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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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BB, it's clear you have your mind made up and you're just going to twist and twist things to fit your narrative; so have fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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Agon D. Onter wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
I do not see anything about 'raising' or 'awaiting the TA to respond'.

Quote:
The physical body of mortal flesh is not a part of the reassembly of the sleeping survivor; the physical body has returned to dust. The seraphim of assignment sponsors the new body, the morontia form, as the new life vehicle for the immortal soul and for the indwelling of the returned Adjuster. The Adjuster is the custodian of the spirit transcript of the mind of the sleeping survivor. The assigned seraphim is the keeper of the surviving identity—the immortal soul—as far as it has evolved. And when these two, the Adjuster and the seraphim, reunite their personality trusts, the new individual constitutes the resurrection of the old personality, the survival of the evolving morontia identity of the soul. Such a reassociation of soul and Adjuster is quite properly called a resurrection, a reassembly of personality factors; but even this does not entirely explain the reappearance of the surviving personality. Though you will probably never understand the fact of such an inexplicable transaction, you will sometime experientially know the truth of it if you do not reject the plan of mortal survival. ~ The Urantia Book, (30:4. 8 )

These things happen in parallel; there is no 'waiting'; no period of being left alone without the loving watch care of seraphim and Adjuster.


Whether they happen in tandem or parallel is irrelevant. The fact is the two are separate events. The Seraphim furnishes a morontial corpus by raising the soul from the borderland of the physical and morontial (up) and TA furnishes identity when it descends (down). The two join on the mansion world and this constitutes resurrection of personality.

There are times when TA does not respond when Seraphims do. This is resurrection of the unjust. In fact, the technique of justice demands Seraphims with the furnished morontial form respond to the roll call, regardless of TA presence. Seraphims are unable to see visually TA until it indwells the mind. And then they can identify it as spirit luminosity. They cannot determine if the soul is the resurrection of just or unjust until roll call, after which the determination can be made.

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Last edited by brooklyn_born on Wed Sep 19, 2018 5:36 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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Agon D. Onter wrote:
BB, it's clear you have your mind made up and you're just going to twist and twist things to fit your narrative; so have fun.


Nope, not at all. I think you are not fully reading these phrases in TUB or glossing over key points in them.

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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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The text doesn't explicitly state that morontia forms are created for non-surviving persons but yes, you make a good point that they probably are created, especially since presumably a seraphim cannot know such status until the adjuster has spoken or not spoken. But isn't the question kind of backwards? It would be the soul that could possess some physical or morontia form if it were enlivened, wouldn't it, not the other way around?


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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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brooklyn_born wrote:
Brother, the event you refer to is a soul conception or an embryonic soul, not a morontial soul which is experienced at resurrection when the embryonic or conceived soul is resurrected.

At five years old when a child makes its first moral choice it signals the Adjuster the mind is ready for indwelling. It takes time and effort thereafter during the course of mortal life for mind and TA to engage one another to conceive or bring about in embryonic state a soul. What I just explained is the abbreviated version of the narrative of soul birth as presented by the Celestials.

Here is the revelation you are misrepresenting:

Quote:
108:2.1 (1186.8) Though the Adjusters... are not actually assigned until the human subjects make their first moral personality decision. The first moral choice of the human child... on the average, just prior to the sixth birthday.


Agon D. Onter wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
None of the references you posted reflect what you stated. An Adjuster and mind are antecedent to the soul; the two in liaison create a soul; the soul is embryonic during mortality and birthed at resurrection. In the mansion world, the soul is enveloped or expands into a morontial form awaiting its father, the Adjuster, to return and indwell it. As I pointed out to foV, the Seraphim projects an Adjuster-less soul and presents it in the resurrection Hall. Are you aware of this event?


Not true. The soul is born early in life - the Urantia Book estimates its appearance at about age five years on average. The first moral choice of the human mind marks the birth of the immortal soul, and signals the arrival of the Thought Adjuster.


This is utter nonsense! Read about the Psychic Circles! Read about fusion during material life on worlds of L&L! Poppycock Alert. Declarations which contradict the UB. There is some real misrepresenting going on for sure.

All souls are morontial...each and every single one of them. They have mind, awareness, and volition distinct from the material self...they are a child of the material self and TA, a new being altogether who can survive what its material parent cannot....but only in partnership with its other parent...the God Fragment.

The soul grows in selfhood by attaining each of the seven Circles. And can attain fusion on either side of material or morontia life. Material death is immaterial to soul. Or so we are taught.

What about Third Circlers compared to those who slumber awaiting dispensation resurrection? Your ideas and claims above are without fact or truth or merit and have no support in the text we study here. A student might ask more questions and make fewer false declarations...just sayin'.....

Bradly 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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brooklyn_born wrote:
The Seraphim is responsible for projecting the morontial form TA will inhabit:

Quote:
30:4.15 (341.5) ...The seraphim of assignment sponsors the new body, the morontia form, as the new life vehicle for the immortal soul and for the indwelling of the returned Adjuster... The assigned seraphim is the keeper of the surviving identity—the immortal soul—as far as it has evolved.


The Seraphim is responsible for transporting this newly made body to the resurrection Halls to reunite with TA, effecting resurrection of personality. In the below, however, TA does not return for the nonsurviving personality, so there is not a resurrection of personality. According to the author, this constitutes resurrection of the unjust. But that term, "resurrection of the unjust" is problematic as it implies still resurrection.

Resurrection is the coming together of parts that make up a whole, to wit, the personality. It begs the question, what is a resurrection of the just, if they too are raised from the dead. The authors are silent on how the newly created morontial body is disposed, if at all:

113:6.8 (1247.6)
Quote:
... personal or group guardians shall respond to the dispensational roll call in behalf of all nonsurviving personalities. The Adjusters of such nonsurvivors do not return, and when the rolls are called, the seraphim respond, but the Adjusters make no answer. This constitutes the “resurrection of the unjust,” in reality the formal recognition of the cessation of creature existence.



BB: You have been warned time and time again about the misrepresentation potential and risk by posting sippets of text rather than entire quotes and even multiple quotes to provide greater context.

30:4.15 (341.5) The physical body of mortal flesh is not a part of the reassembly of the sleeping survivor; the physical body has returned to dust. The seraphim of assignment sponsors the new body, the morontia form, as the new life vehicle for the immortal soul and for the indwelling of the returned Adjuster. The Adjuster is the custodian of the spirit transcript of the mind of the sleeping survivor. The assigned seraphim is the keeper of the surviving identity—the immortal soul—as far as it has evolved. And when these two, the Adjuster and the seraphim, reunite their personality trusts, the new individual constitutes the resurrection of the old personality, the survival of the evolving morontia identity of the soul. Such a reassociation of soul and Adjuster is quite properly called a resurrection, a reassembly of personality factors; but even this does not entirely explain the reappearance of the surviving personality. Though you will probably never understand the fact of such an inexplicable transaction, you will sometime experientially know the truth of it if you do not reject the plan of mortal survival.

Me here: There is no soul identity or personality....or existance without the TA and the reintegration of the "spirit transcript of the mind of the sleeping survivor".

30:4.19 (342.2) Morontia progression pertains to continuing advancement of intellect, spirit, and personality form. Survivors are still three-natured beings. Throughout the entire morontia experience they are wards of the local universe. The regime of the superuniverse does not function until the spirit career begins.


Me here: As to Paper 113, let us study that in more depth and expand your little snippet of text further, shall we?

113:6.1 (1246.5) Having told you something of the ministry of seraphim during natural life, I will endeavor to inform you about the conduct of the guardians of destiny at the time of the mortal dissolution of their human associates. Upon your death, your records, identity specifications, and the morontia entity of the human soul—conjointly evolved by the ministry of mortal mind and the divine Adjuster—are faithfully conserved by the destiny guardian together with all other values related to your future existence, everything that constitutes you, the real you, except the identity of continuing existence represented by the departing Adjuster and the actuality of personality.



Me here: So the Adjuster holds the "identity of continuing existence" and the "actuality of personality"....without which there can be no survival or resurrection of soul. No Adjuster? No identity, no personality, no self, no survival, no soul. Doesn't happen.


For those "Third Dayers" who resurrect, evidently not all of those souls survive or are immortal either (despite the declarations and claims of BB here and at other topics):

113:6.3 (1247.1) In case the human soul fails of survival after having received the assignment of a personal angel, the attending seraphim must proceed to the headquarters of the local universe, there to witness to the complete records of her complement as previously reported. Next she goes before the tribunals of the archangels, to be absolved from blame in the matter of the survival failure of her subject; and then she goes back to the worlds, again to be assigned to another mortal of ascending potentiality or to some other division of seraphic ministry.

113:6.5 (1247.3) The guardian seraphim is the custodial trustee of the survival values of mortal man’s slumbering soul as the absent Adjuster is the identity of such an immortal universe being. When these two collaborate in the resurrection halls of mansonia in conjunction with the newly fabricated morontia form, there occurs the reassembly of the constituent factors of the personality of the mortal ascender.

113:6.6 (1247.4) The Adjuster will identify you; the guardian seraphim will repersonalize you and then re-present you to the faithful Monitor of your earth days.

113:6.8 (1247.6) The technique of justice demands that personal or group guardians shall respond to the dispensational roll call in behalf of all nonsurviving personalities. The Adjusters of such nonsurvivors do not return, and when the rolls are called, the seraphim respond, but the Adjusters make no answer. This constitutes the “resurrection of the unjust,” in reality the formal recognition of the cessation of creature existence. This roll call of justice always immediately follows the roll call of mercy, the resurrection of the sleeping survivors. But these are matters which are of concern to none but the supreme and all-knowing Judges of survival values. Such problems of adjudication do not really concern us.

Me here: this is not a difficult or complex presentation of universe reality. I have no idea why anyone would make such declarative claims that directly contradict the Revelation. Strange.

8)


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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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BB wrote:

Quote:
Can the soul be possessed? Consider the following revelation:

Quote:
112:5.18 (1234.7) 2. The return of the Adjuster to the waiting morontia creature. The Adjuster is the eternal custodian of your ascending identity; your Monitor is the absolute assurance that you yourself and not another will occupy the morontia form created for your personality awakening. And the Adjuster will be present at your personality reassembly to take up once more the role of Paradise guide to your surviving self.


Can the morontial form be possessed? Why would a revelator even infer the possibility of an impossibility, if it is indeed an impossible event? It defies logic unless it is not an impossible event. The reader, I think, is left no alternative but to deduce a 'disadjustered' soul could be possessed. Remember the Seraphim raises the morontial soul and awaits the TA to respond. Are there walking Zombies among us? Michael Jackson tried to warn us in Thriller!!! :badgrin:


BB, I find this to be a little bit woo-woo...I don't find your assertion that the reader is left with "no alternative but to deduce a 'disadjustered' soul could be possessed" to be accurate. And then, your reference to "Thriller" seems unnecessarily provocative.

We have to remember that the revelation was delivered in a time when there was all sorts of "spiritism" going on; in fact, Dr Sadler was one who took great pains to debunk these practices. It could be that this statement that you cite might have been included to settle once and for all that there is nothing to fear from "spirit possession," even after death. Making that statement does not offer an alternative; it puts to rest any alternative, in my view, and gives the reader absolute assurance of the safety and surety of the Father's plan of ascension.

Even today, we have groups of people who - because they do not yet understand the nature of the soul, of evil, of spiritual life in general - still have primitive fears about spirit possession. Pop culture exploits this to the max - especially this time of year. Zombies and such are nothing more than primitive fears...

At Pentecost, Jesus put an end to any possibility of spirit possession on earth. I cannot for one minute entertain the idea that, if spirit possession is an impossibility here, that it would be any more possible after we leave here. Believing such a thing would seem to make the hope of resurrection rather chancy - maybe even unsafe. And that is not the case. We are lovingly cared for...

Quote:
112:3.5 After death the material body returns to the elemental world from which it was derived, but two nonmaterial factors of surviving personality persist: The pre-existent Thought Adjuster, with the memory transcription of the mortal career, proceeds to Divinington; and there also remains, in the custody of the destiny guardian, the immortal morontia soul of the deceased human. These phases and forms of soul, these once kinetic but now static formulas of identity, are essential to repersonalization on the morontia worlds; and it is the reunion of the Adjuster and the soul that reassembles the surviving personality, that reconsciousizes you at the time of the morontia awakening.

112:3.6 For those who do not have personal seraphic guardians, the group custodians faithfully and efficiently perform the same service of identity safekeeping and personality resurrection. The seraphim are indispensable to the reassembly of personality.


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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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maryjo606, we're told revelators draw upon I think about 1000 human concepts to produce the 5th epochal revelation. You don't think the revelators availed themselves of the concept of spiritism and enlarged it? And are there any concepts in the revelation without human roots?


maryjo606 wrote:
BB wrote:

Quote:
Can the soul be possessed? Consider the following revelation:

Quote:
112:5.18 (1234.7) 2. The return of the Adjuster to the waiting morontia creature. The Adjuster is the eternal custodian of your ascending identity; your Monitor is the absolute assurance that you yourself and not another will occupy the morontia form created for your personality awakening. And the Adjuster will be present at your personality reassembly to take up once more the role of Paradise guide to your surviving self.


Can the morontial form be possessed? Why would a revelator even infer the possibility of an impossibility, if it is indeed an impossible event? It defies logic unless it is not an impossible event. The reader, I think, is left no alternative but to deduce a 'disadjustered' soul could be possessed. Remember the Seraphim raises the morontial soul and awaits the TA to respond. Are there walking Zombies among us? Michael Jackson tried to warn us in Thriller!!! :badgrin:


BB, I find this to be a little bit woo-woo...I don't find your assertion that the reader is left with "no alternative but to deduce a 'disadjustered' soul could be possessed" to be accurate. And then, your reference to "Thriller" seems unnecessarily provocative.

We have to remember that the revelation was delivered in a time when there was all sorts of "spiritism" going on; in fact, Dr Sadler was one who took great pains to debunk these practices. It could be that this statement that you cite might have been included to settle once and for all that there is nothing to fear from "spirit possession," even after death. Making that statement does not offer an alternative; it puts to rest any alternative, in my view, and gives the reader absolute assurance of the safety and surety of the Father's plan of ascension.

Even today, we have groups of people who - because they do not yet understand the nature of the soul, of evil, of spiritual life in general - still have primitive fears about spirit possession. Pop culture exploits this to the max - especially this time of year. Zombies and such are nothing more than primitive fears...

At Pentecost, Jesus put an end to any possibility of spirit possession on earth. I cannot for one minute entertain the idea that, if spirit possession is an impossibility here, that it would be any more possible after we leave here. Believing such a thing would seem to make the hope of resurrection rather chancy - maybe even unsafe. And that is not the case. We are lovingly cared for...

Quote:
112:3.5 After death the material body returns to the elemental world from which it was derived, but two nonmaterial factors of surviving personality persist: The pre-existent Thought Adjuster, with the memory transcription of the mortal career, proceeds to Divinington; and there also remains, in the custody of the destiny guardian, the immortal morontia soul of the deceased human. These phases and forms of soul, these once kinetic but now static formulas of identity, are essential to repersonalization on the morontia worlds; and it is the reunion of the Adjuster and the soul that reassembles the surviving personality, that reconsciousizes you at the time of the morontia awakening.

112:3.6 For those who do not have personal seraphic guardians, the group custodians faithfully and efficiently perform the same service of identity safekeeping and personality resurrection. The seraphim are indispensable to the reassembly of personality.

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Last edited by brooklyn_born on Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:35 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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maryjo606 wrote:
I cannot for one minute entertain the idea that, if spirit possession is an impossibility here, that it would be any more possible after we leave here. Believing such a thing would seem to make the hope of resurrection rather chancy - maybe even unsafe. And that is not the case. We are lovingly cared for...


What about the "resurrection of the unjust"? Does not that make resurrection chancy or maybe even unsafe, though we are lovingly cared for?

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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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brooklyn_born wrote:
maryjo606, we're told revelators drew from I think about 1000 human concepts to produce the 5th epochal revelation. You don't think the revelators availed themselves of the concept of spiritism and enlarged it? And are there any concepts in the revelation without human roots?


maryjo606 wrote:
BB wrote:

Quote:
Can the soul be possessed? Consider the following revelation:

Quote:
112:5.18 (1234.7) 2. The return of the Adjuster to the waiting morontia creature. The Adjuster is the eternal custodian of your ascending identity; your Monitor is the absolute assurance that you yourself and not another will occupy the morontia form created for your personality awakening. And the Adjuster will be present at your personality reassembly to take up once more the role of Paradise guide to your surviving self.


Can the morontial form be possessed? Why would a revelator even infer the possibility of an impossibility, if it is indeed an impossible event? It defies logic unless it is not an impossible event. The reader, I think, is left no alternative but to deduce a 'disadjustered' soul could be possessed. Remember the Seraphim raises the morontial soul and awaits the TA to respond. Are there walking Zombies among us? Michael Jackson tried to warn us in Thriller!!! :badgrin:


BB, I find this to be a little bit woo-woo...I don't find your assertion that the reader is left with "no alternative but to deduce a 'disadjustered' soul could be possessed" to be accurate. And then, your reference to "Thriller" seems unnecessarily provocative.

We have to remember that the revelation was delivered in a time when there was all sorts of "spiritism" going on; in fact, Dr Sadler was one who took great pains to debunk these practices. It could be that this statement that you cite might have been included to settle once and for all that there is nothing to fear from "spirit possession," even after death. Making that statement does not offer an alternative; it puts to rest any alternative, in my view, and gives the reader absolute assurance of the safety and surety of the Father's plan of ascension.

Even today, we have groups of people who - because they do not yet understand the nature of the soul, of evil, of spiritual life in general - still have primitive fears about spirit possession. Pop culture exploits this to the max - especially this time of year. Zombies and such are nothing more than primitive fears...

At Pentecost, Jesus put an end to any possibility of spirit possession on earth. I cannot for one minute entertain the idea that, if spirit possession is an impossibility here, that it would be any more possible after we leave here. Believing such a thing would seem to make the hope of resurrection rather chancy - maybe even unsafe. And that is not the case. We are lovingly cared for...

Quote:
112:3.5 After death the material body returns to the elemental world from which it was derived, but two nonmaterial factors of surviving personality persist: The pre-existent Thought Adjuster, with the memory transcription of the mortal career, proceeds to Divinington; and there also remains, in the custody of the destiny guardian, the immortal morontia soul of the deceased human. These phases and forms of soul, these once kinetic but now static formulas of identity, are essential to repersonalization on the morontia worlds; and it is the reunion of the Adjuster and the soul that reassembles the surviving personality, that reconsciousizes you at the time of the morontia awakening.

112:3.6 For those who do not have personal seraphic guardians, the group custodians faithfully and efficiently perform the same service of identity safekeeping and personality resurrection. The seraphim are indispensable to the reassembly of personality.



The answer to your question lies within the very quote you reference BB:

0:12.11 (16.8) In formulating the succeeding presentations having to do with the portrayal of the character of the Universal Father and the nature of his Paradise associates, together with an attempted description of the perfect central universe and the encircling seven superuniverses, we are to be guided by the mandate of the superuniverse rulers which directs that we shall, in all our efforts to reveal truth and co-ordinate essential knowledge, give preference to the highest existing human concepts pertaining to the subjects to be presented. We may resort to pure revelation only when the concept of presentation has had no adequate previous expression by the human mind.

0:12.12 (17.1) Successive planetary revelations of divine truth invariably embrace the highest existing concepts of spiritual values as a part of the new and enhanced co-ordination of planetary knowledge. Accordingly, in making these presentations about God and his universe associates, we have selected as the basis of these papers more than one thousand human concepts representing the highest and most advanced planetary knowledge of spiritual values and universe meanings. Wherein these human concepts, assembled from the God-knowing mortals of the past and the present, are inadequate to portray the truth as we are directed to reveal it, we will unhesitatingly supplement them, for this purpose drawing upon our own superior knowledge of the reality and divinity of the Paradise Deities and their transcendent residential universe.


121:8.13 (1343.2) The memoranda which I have collected, and from which I have prepared this narrative of the life and teachings of Jesus—aside from the memory of the record of the Apostle Andrew—embrace thought gems and superior concepts of Jesus’ teachings assembled from more than two thousand human beings who have lived on earth from the days of Jesus down to the time of the inditing of these revelations, more correctly restatements. The revelatory permission has been utilized only when the human record and human concepts failed to supply an adequate thought pattern. My revelatory commission forbade me to resort to extrahuman sources of either information or expression until such a time as I could testify that I had failed in my efforts to find the required conceptual expression in purely human sources.




Ghost fears, speaking to the dead, the undead, the walking dead, etc. etc. are falsehoods BB and the UB says are mere superstitious inventions and fantasies of primitive minds. You may wish to consider that factual and truthful declaration of the authors. Just sayin'...……..woo woo indeed!! :idea: :!: :wink:


brooklyn_born wrote:
maryjo606 wrote:
I cannot for one minute entertain the idea that, if spirit possession is an impossibility here, that it would be any more possible after we leave here. Believing such a thing would seem to make the hope of resurrection rather chancy - maybe even unsafe. And that is not the case. We are lovingly cared for...


What about the "resurrection of the unjust"? Does not that make resurrection chancy or maybe even unsafe, though we are lovingly cared for?


Asked and answered...doesn't happen!! The resurrection of the unjust is, in reality, the formal recognition of the cessation of existence. Come on Dude...really??!! You might wish to consider the self destruction and cessation of one's own credibility. Just sayin'....

:roll:

Forgot...you are not reading my posts....pity...lots of good quotes there! 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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fanofVan wrote:


The answer to your question lies within the very quote you reference BB:

0:12.11 (16.8) In formulating the succeeding presentations having to do with the portrayal of the character of the Universal Father and the nature of his Paradise associates, together with an attempted description of the perfect central universe and the encircling seven superuniverses, we are to be guided by the mandate of the superuniverse rulers which directs that we shall, in all our efforts to reveal truth and co-ordinate essential knowledge, give preference to the highest existing human concepts pertaining to the subjects to be presented. We may resort to pure revelation only when the concept of presentation has had no adequate previous expression by the human mind.

0:12.12 (17.1) Successive planetary revelations of divine truth invariably embrace the highest existing concepts of spiritual values as a part of the new and enhanced co-ordination of planetary knowledge. Accordingly, in making these presentations about God and his universe associates, we have selected as the basis of these papers more than one thousand human concepts representing the highest and most advanced planetary knowledge of spiritual values and universe meanings. Wherein these human concepts, assembled from the God-knowing mortals of the past and the present, are inadequate to portray the truth as we are directed to reveal it, we will unhesitatingly supplement them, for this purpose drawing upon our own superior knowledge of the reality and divinity of the Paradise Deities and their transcendent residential universe.


121:8.13 (1343.2) The memoranda which I have collected, and from which I have prepared this narrative of the life and teachings of Jesus—aside from the memory of the record of the Apostle Andrew—embrace thought gems and superior concepts of Jesus’ teachings assembled from more than two thousand human beings who have lived on earth from the days of Jesus down to the time of the inditing of these revelations, more correctly restatements. The revelatory permission has been utilized only when the human record and human concepts failed to supply an adequate thought pattern. My revelatory commission forbade me to resort to extrahuman sources of either information or expression until such a time as I could testify that I had failed in my efforts to find the required conceptual expression in purely human sources.




Ghost fears, speaking to the dead, the undead, the walking dead, etc. etc. are falsehoods BB and the UB says are mere superstitious inventions and fantasies of primitive minds. You may wish to consider that factual and truthful declaration of the authors. Just sayin'...……..woo woo indeed!! :idea: :!: :wink:


brooklyn_born wrote:
maryjo606 wrote:
I cannot for one minute entertain the idea that, if spirit possession is an impossibility here, that it would be any more possible after we leave here. Believing such a thing would seem to make the hope of resurrection rather chancy - maybe even unsafe. And that is not the case. We are lovingly cared for...


What about the "resurrection of the unjust"? Does not that make resurrection chancy or maybe even unsafe, though we are lovingly cared for?


Asked and answered...doesn't happen!! The resurrection of the unjust is, in reality, the formal recognition of the cessation of existence. Come on Dude...really??!! You might wish to consider the self destruction and cessation of one's own credibility. Just sayin'....

:roll:

Forgot...you are not reading my posts....pity...lots of good quotes there! 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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Riktare wrote:
The text doesn't explicitly state that morontia forms are created for non-surviving persons but yes, you make a good point that they probably are created, especially since presumably a seraphim cannot know such status until the adjuster has spoken or not spoken.


Bingo! But here is the thing, we are told the Seraphims raise a morontial-soul prior to Adjuster bestowal on the Mansion world. Also we know dormant in the soul are characteristics of the mortal personality Adjuster's energize upon bestowal at resurrection.

I believe it is safe to say the morontial form, which hosts superadjutant mind and soul can exists without an adjuster; an Adjuster-abandoned individual is an example of someone who is alive without an adjuster. But from the perspective of the cosmos, this being is dead as it is without the original "personality." What is personality then?

per·son·al·i·ty
/pərsəˈnalədē/
noun
1. the combination of characteristics or qualities that form an individual's distinctive character. "she had a sunny personality that was very engaging"

In China they are field testing a social credit score system where individuals are scored based on their social, financial and other kinds of habits. The more the individual yields his or her personal behavior to the group norms, the higher the social credit score received and vice-versa. In essence, Chinese citizens are expected to forgo their identity in favor of the collective identity; this is death of the individual. And this system is more than likely going global as global engineers push for globalization. Apple Inc. already is toying with a similar system that they've downscaled. It is called the Trust Score.
Sounds like a "draconian" system.

Quote:
But isn't the question kind of backwards? It would be the soul that could possess some physical or morontia form if it were enlivened, wouldn't it, not the other way around?


The title regrettably is poorly worded. It needs to be tweaked, admittedly. The morontial form already houses a soul at the time of resurrection awaiting an endowment of TA; remember, the Seraphims et al. are entrusted with sponsoring a new life vehicle for the soul and Adjuster. It is the mind that can be violated without an indwelling and this happened in the past (77:7.5). The soul is already inserted into the morontial form by the Seraphims. So I do not see a soul invasion. However, the 'resurrection of the unjust' suggests to me another Father fragment or indwelling device can take up residence in the mind and that the soul grows a new personality. This is what I extrapolate from the revelation.

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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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You can quote revelations till the cows come home but it means nothing to me if I do not know how you interpret them. Hell! I can train monkey to cut and paste quotes! foV you have a habit of spamming threads with revelation quotes without an interpretation. I wind up skipping over those posts. BTW, I took you off time out :badgrin:


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Forgot...you are not reading my posts....pity...lots of good quotes there! 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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BB wrote, "However, the 'resurrection of the unjust' suggests to me another Father fragment or indwelling device can take up residence in the mind and that the soul grows a new personality. This is what I extrapolate from the revelation."

Let's do a thought experiment and play as if it were true (I don't think it is). If this were true, WHY would the Father wish to entrust a fragment in the mind of a non-survivor? One who has made the choice to cease existing? What would be the point of doing that? Also, I do not believe that personality can be "grown" by the soul. Personality is exclusively bestowed by the Father.


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He is the Father of personalities so he is giving the soul a new personality. This is not a a second chance for the 'old personality.' That personality is no more. I don't recall saying soul grows personality. But if I did, I stand corrected.


Agon D. Onter wrote:
BB wrote, "However, the 'resurrection of the unjust' suggests to me another Father fragment or indwelling device can take up residence in the mind and that the soul grows a new personality. This is what I extrapolate from the revelation."

Let's do a thought experiment and play as if it were true (I don't think it is). If this were true, WHY would the Father wish to entrust a fragment in the mind of a non-survivor? One who has made the choice to cease existing? What would be the point of doing that? Also, I do not believe that personality can be "grown" by the soul. Personality is exclusively bestowed by the Father.

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