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 Post subject: Re: Adjutant intellect
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The adjutants have nothing to do with soul Steven. Quotes have already been posted.

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Maybe not the independent or evolutionary functions from the first five spirits, but actually the enhanced function of the first five spirits under the auspices of worship and wisdom, in my opinion would shed evidence for the morontial individual's (of human individuality) existence. The enhanced function would reciprocate and correlate human intent/will, and the saturation of these spirits within the material tabernacle is like when a plant is properly nourished and is able to flourish. Indeed these adjutant spirits are as "the diet of the human soul". These mind spirits perhaps harmonize to encompass human perception, within that arena of mind-choice.

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
Maybe not the independent or evolutionary functions from the first five spirits, but actually the enhanced function of the first five spirits under the auspices of worship and wisdom, in my opinion would shed evidence for the morontial individual's (of human individuality) existence. The enhanced function would reciprocate and correlate human intent/will, and the saturation of these spirits within the material tabernacle is like when a plant is properly nourished and is able to flourish. Indeed these adjutant spirits are as "the diet of the human soul". These mind spirits perhaps harmonize to encompass human perception, within that arena of mind-choice.



All false...every word of it. :-# :-s :-$ :roll:

The adjutants do not serve anything or anyone morontial (except #6&7 serve midwayers). The adjutants do not feed the soul. They also do not correlate human intent or will. Sorry....still no cigar!


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:wink: Sorry I have to do the trollface

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SEla_Kelly wrote:
:wink: Sorry I have to do the trollface



Whatever dude....do what you need to! :?: :arrow: :roll:


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So if we do not identify adjutant mind spirits as morontial, we should at least admit that they are the evidence of "life" per se, as all living organisms possess the spirit of intuition. They are not the morontial mind spirits or morontial in themselves at all. But taken collectively, the first five mind spirits serve as "scaffolding" between material life and morontial life (alright an unqualified opinion I must admit).

So here I can return to my answer to Nigel's question. I am attempting to help Nigel perfect his model of how the mind spirits impinge upon human perception. If someone has the attribute of worship or wisdom, we must acknowledge from the Urantia Papers, there would be no way to identify that quaNtatively. But they can be identified, right? Somehow? I would think there should be a way to deduce their presence through "increased resonance" and "better coordination" between the first five adjutant mind spirits, as the transpire within the human perception.

It is fine that Nigel would keep his own model, but I will force him to consider my theories and I am glad to have this privelege in our forum.

So if you believe, perhaps!, the sixth and seventh mind spirit would evidence the burgeoning morontial soul of man. But what if they are not quantitatively measurable, we should consider that enhancement of the function of the first five, quantitatively, might indicate that the soul is maturing while within the human format. When you say that intent and will cannot have any influence upon the reception of adjutant mind spirits? Then someone who has make consecration-choice (to do God's Will), would not be "blessed" somehow, through the opening of the mind to receive these forces? I just don't understand why willingness and personality, as you say, couldn't possibly affect the function of the first five mind spirits, you know in a way that enhances and coordinates their function within the unified psyche of one who is trying to align their own inner patterns to the patterns divine.

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well it was just some doodles i made when i first read the book but i did note some roughly constructive permutations of the seven adjutant spirits in the progression of our approach to God from fear and awe thru reverence, recognition, realization to appreciation and Love...roughly parallel permutations. maybe...or maybe just me doodling...i didnt pursue it


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SEla_Kelly wrote:
So if we do not identify adjutant mind spirits as morontial, we should at least admit that they are the evidence of "life" per se, as all living organisms possess the spirit of intuition. They are not the morontial mind spirits or morontial in themselves at all. But taken collectively,the first five mind spirits serve as "scaffolding" between material life and morontial life (alright an unqualified opinion I must admit).

So here I can return to my answer to Nigel's question. I am attempting to help Nigel perfect his model of how the mind spirits impinge upon human perception. If someone has the attribute of worship or wisdom, we must acknowledge from the Urantia Papers, there would be no way to identify that quaNtatively. But they can be identified, right? Somehow? I would think there should be a way to deduce their presence through "increased resonance" and "better coordination" between the first five adjutant mind spirits, as the transpire within the human perception.

It is fine that Nigel would keep his own model, but I will force him to consider my theories and I am glad to have this privelege in our forum.

So if you believe, perhaps!, the sixth and seventh mind spirit would evidence the burgeoning morontial soul of man. But what if they are not quantitatively measurable, we should consider that enhancement of the function of the first five, quantitatively, might indicate that the soul is maturing while within the human format. When you say that intent and will cannot have any influence upon the reception of adjutant mind spirits? Then someone who has make consecration-choice (to do God's Will), would not be "blessed" somehow, through the opening of the mind to receive these forces? I just don't understand why willingness and personality, as you say, couldn't possibly affect the function of the first five mind spirits, you know in a way that enhances and coordinates their function within the unified psyche of one who is trying to align their own inner patterns to the patterns divine.


Your first statement above misses the point Steven but is also inaccurate: "So if we do not identify adjutant mind spirits as morontial, we should at least admit that they are the evidence of "life" per se, as all living organisms possess the spirit of intuition."

The point is that the adjutant mind spirits do not attend or minister to or make contact with morontia mind (note the two exceptions previously acknowledged regarding midwayers). They are not "evidence of life" either, per se or otherwise, since there certainly is mechanical/non-teachable "life" as described in Paper 36 - so it is false to claim here that "all living organisms possess the spirit of intuition" - not true or even close to true. In fact not even all levels of mind or minded creatures are endowed by the adjutant spirits but only "... are ministers of the lower levels of experiential mind..." Steven, you are claiming much about the Adjutants that is blatantly false and makes all your related theories mere fallacies of invention and irrelevant to discussion.

9:5.3 The unique feature of mind is that it can be bestowed upon such a wide range of life. Through his creative and creature associates the Third Source and Center ministers to all minds on all spheres. He ministers to human and subhuman intellect through the adjutants of the local universes and, through the agency of the physical controllers, ministers even to the lowest nonexperiencing entities of the most primitive types of living things. And always is the direction of mind a ministry of mind-spirit or mind-energy personalities.

34:5.3 Mortal man first experiences the ministry of the Spirit in conjunction with mind when the purely animal mind of evolutionary creatures develops reception capacity for the adjutants of worship and of wisdom. This ministry of the sixth and seventh adjutants indicates mind evolution crossing the threshold of spiritual ministry. And immediately are such minds of worship- and wisdom-function included in the spiritual circuits of the Divine Minister.

This means the first 5 adjutants take evolutionary creatures up to the highest forms of animal life while Adjutants 6&7 transform those into free will creatures capable of faith experience and the endowment of the TA - mortal mind, material mind which has the ability to transcend its material origins and survive eternally. The 6th and 7th Adjutants endow and deliver up the realization of the potential established billions of years before when the Life Carriers and the Adjutants first arrive on a world.

It is that mind of morals and worship combined with that new relationship that creates or gives birth to soul - the morontial being - which is itself minded but NOT connected to the Adjutants! But the mortal mind is still encircuited and ministered to by all 7 Adjutants as it makes an endless stream of choices and by such decisions and motives and intentions and free will choices is soul fed and grows and may become our dominant seat of identity...as it and we become weaned away from the Adjutants due to our growing experiential wisdom and super-minded spiritization.




You earlier claimed: "I think it is more plausible for there to be 1, 3, or 5 essential reservoirs for the combinance of the seven adjutant mind spirits (within the human body), than 7."

And say: "What does it mean Central Lodgment. To me this is not reference necessarily the spaces of the human tabernacle, but actually the reservoirs of adjutant mind spirits in the spheres surrounding Salvington. I would like more clarification or if there is proof that it references either the reserves or the orchestration of adjutant harmonization within the human tabernacle.

Elaboration of 36:5.3 "the adjutant of wisdom is registered in the immediate presence of the Divine Minister on Salvington"


"More clarification" resides in the very next quote Steven:

36:5.4 (402.1) The seven adjutant mind-spirits always accompany the Life Carriers to a new planet, but they should not be regarded as entities; they are more like circuits. The spirits of the seven universe adjutants do not function as personalities apart from the universe presence of the Divine Minister; they are in fact a level of consciousness of the Divine Minister and are always subordinate to the action and presence of their creative mother.

All seven accompany the Life Carriers to every world of life implantation Steven....not just five as you claim in your pointless and false theory which simply demonstrates your inability to read or understand or care about the contents of the UB. Pick one!





As to your false metaphysical inventions regarding the "five fold" nature of the adjutants, there is nothing five-fold anywhere in the universe of universes Steven! The primary universe patterns are 7 from the Central Universe pattern and 10 from the time and space pattern...as I understand it. Why would you deny the seven fold ministry of the Adjutants? All seven are manifest in the human mind which is what differentiates us from the animals - only we are encircuited and responsive to the sevenfold mind bestowal...and # 6&7are certainly not "held in reserve"

17:7.1 These adjutant spirits are the sevenfold mind bestowal of a local universe Mother Spirit upon the living creatures of the conjoint creation of a Creator Son and such a Creative Spirit. This bestowal becomes possible at the time of the Spirit's elevation to the status of personality prerogatives. The narration of the nature and functioning of the seven adjutant mind-spirits belongs more appropriately to the story of your local universe of Nebadon.

34:5.2 On the inhabited worlds the Spirit begins the work of evolutionary progression, starting with the lifeless material of the realm, first endowing vegetable life, then the animal organisms, then the first orders of human existence; and each succeeding impartation contributes to the further unfolding of the evolutionary potential of planetary life from the initial and primitive stages to the appearance of will creatures. This labor of the Spirit is largely effected through the seven adjutants, the spirits of promise, the unifying and co-ordinating spirit-mind of the evolving planets, ever and unitedly leading the races of men towards higher ideas and spiritual ideals.

It remains most unfortunate for the student body here that Steven continues to prefer his own ambitions, agenda, and theories here rather than to actually seek out and learn that which the authors so generously share with us.

:-$ =; :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: Adjutant intellect
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I am looking for indications; I am not trying to suggest that the adjutant ministry pertains to morontial beings; I am not trying to debate you.

Previously, everyone was searching for evidence of morontial function if the spirits of worship and wisdom are present. But we will not be able to identify them quantify them; we need to understand that their presence could be deduced from the enhanced function of the lower five mind spirits. I agree with you the regular function of the first five mind spirits gives no indication of morontial function. However, how might their enhanced function reveal the working of worship and wisdom. The Qualitative means by which we might identify worship and wisdom, I will purport is in knowing the ordinary function of the first five spirits, and then observing sufficent change in the pattern or amplitude or harmonization of them.

Currently not "held in reserve" thank you for the correction.

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Sounds as if you are trying to understand the difference between you and your dog.

You are the only one here looking for "morontial function" related to the higher Adjutants. Despite all the text to the contrary. Please provide text support for your propositions of "enhanced function" of the lower adjutants....what does that mean? Are you claiming that the lower adjutants in humans are of a greater quality than their work in the high mammals?

If so, and i doubt it, that still doesn't connect the Adjutants to anything morontial. Text please? In truth and reality we are told that true engagement with the higher Adjutants results in our weaning away from all the Adjutants rather than any enhancements....just the opposite of your claims.


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I have to admit that this goes back to when Nigel asked me "what do you think?" And I answered by saying the thoughts that were on my mind, and in a sense not properly analysing the context he was trying to consider my erstwhile position.


And I researched the Urantia Book for some shred of evidence to aide my confirmational bias. It was like water pouring through my hand. I am sure that you take no pride in the tedium I have caused you and the confusion I might bring to others.

You even eschew the strong indication that humans are(ought) "weaning" from the dependence on the adjutant mind. That would be a strong indicator against my theory of "enhancement" when worship and wisdom arrives in the human tabernacle.



This all began when I tried to explain my confirmational bias, rather than dealing with the contexual frame that Nigel offered.
I need to go back to this. Why would the sixth and seventh adjutant mind spirit be quantitatively and qualitatively present on Salvington, but only qualitatively present within the human tabernacle?

Do I even have the right to make a second guess?
There could be 5 Central Lodgment within Human Tabernacle, reserve for the first five of course, and then worship and wisdom might be able to indwell those Lodgments. Perhaps they are only qualitatively real because they do not have individuated spaces for their function in the human body.

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Makalu wrote:
always found this bit about humans needing animals interesting:

Quote:
P403:1, 36:5.13 The adjutant mind-spirits experientially grow, but they never become personal. They evolve in function, and the function of the first five in the animal orders is to a certain extent essential to the function of all seven as human intellect. This animal relationship makes the adjutants more practically effective as human mind; hence animals are to a certain extent indispensable to man's intellectual as well as to his physical evolution.


certainly the spirit of intuition functions way better in insects than us...and the spirit of counsel in dogs.

article on insect intelligence has some interesting facts and points like this:

Quote:
.....intelligence, if it’s measured by behavioural repertoire, innovativeness or sociality. In any of those examples, a honeybee will come out as more intelligent than a human or a whale.


source: Insect Brains and Animal Intelligence


While I do agree with this proposal posted by Makalu that the animal kingdom seems better connected and more responsive to the adjutants, 'instinctually' speaking at least, I wonder about a couple of related issues. First, are primitive mortals more instinctually connected to the lower 5 adjutants than modern mortals? Do we lose our 'edge' or sharpness of awarenesses and responses to these primary adjutant circuits as we socially progress? How about as we progress individually in the religious experience of faith and truth? Does progress in the circles, evidence of transferring the seat of our personal identity and our spiritization of mind by our Thought Adjuster, dimminish the connection to these circuits which also then reduces the functional impact of the Adjutants?

If so, then Makalu's claims are correct for modern mortals but not necesarilly for primitive mortals - I'm thinking post hunter-gatherer. The connections become less personally as socially we become agriculturalists?

Or might it be that all life connected to the Adjutant circuit is most connected to and affected by the highest Adjutant to which it is encircuited? Could that explain this observation - "...certainly the spirit of intuition functions way better in insects than us...and the spirit of counsel in dogs."



If that is true, then it might be speculated that mortals would be less responsive to the lower Adjutants because of their connection to higher ones. The higher the Adjutant of connection and influence, the more dominant that connection becomes compared to the lower connections? Are mortals less influenced by the lower adjutants simply because we are attached to the higher ones?


And then there is the issue of brain size and mass! The size of the brain is an important measurement of science for the evolutionary development of species progress up to the tool making and problem solving and self awareness and scientific capabilities of true humans compared to their lesser cousins before them. In the quote above, 36:5.13, we are told that animal brain/mind development and Adjutant connections are as important to human functionality as is the biological evolution of the pre-animal and animal kingdom....both are evolutionary prerequisites for our eventual and ultimate emergence from the evolutionary processes of both the Life Carriers and the Adjutants!!


What does the human processor or brain capacity have to do with the functionality of the Adjutants? I've heard it said that humans use only a small percentage of brain capacity. How does that relate to Nigel's opening post related to the work of Bohm?


Nigel's original post below...hoping to get back on topic into this fascinating and important inquiry.


8) Bradly


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 Post subject: Re: Adjutant intellect
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nnunn wrote:
From The Urantia Book, paper 101 section 6.4,
Quote:
"The evolutionary type of knowledge is but the accumulation of protoplasmic memory material; this is the most primitive form of creature consciousness. Wisdom embraces the ideas formulated from protoplasmic memory in process of association and recombination, and such phenomena differentiate human mind from mere animal mind. [...]." ( 1111.8, 101:6.4 )

On page 50 of his 1980 book, Wholeness and the Implicate Order, David Bohm proposes an interesting distinction between "thinking" and "perception". By defining a primitive mode of "thinking" to be a more-or-less sophisticated juggling of that "protoplasmic memory material" (see 101:6.4 above), he can then contrast this with higher order modes, which he calls "acts of perception".

From Bohm, page 50,
Quote:
"It is clear that thought, considered in this way as the response of memory, is basically mechanical in its order of operation. Either it is a repetition of some previously existent structure drawn from memory, or else it is some combination arrangement and organization of these memories into further structures of ideas and concepts, categories, etc. These combinations may possess a certain kind of novelty resulting from the fortuitous interplay of elements of memory, but it is clear that such novelty is still essentially mechanical (like the new combinations appearing in a kaleidoscope)."

If a certain neural-biological capacity is required to enable such kaleidoscopic recombination (of protoplasmic memory material), and if this foundation then determines the "potential for intellectual capacity" (in animal and then human mind), then evolving such capacity must be high on the agenda of the Life Carriers?

Bohm continues:
Quote:
"There is in this mechanical process no inherent reason why the thoughts that arise should be relevant or fitting to the actual situation that evokes them. The perception of whether or not any particular thoughts are relevant or fitting requires the operation of an energy that is not mechanical, an energy that we shall call intelligence. This latter is able to perceive a new order or a new structure, that is not just a modification of what is already known or present in memory. For example, one may be working on a puzzling problem for a long time. Suddenly, in a flash of understanding, one may see the irrelevance of one’s whole way of thinking about the problem, along with a different approach in which all the elements fit in a new order and in a new structure. Clearly, such a flash is essentially an act of perception, rather than a process of thought (a similar notion was discussed in chapter 1), though later it may be expressed in thought. What is involved in this act is perception through the mind of abstract orders and relationships such as identity and difference, separation and connection, necessity and contingency, cause and effect, etc."

(David Bohm, Wholeness and the Implicate Order, 1980, page 50).

Let's assume that this accumulation and juggling of "protoplasmic memory material" involves the biochemistry of neurons firing, and of forming and rehearsing neural connections. Since such neural activity is now easy for scientists to measure, a scientist who assumes a materialist model might be forgiven for mistaking such biological activity for "mind"...

On the other hand, the Urantia Book reveals that human intelligence involves the rhythmic pulsation of a set of circuit-like adjutants,

Quote:
"[...]. In the mortal experience the human intellect resides in the rhythmic pulsations of the adjutant mind-spirits and effects its decisions within the arena produced by encircuitment within this ministry." ( 1286.5, 117:5.7 )

If we associate this adjutant-based type of intellect with what Bohm called intelligence (see above quote from Bohm, p.50), and then distinguish this from the more-or-less mechanical juggling of that "protoplasmic memory material", then the Divine Minister's "Seven Adjutant Mind Spirits" become not so much the source of "intellectual capacity", but rather a set of characteristic "modes of perception" into that intellectual capacity. The potential for such capacity will be determined by the bio-neural systems the Life Carriers manage to evolve, while the capacity for discovery, recognition, interpretation and choosing become a function of the perception made accessible via the adjutant level of consciousness of the Divine Minister.

In a recent study of Paper 36: The Life Carriers (at another forum), a question came up about how these "Seven Adjutant Mind Spirits" actually engage animals. Do they encircuit directly the "life" in such life-forms, or is some subtle biochemistry involved? Either way, it seems clear that the Life Carriers' task involves the evolution of animals with whatever is required for them to be "contactable" by the Adjutants.

This issue, of evolving a necessary compatibility, is highlighted in paper 65 section 7:
Quote:
"[...]. With but a single exception, the adjutants experienced the greatest difficulty in contacting with the evolving minds of Urantia organisms that they had ever had in all their functioning throughout the universe of Nebadon. On this world there developed many forms of border phenomena -- confusional combinations of the mechanical-nonteachable and the nonmechanical-teachable types of organismal response." ( 738.7, 65:7.4 )

Even more interesting is that these Adjutant Mind Spirits seek "receptivity capacity" individually and independently,
Quote:
"[...]. These mind-spirits send forth their influence into all the inhabited worlds as a differential urge, each seeking receptivity capacity for manifestation quite apart from the degree to which its fellows may find reception and opportunity for function." ( 401.6, 36:5.2 )

Since our intellect is said (1286.5, 117:5.7) to reside in the rhythmic pulsations of these circuit-like mind-spirits, and since our decisions are formed and acted upon "within the arena produced by encircuitment within this ministry" (117:5.7), this arena is clearly an important part of the Urantia Book story for us to explore  :idea:

I'd love to hear comments and fresh thoughts on this topic!

Nigel


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Could that explain this observation - "...certainly the spirit of intuition functions way better in insects than us...and the spirit of counsel in dogs."


no, not really. the explanation pertains to the fact that insects are born fully educated while we die ignorant and dogs have perfected unconditional love when it's just a goal for us and they're both livin' loyal each day just doing gods will...for them.


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