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Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:13 am +0000
Posts: 1101
Location: Denver CO
To All...

I hope that all of you can bear with me for this one last post, trying to explain in as clear a way as I can why naming names, why questioning motives, is counter-productive, and why these things are frowned-upon. I apologize to brooklyn_born for diverting the thread even further, but I hope to air out this issue once and for all.

fanofVan, you write:

In the hope of better understanding, please describe the words in the first paragraph you find so "incendiary". How does recognition of BB's own words describing his personal disbelief and skepticism "incendiary"? He has made such self described statements himself and here and recently. How is restating his words and description of his position considered name calling or personal or inappropriate? Please help me understand this. I made no accusations. How would anyone else describe the 3 declarations and question listed above, and bb's attitude toward the UB in this thread?

And here's that "incendiary" quote:

I find the ideas and opinions and inferences made here by the originator to illustrate his well known and self defined and personally declared skepticism and disbelief of the Revelation and his own determination that the UB should not be read or studied literally or as book of facts and knowledge...clearly so and repeatedly on many occasions and topics recently and over the years....a difference of opinion with Maryjo who apparently finds nothing skeptical from a well known and self described skeptic.

This is my attempt to help you understand, as you have requested, fanofVan. Maybe you made no overt accusations, but you did name names and raise unnecessary suspicions about particular people. This is not permitted. And in my view it IS incendiary, meaning that it can inflame others in a defensive manner, causing discord. Had it not been been included, perhaps things might have taken a better turn. Because as mentioned, the remainder of your post was generally speaking, quite a good analysis of your opinion about the IDEAS.

To someone just happening on this thread - a new reader, say, or someone unfamiliar with this Forum, reading something like this statement above might be seen as a warning that there is some ill will here. It names names; it says to a new reader that BB - and MaryJo - might be people who are skeptics, or who suffer skeptics; it unfairly raises a flag of suspicion about people that need not be raised. And what is so skeptical about the questions that were originally raised? I thought they were valid questions, given the accompanying text.

Why open those doors in the first place? Why not leave personal opinions about others unsaid and allow others to form their own opinions? You come across as something of an authority here, fanoVan - and not without reason. Your posts are often excellent; but then so are the posts of others with whom you have had very public issues in other threads - people who I consider equally excellent stewards of the teachings in their own right and with their unique perspectives; people who you have called out by name as less-than-worthy, or lacking in some way insofar as their purpose, character, and motive. This is not new behavior, and it always seems to throw cold water on discussion of ideas.

You want to know how anyone can possibly think something different than you about "the 3 declarations and question" in b_b's post. Here's how. And it's about more than just that:

If one reads this entire thread from the beginning, it is clear to see that the text has been included throughout - and then the accusations begin, because the poster says something like "I guess we'll let the SoT and the TA work out the whole mess." And the word "mess" was glommed onto and we were off and running on page one... now on Page three, it is still in process, while the topic has been pretty much lost, in favor of this back-and-forth. But not everyone agrees with you or your style of confrontation. The original poster obviously does not and has effectively excused himself as a result of all this wrangling, and we've also lost one of our newest members in this thread, too, as the "heat" got too high. And others have contacted me personally about this thread. Carefully going over the thread should help all of us see how things got out of hand.

I probably should have just locked the thread ... but I hope that maybe this is an opportunity to help all of us see how these things start, and how to circumvent them before they do start.

Above all, this forum is a reflection of TruthBook - and TruthBook is primarily a showcase for not only the teachings of The Urantia Book, but more especially the teachings of Jesus. I should think that we all might find it unacceptable to display these unfortunate episodes of personality clashes to the world at large. But I also hope that to someone reading this thread, we might be seen as a group that can mend fences, that can exhibit brotherhood and kindness, that can model behavior worthy of Kingdom-dwellers.

The Master exhorted his followers to adhere to the Rule of Living - his exalted version of the Golden Rule - which asks that we treat others as we think he might treat them. Elsewhere, he admonishes John about the strange preacher: "...in matters of this sort it would be better for you to reckon that he who is not against us is for us." Can't we reckon the same about each other here?

The strange preacher was claiming to cast out devils; I don't think that anyone's behavior here on this thread rises to anything near that level.


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Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 5:02 am +0000
Posts: 937
Location: Brooklyn NY

I really appreciate that you are taking time to monitor these threads and ensure the TOS is adhered to. I want to say if you deem the thread needs to be locked, I fully understand.

BB, the Urantian Gnostic606

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Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 4453
Thank you Maryjo for your patience and counsel. I will reflect upon its wisdom for a season and consider how I might correct and improve my position here as a fellow student of and believer in the Revelation. It has been my intention here over the years to fully support and serve the Revelation itself, its study and dissemination, and the guidelines here at this study group of the Revelation.

In my opinion the only "authority" here is the Revelation...and not my understanding of it. I am quite confident in its voice and ability to speak for itself. It is important that I learn better how to present its contents and teachings here and everywhere in ways which also reflect the Master's teaching regarding the wisdom of serpents and the innocence of doves.

This is especially true, if more difficult, in response to those I believe to be contradicting, misstating, or otherwise distorting the Truth Book....which has never been uncommon here. Many come here with a variety of motives and agendas that are in conflict with the Guidelines here at this "study" group and do not hope or seek to "study" at all.

I wish you well personally as you learn to discover and deal with those as you guide and shepherd this fold and flock of students and protect us from the wolves of detractors, debunkers , doubters, and sowers of doubt and suspicions and conspiracy...who have also attended here since TruthBook's very beginning...some in very fine sheep's clothing - such discernment also part of the wise as a serpent teaching.

Funny thing about the crazy preacher....I don't recall the Master providing the audience, pulpit, and silent endorsement of him or anyone else who twisted, defied, or doubted his Gospel - the 4th Epochal Revelation. He did require the crazy preacher to find his own followers and stump I think. And when it came to those who defied the truth of the gospel and sought to control or confuse the flock of believers with guile and cleverness, I recall to them he declared "he who is not with me is against me". Jesus was no pacifist or tolerant of the enemies or distorsionists of the good news...but he was far wiser in his responses to turn them away from falsehoods.

An interesting topic and lengthy discussion on both quotes begun by Enno/nod here awhile back. A good study. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5392

Best wishes Maryjo and thanks again.


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