Urantia Book Forum

Urantia Book Discussion Board : Study Group
It is currently Tue Aug 20, 2019 12:36 pm +0000

All times are UTC - 7 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:16 pm +0000
Posts: 926
Location: Nanticoke NY
I do not know what false memories are.

_________________
to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Online

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3554
Google it!

10 witnesses to any event = 10 memories.

Time changes memory; either sweeter or more bitter.

Memories can be invented...never happened at all.

Interesting phenomena.

8)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:16 pm +0000
Posts: 926
Location: Nanticoke NY
I am unfamiliar with the dynamic by which new experiences, new terminologies, and new valuations are made upon human experience, by subsequent experiences.

I am unwilling to make value judgment for other people who attempt propaganda which would sway opinions, or attempt for the individual to offer new perceptions by which previous events may be seen. The theory that the Thought Adjuster is able to manipulate values makes people who believe in free will afraid that their own ideas are not their own. Everyone is striving towards some ideal of their own division -devisement, and their behaviours reflect the status of intention.

If you can let your own actions reflect your philosophy, then you will see that the overt and pretentious attempts made, as you see abroad in the public stage, to shape opinion. This is usually through the positing of new contexts, or additional clauses appended to the previous scenario. Therefore, this cannot be seen in my opinion as "false memory".

Remember that it is only that the Thought Adjuster is only imperceptibally shaping your thoughts ideas the memories of the previously existing thought frame, according to ideals of the universal father. That is an objective theory, and the Thought Adjuster is potential or theoretical from a rational perspective. On the level of humanity, we do not bear this role. WE can only hope so much as to advice and counsel, within the context of how another individual modus operandus, may operate ideally within their own moral dilemma.

You should have consideration. For the raising of such controversial issues is not being done delicately. I do not understand how you are bringing this context? Not in relationship to the way parents bring teaching unto children, but to the fact of propaganda campaigns. Abusiveness in relationship to the enforcement of facts, means that emotional effects are being attached waiting as a result of choices. To attempt to change another's opinion is to make your own argument false. It has nothing to do with human memories. It has no relation to the way individuals develop their(each) personal ethos.

_________________
to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:16 pm +0000
Posts: 926
Location: Nanticoke NY
The modus by which Thought Adjuster is allowed to manipulate the valuation of experience is a separate issue from the way humans advice one another. There is no such thing as "false memory" in my opinion. We need to be careful when we help others to remove the emotions from self-analysis. And we need to be careful when we help other people to sort out the logic and perception of universe (thought frame) from the actual experience.

There is the idea of "perception building" emotional reinforcement but this are new experiences, not false memories. The context by which one may view Urantia may change, but that does not alter the fact that we are in Urantia experiencing this for ourselves.
"False memory" is rather not an actual concept or term, in my opinion.


I would say, you can help the children to have new experiences. But do not threaten them. Do not say "this will happen if you do that", with the emotional abusiveness. In Democracy, it is okay to make the wrong choices. It seems in our era, there will always be emotional false context posited by caucus in the propaganda. But in reality there is no voting until the day of elections. All caucus meetings are in reality potentially subversive to political discourse.

_________________
to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:59 pm +0000
Posts: 330
Location: North Dakota
Fanovan,

The primary difference between our views of how to proceed with the appropriation of the teachings of the Urantia Book, while pronounced, is actually quite simple. Yes, I have been blessed with experiences wherein the reality of the presence of God was revealed in my person. Such experiences are explained and thoroughly supported by the Urantia Book. But since these began before I ever heard of the book, my authority and therefore, my resultant view of reality proceed from these experiences. Said another way, I see reality in the light of my personal spiritual experience so my understanding of it is built around that framework. The result is that while my understanding of reality is supported and explained by the Fifth Epochal Revelation, it is not based on it. Once again, my understanding of reality is built on the facts of the revelation but my personal assessment of my relationship with God is a product of my intellectual understanding of those facts being personally related to the subjective appreciation of the value of my personal spiritual experience. This process of reality assessment and soul building is exactly what is described by the Urantia Book as the way life is supposed to work.

I will say this. Every time you create a confrontational issue that you deem to be of paramount importance, especially one where you “have grave concerns” for any influence my posting might offer in the lives of others on this board, you actually promote additional research into my position, both by me and by many others, simply by calling attention to it. I believe as we are taught, that the Spirit of Truth uses all such events where sincere students seek him to infuse his guidance into our lives. For that I thank you very much. May God's will be done.

Jim


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Online

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3554
You're welcome! Glad to help. Of course I am not creating confrontational issues...but I am willing to confront issues, claims, declarations, proclamations, beliefs, and opinions related to the teachings of the UB. Especially those I find which contrast and conflict with those teachings.

I don't think you truly described the "difference between our views" related to the teachings...and I don't know that has relevancy anyway. But like you, my religious life was already quite robust prior to the teachings came to my life and my appreciation for the Papers has a very experiential foundation.

You asked for opinions as to the meaning of the "dangers" described. I offered my opinions related. You find those confrontational. Interesting.

Jim says: "Let us not make the mistake of failing to grow for fear of error....And another thing, what is meant by danger? In a mercy dominated universe are we not allowed the error of misunderstanding? Personally, I would rather make a mistake while trying to advance than to sit back while I "wait upon the Lord" to reveal such things to me beyond any shadow of a doubt. Our Father measures us by our intentions not our results.....One last comment here. As human beings we are only expected to remain on terra firma for 70 to 80 years on the average these days. Can we have no hope of achieving some measure of success in experientially realizing these kinds of issues?"

So you say it is our intentions and not our progress that is measured (I agree!) but then ask if there is no hope for achieving success in realizing "these kinds of issues". What do you mean by that? Success in what kinds of issues? Direct communication with our TA? That which we are warned is fraught with dangers?

All faith and spiritization delivers progress, growth, and results we are taught. And all progress delivers the fruits of the spirit. These cannot be faked or hidden. Again you voice the accusation that others are sitting back, compared to you, and are complacently "waiting upon the Lord". Who does this Jim? Who awaits proofs "beyond any shadow of a doubt" Jim? Who?


Herein lies one of those differences in our understanding and embrace of the teachings Jim. I am not so disappointed in others and their personal religious lives and experiences. I am not impatient for my own progress or that of my fellows or our world. I find the Most Highs and the TA's and the Holy Spirit and Son's Spirit do a really fine job of spiritizing the each and spiritualizing the whole. I am content....not complacent. I am joyful....not demanding. I don't know who waits, and believe that's not my business or concern. My progress and sharing my light and faith and hope and fruits is my business. I act and leave the consequences to God...in full faith of all future outcomes. You appear to constantly be measuring what others are or are not doing compared to yourself and giving advice to all those who fail to be as real and earnest and progressed as you measure yourself to be.


I find that to be part of the "dangers" and warnings given us in the Revelation. This obsession of measuring others appears contrary to the teachings. "Let us not make the mistake...." Who is us Jim? Is this your mistake? Or do you claim it is the mistake of others? Which others Jim? From you I always hear the voice of the preacher...preaching to others....rather than speaking for himself....describing the errors and sins of others....while upholding one's own superior beliefs and practices. Perhaps it is just me? Perhaps it is unintentional? Perhaps it is what preachers do?


Such certainties of one's own perspective and experience compared to others' inferior experience or "two dimensional" perspective is, to me, an example of the "dangers" you inquired about earlier and that we are warned about in believing that all experiences that originate in mind are real or dependable and from God or TA. For the mind which can transcend its own limitations can inherently create delusions and illusions which are a danger to one's progress in the Spirit...as the TruthBook warns!


And my earlier questions: How do you determine that which comes from God and that which is self created - illusion or delusion? Do you think those who believe in delusions suffer for their beliefs and confidences in God's voice? Why do you think the authors warn us so strongly on the very real dangers of such false beliefs? As you point out, they clearly say it is better to mistrust and not embrace such beliefs because of these very real dangers of believing in that which is a false confidence in God's voice when it is but our own subconscious telling us what we wish to hear? Perhaps believing in such falsehood might prevent us from hearing and discerning the pilot's true whisper?


8)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Online

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3554
brooklyn_born wrote:
Our mind is unable to process, visually, literal motion. It has to trick itself, so to speak, into believing it is observing it. Mind blowing stuff! The phenomenon is called "transsaccadic memory."

Basically, our field of vision seems to be continuous due to this phenomenon. The fact is, however, every time you move your eyes, and they are moving all the time, your brain switches off the processing of retinal images. When the movement stops, the process starts again; the intervening moment between the stop and go is blindness. This is called saccadic masking.

To elaborate further, the brain takes in the image obtained just before saccadic mask sets in, and the image it gets right after the mask is lifted; a still image per on and per off. The images received across the ons and offs are then integrated by the brain to fill in the gaps (blindness)! Our mind is literally building up matrices of images, frame by frame, and integrating them to form a motion picture.

So many spiritual analogies can be drawn from this. I think this phenomenon could be also related to TA picturization function.

Quote:
110:6.5 (1209.5) ...the Adjuster is increasingly enabled to register his picturizations of destiny with augmenting vividness and conviction upon the evolving consciousness of this God-seeking mind-soul.


Here's the wiki link on "transsaccadic memory": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transsaccadic_memory

I'm wondering why you call it a "false perception" of motion? We do perceive actual motion. The motion affected by transsaccadic memory is the movement of the eye or the lens of vision...the saccades....it is not any motion within the field of view or observation - another issue. This motion is also not "false" but it does require stablization to un-blur the images seen by the lens of view - the eyes...by a neural mechanism. The memory aspect is a different set of theories that have to do with the storing and recall (memory) of images gathered by this neural mechanism. That which is remembered most often lies within the more direct (and less peripheral) field of vision and depends upon focus and attention for later recall (memory).


The title of this topic is somewhat misleading. The saccadic effect actually creates a false perception of non-motion - it is a neural adjustment to the motion of the eye related to that which is being viewed - it is not about that which lies within the field of view, whether fixed or moving. The lens is in motion and the saccadic effect stabilizes that motion of the lens. Or so I understand.


One can conclude, based on related theories in the wiki article, that the interuption of saccades (eye movement) by focalization and attention with the intention of picturization and memorization facilitates the actual enhancement and memorialization of any particular visual memory.


I am hopeful BB will share the "spiritual analogies" he believes "can be drawn from this" neurological stablization of visual perception. He's offered none so far.


I am also at a loss to understand what such a mechanical function might have to do with the picturizations in mind by the TA whereby such vividness and conviction of memory certainly is not related to the eyes or neural mechanisms related to transsaccadic memory.


The fact is all five senses create and enhance memories for our recall. But the TA does not rely or depend upon any of those biological and neurological sensory systems for their work in spiritizing the mortal mind or in the recreation of mortal memories for soul and the Supreme.

I wonder though if we will remember flavors and smells and visual memories in the next life? Probably so.

Memory is so important to the eternal adventure. There can be no experiential wisdom without it. And, evidently, there can be no humor either:

48:4.20 (550.1) The principles of Urantian play life are philosophically sound and continue to apply on up through your ascending life, through the circuits of Havona to the eternal shores of Paradise. As ascendant beings you are in possession of personal memories of all former and lower existences, and without such identity memories of the past there would be no basis for the humor of the present, either mortal laughter or morontia mirth. It is this recalling of past experiences that provides the basis for present diversion and amusement. And so you will enjoy the celestial equivalents of your earthly humor all the way up through your long morontia, and then increasingly spiritual, careers. And that part of God (the Adjuster) which becomes an eternal part of the personality of an ascendant mortal contributes the overtones of divinity to the joyous expressions, even spiritual laughter, of the ascending creatures of time and space.


:wink: 8)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 22 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Registered users: fanofVan, Google Feedfetcher


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group