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BB, you write:

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53:9.5 (611.4) "... And no more beings have been won to the deceiver’s cause. For nineteen hundred years the status has been unchanged."

We are in 2018. I have asked this question before ---for the past 118 years can one guarantee the status remains unchanged? Absolutely not. No one can claim it as the revelators themselves don't. And why would revelators put in the qualifier, "for nineteen hundred years the status has been unchanged"? Why didn't they just say the status will remain unchanged? Are they hinting something to us?


I don't think they're hinting at anything; the fact is that all personalities have always had, and will always have, freewill. There's no guarantees of anything, given that reality. Nevertheless, we also know that when Jesus was here, he effectively ended the rebellion on Urantia. That is the GOOD news! And this, regarding future rebel activity here

Quote:
134:8.9 And when Jesus came down from his sojourn on Mount Hermon, the Lucifer rebellion in Satania and the Caligastia secession on Urantia were virtually settled. Jesus had paid the last price required of him to attain the sovereignty of his universe, which in itself regulates the status of all rebels and determines that all such future upheavals (if they ever occur) may be dealt with summarily and effectively.


BTW, thanks for such a good discussion...


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I do not doubt anything on this subject. I express my understanding of it exactly how I perceive the revelators convey the information,nothing more nothing less. Stating rebels still roam the system is not equivalent to lost of faith or having doubt in something. If I had doubt, it would be something like the rebels no longer roam, are imprisoned but the agents of God may not have enough power to confine them indefinitely. That is doubt, doubt in the power of agents.

I won't address this again with you. Please, refrain from the personal stuff with me and restrict your critiques of my concepts TO THE CONCEPTS. Is that too challenging? Moving forward, every time you engage in it, I ignore. I won't bother the administration anymore. It is just getting childish and redundant.




fanofVan wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
foV,

After much thought, and considering the admonishment of the moderator, I decided we could put behind us the past and move on in our study, personal and collective, of TUB on this board. Unfortunately, here we go again, making personal, the discussion.

Why continue resorting to this tactic? It is an adhominem attack on me. You do not know me in real life. You do not know my faith. You know NOTHING of a sort except some doctrinal concepts I published online. Why are you casting moral judgment on me?

Do I have to flag the thread once again and keep nagging the moderators? This is getting taxing on me and I am sure on the administration.



fanofVan wrote:

Yet here you are time after time...same old doubts, suspicions, worries... and perspective of anxiousness and disbelief in the teachings. It is my hope you will come to receive the assurance of faith and truth to ease such an obvious burden. Perhaps some day you will "lighten up" by such assurance within.

8)



My asking you questions about your expressions of doubt and anxiety are an adhominem attack? I too look forward to the study of the UB and its many assurances related to the rebellion, its end, its status, and our personal and planetary safety. You appear to have a very different opinion about those issues. You are apparently very, very, very concerned about the "status" of the rebellion and claim it to be "unknown" and that Cali/Dali "freely roam" "prosecuting nefarious designs" and further that there are "rebels roaming the systerm" and you claim that more and more celestials continue to join in the rebellion (even this past century - would those be the ones "roaming the system"?) and you obviously doubt the actual certainty of any verdict to come misunderstanding the obvious sentence structure of the text wherein only the method of anouncement is "anticipated" (a word whose definition you apparently find ill defined and indicative of doubt and uncertainty - not true but your opinion nonetheless) as pointed out and explained with lots of supporting text - all of which has, so far, been ignored by you.


Now I ask you questions about your beliefs and am accused of yet another vicious attack. Again, I would remind you we are here to study the UB...not your opinions and claims and fears and doubts which contradict the UB. I am reminded of the quote about the amount of defense of any proposition being the inverse of its truth content. I have made no "moral judgements" of you or about you....I don't know you and I don't make moral judgements or measure the spirituality of others (although there are such that do here among us). I read opinions and offer opinions and compare the text of the UB to all opinions, those of others and myself.

You offer many opinions for consideration here. Thank you. Still wishing you the assurance of our safety and destiny, the very purpose of the Revelation.


The questions I posed are not accusations but a sincere effort to understand the nature and purpose of this topic and your beliefs and opinions regarding the topic - your topic and your claims. Again let me ask:


"Do you fear rebels? Or Cali/Dali? Do they determine either your choices or your outcomes? Are they in charge of your reality? Do you believe they are in charge of Urantia? Do you fear for the future of our world? Is your view of life, your future, our world, its future, and the Revelation itself determined by these anxieties and fears you "share" here so "generously"??"


It is your choice whether to nag the moderators and your discernment that decides when that is justified....not mine.


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maryjo606 wrote:
the fact is that all personalities have always had, and will always have, freewill.


I agree.


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There's no guarantees of anything, given that reality.


Agreed.


Quote:
Nevertheless, we also know that when Jesus was here, he effectively ended the rebellion on Urantia. That is the GOOD news! And this, regarding future rebel activity here

134:8.9 And when Jesus came down from his sojourn on Mount Hermon, the Lucifer rebellion in Satania and the Caligastia secession on Urantia were virtually settled. Jesus had paid the last price required of him to attain the sovereignty of his universe, which in itself regulates the status of all rebels and determines that all such future upheavals (if they ever occur) may be dealt with summarily and effectively.


Let's continue to unpack this revelation. Lucifer's rebellion was an open rebellion that had the potential to infect an entire system. It is this open rebellion, to my understanding, that has ended. And yes! That is gospel!

The rebellion has been closed to the rest of the system, except Urantia. It remains open on our planet; Agents of rebellion continue to push for it in our world, at least up to 1900. I venture to say they continue to do so in our day based on statements made by the revelators.

Quote:
BTW, thanks for such a good discussion...


Thanks!!!!

Question: Michael's supremacy, including the completion of his seventh bestowal, has it been fully established or is it still in the works? Here is a revelation that got me thinking on the issue.

Quote:
128:7.6 (1417.5) Never lose sight of the fact that the prime mission of Jesus in his seventh bestowal was the acquirement of creature experience, the achievement of the sovereignty of Nebadon. And in the gathering of this very experience he made the supreme revelation of the Paradise Father to Urantia and to his entire local universe. Incidental to these purposes he also undertook to untangle the complicated affairs of this planet as they were related to the Lucifer rebellion.

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We know that the Ancients of Days possess the authority to render solutions in the universe which have wide-reaching implications i.e. open and shut.

There is a danger in this speculation, since you are indulging in the admiration of such fellows, solely because of their flaws as distinctive quality. Please let us bring the Spirit of Truth into our present awareness, thus orienting our minds in the appreciation for righteousness. Do you not recall that the living shall judge of themselves in the world to come. There is no insanity in the minds of Caligastia or Daligastia. They will come to justice: they will confront their own self-natures.

If you could see this from the perspective of the thought adjusters who were separated from the corps of 100 ascended beings, sent into the Andonic type of life vessel. That is the strain of hopefullness from afar. What do you think that the former Thought Adjuster of "Tut" or others who went on the path of deception, would believe or say about this?

But not so for us. We are here to be guided by the Thought Adjuster, and we cannot say that the presence and omnipotence of God is away. If you do not understand why it was wrong to abandon the plans for the maturation of the Supreme Manifestation, the revelation of the Supreme Being, then you are tempted to circumvent progress perhaps also. That promise of an easy answer has already led people into environmental waste, vices of commerce and appetite, like a red cape dangled in the guisage of the bull. Is it necessary to break agreements in order to gain the power to do your own will? We are so immature that we have hardly to discover the uniqueness expression of will that springs from each person.

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SEla_Kelly,

Could these archrebels promote sin in humanity?


SEla_Kelly wrote:
We know that the Ancients of Days possess the authority to render solutions in the universe which have wide-reaching implications i.e. open and shut.

There is a danger in this speculation, since you are indulging in the admiration of such fellows, solely because of their flaws as distinctive quality. Please let us bring the Spirit of Truth into our present awareness, thus orienting our minds in the appreciation for righteousness. Do you not recall that the living shall judge of themselves in the world to come. There is no insanity in the minds of Caligastia or Daligastia. They will come to justice: they will confront their own self-natures.

If you could see this from the perspective of the thought adjusters who were separated from the corps of 100 ascended beings, sent into the Andonic type of life vessel. That is the strain of hopefullness from afar. What do you think that the former Thought Adjuster of "Tut" or others who went on the path of deception, would believe or say about this?

But not so for us. We are here to be guided by the Thought Adjuster, and we cannot say that the presence and omnipotence of God is away. If you do not understand why it was wrong to abandon the plans for the maturation of the Supreme Manifestation, the revelation of the Supreme Being, then you are tempted to circumvent progress perhaps also. That promise of an easy answer has already led people into environmental waste, vices of commerce and appetite, like a red cape dangled in the guisage of the bull. Is it necessary to break agreements in order to gain the power to do your own will? We are so immature that we have hardly to discover the uniqueness expression of will that springs from each person.

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brooklyn_born wrote:
Yes, you misunderstand. My position on this subject remains unchanged and is fairly consistent throughout pass and present discussions. I am however amenable when confronted with compelling evidence. Thus far, however, no such evidence to the contrary has been presented to me.

The fact is, Dali- and Cali-gastia continue to roam the system unfettered. They are on our planet seeking to prosecute their nefarious designs. We know Cali-gastia for 1900 years promoted rebel propaganda; he sought to convince men and angels to side with the rebellion.

Is it possible a new generation of rebels has been created? I believe so. I have presented this revelation many times in the past. Here it is again:

53:9.5 (611.4) "... And no more beings have been won to the deceiver’s cause. For nineteen hundred years the status has been unchanged."

We are in 2018. I have asked this question before ---for the past 118 years can one guarantee the status remains unchanged? Absolutely not. No one can claim it as the revelators themselves don't. And why would revelators put in the qualifier, "for nineteen hundred years the status has been unchanged"? Why didn't they just say the status will remain unchanged? Are they hinting something to us?



fanofVan wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
Cali- and Dali-gastia roam the system, not the entire system; the archrebels freely roam Urantia, fully cloaked through the spiritual circuits of the planet.

Urantia, a member of the planetary system:

4:2.2 (56.6) "... your planet and belonging to your immediate planetary system of Satania."



Archrebels unchallenged free rein on Urantia:

53:8.6 (610.2) "... Caligastia and Daligastia... still free on Urantia to prosecute... nefarious designs."



I am confused...so then are there or are there not rebel celestials, many of whom have joined the rebellion in the past century, roaming the system??


The above appears to be quite the equivocation and hair splitting walk back. Perhaps I misunderstand? Are you claiming that all the celestials who joined the rebellion in the last century only roam around Urantia? Sorry....I am not understanding your claim or its many twists and turns.


brooklyn_born wrote:
SEla_Kelly,

Could these archrebels promote sin in humanity?


SEla_Kelly wrote:
We know that the Ancients of Days possess the authority to render solutions in the universe which have wide-reaching implications i.e. open and shut.

There is a danger in this speculation, since you are indulging in the admiration of such fellows, solely because of their flaws as distinctive quality. Please let us bring the Spirit of Truth into our present awareness, thus orienting our minds in the appreciation for righteousness. Do you not recall that the living shall judge of themselves in the world to come. There is no insanity in the minds of Caligastia or Daligastia. They will come to justice: they will confront their own self-natures.

If you could see this from the perspective of the thought adjusters who were separated from the corps of 100 ascended beings, sent into the Andonic type of life vessel. That is the strain of hopefullness from afar. What do you think that the former Thought Adjuster of "Tut" or others who went on the path of deception, would believe or say about this?

But not so for us. We are here to be guided by the Thought Adjuster, and we cannot say that the presence and omnipotence of God is away. If you do not understand why it was wrong to abandon the plans for the maturation of the Supreme Manifestation, the revelation of the Supreme Being, then you are tempted to circumvent progress perhaps also. That promise of an easy answer has already led people into environmental waste, vices of commerce and appetite, like a red cape dangled in the guisage of the bull. Is it necessary to break agreements in order to gain the power to do your own will? We are so immature that we have hardly to discover the uniqueness expression of will that springs from each person.



As I understand it, both Cali and Dali are confined to Urantia...and do not roam the system. Also there is no text which indicates there are or have been any new rebels in the last century. But there has been text provided which says all rebels have been interred with the listed and very few exceptions. Michael is no longer just a Creator Son but is the Master Son of Nebadon, successfully completing all 7 of his incarnations as different creatures of his realm. This is all easily shown in text. Text has also been provided to show that Cali's powers for mischief is very limited and always has been, prior to and especially after Pentacost. The nature of your claimed and so-called "nefarious designs" is certainly open for speculation.


But it should be remembered that Cali and Dali have even less power and influence than a midwayer today and this world is the HQ for the Archangels and billions of Guardian angels and the Corps of Seraphim in charge of our world - it would seem there is ample opposition to Cali. One should also remember that every thought is known upon its thinking to the rulers of creation and so Cali and Dali are pretty well "on the reservation". I have speculated they are on display here, toothless and made to roam without power or authority to show this one time Prince to be without power or effect in the face of reality.


I would not be surprised to learn that this has been the case for every fallen Prince of the rebellion. Isolated and alone on their one time planet or rule....an example to the rest of the beings of Nebadon....and a principal reason why it would be so unlikely for any free will creature to join a rebellion that has been crushed and awaits final adjudication. There is nothing to join and immediate incarceration would now be the result of such foolishness. Very illogical and unreasonable...if one were to believe the UB that is.

You say above: "The fact is, Dali- and Cali-gastia continue to roam the system unfettered. They are on our planet seeking to prosecute their nefarious designs. We know Cali-gastia for 1900 years promoted rebel propaganda; he sought to convince men and angels to side with the rebellion."



Another false claim. NOT A FACT! And we do NOT know any such thing. Please provide text rather than misquoting and misrepresenting the text. No rebels are roaming "the system unfettered". And to whom did Cali promote rebel propaganda exactly? And how and where? Now you are just making stuff up!

8)


Last edited by fanofVan on Tue Sep 11, 2018 3:27 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Text already was provided to you (see: post# 71419)

Here it is one more time:

Originally Lucifer, Satan et. al were allowed to roam the entire system.

Quote:
53:7.15 (609.3) Thus were these archrebels allowed to roam the entire system to seek further penetration for their doctrines of discontent and self-assertion.


After Lucifer, Satan et al. were interned. Cali-gastia and Dali-gastia were allowed to roam the system; their freedom of movement was restricted to Urantia.

Urantia, a member of the planetary system:

Quote:
4:2.2 (56.6) "... your planet and belonging to your immediate planetary system of Satania."



Archrebels unchallenged free rein on Urantia:

Quote:
53:8.6 (610.2) "... Caligastia and Daligastia... still free on Urantia to prosecute... nefarious designs."


If the above does not suffice, then we will have to agree to disagree on this issue. There is no need to make the same request for text.

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Hilarious! So restricted to and isolated on Urantia is to you the same as freely roaming the system? What a stretch.

:roll: :lol: :biggrin: :wink:

Am happy to keep posting the actual text which refutes your claims, beliefs, and worries!

53:8.3 (609.6) The bestowal of Michael terminated the Lucifer rebellion in all Satania aside from the planets of the apostate Planetary Princes. And this was the significance of Jesus’ personal experience, just before his death in the flesh, when he one day exclaimed to his disciples, “And I beheld Satan fall as lightning from heaven.” He had come with Lucifer to Urantia for the last crucial struggle.

53:8.4 (609.7) The Son of Man was confident of success, and he knew that his triumph on your world would forever settle the status of his agelong enemies, not only in Satania but also in the other two systems where sin had entered. There was survival for mortals and security for angels when your Master, in reply to the Lucifer proposals, calmly and with divine assurance replied, “Get you behind me, Satan.” That was, in principle, the real end of the Lucifer rebellion. True, the Uversa tribunals have not yet rendered the executive decision regarding the appeal of Gabriel praying for the destruction of the rebels, but such a decree will, no doubt, be forthcoming in the fullness of time since the first step in the hearing of this case has already been taken.

53:8.6 (610.2) The last act of Michael before leaving Urantia was to offer mercy to Caligastia and Daligastia, but they spurned his tender proffer. Caligastia, your apostate Planetary Prince, is still free on Urantia to prosecute his nefarious designs, but he has absolutely no power to enter the minds of men, neither can he draw near to their souls to tempt or corrupt them unless they really desire to be cursed with his wicked presence.

53:8.7 (610.3) Before the bestowal of Michael these rulers of darkness sought to maintain their authority on Urantia, and they persistently withstood the minor and subordinate celestial personalities. But since the day of Pentecost this traitorous Caligastia and his equally contemptible associate, Daligastia, are servile before the divine majesty of the Paradise Thought Adjusters and the protective Spirit of Truth, the spirit of Michael, which has been poured out upon all flesh.

53:8.8 (610.4) But even so, no fallen spirit ever did have the power to invade the minds or to harass the souls of the children of God. Neither Satan nor Caligastia could ever touch or approach the faith sons of God; faith is an effective armor against sin and iniquity. It is true: “He who is born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one touches him not.”

53:8.9 (610.5) In general, when weak and dissolute mortals are supposed to be under the influence of devils and demons, they are merely being dominated by their own inherent and debased tendencies, being led away by their own natural propensities. The devil has been given a great deal of credit for evil which does not belong to him. Caligastia has been comparatively impotent since the cross of Christ.

53:9.3 (611.2) Michael, upon assuming the supreme sovereignty of Nebadon, petitioned the Ancients of Days for authority to intern all personalities concerned in the Lucifer rebellion pending the rulings of the superuniverse tribunals in the case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer, placed on the records of the Uversa supreme court almost two hundred thousand years ago, as you reckon time. Concerning the system capital group, the Ancients of Days granted the Michael petition with but a single exception: Satan was allowed to make periodic visits to the apostate princes on the fallen worlds until another Son of God should be accepted by such apostate worlds, or until such time as the courts of Uversa should begin the adjudication of the case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer.

53:9.4 (611.3) Satan could come to Urantia because you had no Son of standing in residence—neither Planetary Prince nor Material Son. Machiventa Melchizedek has since been proclaimed vicegerent Planetary Prince of Urantia, and the opening of the case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer has signalized the inauguration of temporary planetary regimes on all the isolated worlds. It is true that Satan did periodically visit Caligastia and others of the fallen princes right up to the time of the presentation of these revelations, when there occurred the first hearing of Gabriel’s plea for the annihilation of the archrebels. Satan is now unqualifiedly detained on the Jerusem prison worlds.

53:9.5 (611.4) Since Michael’s final bestowal no one in all Satania has desired to go to the prison worlds to minister to the interned rebels. And no more beings have been won to the deceiver’s cause. For nineteen hundred years the status has been unchanged.

53:9.6 (611.5) We do not look for a removal of the present Satania restrictions until the Ancients of Days make final disposition of the archrebels. The system circuits will not be reinstated so long as Lucifer lives. Meantime, he is wholly inactive.

53:9.7 (611.6) The rebellion has ended on Jerusem. It ends on the fallen worlds as fast as divine Sons arrive. We believe that all rebels who will ever accept mercy have done so. We await the flashing broadcast that will deprive these traitors of personality existence. We anticipate the verdict of Uversa will be announced by the executionary broadcast which will effect the annihilation of these interned rebels. Then will you look for their places, but they shall not be found. “And they who know you among the worlds will be astonished at you; you have been a terror, but never shall you be any more.” And thus shall all of these unworthy traitors “become as though they had not been.” All await the Uversa decree.

53:9.8 (611.7) But for ages the seven prison worlds of spiritual darkness in Satania have constituted a solemn warning to all Nebadon, eloquently and effectively proclaiming the great truth “that the way of the transgressor is hard”; “that within every sin is concealed the seed of its own destruction”; that “the wages of sin is death.”


8)


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foV,

I will try and explain it this way. Picture a number line:

<--1--2--3--4--5--6--7--8--9--10-->

That number line is likened to an entire system with each point a geographical location or "world"; movement or "roaming" can be experienced at each point. Lucifer is the god of this number line (system). He roams each point at will, pre-rebellion. Lucifer has the power to roam the entire number line (system).

At some point in time, Lucifer rebels. And as a result, is deprived of all rights to roam the entire system; no longer can he roam any point (world) on the number line. His third in command, Cali-gastia, also suffers lost but to a lesser degree. He is allowed to roam only one point (world) on the number line. He is still roaming the number line (system), just not the entire number line (system); he is roaming the number line (system) at one point (world). Remember each point is a world.

Here is another analogy if the first one does not work for you...

The planet has seven continents. For argument's sake the planet is a system of continents. I decide I won't allow foV to roam all the continents of the planet (system). Instead, he has freedom to roam one continent. Are you roaming the system?

That is the best I can do explaining it by analogy.


fanofVan wrote:
Hilarious! So restricted to and isolated on Urantia is to you the same as freely roaming the system? What a stretch.

:roll: :lol: :biggrin: :wink:

Am happy to keep posting the actual text which refutes your claims, beliefs, and worries!

53:8.3 (609.6) The bestowal of Michael terminated the Lucifer rebellion in all Satania aside from the planets of the apostate Planetary Princes. And this was the significance of Jesus’ personal experience, just before his death in the flesh, when he one day exclaimed to his disciples, “And I beheld Satan fall as lightning from heaven.” He had come with Lucifer to Urantia for the last crucial struggle.

53:8.4 (609.7) The Son of Man was confident of success, and he knew that his triumph on your world would forever settle the status of his agelong enemies, not only in Satania but also in the other two systems where sin had entered. There was survival for mortals and security for angels when your Master, in reply to the Lucifer proposals, calmly and with divine assurance replied, “Get you behind me, Satan.” That was, in principle, the real end of the Lucifer rebellion. True, the Uversa tribunals have not yet rendered the executive decision regarding the appeal of Gabriel praying for the destruction of the rebels, but such a decree will, no doubt, be forthcoming in the fullness of time since the first step in the hearing of this case has already been taken.

53:8.6 (610.2) The last act of Michael before leaving Urantia was to offer mercy to Caligastia and Daligastia, but they spurned his tender proffer. Caligastia, your apostate Planetary Prince, is still free on Urantia to prosecute his nefarious designs, but he has absolutely no power to enter the minds of men, neither can he draw near to their souls to tempt or corrupt them unless they really desire to be cursed with his wicked presence.

53:8.7 (610.3) Before the bestowal of Michael these rulers of darkness sought to maintain their authority on Urantia, and they persistently withstood the minor and subordinate celestial personalities. But since the day of Pentecost this traitorous Caligastia and his equally contemptible associate, Daligastia, are servile before the divine majesty of the Paradise Thought Adjusters and the protective Spirit of Truth, the spirit of Michael, which has been poured out upon all flesh.

53:8.8 (610.4) But even so, no fallen spirit ever did have the power to invade the minds or to harass the souls of the children of God. Neither Satan nor Caligastia could ever touch or approach the faith sons of God; faith is an effective armor against sin and iniquity. It is true: “He who is born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one touches him not.”

53:8.9 (610.5) In general, when weak and dissolute mortals are supposed to be under the influence of devils and demons, they are merely being dominated by their own inherent and debased tendencies, being led away by their own natural propensities. The devil has been given a great deal of credit for evil which does not belong to him. Caligastia has been comparatively impotent since the cross of Christ.

53:9.3 (611.2) Michael, upon assuming the supreme sovereignty of Nebadon, petitioned the Ancients of Days for authority to intern all personalities concerned in the Lucifer rebellion pending the rulings of the superuniverse tribunals in the case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer, placed on the records of the Uversa supreme court almost two hundred thousand years ago, as you reckon time. Concerning the system capital group, the Ancients of Days granted the Michael petition with but a single exception: Satan was allowed to make periodic visits to the apostate princes on the fallen worlds until another Son of God should be accepted by such apostate worlds, or until such time as the courts of Uversa should begin the adjudication of the case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer.

53:9.4 (611.3) Satan could come to Urantia because you had no Son of standing in residence—neither Planetary Prince nor Material Son. Machiventa Melchizedek has since been proclaimed vicegerent Planetary Prince of Urantia, and the opening of the case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer has signalized the inauguration of temporary planetary regimes on all the isolated worlds. It is true that Satan did periodically visit Caligastia and others of the fallen princes right up to the time of the presentation of these revelations, when there occurred the first hearing of Gabriel’s plea for the annihilation of the archrebels. Satan is now unqualifiedly detained on the Jerusem prison worlds.

53:9.5 (611.4) Since Michael’s final bestowal no one in all Satania has desired to go to the prison worlds to minister to the interned rebels. And no more beings have been won to the deceiver’s cause. For nineteen hundred years the status has been unchanged.

53:9.6 (611.5) We do not look for a removal of the present Satania restrictions until the Ancients of Days make final disposition of the archrebels. The system circuits will not be reinstated so long as Lucifer lives. Meantime, he is wholly inactive.

53:9.7 (611.6) The rebellion has ended on Jerusem. It ends on the fallen worlds as fast as divine Sons arrive. We believe that all rebels who will ever accept mercy have done so. We await the flashing broadcast that will deprive these traitors of personality existence. We anticipate the verdict of Uversa will be announced by the executionary broadcast which will effect the annihilation of these interned rebels. Then will you look for their places, but they shall not be found. “And they who know you among the worlds will be astonished at you; you have been a terror, but never shall you be any more.” And thus shall all of these unworthy traitors “become as though they had not been.” All await the Uversa decree.

53:9.8 (611.7) But for ages the seven prison worlds of spiritual darkness in Satania have constituted a solemn warning to all Nebadon, eloquently and effectively proclaiming the great truth “that the way of the transgressor is hard”; “that within every sin is concealed the seed of its own destruction”; that “the wages of sin is death.”


8)

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Whatever dude. :roll:

There are 10,000** worlds plus all the architectural worlds in a system. Being isolated on one of those is NOT "roaming the system" by anybody's definition...but your own. Just weird.

** Incorrect. Edited here thanks to Riktare's post below! I appreciate the correction.


1,000 worlds to a System

100,000 worlds to a Constellation

10,000,000 worlds to a Local Universe (Nebadon is such.)

:D 8)


Last edited by fanofVan on Wed Sep 12, 2018 4:45 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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brooklyn_born wrote:
Archrebels unchallenged free rein on Urantia


I don't believe Caligastia and Daligastia are considered arch-rebels by the local and super universe authorities even if one revelator describes Caligastia as such. Otherwise they would have been interned also. From what we are told they are not the authors of the rebellion, merely supporters. They also had one-time jurisdiction over only this planet. Furthermore, there may exist the real possibility that either or both will express remorse or make some form of confession. Whether either would accept mercy is of course a very large uncertainty, but an intriguing one.

Remember too, that our planet has been stripped of rebellious midwayers and angels (which would have been their eyes, ears and means of projecting physical power).


Last edited by Riktare on Wed Sep 12, 2018 12:49 am +0000, edited 2 times in total.

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Aren't there 1000 inhabited planets in a system?


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Riktare wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
Archrebels unchallenged free rein on Urantia


I don't believe Caligastia and Daligastia are considered arch-rebels by the local and super universe authorities even if one revelator describes Caligastia as such in the context of Urantia affairs. Otherwise they would have been interned also. From what we are told they are not the authors of the rebellion, merely supporters. They also had one-time jurisdiction over only this planet. Furthermore, there may exist the real possibility that either or both will express remorse or make some form of confession. Whether either would accept mercy is of course a very large uncertainty, but an intriguing one.

Remember too, that our planet has been stripped of rebellious midwayers and angels (which would have been their eyes, ears and means of projecting physical power).


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I believe it clearly states in the Papers that Jesus ended the Lucifer rebellion with His bestowal, and whatever purpose Cali-Dali have is definitely being permitted, just as the Lucifer rebellion was allowed to run its course.

If I may add this thought regarding these discussions, and if I name names it is just for the sake of simplicity. Bradly, it seems to me that the problem isn't what you say, it is the way you say it that is offensive. Your positions are faithful to the Urantia Book and as such are very enlightening and illuminating but the tone you use is contradictory to the wisdom you share.

BB, you know you are treading on thin ice when you insist on certain positions that ultimately appear to sow doubt, so it shouldn't surprise you when somebody loses their temper. As they say here in Brazil "If you go out in the rain you should expect to get wet".

The two of you united could be a tremendous force for all, because we need to question some things and yet if we get off the foundation our building will crumble.

When I was growing up in the 50s and my brother and I would argue incessantly our father would knock our heads together, and if we "saw stars" it was the beginning of seeing the light of how annoying we were and how inconsiderate we were of those around us. Of course corporal punishment like that is frowned upon today but my brother and I soon learned not to bicker.

I sincerely hope that you two will learn not to bicker as well, because all can benefit from your combined knowledge, but no one benefits from your clashes.


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pethuel wrote:
I believe it clearly states in the Papers that Jesus ended the Lucifer rebellion with His bestowal, and whatever purpose Cali-Dali have is definitely being permitted, just as the Lucifer rebellion was allowed to run its course.

If I may add this thought regarding these discussions, and if I name names it is just for the sake of simplicity. Bradly, it seems to me that the problem isn't what you say, it is the way you say it that is offensive. Your positions are faithful to the Urantia Book and as such are very enlightening and illuminating but the tone you use is contradictory to the wisdom you share.

BB, you know you are treading on thin ice when you insist on certain positions that ultimately appear to sow doubt, so it shouldn't surprise you when somebody loses their temper. As they say here in Brazil "If you go out in the rain you should expect to get wet".

The two of you united could be a tremendous force for all, because we need to question some things and yet if we get off the foundation our building will crumble.

When I was growing up in the 50s and my brother and I would argue incessantly our father would knock our heads together, and if we "saw stars" it was the beginning of seeing the light of how annoying we were and how inconsiderate we were of those around us. Of course corporal punishment like that is frowned upon today but my brother and I soon learned not to bicker.

I sincerely hope that you two will learn not to bicker as well, because all can benefit from your combined knowledge, but no one benefits from your clashes.


Thanks for the counsel and I appreciate the sentiment. Personally I do not agree that TruthBook benefits from BB's "knowledge". BB has beliefs and opinions which conflict with and contradict the UB and cast doubt and dispersion upon the UB. He used to but no longer hides his disdain and distrust of the UB and he twists and torments its contents beyond recognition and declares his beliefs are not up for question!!

If it were not for Agon D. Onter here, it is my belief that the mods and most all others here would just allow BB and others who do not believe the UB or its authors claims of authority and factuality to post whatever contradictions they wished without challenge or correction. It has not been that way here in all the time I've been here. This site is supposed to be where NEW SINCERE STUDENTS can come to learn about the UB along side seasoned and well read students who are primarily here to help new sincere students to LEARN about the contents and teachings of the UB...not the disbelief, opinions, theories, and beliefs of others. What does BB's contrary contradictions contribute to that objective?

I am glad for the kahanya/BB's and loucol/JohnnyBones/MannyC/toto/Louis's and Caligastia/Midichlorian's who have posted here over the years (the connected names are each the same poster who has been here multiple times under different names - loucol, JohnnyBones, MannyC, toto, and Caligastia (yes indeed!) were all kicked off by the prior mods...but return time after time skulking in under a new name (I don't know why BB changed his name here and do not believe he was asked to leave by the mods). There were some real donnybrooks with those guys and some others who's agendas were to save us UB readers from the devil who wrote it or to convert us to their preferred beliefs and books or to impress us with their connections to the gods and spirits as reservists who declined fusion to serve the world and save us all or convince us of the unreliability of the authors and text and sow doubt and discourse in the community or merely seek out an audience for their own very special opinions, beliefs, fables, fantasies, declarations, etc. Why were so many here booted by the mods (my estimate is 10-20 in 6 years)? For their consistent misquoting and falsification of the UB text and their apparent agenda to sow doubt and confusion and discord among the student body here.


I have been known here to lose my patience with such ones...this is true but I am not the only one. I am not an angry person. I have a deep and abiding contentment and confidence in my life and destiny. I hope only the same for all others. And have never here asked the mods to silence or boot any other poster....no matter their views or words. I like to use those who care more about their own opinions, beliefs, and declarations than they do the actual contents of the UB as a method of personal and community study and discourse to learn more about what the UB actually says and teaches. Not once did any mod here ever threaten my posting privileges. It has happened now multiple times in the recent past.


I don't know how long I'll remain or be allowed to. The site is in a season of adjustment and orientation. Like you, Maryjo finds BB's posts "interesting". But many of us here have known kahanya/BB's voice for a long time. It is not new or unknown. His perspective is consistant. He has recently disclosed and personally articulated his lack of belief and confidence in the text and his belief in many errors and his doubts, etc. He is an experienced reader who's opinions and beliefs contradict the UB in many ways. But who says so? BB's reputation is posting sensationalism and provocation and seeking ways to question the contents and the authors of the Revelation and sow doubt and discord. Is there reincarnation? Do rebels roam the system? Etc., etc., etc. According to bb, yes indeed.

Is this his motive or just his result? I don't know. But it is unlikely we will become a "team" as I am a believer in the Revelation and a literalist who thinks the UB speaks clearly for itself. That makes one of us between the two of us. Not on the same team here at this study group created by my fellow believers in the Revelation and built for the sincere study of a book....and not the opinions, ideas, beliefs, and declarations of those who do NOT believe the book called TruthBook.

Just to be clear, I do consider BB a fellow God believer and Paradise pilgrim and we share the trail to Havona. But this is a study group of that which I believe and he says he does not. We have shared this site too for many years. We know each other to the degree one can by reading thousands of words and hundreds of posts on dozens of topics. We don't agree on much.


All are welcome here. One does not need to believe the claims of the authors to join in the sincere study of the UB. But what is sincere or where is the study that year after year continues to conflict with and contradict the very text we are here to study? Is TruthBook a platform for such voices? Or a study group of the UB? It cannot be both...or not for long.

I do know that sufficient tolerance of poison in this well of truth seekers will result in a well that offers no nourishment. Disbelief and doubt and contradiction must be dealt with...by somebody. I'd prefer it be met by many somebodies including the mods. We shall see. It certainly has been an awesome community and team effort over the years.

Anyway....apologies for my rancor. I'm getting older and perhaps more impatient and growl too much as I grizzle. Hahahaha. I will attempt to regain my humor and patience. But I will never be silent when those who sow seeds of doubt and confusion and fear post that which contradicts that text which we are here to study together. We shall see.

I appreciate the compliments and the rebuke pethuel. Happy trails. 8)


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