritual import, provided you are all agreed, then I pledge in advance my full approval and hearty co-operation. And now, in order to leave you unhampered in your deliberations, I am leaving you for two weeks. Be not anxious about me, for I will return to you. I will be about my Father’s business, for we have other realms besides this one.”

I am personally offended by those who use the name of Jesus (or any other religion) in the basest way for the sole purpose of winning a few votes. This declaration from Jesus answered all my questions concerning religion in politics. Any comment?

Gee, your description of politics is Brazil sounds strangely familiar to politics here in the US these days!

The Urantia Book has a lot to say about politics. Here's one statement and section that seems to tie it all up as an ideal. We have a lot to learn...:

71:8.1 The only sacred feature of any human government is the division of statehood into the three domains of executive, legislative, and judicial functions. The universe is administered in accordance with such a plan of segregation of functions and authority. Aside from this divine concept of effective social regulation or civil government, it matters little what form of state a people may elect to have provided the citizenry is ever progressing toward the goal of augmented self-control and increased social service. The intellectual keenness, economic wisdom, social cleverness, and moral stamina of a people are all faithfully reflected in statehood.

From The Character of Statehood https://truthbook.com/urantia-book/paper-71-development-of-the-state#U71_8_0

The state of politics in our world is pretty dismal - so much shouting and anger. Our "intellectual keenness, economic wisdom, social cleverness, and moral stamina" seem to be in a state of wild extremes - and I agree that the invoking of Jesus' name does not help, as it is used to further polarize people. He and his mission are still so poorly understood...he avoided politics from the first, and was advised about it by Immanuel and Gabriel even before he incarnated here:

“3. In your relations to the social order we advise that you confine your efforts largely to spiritual regeneration and intellectual emancipation. Avoid all entanglements with the economic structure and the political commitments of your day. More especially devote yourself to living the ideal religious life on Urantia.

https://truthbook.com/urantia-book/paper-120-the-bestowal-of-michael-on-urantia#U120_3_4

Nevertheless, he left us an amazing religion - he left us an example of a perfected man living "the ideal religious life" - he left us a legacy of love and service and duty. If only the world knew more about Jesus and aspired to the high ideals of living that he embodied, our politics would gradually become infiltrated with those individuals who really live what the Master taught, and who might be able to influence real progress towards the highest ideals.

Again, we have a long way to go...

BTW, here's a TruthBook topical study on Politics - a good condensation of UBook teachings about it: https://truthbook.com/urantia/topical-studies/politics

From that link I found the first word in English I didn't know in about a decade

spoilsman
[spoilz-muh n]
noun, plural spoils·men.

a person who seeks or receives a share in political spoils.
an advocate of the spoils system in politics.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/spoilsman

WOW!! Awesome presentation and study guide on politics: https://truthbook.com/urantia/topical-studies/politics

There have been far too many discussions here which went no where and defied TB's guidelines related to politics by regressing into debates about individual political beliefs and entrenched political "solutions" to all of the world's woes and deficiencies.

The study guide linked to is a good summary of the topic as presented in the UB - the evolution of politics and political maturity over time and by experience.

I think the ideals presented in the UB for political effectiveness in serving planetary progress require several adjustments which are not political but are ethical in nature...and driven/delivered by the spiritual maturation and vision of the people collectively which define, measure, and insist upon ethics in governance. Those adjustments include transparency and accountability and fairness and duty - true representation of the greatest good for the greatest number which lacks self dealing and self serving.


It is the ideal of service itself. Service to others motivated by the love of others. Politics whereby the fruits of the spirit deliver the results of such a deliberative and representative process. This is not a political problem with a pollical solution - it is an ethical and moral problem which only ethics and morals can correct...or that is my opinion...and I think is confirmed in the UB.


In Paper 72 - Government on a Neighboring Planet - we are told that the most advanced nation hit a wall of progress that could not be overcome until a certain ruler voluntarily switched from self serving to social service. Much like individual mortals must transfer the seat of our dual nature's identity...so must all persons do so collectively....but collectively as individuals exhibiting wisdom...the wisdom of the Golden Rule at least.


We are told that for a wise person, to treat others as we wish to be treated is actually a form of self serving restraint and respect...it serves everyone. It is not a sacrifice but a way which delivers true liberty to me...as well as to all others. The elimination of false liberty comes at a cost to one's own personal self interest and immediate gratification (false liberty) but creates and protects my own personal self interest at the same time...it's an act of experiential maturity but also on wise self interest...the simple recognition that true liberty is more functional and more desirable that false liberty. False liberty is error and such evil is not based in universe reality and therefor cannot be sustained but will eventually be abandoned once sufficient experience and wisdom are acquired.


Personally, I think this evolutionary step of progress toward the Brotherhood of All (the universal embrace of the Golden Rule) is not yet that Brotherhood which will still require additional progress up the rungs of the ladder of the progressive Golden Rule and brotherly love and universal affection and love directed service motive.


The Golden Rule is taught by the Prince's staff to primitive mortals as the method of governance and politics. It is also taught in the Garden. It is practiced and illustrated by the corporeal administrations on-planet as example to how to manage mortal affairs. IMO we still must re-learn this universal functionality and rules of basic conduct and relationship before making much more progress in "politics" on our world.


180:5.5 (1949.7) The golden rule, when divested of the superhuman insight of the Spirit of Truth, becomes nothing more than a rule of high ethical conduct. The golden rule, when literally interpreted, may become the instrument of great offense to one’s fellows. Without a spiritual discernment of the golden rule of wisdom you might reason that, since you are desirous that all men speak the full and frank truth of their minds to you, you should therefore fully and frankly speak the full thought of your mind to your fellow beings. Such an unspiritual interpretation of the golden rule might result in untold unhappiness and no end of sorrow.

180:5.6 (1950.1) Some persons discern and interpret the golden rule as a purely intellectual affirmation of human fraternity. Others experience this expression of human relationship as an emotional gratification of the tender feelings of the human personality. Another mortal recognizes this same golden rule as the yardstick for measuring all social relations, the standard of social conduct. Still others look upon it as being the positive injunction of a great moral teacher who embodied in this statement the highest concept of moral obligation as regards all fraternal relationships. In the lives of such moral beings the golden rule becomes the wise center and circumference of all their philosophy.

180:5.7 (1950.2) In the kingdom of the believing brotherhood of God-knowing truth lovers, this golden rule takes on living qualities of spiritual realization on those higher levels of interpretation which cause the mortal sons of God to view this injunction of the Master as requiring them so to relate themselves to their fellows that they will receive the highest possible good as a result of the believer’s contact with them. This is the essence of true religion: that you love your neighbor as yourself.


54:1.8 (614.3) There is no error greater than that species of self-deception which leads intelligent beings to crave the exercise of power over other beings for the purpose of depriving these persons of their natural liberties. The golden rule of human fairness cries out against all such fraud, unfairness, selfishness, and unrighteousness. Only true and genuine liberty is compatible with the reign of love and the ministry of mercy.

54:1.9 (614.4) How dare the self-willed creature encroach upon the rights of his fellows in the name of personal liberty when the Supreme Rulers of the universe stand back in merciful respect for these prerogatives of will and potentials of personality! No being, in the exercise of his supposed personal liberty, has a right to deprive any other being of those privileges of existence conferred by the Creators and duly respected by all their loyal associates, subordinates, and subjects.



Me here: Self love is the parent of self importance and false liberty. So long as those who govern are motivated by self love and self importance and false liberty's domination over others, our world will suffer for its politics and we will continue to be victimized collectively by the few. But as go the parts so goes the whole. In many parts of the world (including Brazil and the USA but certainly not only there and here) do the parts still have progress to make and wisdom to acquire to make adjustments to the political process and its results. The love of money and power still determine our political outcomes, not the love of country or world or neighbor. The immature vote for the immature still today.


Still....the world by its parts and in its collective whole does progress and slowly gains experiential wisdom. We move through the mortal epochs of time and progress is obvious over sufficient time frames...even though it does so often appear to be glacially slow in its advances within any one or two generations! Even so, we are at an interesting intersection of global communication and new forms of transparency both of which may conspire to elevate standards of expectation and progress in our process!! It's only been 100 generations or so since the Son's Spirit was poured out upon Urantia. Lots of change and progress over such a brief time compared to the million years and 50,000 generation before that.


When we view our time and our world with the proper time unit perspective as advised by the UB, we cannot help but be comforted by our progress from barbarity toward Light and Life and confident in the rule of the Most Highs as Urantia transforms itself by evolutionary experience and inspired to anticipate and participate in enlightened social service and the personal extension of loving kindness and ministry to others as we traverse this short life in hope and with resolve. A little composed compassion and encouragement is far more effective than the ranting and raving and shouted disappointments that some subject us to....even here.

Thanks so much! Thanks MaryJo for the link to the study, very helpful! Thanks as well Bradly for the input "reading between the lines" so to speak! Much appreciated!

Pethuel, thanks for noting that word: spoilsmen. I never noticed it before. And I really, really like the whole passage where it is found:

The ideals of statehood must be attained by evolution, by the slow growth of civic consciousness, the recognition of the obligation and privilege of social service. At first men assume the burdens of government as a duty, following the end of the administration of political spoilsmen, but later on they seek such ministry as a privilege, as the greatest honor. The status of any level of civilization is faithfully portrayed by the caliber of its citizens who volunteer to accept the responsibilities of statehood. ~ The Urantia Book, 71:3.10

https://truthbook.com/urantia-book/paper-71-development-of-the-state#U71_3_10

In fact, that whole paper on the development of the state is pretty darn great - especially considering the state of our world right now. I agree with fanofVan that at its most basic, the ideals of statehood will only be achieved through individuals who understand the value of the Golden Rule - its value not only for the one receiving that kind of treatment from another, but the value for the one who practices it, too. Everyone wins, which is so often the case when God's will is realized.

The evolution piece is a little depressing though...evolution is so agonizingly slow, and here we are in the middle of all these changes (quivering on the brink).

99:1.3 Urantia society can never hope to settle down as in past ages. The social ship has steamed out of the sheltered bays of established tradition and has begun its cruise upon the high seas of evolutionary destiny; and the soul of man, as never before in the world's history, needs carefully to scrutinize its charts of morality and painstakingly to observe the compass of religious guidance. The paramount mission of religion as a social influence is to stabilize the ideals of mankind during these dangerous times of transition from one phase of civilization to another, from one level of culture to another.

From another great section: Religion and social reconstruction https://truthbook.com/urantia-book/pape ... on#U99_1_0

Hard to see much of it from where we sit, but good to know that eventually, it will all come out right, even if we may not be around to see it all. At least that's how I like to see it. I like to see so many younger people becoming interested in civics and politics. Many of them strike me as sincerely interested in true public service rather than self-service. It occurs to me that we need to see such great contrasts in order to inspire better candidates to step up.

mj

Look you are definetly wrong to do an imitation of Jesus as far as political manners are concerned. You must recognise that one of the reasons Jesus refrained from becoming a Roman Engineer, a Legate, or a Rabbi, was because his individual mission prohibited this from his public life. It is terribly unwise to consider this forebearance of his part to imply that all people who are engaged in religion should also forebear from politics.

Let us consider that Jesus gave good and proper direction to the thirsty minds of Rome during his time. I think that there are natural proclivities in every person which must be nurtured according to the divine pattern which they are capable of giving expression. Hence, there is this lengthy quotation "to the soldier, he said...", "to the metalsmith, he said..." always applying a degree of correspondence that makes work seem virtuous.

Therefore, it is incumbent on men, not to reject the duties of the public life, and especially for young women & men to grow up intentionally attempting to be acceptible in the public sphere of society. Of course in the Urantia Papers this is measured according to cosmic citizenship rather than Urantia or state citizenship.

The institutions of our world state, the mish-mash corporate global federation of the fourth industrial estate, are objectively compared to the scaffolding of society rather than its pillars. Although there is not the establishment of a recognised federal democratic world-beaurocracy, it must be assumed that civil progress is actually a goal shared by most human individuals. There is natural yearning that our pubilc reccord be complete and accurate according to the records of individual or trust-type transactions. I believe that many people who receive guardian angel, are also choice the path of public service.

The one thing politically speaking Jesus did for his neighbouring state Judaha, was to eliminate the animals from the innerdwellings of his synagogue, and to uproot the insolent commissions that the traders were allowed to transact in Jerusalem. This is my evaluation. Maybe you can say this, that his actions were not politically motivated but in this case its effect is in my view politically-reaching.

Pethuel, thanks for noting that word: spoilsmen. I never noticed it before. And I really, really like the whole passage where it is found: That was Riktare's comment but I had never seen that word before and it's a good one.

The ideals of statehood must be attained by evolution, by the slow growth of civic consciousness, the recognition of the obligation and privilege of social service. At first men assume the burdens of government as a duty, following the end of the administration of political spoilsmen, but later on they seek such ministry as a privilege, as the greatest honor. The status of any level of civilization is faithfully portrayed by the caliber of its citizens who volunteer to accept the responsibilities of statehood. ~ The Urantia Book, 71:3.10

https://truthbook.com/urantia-book/paper-71-development-of-the-state#U71_3_10

In fact, that whole paper on the development of the state is pretty darn great - especially considering the state of our world right now. I agree with fanofVan that at its most basic, the ideals of statehood will only be achieved through individuals who understand the value of the Golden Rule - its value not only for the one receiving that kind of treatment from another, but the value for the one who practices it, too. Everyone wins, which is so often the case when God's will is realized.

The evolution piece is a little depressing though...evolution is so agonizingly slow, and here we are in the middle of all these changes (quivering on the brink).

99:1.3 Urantia society can never hope to settle down as in past ages. The social ship has steamed out of the sheltered bays of established tradition and has begun its cruise upon the high seas of evolutionary destiny; and the soul of man, as never before in the world's history, needs carefully to scrutinize its charts of morality and painstakingly to observe the compass of religious guidance. The paramount mission of religion as a social influence is to stabilize the ideals of mankind during these dangerous times of transition from one phase of civilization to another, from one level of culture to another.

From another great section: Religion and social reconstruction https://truthbook.com/urantia-book/pape ... on#U99_1_0

Hard to see much of it from where we sit, but good to know that eventually, it will all come out right, even if we may not be around to see it all. At least that's how I like to see it. I like to see so many younger people becoming interested in civics and politics. Many of them strike me as sincerely interested in true public service rather than self-service. It occurs to me that we need to see such great contrasts in order to inspire better candidates to step up.

mj

good quotes, studies and comments maryjo, this "paradigm shift" and "awakening" is happening at different levels all around the world. It is an evolutionary change I believe, similar to my generation's 60s hippie movement when the catalyst of the threat of nuclear war, Kennedy's assassination and the Viet Nam war inspired us to look for a different way, to look for spiritual meaning instead of the American Dream. Not everyone of course, but a large percentage.

Look you are definetly wrong to do an imitation of Jesus as far as political manners are concerned. You must recognise that one of the reasons Jesus refrained from becoming a Roman Engineer, a Legate, or a Rabbi, was because his individual mission prohibited this from his public life. It is terribly unwise to consider this forebearance of his part to imply that all people who are engaged in religion should also forebear from politics.

Let us consider that Jesus gave good and proper direction to the thirsty minds of Rome during his time. I think that there are natural proclivities in every person which must be nurtured according to the divine pattern which they are capable of giving expression. Hence, there is this lengthy quotation "to the soldier, he said...", "to the metalsmith, he said..." always applying a degree of correspondence that makes work seem virtuous.

Therefore, it is incumbent on men, not to reject the duties of the public life, and especially for young women & men to grow up intentionally attempting to be acceptible in the public sphere of society. Of course in the Urantia Papers this is measured according to cosmic citizenship rather than Urantia or state citizenship.

The institutions of our world state, the mish-mash corporate global federation of the fourth industrial estate, are objectively compared to the scaffolding of society rather than its pillars. Although there is not the establishment of a recognised federal democratic world-beaurocracy, it must be assumed that civil progress is actually a goal shared by most human individuals. There is natural yearning that our pubilc reccord be complete and accurate according to the records of individual or trust-type transactions. I believe that many people who receive guardian angel, are also choice the path of public service.

The one thing politically speaking Jesus did for his neighbouring state Judaha, was to eliminate the animals from the innerdwellings of his synagogue, and to uproot the insolent commissions that the traders were allowed to transact in Jerusalem. This is my evaluation. Maybe you can say this, that his actions were not politically motivated but in this case its effect is in my view politically-reaching.

Really good points SEla, and your comments and those of others led me to revise my reactionary thinking. It is frustrating that the political class here in Brazil is so corrupt and has lost its credibility, as has the judicial and executive branch as well. But at least the truth is out and people are aware and change can and will gradually come about. The recent election revealed yet another rise of the reactionary right after the left failed to accomplish anything truly meaningful, we have seen this in other countries throughout modern history as the political pendulum swings from one extreme to the other.

But I can't help but feel that the carnal powers that be have successfully manipulated the populations and forced them to choose between the extremes rather than allowing consensus seeking leaders a shot at administration of countries, especially large countries like the US and Brazil. Keeping the population polarized prevents them from seeking ways to forsake the status quo. There is a tremendous vacuum for spiritually minded leadership, but how a spiritually minded person can work his way up to national prominence is beyond me. Unless as Bradly mentioned, a leader in power can have a change of heart and mind and affect major changes in spite of the status quo. I hope so!

The appeal of the caucus, or political faction, is that such group is capable of representing a great many goals of progress. However, in the effectual administration of civil progress, there has been historical discrepency between what is called "platform" and the ability of people to change instutions in the lieu of progress. How are goals actually accomplished not in the touting of problems and exploitation of issues, but silently humans contribute to the goals of world progress on a voluntary basis.

In politics, although factions to "clear the dross" of corporate beaurocratic inefficiency & waste, there is a tremendous problem of greed within governance. Politicians such as Adlai Stevenson took a vow of poverty when entering public service, and expected the same of every clerk and sheriff who effectuated his goals. This can only occur if a person is erstwhile & thoroughly honest.

These are unstable times because these are times of uncertain political alliance, in the sharing of informations. There is a new system of job development, which tracks children's experiences at earlier ages. And indeed, humanity has taken much from Urantia's resources without proper development, without giving back to succeeding generations.

Society will reamalgamate its instutions in the future. Right now, in America federal, the Counties and States have issued a great number of bonds, debts. And the obligation this creates, reduces the power of those administration to coordinate the affairs of their community. Further, many corporations have purchased these bonds from Counties, and use sophisticated bidding processes in order to acquisition land and tax-abatement contract. This is how civil governance shrinks and corporate governance grows. Later, there will be another war, within the intellectual spheres, that shifts the punitive laws of states into the complex regulative ordinance of corporation. And the reamalgamation of government function will occur because Global Corporations will enlist volunteers in order to outmaneuver State Institutions, the same way the British Navy defeated the Spanish Armada in 1588.

Much of the political propaganda is shrowded by conflicting motivations. How can sentient individuals remember the goals of progress in a climate of confusion? One way is to make a sincere attempt to consider every proposal in respect to certain dillema. You should be allowed to formulate your own opinion.

We in America & Brazil know indeed very little about the kind of changes that State-Sponsorship brings to Global Corporations. However, there are microfinance banks, and a new colonization of venture capitalism that exists in Africa, owing much to the Chinese State. The emergence of actual world state cannot be seen in such wildly irresponsible states such as America & Brazil. However, Hong Kong represents the transition of the Federal State to the Global Corporation. It was once British Colony, but now it is connected with a bridge to the mainland of Asia. Cities such as this are far more important when examining how the amalgamation between useful capital becomes assimilated and reappropriated within a world federal beaurocracy. Voting becomes weighted in terms of shareholdership, enfranchisement can be purchased.

The risk in an age top-heavy with electronic technology, is that the regulative ordinances of corporation law, actually contains logical algorithm, which force or compell agents to claim zero ownership of the work/goal of corporations. An ordinance that dictates "An Officer may not act against the mission of the corporation," often goes in conflict with my theory "I cannot act against my own free will." And the more assets are generated and controlled by information systems, there is this risk, that an appointee will come at the recommendation of a statistical analysis, rather than out of insight or personal relationship. Therefore, what is encoded both into the software and also into the legal disclaimers and into the proposals of congress, must be examine as per its logical merits. In the effectuation of information systems, humans are nevertheless integral to every decision. One decision, we know, will affect the process a billion times thereafter for the entire population. How is this applied when terms like "good faith" become criteriatized informationally?

There has been a grassroots movement in both the US and Brazil to eliminate career politics and allowing one term of office only with the idea being that serving the public in congress should be considered an honor and not a career. But convincing politicians to vote themselves out of existence will be quite the task.

There is also the idea that everyone needs to serve their country one year when they reach a certain age, either in the military, or in medicine, in law, or as a representative in the lower house of Congress, as an engineer, or teacher, or whatever, your first year once you graduate is given to the State.

I prefer the liquid democracy idea, here is a different site I found:
https://www.democracy.earth/?fbclid=IwA ... DiY2N1rvRM

My evangelical friends are screaming Mark of the Beast, but evidently for the time being anyway, technology is here to stay. One of my school classmates wrote concerning the above link: "Well, I am not surprised. This is in alignment with prophecy. Read Rev:13, we are there and do a brief study on this particular chapter. I think you will find it as revealing as I did. Look out world."
to which I replied: "I have studied the book of Revelation and I am aware of most of the interpretations. I am also aware that for you and I to access our accounts on facebook we have a number that identifies us. If we have bank accounts we are identified by a number. You have a PIN, a personal identification number which is used for anything official or legal. People loudly complain about a national ID card as threat to freedom, yet they don't see that they are already part and parcel of a globalized credit system.and have a number associated with their name with which they can neither buy nor sell."

In other words we are already deeply involved in technology, everything revolves around it and it has become indispensable to the point that modern society would fall into chaos were technology removed from the picture.

But I would be very interested in some feedback regarding the link I posted above as I expect to receive some questions from people who after their knee jerk reactions actually read the material presented. Americans generally seem to be scared of anything that doesn't originate in the US or that smacks of share the wealth.

Why use outside organisation to effect democratic bodies because it would be easier to regulate. Then there is also a change from what man knows that he must do, to incessant reminders from technology that somnabulently force citizens to express their franchise. It is also energy in the process or recording information.

The goal of full participatory democracy does not require technology in theory.

Why use outside organisation to effect democratic bodies because it would be easier to regulate. Then there is also a change from what man knows that he must do, to incessant reminders from technology that somnabulently force citizens to express their franchise. It is also energy in the process or recording information.

The goal of full participatory democracy does not require technology in theory.

I agree, if the democratic process is decentralized into smaller autonomous areas, which in my thinking is better in many ways, even taking it down to the neighborhood level, where you actually have a chance to know your representative personally and you know that your representative actually represents your neighborhood's interests. In the US the states are supposed to have a certain amount of autonomy but I don't know how that is in practice since I haven't lived there for so long. Here in Brazil there are states but their autonomy is severely limited, they exist mainly to provide public safety, educational facilities and maintain non-federal roads and transportation.

The big picture answer, of course, is that as mortals begin to focus on God and the truths of God, public administration will naturally improve.

I think you are being somewhat unfair and even a little subvercive against established representative democracy. I do not want an outside organisation to superimpose itself on the same jurisdiction as National government. But I remember a period in history when America's policy actively promoted the peaceful resolution of conflict internationally through the unanimous agreements of the U.N.. I would work through these established channels of protocol as long as it is possible to secure the goals of progress through them. I do not want a new organisation to compete in the way your link described against established jurisdictions.

It would be important to acknowledge the difference in democracies and representative republics in form and function. We don't live in a national or state democracy. That is an important fiction to understand.

I really like the collective proxy and coalition grass roots strategy. Lots of potential.