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I do not think you are addressing my point. The personality, in morontial form, after surviving mortal death, can yet reject the eternal career, on any given mansion world, pre-fusion. If the personality chooses to do so, what happens to the emerged soul which we are told is IMMORTAL?

Immortal soul:

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0:5.10 (8.10) 4. Soul. The soul of man is an experiential acquirement. As a mortal creature chooses to “do the will of the Father in heaven,” so the indwelling spirit becomes the father of a new reality in human experience. The mortal and material mind is the mother of this same emerging reality. The substance of this new reality is neither material nor spiritual—it is morontial. This is the emerging and immortal soul which is destined to survive mortal death and begin the Paradise ascension.

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In order to be immortal, the soul must fuse with the Adjuster. A "pre-fused" soul is not immortal.

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Thought Adjuster fusion imparts eternal actualities to personality which were previously only potential. Among these new endowments may be mentioned: fixation of divinity quality, past-eternity experience and memory, immortality, and a phase of qualified potential absoluteness. ~ The Urantia Book, (40:7.1)

Has the triumphant Adjuster won personality by the magnificent service to humanity, or has the valiant human acquired immortality through sincere efforts to achieve Adjusterlikeness? ~ The Urantia Book, (112:7.9)


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But mortal mind without immortal spirit cannot survive. The mind of man is mortal; only the bestowed spirit is immortal. Survival is dependent on spiritualization by the ministry of the Adjuster—on the birth and evolution of the immortal soul; at least, there must not have developed an antagonism towards the Adjuster's mission of effecting the spiritual transformation of the material mind. ~ The Urantia Book, (49:4.9)


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Fusion imparts immortality to personality, not soul. Soul is immortal by nature.



Agon D. Onter wrote:
In order to be immortal, the soul must fuse with the Adjuster. A "pre-fused" soul is not immortal.

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Thought Adjuster fusion imparts eternal actualities to personality which were previously only potential. Among these new endowments may be mentioned: fixation of divinity quality, past-eternity experience and memory, immortality, and a phase of qualified potential absoluteness. ~ The Urantia Book, (40:7.1)

Has the triumphant Adjuster won personality by the magnificent service to humanity, or has the valiant human acquired immortality through sincere efforts to achieve Adjusterlikeness? ~ The Urantia Book, (112:7.9)

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But we are NOT talking about mortal mind. This is post-mortem mind, that being morontial mind.

Agon D. Onter wrote:
But mortal mind without immortal spirit cannot survive. The mind of man is mortal; only the bestowed spirit is immortal. Survival is dependent on spiritualization by the ministry of the Adjuster—on the birth and evolution of the immortal soul; at least, there must not have developed an antagonism towards the Adjuster's mission of effecting the spiritual transformation of the material mind. ~ The Urantia Book, (49:4.9)

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Well yes but morontial mind is BY DEFINITION mind that is indwelt by an Adjuster. That's what that UB quote affirms.


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Agon D. Onter wrote:
Well yes but morontial mind is BY DEFINITION mind that is indwelt by an Adjuster. That's what that UB quote affirms.


Brother, you said MORTAL mind. MORTAL and MORONTIAL mind are NOT the same. Are you aware of this?

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brooklyn_born wrote:
Agon D. Onter wrote:
Well yes but morontial mind is BY DEFINITION mind that is indwelt by an Adjuster. That's what that UB quote affirms.


Brother, you said MORTAL mind. MORTAL and MORONTIAL mind are NOT the same. Are you aware of this?


No, I am not aware of that. Mortal mind is to tadpole what morontial mind is to frog. They are developing phases of the evolutionary process for an organism; so the organism remains the same but its abilities and qualities change/ evolve if given sufficient time and appropriate conditions for evolution. Mortal mind is the material mind that, with the influence of the Adjuster and Adjutant Spirits, plus recognition of experiences of truth beauty and goodness, becomes gradually more spiritualized. This evolution of mind progresses from mortal/ material mind to morontial mind.

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111:1.5 (1216.6) Mortal mind is a temporary intellect system loaned to human beings for use during a material lifetime, and as they use this mind, they are either accepting or rejecting the potential of eternal existence. Mind is about all you have of universe reality that is subject to your will, and the soul—the morontia self—will faithfully portray the harvest of the temporal decisions which the mortal self is making. Human consciousness rests gently upon the electrochemical mechanism below and delicately touches the spirit-morontia energy system above. Of neither of these two systems is the human being ever completely conscious in his mortal life; therefore must he work in mind, of which he is conscious. And it is not so much what mind comprehends as what mind desires to comprehend that insures survival; it is not so much what mind is like as what mind is striving to be like that constitutes spirit identification. It is not so much that man is conscious of God as that man yearns for God that results in universe ascension. What you are today is not so important as what you are becoming day by day and in eternity.



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P1236:5, 112:6.7 Mortal mind, prior to death, is self-consciously independent of the Adjuster presence; adjutant mind needs only the associated material-energy pattern to enable it to operate. But the morontia soul, being superadjutant, does not retain self-consciousness without the Adjuster when deprived of the material-mind mechanism. This evolving soul does, however, possess a continuing character derived from the decisions of its former associated adjutant mind, and this character becomes active memory when the patterns thereof are energized by the returning Adjuster.


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They're not the same. Superadjutants hook into morontial mind. Adjutants hook into mortal mind; these are completely different mind ministries. The only thing you carry over from mind to mind are character traits that survive the transition death to afterlife (TA energies those traits.)

I encourage you to read the mind papers. It contains a wealth of info.



Agon D. Onter wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
Agon D. Onter wrote:
Well yes but morontial mind is BY DEFINITION mind that is indwelt by an Adjuster. That's what that UB quote affirms.


Brother, you said MORTAL mind. MORTAL and MORONTIAL mind are NOT the same. Are you aware of this?


No, I am not aware of that. Mortal mind is to tadpole what morontial mind is to frog. Are they the same? They are different phases of the evolutionary process for an organism; so the organism remains the same but its abilities and qualities change/ evolve. Mortal mind is the material mind that, with the influence of the Adjuster and Adjutant Spirits, plus recognition of experiences of truth beauty and goodness, becomes gradually more spiritualized. This evolution of mind progresses from mortal/ material mind to morontial mind.

Quote:
111:1.5 (1216.6) Mortal mind is a temporary intellect system loaned to human beings for use during a material lifetime, and as they use this mind, they are either accepting or rejecting the potential of eternal existence. Mind is about all you have of universe reality that is subject to your will, and the soul—the morontia self—will faithfully portray the harvest of the temporal decisions which the mortal self is making. Human consciousness rests gently upon the electrochemical mechanism below and delicately touches the spirit-morontia energy system above. Of neither of these two systems is the human being ever completely conscious in his mortal life; therefore must he work in mind, of which he is conscious. And it is not so much what mind comprehends as what mind desires to comprehend that insures survival; it is not so much what mind is like as what mind is striving to be like that constitutes spirit identification. It is not so much that man is conscious of God as that man yearns for God that results in universe ascension. What you are today is not so important as what you are becoming day by day and in eternity.



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P1236:5, 112:6.7 Mortal mind, prior to death, is self-consciously independent of the Adjuster presence; adjutant mind needs only the associated material-energy pattern to enable it to operate. But the morontia soul, being superadjutant, does not retain self-consciousness without the Adjuster when deprived of the material-mind mechanism. This evolving soul does, however, possess a continuing character derived from the decisions of its former associated adjutant mind, and this character becomes active memory when the patterns thereof are energized by the returning Adjuster.

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Superadjutant mind ministry can occur during mortal life; not just after mortal death. (Note I say "can"; not 'does' or 'always'.)

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6. The Seven Psychic Circles
110:6.1 (1209.1) The sum total of personality realization on a material world is contained within the successive conquest of the seven psychic circles of mortal potentiality. Entrance upon the seventh circle marks the beginning of true human personality function. Completion of the first circle denotes the relative maturity of the mortal being. Though the traversal of the seven circles of cosmic growth does not equal fusion with the Adjuster, the mastery of these circles marks the attainment of those steps which are preliminary to Adjuster fusion.



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110:6.21 (1211.6) The seven circles embrace mortal experience extending from the highest purely animal level to the lowest actual contactual morontia level of self-consciousness as a personality experience. The mastery of the first cosmic circle signalizes the attainment of premorontia mortal maturity and marks the termination of the conjoint ministry of the adjutant mind-spirits as an exclusive influence of mind action in the human personality. Beyond the first circle, mind becomes increasingly akin to the intelligence of the morontia stage of evolution, the conjoined ministry of the cosmic mind and the superadjutant endowment of the Creative Spirit of a local universe.


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Come on, dude! You accuse me of twisting and that is what you're doing. No where it states that. It says, and I quote:

"... mind becomes increasingly akin to the intelligence of the morontia stage of evolution, the conjoined ministry of the cosmic mind and the superadjutant endowment "

Do you know what "akin" means?



Agon D. Onter wrote:
Superadjutant mind ministry can occur during mortal life; not just after mortal death. (Note I say "can"; not "does" or "always".)

Quote:
6. The Seven Psychic Circles
110:6.1 (1209.1) The sum total of personality realization on a material world is contained within the successive conquest of the seven psychic circles of mortal potentiality. Entrance upon the seventh circle marks the beginning of true human personality function. Completion of the first circle denotes the relative maturity of the mortal being. Though the traversal of the seven circles of cosmic growth does not equal fusion with the Adjuster, the mastery of these circles marks the attainment of those steps which are preliminary to Adjuster fusion.



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110:6.21 (1211.6) The seven circles embrace mortal experience extending from the highest purely animal level to the lowest actual contactual morontia level of self-consciousness as a personality experience. The mastery of the first cosmic circle signalizes the attainment of premorontia mortal maturity and marks the termination of the conjoint ministry of the adjutant mind-spirits as an exclusive influence of mind action in the human personality. Beyond the first circle, mind becomes increasingly akin to the intelligence of the morontia stage of evolution, the conjoined ministry of the cosmic mind and the superadjutant endowment of the Creative Spirit of a local universe.

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So I wonder your claim as to the purpose, value, and destiny of dis-Adjustered and dis-associated souls (which do not exist by the way - a personal construct and fantasy contradicted by the UB)? No fusion, no finality, no universe progression from Mansion Worlds to System HQ to Constellation to Minor and Major Sectors to Nebadon capital to Super Universe to Havona and Finality? Souls aimless and purposeless...but somehow eternal? Please....

The UB teaches that only by the TA can the soul attain eternity.

The term "immortal soul" is in contrast to the temporal parent self and identity OF the parent of soul. The TA never fails and never abandons its child, the soul...unless and until soul has chosen its own annhilation by free will conscious choice either in this life or the next.

It may be conceivable that all souls born survive to fusion and eternity but quotes have already been posted that clearly say otherwise...it is not conceivable that souls survive without fusion with the Spirit...of the Father or the Son or the Mother.


Last edited by fanofVan on Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:49 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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brooklyn_born wrote:
Come on, dude! You accuse me of twisting and that is what you're doing. No where it states that. It says, and I quote:

"... mind becomes increasingly akin to the intelligence of the morontia stage of evolution, the conjoined ministry of the cosmic mind and the superadjutant endowment "

Do you know what "akin" means?



Agon D. Onter wrote:
Superadjutant mind ministry can occur during mortal life; not just after mortal death. (Note I say "can"; not "does" or "always".)

Quote:
6. The Seven Psychic Circles
110:6.1 (1209.1) The sum total of personality realization on a material world is contained within the successive conquest of the seven psychic circles of mortal potentiality. Entrance upon the seventh circle marks the beginning of true human personality function. Completion of the first circle denotes the relative maturity of the mortal being. Though the traversal of the seven circles of cosmic growth does not equal fusion with the Adjuster, the mastery of these circles marks the attainment of those steps which are preliminary to Adjuster fusion.



Quote:
110:6.21 (1211.6) The seven circles embrace mortal experience extending from the highest purely animal level to the lowest actual contactual morontia level of self-consciousness as a personality experience. The mastery of the first cosmic circle signalizes the attainment of premorontia mortal maturity and marks the termination of the conjoint ministry of the adjutant mind-spirits as an exclusive influence of mind action in the human personality. Beyond the first circle, mind becomes increasingly akin to the intelligence of the morontia stage of evolution, the conjoined ministry of the cosmic mind and the superadjutant endowment of the Creative Spirit of a local universe.


Come on Dude...indeed! Some serious twisting alright!

TA makes contact with mortal mind in order to spiritize the mortal mind so it makes decisions and choices of free will which spiritualize the being and add to soul. The TA also ministers directly to soul...it does BOTH! The mortal mind ministry leads us through the Psychic Circles as we transfer the seat of our mortal identity from the material to the spiritual. It is not only the soul which grows and transforms. We cannot grow soul and transform our being and make Circle Progress and transfer the seat of identity unless and until we are transforming the mortal mind and consciousness simultaneously! The mortal mind is itself weaned away from Adjutant mind and we do begin to embrace and think with morontia mind...increasingly so as we advance in the Circles.

110:2.4 (1205.2) Adjusters work in the spheres of the higher levels of the human mind, unceasingly seeking to produce morontia duplicates of every concept of the mortal intellect. There are, therefore, two realities which impinge upon, and are centered in, the human mind circuits: one, a mortal self evolved from the original plans of the Life Carriers, the other, an immortal entity from the high spheres of Divinington, an indwelling gift from God. But the mortal self is also a personal self; it has personality.

110:6.3 (1209.3) The psychic circles are not exclusively intellectual, neither are they wholly morontial; they have to do with personality status, mind attainment, soul growth, and Adjuster attunement. The successful traversal of these levels demands the harmonious functioning of the entire personality, not merely of some one phase thereof. The growth of the parts does not equal the true maturation of the whole; the parts really grow in proportion to the expansion of the entire self—the whole self—material, intellectual, and spiritual.


110:6.7 (1210.2) It is difficult precisely to define the seven levels of human progression, for the reason that these levels are personal; they are variable for each individual and are apparently determined by the growth capacity of each human being. The conquest of these levels of cosmic evolution is reflected in three ways:

110:6.8 (1210.3) 1. Adjuster attunement. The spiritizing mind nears the Adjuster presence proportional to circle attainment.
110:6.9 (1210.4) 2. Soul evolution. The emergence of the morontia soul indicates the extent and depth of circle mastery.
110:6.10 (1210.5) 3. Personality reality. The degree of selfhood reality is directly determined by circle conquest. Persons become more real as they ascend from the seventh to the first level of mortal existence.

110:6.11 (1210.6) As the circles are traversed, the child of material evolution is growing into the mature human of immortal potentiality. The shadowy reality of the embryonic nature of a seventh circler is giving way to the clearer manifestation of the emerging morontia nature of a local universe citizen.



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brooklyn_born wrote:
But we are NOT talking about mortal mind. This is post-mortem mind, that being morontial mind.

Agon D. Onter wrote:
But mortal mind without immortal spirit cannot survive. The mind of man is mortal; only the bestowed spirit is immortal. Survival is dependent on spiritualization by the ministry of the Adjuster—on the birth and evolution of the immortal soul; at least, there must not have developed an antagonism towards the Adjuster's mission of effecting the spiritual transformation of the material mind. ~ The Urantia Book, (49:4.9)



Actually....both mortal mind and morontia mind (soul) co-exist and are independent of each other during the material life. The soul is aware of material mind....material mind can be aware or unaware of morontial/soul mind and the soul has a mind of its own and volition and the ability to grow. However, the soul is limited significantly in its own potential growth during the mortal life without a spiritizing mind and Circle Progress. Mortal minded choices and decisions move us closer to God or further away.

5:1.7 (63.5) Man is spiritually indwelt by a surviving Thought Adjuster. If such a human mind is sincerely and spiritually motivated, if such a human soul desires to know God and become like him, honestly wants to do the Father’s will, there exists no negative influence of mortal deprivation nor positive power of possible interference which can prevent such a divinely motivated soul from securely ascending to the portals of Paradise.

5:2.5 (65.1) It is exceedingly difficult for the meagerly spiritualized, material mind of mortal man to experience marked consciousness of the spirit activities of such divine entities as the Paradise Adjusters. As the soul of joint mind and Adjuster creation becomes increasingly existent, there also evolves a new phase of soul consciousness which is capable of experiencing the presence, and of recognizing the spirit leadings and other supermaterial activities, of the Mystery Monitors.

5:2.6 (65.2) The entire experience of Adjuster communion is one involving moral status, mental motivation, and spiritual experience. The self-realization of such an achievement is mainly, though not exclusively, limited to the realms of soul consciousness, but the proofs are forthcoming and abundant in the manifestation of the fruits of the spirit in the lives of all such inner-spirit contactors.

5:3.7 (66.3) Sincere worship connotes the mobilization of all the powers of the human personality under the dominance of the evolving soul and subject to the divine directionization of the associated Thought Adjuster. The mind of material limitations can never become highly conscious of the real significance of true worship. Man’s realization of the reality of the worship experience is chiefly determined by the developmental status of his evolving immortal soul. The spiritual growth of the soul takes place wholly independently of the intellectual self-consciousness.

5:3.8 (66.4) The worship experience consists in the sublime attempt of the betrothed Adjuster to communicate to the divine Father the inexpressible longings and the unutterable aspirations of the human soul—the conjoint creation of the God-seeking mortal mind and the God-revealing immortal Adjuster. Worship is, therefore, the act of the material mind’s assenting to the attempt of its spiritualizing self, under the guidance of the associated spirit, to communicate with God as a faith son of the Universal Father. The mortal mind consents to worship; the immortal soul craves and initiates worship; the divine Adjuster presence conducts such worship in behalf of the mortal mind and the evolving immortal soul. True worship, in the last analysis, becomes an experience realized on four cosmic levels: the intellectual, the morontial, the spiritual, and the personal—the consciousness of mind, soul, and spirit, and their unification in personality.

5:6.7 (71.2) The material self has personality and identity, temporal identity; the prepersonal spirit Adjuster also has identity, eternal identity. This material personality and this spirit prepersonality are capable of so uniting their creative attributes as to bring into existence the surviving identity of the immortal soul.

5:6.8 (71.3) Having thus provided for the growth of the immortal soul and having liberated man’s inner self from the fetters of absolute dependence on antecedent causation, the Father stands aside. Now, man having thus been liberated from the fetters of causation response, at least as pertains to eternal destiny, and provision having been made for the growth of the immortal self, the soul, it remains for man himself to will the creation or to inhibit the creation of this surviving and eternal self which is his for the choosing. No other being, force, creator, or agency in all the wide universe of universes can interfere to any degree with the absolute sovereignty of the mortal free will, as it operates within the realms of choice, regarding the eternal destiny of the personality of the choosing mortal. As pertains to eternal survival, God has decreed the sovereignty of the material and mortal will, and that decree is absolute.


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