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 Post subject: Soul possession?
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Mods if this topic is too controversial in nature for this forum, by all means do what is needed. But I think it merely pushes the envelope just a tad bit, so please bear with it :badgrin:

Can the soul be possessed? Consider the following revelation:

Quote:
112:5.18 (1234.7) 2. The return of the Adjuster to the waiting morontia creature. The Adjuster is the eternal custodian of your ascending identity; your Monitor is the absolute assurance that you yourself and not another will occupy the morontia form created for your personality awakening. And the Adjuster will be present at your personality reassembly to take up once more the role of Paradise guide to your surviving self.


Can the morontial form be possessed? Why would a revelator even infer the possibility of an impossibility, if it is indeed an impossible event? It defies logic unless it is not an impossible event. The reader, I think, is left no alternative but to deduce a 'disadjustered' soul could be possessed. Remember the Seraphim raises the morontial soul and awaits the TA to respond. Are there walking Zombies among us? Michael Jackson tried to warn us in Thriller!!! :badgrin:

This topic has the potential of opening up discussions not for the faint of heart so I digress.

Mods, the decision is yours if it can remain or be removed to Abner's corner.

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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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What's controversial about an impossibility?

:wink:

The text gives an absolute assurance against the very possibility you hope for here. Can't happen. Don't happen. Hasn't happened. Period. Fear Not!


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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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The text gives an absolute assurance, providing the soul is indwelt by the adjuster; your MONITOR is the absolute assurance, not your morontia form. The latter is vulnerable without an adjuster which is what the author infers. The seraphim, the ones who project the form, guard it.

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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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Without our Adjuster, what morontial form do you discuss? Text please.


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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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The Seraphim is responsible for projecting the morontial form TA will inhabit:

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30:4.15 (341.5) ...The seraphim of assignment sponsors the new body, the morontia form, as the new life vehicle for the immortal soul and for the indwelling of the returned Adjuster... The assigned seraphim is the keeper of the surviving identity—the immortal soul—as far as it has evolved.


The Seraphim is responsible for transporting this newly made body to the resurrection Halls to reunite with TA, effecting resurrection of personality. In the below, however, TA does not return for the nonsurviving personality, so there is not a resurrection of personality. According to the author, this constitutes resurrection of the unjust. But that term, "resurrection of the unjust" is problematic as it implies still resurrection.

Resurrection is the coming together of parts that make up a whole, to wit, the personality. It begs the question, what is a resurrection of the just, if they too are raised from the dead. The authors are silent on how the newly created morontial body is disposed, if at all:

113:6.8 (1247.6)
Quote:
... personal or group guardians shall respond to the dispensational roll call in behalf of all nonsurviving personalities. The Adjusters of such nonsurvivors do not return, and when the rolls are called, the seraphim respond, but the Adjusters make no answer. This constitutes the “resurrection of the unjust,” in reality the formal recognition of the cessation of creature existence.

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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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"...the “resurrection of the unjust,” in reality the formal recognition of the cessation of creature existence."


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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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fanofVan wrote:
"...the “resurrection of the unjust,” in reality the formal recognition of the cessation of creature existence."



What is recognized as cessation of creature existence? PERSONALITY. A non-returning adjuster to mind constitutes cessation of creature existence, i.e., personality. It still does not explain the morontial-soul form (which includes a mind) Seraphim presents at the resurrection Hall for indwelling. What happens to it when not indwelt by an adjuster? Does it vanish into thin air, poof!? Eaten up by a lurking one-eyed, morontial eating monster? Does the Seraphim whisks it to a morontial cemetery or crematory? Is it de-materialized like the Adamites?

The revelation above does not address this issue. It only addresses the death of personality, not the morontial form projected by the guardian angels.

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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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If the Supreme Being cannot gain the experience of evolution through you, will He do so with another.... YOU? I am putting it out there for pondering, nothing more, nothing less.

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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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BB wrote: "A non-returning adjuster to mind constitutes cessation of creature existence, i.e., personality. It still does not explain the morontial-soul form (which includes a mind) Seraphim presents at the resurrection Hall for indwelling. What happens to it when not indwelt by an adjuster?"

BB, there is no soul without the Adjuster.

Quote:
111:2.4 (1218.2) There are three and not two factors in the evolutionary creation of such an immortal soul. These three antecedents of the morontia human soul are:

111:2.5 (1218.3) 1. The human mind and all cosmic influences antecedent thereto and impinging thereon.

111:2.6 (1218.4) 2. The divine spirit indwelling this human mind and all potentials inherent in such a fragment of absolute spirituality together with all associated spiritual influences and factors in human life.

111:2.7 (1218.5) 3. The relationship between material mind and divine spirit, which connotes a value and carries a meaning not found in either of the contributing factors to such an association. The reality of this unique relationship is neither material nor spiritual but morontial. It is the soul.


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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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111:3.7 (1219.6) In so far as man’s evolving morontia soul becomes permeated by truth, beauty, and goodness as the value-realization of God-consciousness, such a resultant being becomes indestructible. If there is no survival of eternal values in the evolving soul of man, then mortal existence is without meaning, and life itself is a tragic illusion. But it is forever true: What you begin in time you will assuredly finish in eternity—if it is worth finishing.


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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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None of the references you posted reflect what you stated. An Adjuster and mind are antecedent to the soul; the two in liaison create a soul; the soul is embryonic during mortality and birthed at resurrection. In the mansion world, the soul is enveloped or expands into a morontial form awaiting its father, the Adjuster, to return and indwell it. As I pointed out to foV, the Seraphim projects an Adjuster-less soul and presents it in the resurrection Hall. Are you aware of this event?


Agon D. Onter wrote:
BB wrote: "A non-returning adjuster to mind constitutes cessation of creature existence, i.e., personality. It still does not explain the morontial-soul form (which includes a mind) Seraphim presents at the resurrection Hall for indwelling. What happens to it when not indwelt by an adjuster?"

BB, there is no soul without the Adjuster.

Quote:
111:2.4 (1218.2) There are three and not two factors in the evolutionary creation of such an immortal soul. These three antecedents of the morontia human soul are:

111:2.5 (1218.3) 1. The human mind and all cosmic influences antecedent thereto and impinging thereon.

111:2.6 (1218.4) 2. The divine spirit indwelling this human mind and all potentials inherent in such a fragment of absolute spirituality together with all associated spiritual influences and factors in human life.

111:2.7 (1218.5) 3. The relationship between material mind and divine spirit, which connotes a value and carries a meaning not found in either of the contributing factors to such an association. The reality of this unique relationship is neither material nor spiritual but morontial. It is the soul.

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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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This reference pertains to mortality, the here-and-now, not the after-life.


Agon D. Onter wrote:
111:3.7 (1219.6) In so far as man’s evolving morontia soul becomes permeated by truth, beauty, and goodness as the value-realization of God-consciousness, such a resultant being becomes indestructible. If there is no survival of eternal values in the evolving soul of man, then mortal existence is without meaning, and life itself is a tragic illusion. But it is forever true: What you begin in time you will assuredly finish in eternity—if it is worth finishing.

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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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brooklyn_born wrote:
None of the references you posted reflect what you stated. An Adjuster and mind are antecedent to the soul; the two in liaison create a soul; the soul is embryonic during mortality and birthed at resurrection. In the mansion world, the soul is enveloped or expands into a morontial form awaiting its father, the Adjuster, to return and indwell it. As I pointed out to foV, the Seraphim projects an Adjuster-less soul and presents it in the resurrection Hall. Are you aware of this event?


Not true. The soul is born early in life - the Urantia Book estimates its appearance at about age five years on average. The first moral choice of the human mind marks the birth of the immortal soul, and signals the arrival of the Thought Adjuster.


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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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brooklyn_born wrote:
Remember the Seraphim raises the morontial soul and awaits the TA to respond.


I do not see anything about 'raising' or 'awaiting the TA to respond'.

Quote:
The physical body of mortal flesh is not a part of the reassembly of the sleeping survivor; the physical body has returned to dust. The seraphim of assignment sponsors the new body, the morontia form, as the new life vehicle for the immortal soul and for the indwelling of the returned Adjuster. The Adjuster is the custodian of the spirit transcript of the mind of the sleeping survivor. The assigned seraphim is the keeper of the surviving identity—the immortal soul—as far as it has evolved. And when these two, the Adjuster and the seraphim, reunite their personality trusts, the new individual constitutes the resurrection of the old personality, the survival of the evolving morontia identity of the soul. Such a reassociation of soul and Adjuster is quite properly called a resurrection, a reassembly of personality factors; but even this does not entirely explain the reappearance of the surviving personality. Though you will probably never understand the fact of such an inexplicable transaction, you will sometime experientially know the truth of it if you do not reject the plan of mortal survival. ~ The Urantia Book, (30:4. 8 )


These things happen in parallel; there is no 'waiting'; no period of being left alone without the loving watch care of seraphim and Adjuster.


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 Post subject: Re: Soul possession?
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Brother, the event you refer to is a soul conception or an embryonic soul, not a morontial soul which is experienced at resurrection when the embryonic or conceived soul is resurrected.

At five years old when a child makes its first moral choice it signals the Adjuster the mind is ready for indwelling. It takes time and effort thereafter during the course of mortal life for mind and TA to engage one another to conceive or bring about in embryonic state a soul. What I just explained is the abbreviated version of the narrative of soul birth as presented by the Celestials.

Here is the revelation you are misrepresenting:

Quote:
108:2.1 (1186.8) Though the Adjusters... are not actually assigned until the human subjects make their first moral personality decision. The first moral choice of the human child... on the average, just prior to the sixth birthday.


Agon D. Onter wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
None of the references you posted reflect what you stated. An Adjuster and mind are antecedent to the soul; the two in liaison create a soul; the soul is embryonic during mortality and birthed at resurrection. In the mansion world, the soul is enveloped or expands into a morontial form awaiting its father, the Adjuster, to return and indwell it. As I pointed out to foV, the Seraphim projects an Adjuster-less soul and presents it in the resurrection Hall. Are you aware of this event?


Not true. The soul is born early in life - the Urantia Book estimates its appearance at about age five years on average. The first moral choice of the human mind marks the birth of the immortal soul, and signals the arrival of the Thought Adjuster.

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