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nodAmanaV wrote:


This is why in order to get the angle right, it's important to be sure not to miss the moment when the trajectory must be set up, and instead, find ourselves fiddling around with the Urantia Book.


So why are you posting on this forum, Enno, 'fiddling around with the Urantia Book' with the rest of us lackadaisical, poor, misled souls? Shouldn't you be busy setting trajectories and stuff?

By the way, I reject your notion that "It was Jesus' destiny to leave this world and return to his place on high. I'm sure you'll all agree, his dematerialization ought to have been accomplished by other means." Michael knew exactly what would happen when he chose Urantia for his 7th bestowal and he was certainly capable of leaving this world at any time and in any form he wished. He suffered one of the most painful and horrendous (and yes, unjust) deaths one can imagine *for a reason*. He did so to demonstrate to all of us that he suffers as we do; that he feels pain and endures injustice, humiliation, unfairness, bullying, agonizing physical and emotional pain just as we do. After all, part of his bestowal mission here was to experience what life is like for Urantia mortals and to truly understand our struggles and tribulations.

When we suffer, we can take comfort in knowing that Jesus also suffered and that our Spirits can endure, just as his endures.

(I learned that from fiddling around with the Urantia Book. :( )


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Agon D. Onter wrote:
So why are you posting on this forum, Enno, 'fiddling around with the Urantia Book'


So I can find some mates and form a band.


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There are 3 keys to the kingdom of heaven. Do you know what they are?
















1. sincerity
2. more sincerity
3. more sincerity


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What's your point?


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His point is your lack of sincerity in oh so many posts. Duh.

Riktare wrote:
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If we accept the challenge, then God will do the rest....or so I understand.


Or rather "God will lead the way". Our contribution may not necessarily be passive.


Of course you're right Riktare! What I meant by "if we accept the challenge" - the challenge is twofold: Have we yet committed to the Will of God consciously and purposefully? If so, then get busy!!! Circle progress is circle 'work'. Can't get it done sitting on the seat of our identity but only by transferring the seat of our identity. No one may be idle and work in the kingdom. Very true. There's nothing "passive" about being in the kingdom or making circle progress. Takes endless decisions with utmost sincerity. We are to learn to feast and fatten on our disappointments and uncertainties. Adventure demands uncertainty but there is no adventure in idleness! Indeed, it is better to do something and have it be wrong than to do nothing at all....error leads to correction. For those who await certainty or hesitate for calibration, well........

48:7.13 (556.13) 11. The weak indulge in resolutions, but the strong act. Life is but a day’s work — do it well. The act is ours; the consequences God’s.

Enno...I have no idea dude why you think I wish harm or might harm any other being of any order anywhere at any time for any reason. Preposterous.

Your rocketry analogy is already off course too. Not what life is like at all. It is not what you do but why you do what you do that's important. The nature of evolutionary will creatures guarantees your vectors and angles and thrust, etc. are inaccurate, incomplete, partial, and will require constant adjustment during flight....it's called experience and experiential wisdom. Many of us who "fiddle" with the book have already launched Enno and we're very busy working in the kingdom right now and have been for some time. Perhaps it's time you quit calibrating yourself and just lit the fuse? You'll get nowhere until you do.

Our world is not diseased and Michael chose or at least allowed his end....everyone's a victim, eh? The world is improving, advancing, progressing, and evolving....this is the natural order of the universe of time and space. No short cuts, no miracles, signs, wonders, raptures, armagedons, celestial bailouts, celestial takeovers, or any other thing that circumvents the evolutionary will creatures' choosing over time and experience. So, evidently you cannot see the progress over time on Urantia? You also do not understand the basic principles of evolution, free will, and the planetary mortal epochs. And apparently you do not understand the power of the Son of God/Son of Man over his own destiny, ministry, and mortality.

Perhaps you are not fiddling enough with your copy of the Revelation, that is based on your lack of understanding some very fundamental teachings and facts well presented, and redundantly so, in the Papers.

Such a student lacking so much knowledge might consider asking questions and studying the text - rather than make wild declarations which directly contradict the text. Or one might say - this what the text says but I disagree. You're misrepresentations and misstatements and contradictions of the text might give a thinking person pause. Just sayin'.....

So you are wiser than Christ Michael (Master Son of God, Creator of this world) and Jesus (Son of Man)??? You say: "I'm sure you'll all agree, his dematerialization ought to have been accomplished by other means." Another preposterous presumption only someone with great self-superiority might claim! Wiser than Christ! Good Grief. No, I do not agree. And if Michael had agreed then he would have made another choice. Can you hear yourself?


48:7.14 (556.14) 12. The greatest affliction of the cosmos is never to have been afflicted. Mortals only learn wisdom by experiencing tribulation.

Your displeasure and disappointment with God is quite the affliction....hope you get over it.

Brings up an interesting paradox for tadpoles though. It's something every truth seeker goes through I think - usually early in the search. It is quite common to blame God for suffering. It's not unusual to become angry at God for all the suffering He does not end and allows to continue. So, Jesus said God is not angry but loving. But why then suffering? How is that love?

If you'd like to discuss that topic, there's lots of text that specifically addresses why there is suffering, what is its purpose, and how do we end it - for ourselves and our world. For some of us, getting mad at God is an important first step in finding Him. To forgive God for our suffering may lead to looking more kindly at all other children as we come to better understand the choices of others and the true cause of suffering. For your disgust at God's world, the Shrine of Nebadon, cannot come without such indictments of Him and those who created, minister to, and serve our world.

Do you think God wants to kill you too? Or have you suffer? Is He indifferent to your cries there Job? Do you know how to stop your suffering? There are many in the world who know and many who have stopped their own and serve to relieve that of others....it's a spiritual thing.

While a planet is not a human being, such an analogy does offer some clues to suffering. Now an individual reduces suffering by transforming motive, intent, priority, and choice with purpose and dedication to the Spirit guide within. But this transformation requires endless decisions, corrections, disappointments, uncertainties, failures, etc. It requires it. It takes time. We must shift our identity from the material self to the spirit self. It's an experiential evolutionary process that takes many years. Now for a world, it takes tens or hundreds of thousands of generations - even on the best of worlds where everything goes as planned does it still take well over a million years or even two million.

Disappointment, blame, frustration, and impatience will not make either transformation one second shorter. But keep calculating that trajectory there dude....whatever floats your boat!

:roll:


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fanofVan wrote:
Your displeasure and disappointment with God is quite the affliction....hope you get over it.


fanofVan wrote:
Do you think God wants to kill you too? Or have you suffer? Is He indifferent to your cries there Job? Do you know how to stop your suffering? There are many in the world who know and many who have stopped their own and serve to relieve that of others....it's a spiritual thing.


fanofVan wrote:
Perhaps it's time you quit calibrating yourself and just lit the fuse? You'll get nowhere until you do.


fanofVan wrote:
Your rocketry analogy is already off course too. Not what life is like at all.


I could go on quoting you Bradly. Do you know that the opposite of sincerity is condescension?!


What I see in your quotes Bradly is ...
1. condescension
2. more condescension
3. more condescension.


nodAmanaV wrote:
Agon D. Onter wrote:
So why are you posting on this forum, Enno, 'fiddling around with the Urantia Book'


So I can find some mates and form a band.


I know Enno and there is more sincerity in his reply here than in all of your posts since 2012, Bradly.

I guess you and Agond D. Onter missed it. But then again, its takes sincerity to recognized it.

I think that "fiddling around with the Urantia book" is just what's goes on in these forms. Looking for friends in the effort to form a band of brothers is the far more important thing. Can you have a relationship with a book? You can have a relationship with your brothers and with God. Can you experience a book's ideas without your brothers and without God?

Why do you ask Enno why he posts on this forum? Have you not the sincerity in your heart to believe him when he tells you sincerely? I thought we were to trust our brothers. It pains me to see this insincerity and mistrust.


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So many discussions devolve into bickering, pettiness, disparagement of character and personality, this one being yet another example of that. Our lack of objectivity shows how much growing up we have to do spiritually in order to exhibit fruits of the spirit rather than bellicose animal natures. Instead of being a place for elevated exchanges of ideas, meanings and values, the discussions invariably spiral downward into personal animosities. We have a lot to learn; the first being that in order to grow spiritually we truly need always to hold the example of Jesus in our thoughts and dealings with others. Perhaps that's the value of a discussion group like this one; it's a mirror reflecting our inner shortcomings. It's unfortunate that we need to have these shortcomings pointed out by others rather than recognize them in ourselves before we post.

Try harder. This topic isn't far from being locked.

Larry


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Perhaps Larry is highlighting what's at the center of this topic. That what's really going on is that one group of free speech proponents has gone to war with another group of free speech proponents. Because the freewill expression of one group's ideas directly challenges the ideas of another in ways that are uncomfortable.

And now, Larry will use his authority, like he should, to point this out and put a stop to it here. Because this place, is where in the world, the highest form of the brotherhood of man is on display.

Enno


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well what's going on in your world will never be the same as whats going on in my world because of fundamental, foundational differences in worldviews and perspectives. we dont even share the same questions, let alone the same answers.


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Yes, of course. Worldviews and perspectives will differ, generally about everything I suppose, except one. It isn't true regarding the spiritual things in life.


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my spirituality affects everything in my life...hard to even separate it from life itself. it enhances the meanings and values of everything, like salt on food.


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I agree, but if the source of spiritual unity, which dwells within, guides all of us the same, equally, then it's our destiny to end up united in our perspective.


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well i think unity is found in ideals, not ideas, in the here and now and probably in the ultimate of destiny too. we could agree on the era of Light & Life as an ideal goal now and still gonna disagree about how to get there and where we stand in history and even if we could agree on a common problem area and it's causes we're probably not going to process the same information identically and apply the same solutions.


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Good points Makalu!! We can agree on goals and ideals but priorities, strategies, timing, and tactics? Not so much......

140:8.2 (1579.4) 1. Doing the Father’s will. Jesus’ teaching to trust in the overcare of the heavenly Father was not a blind and passive fatalism. He quoted with approval, on this afternoon, an old Hebrew saying: “He who will not work shall not eat.” He pointed to his own experience as sufficient commentary on his teachings. His precepts about trusting the Father must not be adjudged by the social or economic conditions of modern times or any other age. His instruction embraces the ideal principles of living near God in all ages and on all worlds.

140:8.3 (1579.5) Jesus made clear to the three the difference between the requirements of apostleship and discipleship. And even then he did not forbid the exercise of prudence and foresight by the twelve. What he preached against was not forethought but anxiety, worry. He taught the active and alert submission to God’s will. In answer to many of their questions regarding frugality and thriftiness, he simply called attention to his life as carpenter, boatmaker, and fisherman, and to his careful organization of the twelve. He sought to make it clear that the world is not to be regarded as an enemy; that the circumstances of life constitute a divine dispensation working along with the children of God.

:idea: :wink: 8)


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fanofVan wrote:
but priorities, strategies, timing, and tactics? Not so much......


Bradly, I'm interested in continuing to debate here with you, except I want to reset a spirit of cooperation vs being antagonistic. I'll do my part. Let's focus on where we can agree, is what I'm trying to say.

I hope that people can find that a motive for discovering the "priorities, strategies, timing, and tactics" in order to solve problems, is better found if all come together, rather than concentrating on where we're apart, just because difference of perspective is a fact.

I believe that it (more inclination to cooperate, vs being contentious) ought to be on display in the Urantia Book community, at the least, instead of constantly nurturing the motivation to take a countering position as if it's a contest.

I'd love to hear what you think about it Bradly. Aren't we (those in the Urantia Book community) all on the same team?

Enno


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