An open forum for general discussions of a spiritual nature where guests and readers entertain the teachings of The Urantia Book.
Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:51 am +0000
All media sources for accurate or truthful information regarding current events are highly questionable at the moment. Maybe they always have been. Who do you believe? What can you believe?
Are the powers of darkness feeling their doom?
Is Caligastia behind the situation manipulating everything and everybody he can?
Is Islam evil?
Are those in positions of power in politics, media, business and organized religion influencing the masses to stand against the truth?
Are we at that point where "Sin was bewitching and adventurous in the committing, but now must the harvest of the naked and unromantic facts be faced."?
Or are these times just another page in the story of how truth ultimately prevails?
(4:1.4) There is no limitation of the forces and personalities which the Father may use to uphold his purpose and sustain his creatures. "The eternal God is our refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms." "He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty." "Behold, he who keeps us shall neither slumber nor sleep." "We know that all things work together for good to those who love God," "for the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayers."
Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:53 pm +0000
nodAmanaV wrote:(4:1.4) There is no limitation of the forces and personalities which the Father may use to uphold his purpose and sustain his creatures. "The eternal God is our refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms." "He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty." "Behold, he who keeps us shall neither slumber nor sleep." "We know that all things work together for good to those who love God," "for the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open to their prayers."
We have to all live like refugees. God is our refuge. Only then can we say that all is OK.
Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:44 am +0000
Yes. It can be OK. It will be OK.
Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:07 am +0000
What is going on is exactly what has been going on the entire time. We are experiencing a slow and painful evolution from savagery to a semblance of civilization. There is nothing particularly special about this time as opposed to any other time in the course of human history. The nation of the United States, located in the northern hemisphere of this world is lately coming off a period of relative progress, a phenomena which obviously terrified a large portion of its populace, and is entering a period of relative regression. Geographically, across the planet, the Middle Eastern states continue to roil in the aftermath of an unfortunate attempt to instigate the early return of Jesus by the Western Christian Nations. It will be generations before this works itself out. Asia seems to be on the rise, with the Yellow races leading much of the technology portion of the current scientific revolution. The Northern White races appear to be in decline, but this outwardly decline may be cleverly masking a slow but steady spiritual renaissance. The current leaders of democracy and freedom appear to be the Scandinavian nations and Canada. The current last placers in this contest appear to be the nations of North Korea and Syria.
In short, its business as usual and we are exactly where we are supposed to be right now… all things considered.
Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:33 pm +0000
Real life events will force many UB readers, specifically the rigid literalist and hardliners, to recalibrate their interpretation of the papers. Caligastia is very real and very powerful right now. Downplaying his effect and influence on human existence is a major mistake.
Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:13 pm +0000
brooklyn_born wrote:Real life events will force many UB readers, specifically the rigid literalist and hardliners, to recalibrate their interpretation of the papers. Caligastia is very real and very powerful right now. Downplaying his effect and influence on human existence is a major mistake.
You know those ancient temple ruins, thickly embedded in the jungle where after many years of abandonment, the trees have grown into all the cracks and joints of the stonework overshadowing it all? In order to remove these ingrown trees, what remains of the buildings will need to be impacted harshly, perhaps reshaping them permanently.
The traitorous fallen Ruler of our world, Caligastia is like one of these trees. Coiled like a constrictor firmly embedded in everything that makes up our world. He's become such an accepted part of life that our society continues to build on this long corrupt and deformed structure, new foundations of "democracy" and "freedom" blindly.
Yes, it most certainly is business as usual. But we're supposed to change this and not keep making the same mistake over and over in believing that there isn't anything that can be done about it.
America, the greatest country in the world, is leading the way in showing how to dislodge this satanic self-serving and corrupt establishment from the ruin of our institutions. This is warfare, except that the battlefield is something unlike anything seen before. So are the soldiers. "Great spiritual power is inherent in the consciousness of wholehearted devotion to a common cause, mutual loyalty to a cosmic Deity."
It's time to remove what's grown into the cracks that continues to split us apart. It won't leave on its own.
Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:33 pm +0000
You do too much that you would speculate that Caligastia has played a role in the modern tumult. I must disagree.
We have, at hand in the present, a period of nationalism comparable to the times whence the Urantia Papers were actually "written". There are the reassertions of loyalty because Americans and other westerners have made choices that cause internationalism and world citisenship to be in jeopardy.
The angels of nations tell us in UB that the assertion of nationalism is "a virus", which goes against the dual sovereignty of the human individual and the mankind government. They ask "how many world wars must be fought until there is the lasting establishment of mankind government?" This is the grave present, rife with every dividor including those bespoken of in Matthew CH5. We are told "render unto Caser that which belongs to Caser including loyalty unless Caser would demand that homage which may only be afforded towards Deity."
This is surely an intervening stage, wherein American government refuses the responsibility that it had pledged in March A.D. 2003 whence it entered into Iraq. Europeans who aided our efforts are now burdened with the fallout, and it is a debt better received by America, to receive the Syrians who have been displaced. Clarity cannot be found in a daily discourse that seeks out incidents that prove their rhetoric; rather we may observe the condition the world at present is found, the result of our actions and conquests.
Northern Africa and the Middle East no longer arable; the average temperatures at the north pole 5 degrees higher than 50 years ago, on averaged. The Urantia Book is yet a beacon of truth, reminding that truth may be suppressed but not forever.
Mon Mar 27, 2017 6:41 pm +0000
SEla_Kelly wrote:We have, at hand in the present, a period of nationalism comparable to the times whence the Urantia Papers were actually "written".
What we have is the emergence of populism, which is "support for the concerns of ordinary people"
and "identifies with the folks on the bottom of the ladder"
SEla_Kelly wrote:The angels of nations tell us in UB that the assertion of nationalism is "a virus", which goes against the dual sovereignty of the human individual and the mankind government.
Currently, all that is presented as globalization or progress toward world government is NOT what the Urantia Book says mankind government will eventually be. Mankind government, as the Urantia Book presents it, is dependent on: (71:2.19) Intelligent and trained representation. The survival of democracy is dependent on successful representative government; and that is conditioned upon the practice of electing to public offices only those individuals who are technically trained, intellectually competent, socially loyal, and morally fit. Only by such provisions can government of the people, by the people, and for the people be preserved.
It's very obvious, even taking the whole world together, nothing remotely like this exists anywhere in government. Not at the national level, not at local levels. Having said that though, there are more now entering government who are working to overthrow those who are there only to serve themselves.
Take the EU for example. This organization was initiated for the purpose of maximizing profits by a conglomerate of a handful of European corporations. They still control this union. But they've been hard at work making everybody think it's the European version of the USA, or the beginnings of world government, which it most definitely is not.
SEla_Kelly wrote:This is surely an intervening stage, wherein American government refuses the responsibility that it had pledged in March A.D. 2003 whence it entered into Iraq. Europeans who aided our efforts are now burdened with the fallout, and it is a debt better received by America, to receive the Syrians who have been displaced. Clarity cannot be found in a daily discourse that seeks out incidents that prove their rhetoric; rather we may observe the condition the world at present is found, the result of our actions and conquests.
All the more reason to see to it that the type of individual who is encumbering government with their incompetence and corruption be weeded out before they even get their name on a ballot or are appointed to public office. We the people are responsible for that and that's the significance of the rise of populism, which is vital to representative mankind government.
Mon Mar 27, 2017 8:34 pm +0000
There has also been offered to us the phrase "internationalism is a step in the right direction". And that international trade agreements go further to bring peace even than the various cease fire treaties between states.
Whatever; I must emphasize that IF we are observing another historical period of nationalism, and that if such nationalism is "a virus", we must reason how this is coming about
, what psychologically we or the public fears, that is leading us into such a condition.
"Populism" I must not understand the concept. I believe that the public has been manipulated under certain counts, the term would be "emotionalism" that describes the exploitation of our phsychological weakness here on this count. I have heard the phrase "Electoral Autocracy" ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqSlx2h_1oE
) used to describe the current status of republican elections by one oxford professor. Such a description refers to the preprocessment of information by a few global corporations, which surely constitutes an assault on the tone of conversations before it (conversation) is had in public discourse. I hope that I am not complaining. I am Hegelian in the belief that representational democracy leads to the most liberty for each citizen.
I suppose that what you may be describing "populism" is how common frustrations are exploited and how people are able to profit temporarily therefrom. Yes, we understand that the public, or populace, wants "WISDOM", that you can dress a candidate in far-seeing imagery but how could you establish a tautology if you knew such an identity was untrue from the beginning. Ultimately, we can deduce that the public elected an official who has endured numerous bankruptcies because it is time for America to declare bankruptcy as an entity, like Socrates to "taste the hemlock" (and thus attain relative longevity in the precedence and annals of world history). This is something I have been mulling over for a while now. That the end of America as we know it could be the the beginning of established mankind government.
But this would require a type of true resignation and not through false promises or the reemergence of the American state within the Global Oligarchial Corporation or anything remotely like this.
nodAmanaV wrote:It's very obvious, even taking the whole world together, nothing remotely like this exists anywhere in government. Not at the national level, not at local levels. Having said that though, there are more now entering government who are working to overthrow those who are there only to serve themselves.
This is terribly unfair; Abraham Lincoln is the classic example of one professional whom was "Implored to serve" as an elected official. Yet, no matter how few there be, there are folks with the right experience who currently serve on various federal levels of governance. I pray that you not overlook one who has had the type of learning you are insisting upon as governmental service prerequisite. Senator Ron Paul for instance was a longtime physician before being elected to office.
Tue Mar 28, 2017 6:51 am +0000
The start of the handover of initiative between the various groups of conservative angels and the angels of progress must begin soon. These strange political-social world-smashing/world-forming events that have fairly recently begun may be a sign of that transfer of initiative. If that is so then it will be necessary to protect some root values and conditions while life-changing and society-changing events are taking place.
What might be hiding under somewhat naive observations of "populistic" or "nationalistic" factors at work might be rather a revolutionary motive coupled to strong conservatism. The revolutionary motive is a deep-seated feeling in enough people to matter, that the human foundations or institutions are not necessarily developing in ways that are healthy, productive and truly progressive. The revolution entails at least a change of the guard. But that is merely a first step. The conservative side may be the underlying recognition that some existing things must be preserved to avoid the usual kaos and degeneracy that can easily accompany revolution.
That is one possible interpretation of the current political-social playing field, where events are playing out with special intensity in the U.S., Europe and Scandinavia. The common, deep-seated feeling that things are not developing in ways that are healthy, productive and truly progressive is well-known to reporters in Sweden, for example.
Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:29 pm +0000
welp what i see in the usa is a wave of populist economic nationalism and it's not particularly new...it's fueled by the same attitudes and platitudes spewed on right-wing talk radio for decades...it's good for making money and getting votes but it's not an effective problem solver for the economic issues at hand. i think brexit and the rise of nationalistic political parties in western europe has a different dynamic and added cultural element but i'm not following it much.
Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:27 pm +0000
I agree. But we also need to look at the methods by which companies such as MASTERCARD, GOOGLE, AT&T have advanced their policy-claims within American and other federal court systems throughout the world. In 2009, facebook had changed its format and at the end of 2012, Google went through the Santa Barbara county system in order to establish new informational policies, which it would have contractually with its users and registrants.
Well there are separate types of information-stewardship that each of these companies have, but generally there is information sharing towards the build up of credit scores, psychological profiles, and on the individuals' own end her resume. As the ability to document stages of your life became a matter of convenience, corporations felt obligated as a matter of due course to publish for its own records these types of documents, due to their profit potential. So now we understand that we are more likely to be advertised for insurance after obtaining a mortgage or finalizing a matrimony. That is a small example of how information might be shared amongst communications, social media, debt-instrument organisations. And there is a host of hidden players that seek to obtain this information for their own purposes, either to exploit or discredit existing corporations or else to access into the accounts of the client-users. But also, there are nations that attempt to legitimize this type of assault/theft/blackmail through direct means, or by attempts to legitimize their work in the law.
Therefore, when there are concerted efforts to influence public opinion, order placed upon those who operate and regulate these informational programs, it happens through a level of sophistication that may deceive the populace. The WALL STREET JOURNAL runs the same article with two different headlines, in two different neighbourhoods. This is all the tip of the iceberg, but essentially, there have certainly been acts of libel and fraud occurring, on an individual level, in the format suited for informational digestion. And I think that in general people's coping mechanisms and socialisation patterns are insufficient to help them either assess how it may affect them (first subconsciously, then behaviourally to the potential of robbing of real decision), or how they may efface the false stories and obtain actual discernment.
But hello what is the impact? It is cognitive dissonance, which may lead to inaction. Then there are compulsions that may set in. The inability to socialise properly due to anxiety that is going unaddressed; finally the simple matter of allowing the sedentary lifestyle and not enough outdoors time would eventually devastate the environment.
Within a worldstage wherein the majority of developed nations operate public corporate-share exchanges, we would also question the reasons why international trade pacts are shunned, inconsistencies within the marketplace are found, and person with job experience as job restructurers rather than foremen and makers are able to influence policy. Why have we allowed investors to stock-profit off of government subsidies to the ford corporation, for instance?
The idea of nationalism is certainly complicated by the fact that Goldman Sachs is less of a financial-services investment firm to investors and more of a public debt-holding company. Mostly governmental debt on local and state levels. You can see that certain actions that have already transpired in recent months suggests that USA Government is going through a period of debt restructuring. If we allow such bankruptcy negotiations to take place behind closed doors, without the sincere acknowledgement of what is happening, it would lead to a worst type of slavery than the plantations. The basis would be information, foreknowledge of the petty crimes that individuals have committed, the credit score monitor program, programmes for the institutionalisation of "normal family" (in America as in China), and the myriad types of algorithms that control informations systems, which may lead to behavioural compliance. Such a society would preach that the individual has more freedoms than before, while assaulting/affecting certain motivations (intentionally or not), and then through financial oversight, explain what the individual may or may not do, given the circumstances.
I can understand if you read that and disagree, that it would not amount to slavery. But then you must acknowledge the parental duty of teacher and see how vulnerable urban populations may become. It is said that a sizable majority of americans do not have enough savings to pay their bills for the next 3 months. Meanwhile dutiful professionals who defend the public such as Eliot Spitzer and Eric Scheiderman walk a tight rope trying to rescue individuals from debt-traps which lead to the slavery I have described.
It would be very strange, to see on the surface this "nationalism" but then to know how any professed allegience that the individual might have is being tried, tested, and potentially manipulated to suit the purpose of the corporation that the person is involved through. We would have to clarify, certainly, that this is not nationalism but the use of foreknowledge to perform behavioural experimentation in an attempt to change public opinion and discourse. And if we see that the populace has begun to accept the notion of gambling revenues as beneficial to the state, for instance, then there are myriad other delusions waiting to assault, convince us, of great evils.
The refinement of informational algorithms, the suitable exchange of intercorporation information sharing, these are aspects that the mankind government should have the authority to decide upon. Therefore, it seems that this "false nationalism" is being encouraged in order that corporate policy gains a stronger foothold over national law. Whenever a politician who complies with, or would comply with global corporation's agenda to legitimize their own policy into law, we will hear these things "I am for you;" "we have to fix the mess our country is in", and yes or no there was enough of a national sentiment to make it work. But in the last 50 years (70 years), America had taken the course to shed that type of nationalism, to peacefully mitigate the rise of other states such as Congo and India (yes instigating the destruction of naturally forming governments also). Whether for good or ill, that is the role America had begun; withdrawing from intentational obligations is like denying the genetic link that a parent definetly has with a child whom they reared. If you agree, you should assess to what extent you are indenial on these issues; the public should not feign its amnesia on these things because the land is at stake.
Wed Mar 29, 2017 4:17 am +0000
Love ya SELa.
I also disagree with the idea that the fallen Planetary Prince is pulling a lot of strings behind the scenes. Remember the Author's admission that most of what is blamed on the devil is actually the evil of the self. Our world, its history and its future is much like a pendulum, upon which we all swing. Sometimes it moves forwards, sometimes not. Often times there is some really terrible stuff going on at the exact same time some really beautiful things are happening. If you smooth it all out, a slow painful crawl from savagery to civilization becomes apparent. However when you are out there, (which is where we all are...) it can be a wild rollercoaster from heck.
Yes, Trump is leading the charge backwards.
Yes corporations are soulless, even soul sucking monstrosities.
But dig deeper.
Underneath the chaos is the slow, steady progression which is the teachings of the Master, moving the world forward at its own pace.
Do your best to share the gospel in you own way. Its really the only thing you can do.
Remember the Masters words when he told us that even if its the end of the age, the end of the world even, we are secure in his teachings: The Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Man.
Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:41 am +0000
And let's not forget what the Urantia Book says about what's considered a racist way of thinking by many these days. Probably the majority of people in the world would accuse you of being a racist if you ascribe to the following:
(52:2.12) It is neither tenderness nor altruism to bestow futile sympathy upon degenerated human beings, unsalvable abnormal and inferior mortals. There exist on even the most normal of the evolutionary worlds sufficient differences between individuals and between numerous social groups to provide for the full exercise of all those noble traits of altruistic sentiment and unselfish mortal ministry without perpetuating the socially unfit and the morally degenerate strains of evolving humanity. There is abundant opportunity for the exercise of tolerance and the function of altruism in behalf of those unfortunate and needy individuals who have not irretrievably lost their moral heritage and forever destroyed their spiritual birthright.
Wed Mar 29, 2017 1:24 pm +0000
nodAmanaV wrote:(52:2.12) It is neither tenderness nor altruism to bestow futile sympathy upon degenerated human beings, unsalvable abnormal and inferior mortals. There exist on even the most normal of the evolutionary worlds sufficient differences between individuals and between numerous social groups to provide for the full exercise of all those noble traits of altruistic sentiment and unselfish mortal ministry without perpetuating the socially unfit and the morally degenerate strains of evolving humanity. There is abundant opportunity for the exercise of tolerance and the function of altruism in behalf of those unfortunate and needy individuals who have not irretrievably lost their moral heritage and forever destroyed their spiritual birthright.
I wonder just who is this fascist, right-wing Mighty Messenger who wrote paper 52.
"degenerated human beings"? Is he referring to 'bad hombres'?
"unsalvable abnormal and inferior mortals"? Is he referring to the likes of ISIS?
"perpetuating the socially unfit and the morally degenerate strains of evolving humanity"? Is he referring to 'sanctuary' cities?
nodAmanaV wrote:And let's not forget what the Urantia Book says about what's considered a racist way of thinking by many these days.
I don't think that anyone here is forgetting, nod. It's not a matter of forgetting, perhaps just a glossing over of "inconvenient truths". Thanks for the reminder though nod. "Shields up Captain!"
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