Nationalism vs Globalization, Globalism and the Urantia Book

[Riktare]

I have to agree with SEla_Kelly. Today, there are rather many downsides to "Globalization". Maybe you need to either have lived outside the U.S. or be in a profession that is losing its value to appreciate this. Today's Globalization is not the mixing of people in a way that is progressive and that brings value and opportunity to all.

While there has been much talk about the ascension of jobs in the "services" industry, what that means at this point in time is people being displaced from once thriving and productive careers into a new type of serfdom or modern slavery. Working in "services" is becoming a pretty word for working as a servant. It is work that few people will choose to do unless they are in a sufficiently dire financial situation. In building this kind of economy the uber rich are benefiting at the expense of everyone else, including too often the highly skilled and educated.

[Makalu]

there's a difference between the UB's profit-motive vs. service-motive economy and a manufacturing vs. service industry...and the service industry includes some pretty robust jobs in finance, health, IT, retail and education.

[fanofVan]

Riktaire - I agree there are "downsides"...in every example of evolutionary process and progress one might consider. Slavery has lots of downside, eh? Yet we are told it eliminated, or nearly so, people eating one another. And it also led to city building and civilization beyond the tribe. Warfare has many downsides and yet, we are taught, it has been the driving force of technological advancement throughout history.

Not to Riktaire but in General: To suggest that evolution is (or should be) ideally benign or user friendly (or it's not progressive) seems an odd perspective. The evolution of profit motive/market based/supply and demand is not ideal compared to its potential and inevitable outcomes but its benefits and progress compared to its ancestry simply cannot be denied. Globalization is inevitable but this does not suggest it is smooth or easy or wise or predictable or manageable or pretty or that each stage is "ideal" - it is trial and error, with lots of trials and lots of errors. To point out the errors and the less than ideal does not serve to see the actual progress or trajectory or connect those to planetary destiny. The world has not progressed by its wisdom in its evolution but by its persistence.

The world is not perfect, globalization is not either, nor the money or politics or leadership or education or family life or any other part of our society or culture is perfect....perfecting and evolving are not perfect by definition, they are but process and not result. We do not experience "result"....we experience "process"....and when we allow recent bias and local bias to insert its short sighted view on our perspective then we deprive ourselves of the vision required to witness the grandeur and immensity of all prior progress and the view of the inevitable destiny to come....but worse, we impose our very small and short and personal view onto all others...each of whom have a very different experience and perspective of the world.

So what is the alternative to progress....in this case globalization? How are the hands of time to be rolled back? Perhaps it is the failures and faults so obvious to many that might lead to further evolutionary progress in-response to those prior failures?

To nod: So are we discussing some form of alternative to globalization? Or a wiser process? Given today's global transportation and global communication (cited by the UB as the greatest of all evolutionary progressors in the 20th century) - how do we retreat or go back from here? And who wants to? And why? The past is gone...to lament its passing is simply silly...it's GONE! What's the way forward? Nationalism? Isolationism? Seems there is but one way from here...into the adventure of further trial and error and its attendant successes and failures and surprises and disappointments. There's nothing chaotic about it if one's time unit is appropriate in the viewing of our world today. Or so I think.

To Midi/Caligastia (the same):Sounds like there is much to be confused about as we face each day and the challenges of planetary progress. One's certainty is the inverse proportion or ratio of their accuracy IMO. I am certain of source and destiny and the power of those who rule the universes and the power of love in this reality....but not much more. Every day I face choices, dilemmas, adjustments, mystery, surprises, and intersections of circumstances, situations, and relationships which require thought, consideration, deep contemplation, and prayer to find my way through confusion and uncertainty. Those who do not pay attention or are so certain in their view do not suffer confusion or uncertainty...pity to suffer from such certainty of opinion as nothing will prevent progress, learning, and wisdom like such love for one's point of view.



And for SeLA:

68:1.7 (764.3) The modern phrase, “back to nature,” is a delusion of ignorance, a belief in the reality of the onetime fictitious “golden age.” ....

I grew up in the "ideal" and golden age...family farm/homestead and horseback...wonderful...I miss it so much. Well...not the hauling of wood and water or crop failure and plucking chickens and homemade clothes so much...and I didn't know at the time but the threat of hunger, even starvation for my parents on the same farm in their youth walking to the one room school house and no electricity anywhere, grandma trading eggs and butter for flour and sugar....ahhhh...the good ole days!!

[SEla_Kelly]

Independence versus control: the more independence one gains, the more control he has over his affairs (also, the more control he has over the affairs of the environment). In order to ensure that independence can be achieved by some members of society, those who have attained such status allow others to voluntarily become apprentices or serfs. And so long as one agrees to service, there are certain obligations that you take upon in order to learn independence from another. Thus, there is a delicate power that is maintained.

Until 1935 or so, we would imagine that mankind had not learned the proper technologies in order to bestow AND teach independence. Certainly, industrial capacity was sufficient to equip nations with the tools of survival.
But the necessary skills were not retained, in practice though they be retained by blue prints and industry specification. how can you say that Globalism is proceeding according to progress, when trade secrets are no longer passed on intimately this way??? We have traded our secrets not only to foreign neighbours, but to the machinery.

America would deprive its citizens of resources but not "goods". Cannot you see that the goal of governments, American Government Institutions, after the World War II was to provide communities and neighboring nations with access to resources? Why have we been so willing to help the colony of Israel but interest has waned and volunteers are fearful of Pakistan, Kuwait.

But America and China now vye, grabbing and lusting after petrol reserves. The animal populations cannot sustain all of the peculiar interests of the wealthy middle class. Fledging nations were not allowed time to declare values, or diplomatic terms for visitors. And it even seems that the nations we have promised aid are suffering dependencies, while the Iranians and DPRK learn self-reliance.

IF we are allowing our registered corporations to practice by lower standards of law and order overseas, then we are by our own judgment guilty. But to deprive other nations of their rightful natural resources because of contract and banking license is the hurtful thing we are doing. Such obligations prevent others from gaining independence, if implemented by territories and communities.

Public opinion is not enough to sway decisions when the government is overseen by financial advisors. But humans know what is fair, and one day there will be an uprising that will be simple enough to overthrow the established meetingrooms and enstate more peaceful and harmonious policies. We certainly know that when an entire city marches together in solidarity, then and there new leaders are installed.

As corporations lose independence, they become immensely fearful that they will lose control: control to conduct business operations, and control of the service performed or marketshare unto society. But the seraphic planetary government observes who is acting independently versus whom would be attempting to control others. The confusion separates an individual from his mandate when acting against the inherent plan for progress (check with your thought adjuster for info on how you may contribute). It is necessary to bring the mindal plans into those who truly intend to benefit others.

[SEla_Kelly]

The idea that Slavery is wrong, that it is fundamentally a flawed concept, increases in direct relation to the fatherlessness of society. In fact, most of us spend our youth indebted to our parents, tuited to our teachers. We should mark with particular importance the day a parent acknowledges that their son has begun the apprenticeship. Although it is never intended to be permanent, we should rather embrace the idea of servitude.

In the world today, so much antipathy towards slavery indicates the refusal to truly learn. We should remember the sacred duty that the teacher gains (to treat the pupil as if one's own child), and forgive the abuses. The grave cry, try to distinguish, is that one has not found the proper teacher for their children, that in fact servitude in our culture has not progressed to the point of equanimity. You see because in general, the challenges that a youth will face are relatively predictable those challenges should be offered by one's teacher. If you teach that "slavery is the wrong way", you would be discouraging your students (rather, encouraging disobedience).

Until a child discovers enough meaning in life, they remain unproven. A person with ambition can overcome the unfairness of "the system", of society. But that ambition must be cultivated, even in the womb of an unborn infant. The fact of meaning cannot be taught by slogans or posters.

[Riktare]

Good things to consider FanOfVan, but I'm not yet convinced that globalization is really something associated with evolution or progression. The revelators seem to give examples over and over again where the real advances on our planet were made when certain groups having unusual capacity for development did isolate themselves or concentrated their activities at one place. If Andon and Fonta or the Badon tribes, for example, had not done so the factors that drive development would have become mixed with factors that counter development and would eventually be extinguished due to diffusion. That includes both biologic and cultural factors.

Today, we still have the biologic and cultural considerations. But maybe most important are factors that drive ideals. Those may need a place to incubate and grow before being placed at the mercy of overwhelming opposing or diffusing environments. For hundreds of years churches may have played such a role.

[Makalu]

i shouldn't really have to point out that the UB, in various places, openly advocates world government, world law, world economy, world police, world language, world religion (or at least a religion with a worldview) and the outcome of it all, world peace.

And it calls nationalism a delusional virus.

Religion has no new duties to perform, but it is urgently called upon to function as a
wise guide and experienced counselor in all of these new and rapidly changing human
situations. Society is becoming more mechanical, more compact, more complex, and more
critically interdependent. Religion must function to prevent these new and intimate interassociations from becoming mutually retrogressive or even destructive. Religion must act as the cosmic salt which prevents the ferments of progression from destroying the cultural savor of civilization. These new social relations and economic upheavals can result in lasting brotherhood only by the ministry of religion.

notice it says what society is becoming, doesn't really matter if you consider it progress or not. it is becoming with or without you.

[fanofVan]

Very interesting Riktare...brings some related things to mind:

First - if we were to compare the Mortal Epochs to the Psychic Circles (the global transformation by evolutionary progress and the personal transformation of progress - transferring the seat of identity from the material nature to the spirit nature - each with 7 major divisions with multiple issues for resolution within each of the seven) - I can see similarities in that progress is not uniform across the spectrum of potential (and required) evolutionary progress "points". Indeed, we are told that even a first circler, just so-close to fusion, often requires further collation and integration and harmonization of all the elements of progress....progress is not a homogenous process....some things take longer than others. The Papers list many specific and individual elements for planetary progress too and at each level of that epochal progress - see Paper 52.

Second - Paper 99 describes how evolutionary/institutional religions act as "brake" or "ballast" to too-rapid social changes and scientific/technological advances. It is obvious also that Urantia exists within multiple mortal epochs at once so there is significant disparity in the social, secular, technological, economic, and religious evolutionary progression. And, as you say, there are definite points and cycles of regression. We are given fair warning of Western cultures and very specific dangers of regression we face today.

Third - we are told that as go the parts so goes the whole - so all planetary epochal progress depends significantly upon the success that the individuals and collective whole experience in religious/personal transformation and wisdom acquired by that experience. The world does not have motive, intent, priority, experience, and wisdom....except as it is determined and delivered BY the individual minds and souls of the world. Epochal progress is limited by the collective personal progress acquired/achieved.

Finally for now, I am confident that the Papers teach the inevitability of globalization - one race, one language, one government, etc. That does not mean that efforts in that direction will be successful or that the strategies and tactics or even motives and intentions of those who promote globalization are pure or wise. But I do think that whatever makes us all more inter-dependent will deliver greater opportunity for compromise, cooperation, and mutual interests that will reduce the more destructive nature of competition and conflict.

Such efforts will most definitely result in dislocation, discomfort, adaptations, and actual material suffering as some will benefit and prosper by change while others will be left behind or even damaged. These effects are normal and play out within even a closed or nationalistic environment - from wagons to trains and buggy to automobile and 8 tracks to cassettes, etc. This is an inherent element of ALL progress in ALL forms of progress. I would propose that over 3-10 generations that globalization, regardless of its form or discomforts, will improve life for far more people than not - the greater good for the greater number - not the best for each during the experiential, evolutionary, planetary progressions through the Mortal Epochs.



Very interesting topic and discussion.

[fanofVan]

i shouldn't really have to point out that the UB, in various places, openly advocates world government, world law, world economy, world police, world language, world religion (or at least a religion with a worldview) and the outcome of it all, world peace.

And it calls nationalism a delusional virus.

Religion has no new duties to perform, but it is urgently called upon to function as a
wise guide and experienced counselor in all of these new and rapidly changing human
situations. Society is becoming more mechanical, more compact, more complex, and more
critically interdependent. Religion must function to prevent these new and intimate interassociations from becoming mutually retrogressive or even destructive. Religion must act as the cosmic salt which prevents the ferments of progression from destroying the cultural savor of civilization. These new social relations and economic upheavals can result in lasting brotherhood only by the ministry of religion.

notice it says what society is becoming, doesn't really matter if you consider it progress or not. it is becoming with or without you.

Another bull's eye!!

I think the present may only truly be appreciated, understood, and placed into context by the proper time unit perspective. To view today by only the perspective of the brief, mortal life which is constantly assaulted by the vicissitudes of life and the edges of daily conflict (both great sources of confusion and uncertainty and inherently so and, alas, far too often the source of anxieties and fear - all of which contribute to the subjective distortions of view), simply does not provide an adequate depth of view or angle of view or expansion of view to appreciate the world's point of progress along the normal continuum from being first inhabited as a world and the tens/hundreds of thousands of generations required to attain planetary destiny.

The subjective view cannot "see" such a "view" we are taught. Thus, humanity is provided Epochal Revelations of universe fact to expand our view and provide us with context which help us to understand far better the struggles in our own brief life here and the planetary struggles witnessed during such a brief life. So long as any view the moment by only our own subjective, transitory, incomplete (and therefor - inaccurate) vision, then we will miss out on the glorious planetary transformation that every world experiences and will miss out on the confidence and contentment potential that such a long time and objective view can and will deliver to the believer.

If we cannot adjust our view, how then can we adjust our motives, intentions, priorities, and choices in this life?

99:1.1 (1086.4) Mechanical inventions and the dissemination of knowledge are modifying civilization; certain economic adjustments and social changes are imperative if cultural disaster is to be avoided. This new and oncoming social order will not settle down complacently for a millennium. The human race must become reconciled to a procession of changes, adjustments, and readjustments. Mankind is on the march toward a new and unrevealed planetary destiny.

99:1.2 (1086.5) Religion must become a forceful influence for moral stability and spiritual progression functioning dynamically in the midst of these ever-changing conditions and never-ending economic adjustments.

99:1.3 (1086.6) Urantia society can never hope to settle down as in past ages. The social ship has steamed out of the sheltered bays of established tradition and has begun its cruise upon the high seas of evolutionary destiny; and the soul of man, as never before in the world’s history, needs carefully to scrutinize its charts of morality and painstakingly to observe the compass of religious guidance. The paramount mission of religion as a social influence is to stabilize the ideals of mankind during these dangerous times of transition from one phase of civilization to another, from one level of culture to another.

Me here: We must employ the "panoramic" perspective or we will surely find ourselves in the weeds of mere politics and economic theories of the brief and passing moment we call now or today.

118:1.4 (1295.4) Experience, wisdom, and judgment are the concomitants of the lengthening of the time unit in mortal experience. As the human mind reckons backward into the past, it is evaluating past experience for the purpose of bringing it to bear on a present situation. As mind reaches out into the future, it is attempting to evaluate the future significance of possible action. And having thus reckoned with both experience and wisdom, the human will exercises judgment-decision in the present, and the plan of action thus born of the past and the future becomes existent.

118:1.5 (1295.5) In the maturity of the developing self, the past and future are brought together to illuminate the true meaning of the present. As the self matures, it reaches further and further back into the past for experience, while its wisdom forecasts seek to penetrate deeper and deeper into the unknown future. And as the conceiving self extends this reach ever further into both past and future, so does judgment become less and less dependent on the momentary present. In this way does decision-action begin to escape from the fetters of the moving present, while it begins to take on the aspects of past-future significance.

118:1.8 (1295. The time unit of immaturity concentrates meaning-value into the present moment in such a way as to divorce the present of its true relationship to the not-present — the past-future. The time unit of maturity is proportioned so to reveal the co-ordinate relationship of past-present-future that the self begins to gain insight into the wholeness of events, begins to view the landscape of time from the panoramic perspective of broadened horizons, begins perhaps to suspect the nonbeginning, nonending eternal continuum, the fragments of which are called time.



There are so many occasions and discussions where this little moment of Zen applies:

"Things are not as they appear....and neither are they different!"

[MidiChlorian]

118:1.4 (1295.4) Experience, wisdom, and judgment are the concomitants of the lengthening of the time unit in mortal experience. As the human mind reckons backward into the past, it is evaluating past experience for the purpose of bringing it to bear on a present situation. As mind reaches out into the future, it is attempting to evaluate the future significance of possible action. And having thus reckoned with both experience and wisdom, the human will exercises judgment-decision in the present, and the plan of action thus born of the past and the future becomes existent.

The UB quote which you presented somewhat contradicts your previous statement in another post where you state " - how do we retreat or go back from here? And who wants to? And why? The past is gone...to lament its passing is simply silly...it's GONE! What's the way forward?" -- where I understand it is not an exact association but reminds me of the following.

Where basically what this quote is indicating is that: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" (George Santayana), on this case if we don't learn from past mistakes, we are destined to repeat them.
So, what can we learn from this as might be considered as similar as we plow into the future? I for one can see some big repetitions coming in our future if we don't stop and associate the past to what seems to be repeating itself, although by a new name or with subtle differences.

[fanofVan]

118:1.4 (1295.4) Experience, wisdom, and judgment are the concomitants of the lengthening of the time unit in mortal experience. As the human mind reckons backward into the past, it is evaluating past experience for the purpose of bringing it to bear on a present situation. As mind reaches out into the future, it is attempting to evaluate the future significance of possible action. And having thus reckoned with both experience and wisdom, the human will exercises judgment-decision in the present, and the plan of action thus born of the past and the future becomes existent.

The UB quote which you presented somewhat contradicts your previous statement in another post where you state " - how do we retreat or go back from here? And who wants to? And why? The past is gone...to lament its passing is simply silly...it's GONE! What's the way forward?" -- where I understand it is not an exact association but reminds me of the following.

Where basically what this quote is indicating is that: "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" (George Santayana), on this case if we don't learn from past mistakes, we are destined to repeat them.
So, what can we learn from this as might be considered as similar as we plow into the future? I for one can see some big repetitions coming in our future if we don't stop and associate the past to what seems to be repeating itself, although by a new name or with subtle differences.

Hello Midi...sorry but I fail to see any form of contradiction in my statement(s) and the posted text, but I look forward to your additional clarification. Allow me to address the issue as I can but it is likely I'll miss the point you are attempting to make (or have made which I just don't understand yet).

From my perspective, the Papers teach the importance and inherent value of "repetition" for our personal spiritual progress. When the text says...decisions, more decisions, and more decisions...I think they are referring to decisions which must be repeated sufficiently to become natural responses to a certain choice or set of choices (this is related to our earlier discussion on confusion and uncertainty)...this learned, now natural, response is described as a "reflex" choice...which, to me, suggests that error comes in at least two forms: the wrong decision but also the less-correct or not yet perfected choice. Repetitiveness of intersections of certain kinds of choice allows the mortal and the ascender the opportunity to not only correct incorrect/evil/mistaken choices of ours in our past (maybe even yesterday or earlier today!) but, also, to begin to discern the even better, wiser, and more productive choice available within the same decision! I think the text you re-posted goes directly to this fact and the function of repeated decisions based on better perspective, more experience, and the wisdom gained by that experience.

118:1.4 (1295.4) Experience, wisdom, and judgment are the concomitants of the lengthening of the time unit in mortal experience. As the human mind reckons backward into the past, it is evaluating past experience for the purpose of bringing it to bear on a present situation. As mind reaches out into the future, it is attempting to evaluate the future significance of possible action. And having thus reckoned with both experience and wisdom, the human will exercises judgment-decision in the present, and the plan of action thus born of the past and the future becomes existent.

Me here: Thusly, I certainly agree that those who do not learn from the past are "required" (as opposed to "doomed" or "condemned") to repeat and repeat and repeat again until the lesson is learned. I think this operates on both the personal and the planetary basis regarding all progress. Some lessons are learned quicker than others. So I would propose that the individual and civilization both must learn the true "reflex" responses that acknowledge universe reality. I think the more that self importance determines choices at either the personal or social level, the longer the past is repeated until such time that the truth and reality lesson is learned and embraced which will always result in a transformation of motive, intention, priority, strategy, tactic, and the shared objective of the "ideal"...the real and true ideal based on the universal realities of love of others and service to one another as the family of humanity within this friendly and well managed universe!

It is my belief that while secular society may develop improved ethics and morality in our organizations and applications of institutions, still would we suffer by any continued lack of spirituality as the core and foundation of such ethics and morality as illustrated in the multiple levels of the Golden Rule...which brings us back to the evolutionary progress dependence on learning by repetition to always adjust and adapt to ever greater experience, wisdom, and Divine insight and motive...and it is this progressive and transcendent form of problem solving and decision making that should, comfortably and confidently and rewardingly, carry us through all confusions and uncertainties as we must strive to better and better to discern more and more so that our choice reflect a growing transformation delivered by this experience and a growing perspective and skill which delivers wisdom....and spiritual progress....and as the each so grows, so does the all grow and begins to reflect that growth both individually and collectively.
I appreciate the opportunity to consider and discuss such important issues.

[nodAmanaV]

Is the element of self-gratification out of control in the world? Then globalization will remain a whirlwind.

(68:2.2) While the level of intelligence has contributed considerably to the rate of cultural progress, society is essentially designed to lessen the risk element in the individual's mode of living, and it has progressed just as fast as it has succeeded in lessening pain and increasing the pleasure element in life. Thus does the whole social body push on slowly toward the goal of destiny—extinction or survival—depending on whether that goal is self-maintenance or self-gratification. Self-maintenance originates society, while excessive self-gratification destroys civilization.

[Makalu]

there are a number of issues with unbalanced growth in our culture with too much growth in some areas and very little in corresponding areas and many of them boil down to growth of personal liberties without the balancing growth of self-control and self-regulation.

[Riktare]

99:1.3 (1086.6) Urantia society can never hope to settle down as in past ages. The social ship has steamed out of the sheltered bays of established tradition and has begun its cruise upon the high seas of evolutionary destiny; and the soul of man, as never before in the world’s history, needs carefully to scrutinize its charts of morality and painstakingly to observe the compass of religious guidance. The paramount mission of religion as a social influence is to stabilize the ideals of mankind during these dangerous times of transition from one phase of civilization to another, from one level of culture to another.

Me here: We must employ the "panoramic" perspective or we will surely find ourselves in the weeds of mere politics and economic theories of the brief and passing moment we call now or today.

Exactly! I knew there was a reason I don't like politics. With politics it seems it's normally the element representing the least common denominator that wins and gains power. And with today's "democracy" the least common denominator can be very, very low. But a study of what the revelators say about democracy is another topic.

[SEla_Kelly]

In reply to Van's third point, the suggestion that Urantia was in a "twilight state" between epochs (namely, the 4th and 5th Epoch). What is one hundred years, in respect to the passing of time for the cosmos? Very little, I would say. I would think that Urantia is yet in the intermediate zone. You have not seen the preparation, as it were for the tribes of Amadon who retreated to their peninsular fortress. The promises of "the summertime of our world" are as yet a long ways off. We know that the coming of Michael or other Sons hopefully Trinity Sons cannot come without the sincere labours of human individuals and their family. We could say that "the ground is not yet prepared for such a coming." At least, not in full and unto all mankind.

But to think, that soon a generation would arise in mutual harmony that would yearn for the adjutant spirits to become expressive within them. They would develop the mindal potential in order to cast away the shackles of religious nomenclature. That is how the truth expressed in the Urantia Book eventually becomes more probable. The reality of the Supreme Being's acknowledging Christ Michael would be vailidated by society.