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fanofVan wrote:
Let those who choose fear then to tremble and quake!! And keep it unto themselves.............. and grow up a little.

Thank you Bradly, for not giving up. I appreciate how you are tireless. How you persistently encourage your brothers to grow indicates to me how much you really love them.

Enno


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The horrible confusion and abject spiritual darkness which followed the Caligastia catastrophe is still going on today, whipping up more fear and anxiety then ever before. Now, they're inciting our deceived children to riot, but these rebels are going to be swept away by that 55 foot wave set of LOVE Jim George pointed to earlier, building on the horizon. Why? Because their preoccupation with themselves isn't going to allow them to notice they ought to get to higher ground. Surf's up it's true, and in order to catch one of these amazing waves of LOVE, you'll have to paddle out among the lurking sharks to do it.


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Aint SKEEEERD!


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OK Nod (and Jim), again.... What concrete actions would you like me to take. Obviously I don't get it. Not afraid to admit I'm a bit self preoccupied and fairly dense. So, if you can please, lay it out for me. Not saying I am spring loaded and laser guided to take action, but I am definitely interested. This is really not meant as an attack, seriously. But with terrible events apparently just over the horizon I would love to at least contemplate getting my butt off my chez-lounge and helping out the cause.


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Al,

fanofVan wrote:
Let those who choose fear then to tremble and quake!! And keep it unto themselves..............

.......while we paddle out LOVE to the deceived children and prepare them for the ride of their lives.


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Thanks Nod. Guess I'm doing what I supposed to then... Have a GREAT DAY


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OK Nod (and Jim), again.... What concrete actions would you like me to take. Obviously I don't get it. Not afraid to admit I'm a bit self preoccupied and fairly dense. So, if you can please, lay it out for me. Not saying I am spring loaded and laser guided to take action, but I am definitely interested. This is really not meant as an attack, seriously. But with terrible events apparently just over the horizon I would love to at least contemplate getting my butt off my chez-lounge and helping out the cause.


Al,

I think this is the most honest and sincere question I have seen you, or many, ask in a long time.

The answer to it is quite simple. Aliens. How’s that? Only the aliens are you and me. When we actualize the reality of the love of God in our personal lives and live as if we are actually budding citizens of Mansonia Number 1, which we are, calling each other to manifest the consciousness of our citizenship on high as the actual reality we experience, the world will be uncontrollably affected by us.

So simply as I can put it, the Urantia Book is a seed pod, it carries the Fifth Epochal Revelation which when planted in a human soul will bring forth fruit of the spirit and a consciousness of living the will of God. As we, each of us, actualize this process, a process designed by God, we become the purveyors of the new revelation and it is that awareness that changes the planet. Contrary to the slow and gradual evolutionary process that you and others have subscribed to in the past, this process will experience a sudden transformation of soul consciousness. Like corn kernels popping we will manifest a whole new version of human and there will be no going back.

The reactions of the institutions of the world will be dramatic, some positive and some not so positive. The Urantia Book talks about the sudden emergence of transformations within the natural process of evolution. This is just such an event. The sudden appearance of a new realization of consciousness is the catalyst of this change and such is just ahead on the horizon when viewed from the perspective of spirit. Since spirit time and material time are unrelated in my consciousness I am unable to forecast this on our calendars. That doesn’t change either the proximity or my commitment to its realization.

I have been discussing these thoughts with a 30-year-old young lady for the last several months and she said, “This is just what our generation has been looking for. I believe you will attract thousands of young people to your cause once you decide to make these ideas public.” Ever read that in the Urantia Book?

So, what does it take for us to enact this transformation? Obviously, we cannot simply decide to do it. We must each commit ourselves to making it real. That simply means that we daily commit to experiencing the reality of God in our lives and deliberately changing our consciousness to allow that process to become our here-and-now reality. We must live what we are experiencing as we decide to explore our own souls. Living as Jesus lived means living with God in our consciousness and as our comprehension of what is real. Jesus is looking for us to be his front line not his support staff. The world doesn’t want to know merely what we know of the Urantia Book, it wants to know who we know as God in our experience.

And that living reality of personal experiential authority is the Fifth Epochal Revelation. I understand that not all will embrace this effort as I have, but I do ask that Urantia Book readers be less reluctant to see this as real. 47 years ago, God gave me a very clear experience of the reality of this consciousness and I enlisted in the cause. When I asked him for “the book of directions” he showed me the Urantia Book the very same day. He does that kind of thing. God isn’t merely what we believe, he’s real; experiencially so.

Hope that helps.

Jim


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... wow. OK Jim George. When I said "A'int Skeeerd", I was fibbing big time. What you are talking IS SCARY. Not really sure if I have the cajones to pull it off. I'm pretty much all talk and very little action. Yeah, I love my fellows. Yeah I show it. Yeah I do my good deeds in secret, not letting the left hand know what the right is doing, but that's chicken$hit compared what your are proposing.

I'll admit, I have a comfy life. I am well liked in my little sphere of influence, surrounded with extremest right wing Christians down here in the deep south. I doubt I have the guts to suddenly come out of my shell and let them know, honestly, what is really going on. I kind of like being employed!

Jesus was the ultimate religionist. Me, I'm just a piker. I know that its gonna retard me, probably forever, and that most likely even in the deep future, I'll be a helper not a leader in the great beyond. Jesus had is main 12 guys and they gave up everything for him. Then he had a bunch of other, less trustworthy types who, bye the way, also survived the experience of death. Frankly, that's where I see myself.

I tried shouting it from the rooftops 25 years ago. Still got the scars.

When the $hit hits the fan, I'll be on the correct side of the line.

Till then, I'll see y'all in the line-up


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Jim George wrote:


.....Contrary to the slow and gradual evolutionary process that you and others have subscribed to in the past, this process will experience a sudden transformation of soul consciousness. Like corn kernels popping we will manifest a whole new version of human and there will be no going back.

.... This is just such an event. The sudden appearance of a new realization of consciousness is the catalyst of this change and such is just ahead on the horizon when viewed from the perspective of spirit. Since spirit time and material time are unrelated in my consciousness I am unable to forecast this on our calendars. That doesn’t change either the proximity or my commitment to its realization.

So, what does it take for us to enact this transformation? Obviously, we cannot simply decide to do it. We must each commit ourselves to making it real. That simply means that we daily commit to experiencing the reality of God in our lives and deliberately changing our consciousness to allow that process to become our here-and-now reality. We must live what we are experiencing as we decide to explore our own souls. Living as Jesus lived means living with God in our consciousness and as our comprehension of what is real. Jesus is looking for us to be his front line not his support staff. The world doesn’t want to know merely what we know of the Urantia Book, it wants to know who we know as God in our experience.

...... I understand that not all will embrace this effort as I have, but I do ask that Urantia Book readers be less reluctant to see this as real....
Jim


8) Apologies for the snipping of Jim's entire post but wanted to focus primarily on the above. Jim has taken much upon himself here. First is the prediction that we will soon have an 'event' of acceleration of the human evolution through the mortal epochs resulting in a "sudden transformation of soul consciousness". Interesting speculation for consideration but given as a declaration of fact. Hmmmmm...............a predicted "event"? Please provide some context from the Papers for the timing of this prediction.

The larger issue, IMO, is this persistent presumption that those who attend here are not already fully engaged in the "daily commit to experiencing the reality of God in our lives and deliberately changing our consciousness to allow that process to become our here-and-now reality. We must live what we are experiencing as we decide to explore our own souls."

Who's NOT doing this? Can we not know what's in the UB and live lives of transformation and progress in the Spirit and our daily walk with God?

Is the measure those who agree with Jim in his evangelisms and those who do not? For no one might even pretend to know the soul consciousness and building of any other. Jim manages to put down any and all who walk their own glory trail and Paradise Path that does not meet his approval.

The Papers teach that as go the parts so goes the whole. There will never be an abrogation of this reality. Will spirit pressure from above accelerate the world at different times? Yes we are told such is normal. Consider the great thinkers, religionists, and philosophers which came about 600 years or so before Jesus' time...a mystery event and time to the authors. Consider the impact of the Son's Spirit on our world these past 2000 years. Incredible acceleration through the Mortal Epochs. So Jim's prediction is indeed possible.

But it will still be one soul at a time that aggregates global change. No raptures, no wonders, no signs, no termination of "the slow and gradual evolutionary process". We are warned that disappointment in our world often leads to an immature impatience to see and have transformation SOONER and FASTER. Get over it.

We are to live in the presence of God and as ambassadors to the kingdom of brother/sister hood. The world will take the time it takes and we need not wait on the world's transformation to transfer the seat of our identity and make circle progress AND contribute to our world and our fellow mortals here and now. Don't need an event to prepare for or for motivation to live in the Spirit.

Or so I see it.

8)


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toto wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
All of time is a correcting time....all of it.


You have just finished telling us this about time.

And now...


fanofVan wrote:
Don't need an event to prepare for or for motivation to live in the Spirit.


An event is a happening in time. Why would say that we don't need an event? All that is given to us and all that we have are happenings in time. Our lives are a series of events. It is wise to pay attention to these "events".


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Toto,
Your statements on the 'discrete' nature of time are not consistent with the Urantia Book.

toto wrote:
Time is discrete, not continuous.


130:7.4 (1439.2) Time is the stream of flowing temporal events perceived by creature consciousness. Time is a name given to the succession-arrangement whereby events are recognized and segregated. The universe of space is a time-related phenomenon as it is viewed from any interior position outside of the fixed abode of Paradise. The motion of time is only revealed in relation to something which does not move in space as a time phenomenon. In the universe of universes Paradise and its Deities transcend both time and space. On the inhabited worlds, human personality (indwelt and oriented by the Paradise Father’s spirit) is the only physically related reality which can transcend the material sequence of temporal events.

toto wrote:
Our lives are a series of events.


130:7.5 (1439.3) Animals do not sense time as does man, and even to man, because of his sectional and circumscribed view, time appears as a succession of events; but as man ascends, as he progresses inward, the enlarging view of this event procession is such that it is discerned more and more in its wholeness. That which formerly appeared as a succession of events then will be viewed as a whole and perfectly related cycle; in this way will circular simultaneity increasingly displace the onetime consciousness of the linear sequence of events.

We perceive our lives as a series of events because of our sectional and circumscribed view. However, as we bring our spiritual progress further toward Godliness we see our lives as a whole, without beginning or end.

With regard to paying attention to the events in our lives, remember, too, what Jesus taught -----

Quote:
147:5.7 (1653.1) That same evening Jesus made the long-to-be-remembered address to the apostles regarding the relative value of status with God and progress in the eternal ascent to Paradise. Said Jesus: “My children, if there exists a true and living connection between the child and the Father, the child is certain to progress continuously toward the Father’s ideals. True, the child may at first make slow progress, but the progress is none the less sure. The important thing is not the rapidity of your progress but rather its certainty. Your actual achievement is not so important as the fact that the direction of your progress is Godward. What you are becoming day by day is of infinitely more importance than what you are today.


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toto wrote:
toto wrote:
fanofVan wrote:
All of time is a correcting time....all of it.


You have just finished telling us this about time.

And now...


fanofVan wrote:
Don't need an event to prepare for or for motivation to live in the Spirit.


An event is a happening in time. Why would say that we don't need an event? All that is given to us and all that we have are happenings in time. Our lives are a series of events. It is wise to pay attention to these "events".


Thanks toto for pointing out my consistency!!!! All of time is a correcting, or more accurately a perfecting, time...all of it. And mortals do not need any specific event in-time to prepare for or be motivated to live in the Spirit.

Jim announces an impending event of global significance....as Christians have done now for 2000 years....the rapture or Armageddon or the second coming or some form of manifestation of the hand of God for deliverance from evil and the repercussions of sin. And his job is to herald the coming new age and warn those of us who, apparently by his judgment, are not doing enough to be prepared for whatever he says is coming.

He and Robert S. have started (or restarted) a Urantia Church to spread this warning and invitation to our world. I'm sure they would welcome your help toto/Mannie/Louis, loucol, JohnnyBones as you come with your own whole posse/platoon!

I've always found it interesting that the Master told the Apostles they were to 'win' souls for the 'kingdom' rather than to 'save' souls from damnation. A profound distinction I think.

Jim preaches a uniform expectation and a uniform preparation for the uniform event he is telling us to expect. This is not how the universe operates, especially on the material worlds of mortal birth. We are not to look for signs or expect signs in order for us to heed the call of the Spirit within. And we are to have hope, joy, peace, and confidence in this friendly universe and along the edges of conflict as we each, personally, listen to and respond to the Spirit within each of us. The expression of that experience is never to be uniform or specified by another.

Like so many of his fellow preachers, Jim seems far too focused on what others are or are not doing and seems to claim quite the insight into the hearts, minds, and lives of others. To be so intent on the saw dust found in the eyes of others ignores the beam one might otherwise be concerned about. I would sincerely advise Jim to stop predicting events in the future and to stop telling others what we should be doing to get ready for whatever he is predicting. The sky is not falling and the Most Highs rule in the kingdoms of humanity.

140:8.26 (1582.7) Jesus knew men were different, and he so taught his apostles. He constantly exhorted them to refrain from trying to mold the disciples and believers according to some set pattern. He sought to allow each soul to develop in its own way, a perfecting and separate individual before God. In answer to one of Peter’s many questions, the Master said: “I want to set men free so that they can start out afresh as little children upon the new and better life.” Jesus always insisted that true goodness must be unconscious, in bestowing charity not allowing the left hand to know what the right hand does.

140:8.30 (1583.4) Jesus did not teach his apostles that religion is man’s only earthly pursuit; that was the Jewish idea of serving God. But he did insist that religion was the exclusive business of the twelve. Jesus taught nothing to deter his believers from the pursuit of genuine culture; he only detracted from the tradition-bound religious schools of Jerusalem. He was liberal, big-hearted, learned, and tolerant. Self-conscious piety had no place in his philosophy of righteous living. *

140:8.31 (1583.5) The Master offered no solutions for the nonreligious problems of his own age nor for any subsequent age. Jesus wished to develop spiritual insight into eternal realities and to stimulate initiative in the originality of living; he concerned himself exclusively with the underlying and permanent spiritual needs of the human race. He revealed a goodness equal to God. He exalted love — truth, beauty, and goodness — as the divine ideal and the eternal reality.

140:8.32 (1583.6) The Master came to create in man a new spirit, a new will — to impart a new capacity for knowing the truth, experiencing compassion, and choosing goodness — the will to be in harmony with God’s will, coupled with the eternal urge to become perfect, even as the Father in heaven is perfect.

140:10.2 (1584.5) Another great handicap in this work of teaching the twelve was their tendency to take highly idealistic and spiritual principles of religious truth and remake them into concrete rules of personal conduct. Jesus would present to them the beautiful spirit of the soul’s attitude, but they insisted on translating such teachings into rules of personal behavior. Many times, when they did make sure to remember what the Master said, they were almost certain to forget what he did not say. But they slowly assimilated his teaching because Jesus was all that he taught. What they could not gain from his verbal instruction, they gradually acquired by living with him.

140:10.5 (1585.3) The one characteristic of Jesus’ teaching was that the morality of his philosophy originated in the personal relation of the individual to God — this very child-father relationship. Jesus placed emphasis on the individual, not on the race or nation. While eating supper, Jesus had the talk with Matthew in which he explained that the morality of any act is determined by the individual’s motive. Jesus’ morality was always positive. The golden rule as restated by Jesus demands active social contact; the older negative rule could be obeyed in isolation. Jesus stripped morality of all rules and ceremonies and elevated it to majestic levels of spiritual thinking and truly righteous living.

140:10.6 (1585.4) This new religion of Jesus was not without its practical implications, but whatever of practical political, social, or economic value there is to be found in his teaching is the natural outworking of this inner experience of the soul as it manifests the fruits of the spirit in the spontaneous daily ministry of genuine personal religious experience.


8)


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Jim says above: "Contrary to the slow and gradual evolutionary process that you and others have subscribed to in the past, this process will experience a sudden transformation of soul consciousness. Like corn kernels popping we will manifest a whole new version of human and there will be no going back."

POPPYCOCK ALERT!! :roll:

WOW!!!! A "whole new version of human" eh? Surely such an event is mentioned in the UB? In all the descriptions of all the Mortal Epochs described in Paper 52 there is no mention of any such event that brings a "sudden transformation of soul consciousness" (except the gift of the Son's Spirit which we have received and delivers the flood of TA's to mind as well) to a world nor a "whole new version of human". What the heck is that all about?

Since those of us here attend a UB study group, perhaps we might consider what the authors say about these matter? The whole does not move or change the parts....it is just the opposite we are told.

8)

Now, to be clear, the UB certainly teaches that this aggregation-effect of each and every soul who enters the kingdom does indeed influence and impact "the whole" and does so over time and generation by generation, the whole becomes more spiritized by those individuals who experience and express the spirit in the kingdoms of God. As used by Jesus, the "kingdom" concept is fivefold: the individual experience of and with God within the each; the brother/sisterhood of believers; the celestial and mortal creations in time and as related to Paradise; the next mortal epoch of time; and the final phases of Light and Life to come.

Please tell us about this whole new version of human and provide some textual support of such a claim. Thank you.

170:5.9 (1864.9) The kingdom of Jesus’ teaching, the spiritual ideal of individual righteousness and the concept of man’s divine fellowship with God, became gradually submerged into the mystic conception of the person of Jesus as the Redeemer-Creator and spiritual head of a socialized religious community. In this way a formal and institutional church became the substitute for the individually spirit-led brotherhood of the kingdom.

170:5.10 (1864.10) The church was an inevitable and useful social result of Jesus’ life and teachings; the tragedy consisted in the fact that this social reaction to the teachings of the kingdom so fully displaced the spiritual concept of the real kingdom as Jesus taught and lived it.

170:5.11 (1865.1) The kingdom, to the Jews, was the Israelite community; to the gentiles it became the Christian church. To Jesus the kingdom was the sum of those individuals who had confessed their faith in the fatherhood of God, thereby declaring their wholehearted dedication to the doing of the will of God, thus becoming members of the spiritual brotherhood of man.

170:5.12 (1865.2) The Master fully realized that certain social results would appear in the world as a consequence of the spread of the gospel of the kingdom; but he intended that all such desirable social manifestations should appear as unconscious and inevitable outgrowths, or natural fruits, of this inner personal experience of individual believers, this purely spiritual fellowship and communion with the divine spirit which indwells and activates all such believers.

170:5.13 (1865.3) Jesus foresaw that a social organization, or church, would follow the progress of the true spiritual kingdom, and that is why he never opposed the apostles’ practicing the rite of John’s baptism. He taught that the truth-loving soul, the one who hungers and thirsts for righteousness, for God, is admitted by faith to the spiritual kingdom; at the same time the apostles taught that such a believer is admitted to the social organization of disciples by the outward rite of baptism.

170:5.14 (1865.4) When Jesus’ immediate followers recognized their partial failure to realize his ideal of the establishment of the kingdom in the hearts of men by the spirit’s domination and guidance of the individual believer, they set about to save his teaching from being wholly lost by substituting for the Master’s ideal of the kingdom the gradual creation of a visible social organization, the Christian church. And when they had accomplished this program of substitution, in order to maintain consistency and to provide for the recognition of the Master’s teaching regarding the fact of the kingdom, they proceeded to set the kingdom off into the future. The church, just as soon as it was well established, began to teach that the kingdom was in reality to appear at the culmination of the Christian age, at the second coming of Christ.


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Agon D. Onter wrote:
Toto,
Your statements on the 'discrete' nature of time are not consistent with the Urantia Book.


Agon D. Onter wrote:
130:7.4 (1439.2) Time is the stream of flowing temporal events perceived by creature consciousness. Time is a name given to the succession-arrangement whereby events are recognized and segregated. The universe of space is a time-related phenomenon as it is viewed from any interior position outside of the fixed abode of Paradise. The motion of time is only revealed in relation to something which does not move in space as a time phenomenon. In the universe of universes Paradise and its Deities transcend both time and space. On the inhabited worlds, human personality (indwelt and oriented by the Paradise Father’s spirit) is the only physically related reality which can transcend the material sequence of temporal events.


IMO, this quote about time is completely consistent with discreteness of time. The key word in the first sentence is "perceived". We perceive time by analysis. Time is not linear. It is not discrete in the sense of discrete line segments. Time is discrete in the sense that it is ever expanding or (contracting) circles with discrete jumps in radius. That is what circular simultaneity is.



147:5.7 (1653.1) That same evening Jesus made the long-to-be-remembered address to the apostles regarding the relative value of status with God and progress in the eternal ascent to Paradise. Said Jesus: “My children, if there exists a true and living connection between the child and the Father, the child is certain to progress continuously toward the Father’s ideals. True, the child may at first make slow progress, but the progress is none the less sure. The important thing is not the rapidity of your progress but rather its certainty. Your actual achievement is not so important as the fact that the direction of your progress is Godward. What you are becoming day by day is of infinitely more importance than what you are today.

As a reminder, Godward progress is inward. God is our center. What direction is this from? Infinite directions. A circle of time approaches its center from infinite directions until it is no longer time, but a point. A point is that without parts (Euclid's definition and the one I assume is used in TUB). Paradise is that which has no parts, no time, no space. Paradise can only be approached from the absolute of time, eternity.





fanofVan wrote:
Jim preaches a uniform expectation and a uniform preparation for the uniform event he is telling us to expect.


What you see as preaching, I see as sharing. But our difference in perceiving our brother perhaps lies in the fact that I do not doubt Jim's sincerity.

195:9.2 ... to conquer an empire of materialistic secularism and to overthrow a world sway of mechanistic naturalism. Urantia is now quivering on the very brink of one of its most amazing and enthralling epochs of social readjustment, moral quickening, and...

What does a literalist say about this quote?

fanofVan wrote:
Thanks toto for pointing out my consistency!!!! All of time is a correcting, or more accurately a perfecting, time...all of it.


I think that you should be more precise with your words when you pontificate. All of time is the absolute of time, and the absolute of time is eternity. Eternity is perfection, not perfecting.


fanofVan wrote:
POPPYCOCK ALERT!! :roll:


I suppose that you doubt your brother's sincerity. A very nice pickup from your mentor.


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When they tell you, you should pay attention to them because they know about the importance of what they're sitting on as the identity of the progress of their service to their fellow man, you might consider that it's probably due to the cockypop expression of their confusion having paid too much attention (going round in circles).

See how their eyes are rolling? Be compassionate for them, for they no not what they do. They can't go round and round for all time.

Enno


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