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maryjo606 wrote:
I want to just weigh in here. I have to agree with Jim George on the point, as over the past few days, I have witnessed so many combative exchanges...so much accusation and sarcasm with little attempt to truly understand. I will not name names, but maybe all of us can examine our past responses and see if that shoe fits.

I would hope that we all could agree that we are brothers and sisters - the family of God above all. We should not ever be attacking one another, as this seems to make the assumption that there are some of us here who are not trying to do the right thing.

Please, before attacking someone's heartfelt posts, add a little sweetness to your replies and try to understand, rather than accuse. As someone recently pointed out, this forum is viewed by more people than those who actually take part. If I was a new reader, I would be very reluctant to weigh in after reading some of these exchanges. Remember that one of the cardinal attributes of the Master was his sincere friendliness.



Well....we've all had most of a week now to reflect upon this post by Maryjo...and I will share some thoughts.

I heartily agree that sarcasm and meanness are counterproductive to any serious discussion and are not particularly helpful in a playful or humorous exchange either. And I am not innocent of their use or I should say misuse...and should be called out on it when guilty.

Maryjo posts: "We should not ever be attacking one another, as this seems to make the assumption that there are some of us here who are not trying to do the right thing."



I find this to be rather naive and misguided and blind to the fact of a long history of posters, topics, and posts here at TB by some who are obviously "not trying to do the right thing". If by the right thing, you mean to learn, share, discuss, and understand the UB rather than to disrupt, create doubts, contradict, and deliver chaos and confusion to the student body here...as has been well documented over the years here by some.

As to the friendliness of Jesus...hmmmmm….a nice ideal to be sure....but even Jesus was not amused by nor patient with those who persistently contradicted truth and promoted falsehood, distortions, doubt, and chaos or those whose presumed piety was really sanctimonious self importance. Certainly the Master was wiser than any here in proactively responding to evil and unrighteousness...but he was never passive to such nonsense either. Indignation was not unknown to the Son of Man and neither was frustration. Let us not ignore the humanity of Jesus or the example of the Apostles who walked with him. We should have and seek ideals....true enough. What was that you said earlier about shaming others? To so compare me and my failures with Jesus seems to be a shaming of your own here Maryjo.


Posters here, over time, present perspectives which become well known to others and which are so often repeated that it is simply impossible to respond in some type of vacuum, as though it were their first words and every post must be presumed to have no relevance to all prior posts. Just because you are unfamiliar with and apparently indifferent to such history Maryjo does not make it irrelevant nor unfactual. You have said you do not consider historical posts (the past) relevant...an odd perspective IMO. Especially when the current posts contain and reflect continuity or prior poster perspective, attitude, opinion, belief, and conclusion. And most especially, perhaps, when it does not! When nuance and angle and scope increase and paradigms shift!


For my part, I can say confidently that Jim, Agon, Makalu, and Riktare are among those posters here who have added to and challenged and changed my own perspective and appreciation of the UB and of truth and have helped me to reflect and reconsider and grow by their many contributions here....perhaps more often when we disagree than otherwise....I have come to depend on them and welcome their posts.


Makalu has been rather fiesty on this topic toward my and Agon's view....but only by its intense sincerity of his perceived importance of the issue I think. And to his point, I completely agree that our personal religious experience becomes most meaningful and progressive and fruitful upon our intentional and conscious decision to transfer the seat of our identity. No one has suggested others be complacent in their own pursuit of God or happiness or survival or progress. We argue a speculation that is not well articulated or defined and settled in the UB and both "sides" have some passion about it...but neither side thinks the other to be in eternal jeopordy...so far as I can tell anyway.

NOTE: Edit here by moderator by permission of poster.


As far as SEla goes....well...I will say that over the years Stephen has shown himself to be sincerely devoted to an appreciation of the UB and it has obviously helped guide his perspective of reality and his journey as a pilgrim of time to Paradise. I cannot say I understand much of what he posts often enough and some of that also appears to conflict with and even directly contradict the text we study and share here together. And I have been mean and sarcastic to him here on this topic he started and am regretful and sorrowful for that. I can do better...and I apologise Stephen. I appreciate your own acknowledgement of your failed attempt here to support an invented theory that is not supported by the UB. Thank you for that! I will learn better to be more friendly in our disagreements and discussions in the future.


And now I shall leave this topic to those of you who have more to say on the matter....as I do not.


Bradly 8)


Last edited by fanofVan on Tue Jul 03, 2018 10:47 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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While I agree, of course, with Maryjo's statement that we are all brothers and sisters; I would add that we are all adults. As adults, we are most certainly capable of handling some adversity and opposition to our personal ideas, perspectives and opinions.

And, as adults, we are also very capable, with the assistance of our Thought Adjusters, of discerning Truth from Horse Feathers.


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To fanofVan, and Agon D. Onter,

Your replies to my post are noted.

To be more clear, I would ask that all posters please review the Public Forum Poster Guidelines & Rules here:

https://truthbook.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3582

and more specifically this item included under "Please do not":

Quote:
5. Use language that is inconsistent with our community standards as a family friendly site, including the use of sarcasm directed at any individual personality, insinuations that call into question another person's motives, swear words or profanity. Ad Hominem attacks are also discouraged, and will - most likely - lead to post deletions, locked threads, and even the removal of posting privileges.


NOTE: the term "Ad Hominem" in Rule #5 is directed to this page at Wikipedia for definition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Thanks...

MaryJo


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As far as "reflexive" response patterns of the human individual, I would say not enough to constitute a choice. The "reflexes" can only be interpreted as the manifest behaviour which evidences the deeper psychological motive (i.e. an underlaying choice) sometimes. You can have a choice made a long long time ago, say, but then there are many mannerisms and habits and traits which are merely the logical extenuation of that choice.



I said that I have failed at explaining my theory. You interpret this as my having failed at "inventing" this theory. I guess I will not be able to explain to you that my theory is not merely contrived. Tif I could speak more concisely and with better timing perhaps I will be worthy of consideration in the future.

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to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


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SEla_Kelly wrote:
I said that I have failed at explaining my theory. You interpret this as my having failed at "inventing" this theory. I guess I will not be able to explain to you that my theory is not merely contrived. Tif I could speak more concisely and with better timing perhaps I will be worthy of consideration in the future.



Greetings SEla. Do you not recall this post of yours?

"Yikes, but ok.

I made an error by misstating "mind" and instead of what the Urantia Paper actually stated "human personality".

This topic may be an example of when a person attempts to use religious theory to fit one's personal interpretation. I will go through the list you made me again. It is indeed shameful to misstate the actual pronouncements or essence of UB.

I acted combatively or retortfully. And this is what paved the way for my own ignorance to become stretched by the desire to prove my theory. That is probably easy to observe."


Me here: Well said. I agree with your assessment. But I still await your stated intention to "go through the list (I) made (you) again." Here it is for your consideration:

"The UB is written with great specificity and is not a comic book or fairy tale for the rewording or rearrangement or any other form of falsification by its humanization and telling by us students. Words have meanings and any who deform, distort, or otherwise misstate the text do it no favors...nor do they help in any way any other students of the UB who seek knowledge and an understanding of the teachings.

1. There is no "coordinate" near the solar plexus wherein the TA and the core of Paradise or the Grand Universe resides - as you falsely claim.
2. The individual mortal or celestial being do not constitute a universe of their own - as you falsely claim.
3. Paradise is not within each of us - as you falsely claim.
4. Life is not an automatic function and does not proceed purely from the unconcsious - as you falsely claim.
5. The consecration of mind or will does not mean a life of agony - as you falsely claim.
6. All persons are not indistinguishable from the totality of the universe - as you falsely claim.
7. Heaven does not mean universe and the universe is not within ye...or me...as you falsely claim.
8. The TA's never receive permission to start new colonies containing Paradise at its core - as you falsely claim.
9. Agondonter does not originate from the word agony - as you falsely claim.
10. Paradise gravity is not a condition and you have not seen any woman or child (not men?) who has Paradise gravity - as you falsely claim.
11. The adjutants do not saturate mortals or make us compatible with the central universe - as you falsely claim.
12. You do not grasp Paradise Gravity - as you falsely claim.
13. The fruits of the Spirit do not originate from the adjutants - as you falsely claim."


I appreciate your acknowledgment and statement earlier: "It is indeed shameful to misstate the actual pronouncements or essence of UB."


Now you appear to be equivocating and choosing to ignore the many forms of misstatement that have been recorded here - and pointed out - and acknowledged by you already. All of the above points are well documented within the UB for our mutual discovery and discussion as you would like to SEla. No need for a theory, contrived or otherwise, which clearly conflicts with and even contradicts the text we share and study here together, when any and all of the several topics introduced can be studied and verified by the text itself...is there?


Perhaps questions rather than theories is a better approach for the student to take. Instead of theoretical constructs and declarations posted, why not share concepts from the UB and questions about the UB which is what one might expect of a student who sincerely seeks an understanding of and/or the personal expression of understanding of the teachings we share here.

So far here you have made 14+ declarations/claims which contradict the UB to support your theoretical construct and conclusion given to us in the title of this topic. Can a truthful or meaningful conclusion be based upon such an infrastructure of confusing declarations and falsehoods? No. These are but the misunderstandings and misconceptions of a personal opinion which "...misstate the actual pronouncements...of the UB." as you put it.


One who hoped to learn and consider concepts and perspective might, for example, ask an interesting question which could lead to a discussion of many elements within your theory such as: What is meant by the phrase "Let us make mortal man in our own image."??


Nowhere is it said the gods made the human individual as a model of the Grand Universe....but they did determine to make us in their own image...what's that mean?


:wink:


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