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An open forum for general discussions of a spiritual nature where guests and readers entertain the teachings of The Urantia Book.
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Reality always is reality

Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:22 pm +0000

For many years I have sought to identify with the different author’s perspectives of the universe they describe in Urantia Papers as unique from each other. Personally, I always have liked the papers written by the Melchizedeks because I find them extraordinarily informative and understandable. But while there are no authors I don’t like to read, there are some that I find more comprehendible. I believe I am learning to appreciate the differences in the author’s spiritual perspectives. At least that is my intent here.

22.2.3 “Every ascendant mortal of insurrectionary experience who functions loyally in the face of rebellion is eventually destined to become a Mighty Messenger of the superuniverse service. Likewise is any ascendant creature who effectively prevents such upheavals of error, evil, or sin; for action designed to prevent rebellion or to effect higher types of loyalty in a universe crisis is regarded as of even greater value than loyalty in the face of actual rebellion.”

While it isn’t made completely clear whether or not this is speaking of all who are called Agondonters elsewhere, surely there are, or have been some on this planet who would qualify. According to this paper, one of the inevitable opportunities available to those of us who experience the overcoming rebellion is an event in our spiritual growth described as the “Trinity Embrace”. By this experience we become Trinitized Sons of God. If it is true, as stated in the Urantia Book, that personality is changeless, that the individual identity we are now and are becoming will always be identifiable as the same person we are now, regardless of where or when that now is in our universe career, then it only makes sense to assume that the authors who are identified as Mighty Messengers, One Without Name and Number and One High in Authority are the same persons, that is they are identifiable as same people they were when they were human. And that is the point I am trying to make.

I am of the opinion that one of the reasons many of us enjoy reading Part 4 so much is because of the intellectual and spiritual similarity we sense to the Midwayers. In other words, it isn’t merely the subject we like, it is the similarity with our appreciation of things. Likewise, we can identify with the human personality perspective in the papers written by Mighty Messengers, One Without Name and Number and One High in Authority but there seems to me to be a potential spiritual realization in these that is not available in the Midwayer papers. It is this I wish to discuss. These Trinity Sons seem more to me like brothers who are really, really smart. Midwayers seem like brothers who think much the same as we do. The difference is noticeable to me. But by both I am able to triangulate an idea of reality that I wish to share.

22.2.9 “Mighty Messengers are fully conscious of their entire ascendant careers, and that is why they are such useful and sympathetic ministers, understanding messengers, for service on any world of space and to any creature of time. As soon as you are delivered from the flesh, you will communicate freely and understandingly with us since we spring from all the races on all the evolutionary worlds of space, that is, from those mortal races that are indwelt by, and subsequently fused with, Thought Adjusters.”

This amazing statement reveals a connection which is quite telling. We can communicate quite freely and here is the key word, “understandingly” with them. Understandingly, I submit, because we are from the same stock. They have experienced the reality of the perspective of human being and they retain conscious appreciation of that experience. There is a unique potential realization in our experience then that makes this significant. Now remember, we pick up on the Mansion Worlds right where we left off here, so our intellectual level then, and by reference now, is sufficient to enable us to attain understanding with a Mighty Messenger, a Trinity Embraced being of attainment. Obviously, we cannot communicate directly with them now as we are material beings separated by an unassailable, except by death, gulf from spiritual but intellectually we can appreciate their writings in the Urantia Book. That communication is a revelation in itself.

Here is the main point I am attempting to make. Our ability to know and appreciate the reality of God while human, is revealed in this similarity. We are becoming like them, step by step, and like God, step by step, and the more willing we are to allow ourselves to realize that, the more like them we become. This is real. Experiencing the reality of all this is not merely for the future, it is for the here and now, if we are willing. Connecting the dots, actually and literally connects the dots. The dots are the same dots as there is no alternative future reality for us to know. We can always and only know the reality of now, but the reality of now expands to include what we now call future. That the Mighty Messengers are farther along in this process doesn’t preclude their being able to be with us where we are and to reveal to us that the perspective of reality experienceable while human is eternally real and significant.

Anyway, something to think about.


Re: Reality always is reality

Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:29 pm +0000

Hi Jim,

It's been too long.

I've also been quite fascinated with what is inferred by the Mighty Messenger who wrote what he or she said in 22.2:3

When the MM said "functions loyally in the face of rebellion" do you think this is rebellion like it was at the onset of the planetary rebellion like it was two hundred thousand years ago, or could this be a matter much smaller and more personal? Like if you were under the influence of someone very close to you, like a family member especially a parent, or a business associate who might provide an opportunity for promotion, but nefariously, offering a reward to knowingly do the wrong thing, either to yourself or another person.

In other words, I'm wondering if the fullness of spiritual rebellion can be a much smaller thing than it needing to be on a broader scale and still be rebellion in the same sense as the MM was referring to it. Then likewise of course, if this is true, then will it apply the same way in preventing rebellion but on a smaller scale. Are these the qualifications the MM is talking about?

Of course the key phrase here would have to be "universe crisis" but how can we be sure that if we may have prevented someone from entering into rebellion against God that that same person, if not prevented from falling, may have been a factor in steering events tragically otherwise which may have ended up being a universe crisis later, except that we would never have known because of it having been prevented.

I'm probably not making what I'm trying to get at very clear.


Your last statement:

"That the Mighty Messengers are farther along in this process doesn’t preclude their being able to be with us where we are and to reveal to us that the perspective of reality experienceable while human is eternally real and significant."

Now that's interesting. But I'm not sure what you mean when you say "doesn’t preclude their being able to be with us where we are"

It's good to have this forum up and running again!

Re: Reality always is reality

Sun Oct 29, 2017 4:20 pm +0000

Good to hear from you as well, Nod.

That statement is intended to portray the continuity of consciousness of reality from now to forever. The Mighty Messengers are way beyond us but they are fully conscious of their humanity. And in that they are able to see and experience the similarity of truth, beauty and goodness.

Sometimes I find an implied sense in comments here that we will find things so very different when we get to the Mansion Worlds. I wonder if maybe all we are going to find is that we are able to experience more of the same at the same time and with the additional concepts of spiritual reality we maintain a commonness with what we already know as real. That is why I say real is real forever.


Re: Reality always is reality

Sun Oct 29, 2017 8:55 pm +0000

The possibilities of experiences are endless.

Imagine having a conversation with someone who lived smack dab in the middle of a rebellion. I would have as many questions for them as I would if I were talking with Jesus himself.

This book never ceases to astound me.

The religious life is the path to reality, the more our efforts are consecrated toward all things spiritual, the more valuable life becomes and hence, the more REAL.

Thanks Jim for the thread.


Re: Reality always is reality

Tue Oct 31, 2017 6:16 am +0000

Thanks Jim for prompting us to remember that the UB provides a glimpse of what it means to be human, looking at the end from the beginning.

I sometimes ponder this when things become compressed and stressful, if I remember to, and it always calms me to know that reality today will still be reality in the future except that the accumulation of life's experiences by that time, will have changed us for the better and then some I suppose.

I wonder what it will be like to look back in the far distant future to where we are now. I'm pretty sure it will be more like a revelation towards the future instead of an understanding of the past.

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