An open forum for general discussions of a spiritual nature where guests and readers entertain the teachings of The Urantia Book.
Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:24 am +0000
As Urantia Book students, we are cognizant of more than what is currently defined as citizenship, even up to citizenship in a universe.
The Urantia Book presents a picture of the destiny of government. That eventually it will expand and evolve to the inclusion of all the people of the world together through the divestment of national sovereignty and the installment of global sovereignty, world government, government of, by, and for All Mankind.
When I first read what the Urantia Book says about this, I got really excited. The presentation of comparing it to the federal government of the United States of America in particular gave me a sense of hope in anticipation of what was to come. But that was then, and this is now. Clearly, it's going to be a process filled with many pitfalls. Obviously though, this part of evolution has begun in earnest, it's a first step.
At the moment, in the world there exists an ideology commonly referred to as globalization along with it's American corollary, globalism. It's my opinion that neither of them will succeed in bringing about mankind government because it's actually a hindrance. This ideology isn't right, and the people of the world won't benefit from it, because it denies the right for all to make a fair living when capitalists only concern themselves with profit. Through this, the purveyors of dishonesty and self-serving insincerity are hard at work keeping the good people of Earth off balance, overwhelmed and hoodwinked. The Urantia Book warns against the unfortunate over extention of the well placed profit motive, it's inherent underbelly and how it can be a major factor in becoming a drag on society's forward evolution. That being said, I acknowledge that what's at the heart of the ideology of globalization is laying the groundwork toward the sovereignty of mankind government. Nonetheless, it's disingenuous goal (profit motive) is concurrently undermining its validity as a path to the realization of true global sovereignty as it's just another example of how the tendency to be impatient only goes to further misery and error (unemployment).
If globalization is a first step, how should it adjust and conform to spiritual obligations? What will need to happen for "We the People" to realize the destiny of mankind government? Or perhaps, if it's your opinion that globalization is the correct path, you might explain where I have it all wrong.
Last edited by nodAmanaV
on Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:54 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.
Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:46 pm +0000
In any discussion of globalization it would be very important to agree on two points of reference/context: First - is the inevitability of the result and the ideals presented in the UB for that inevitability; Second - is the factual history of our world related to the Mortal Epochs and its evolutionary transition to the current (if ill-defined, chaotic, and uncertain) state of the political/social/economic environment on our world today. The eventual outcome of globalization and the reality of its discernable progress through history provide a context to consider within the discussion of "where are we" and/or "where do we proceed from here".
I think it easy to discern several "turning points" in our history, from the "empire" builders to the printing press was a long, slow, laborious evolutionary process resulting in cities and trade and craft and mobility (cross fertilizations on every level). From the time of print, evolution accelerated exponentially. Then came the century of steel, internal combustion, telegraph, telephone, radio, electricity, transportation, satellites, international trade and other global institutions, and then.....the internet. WOW!!!
The Son's gift of the Spirit of Truth has been at work these past 20 centuries and 80 generations +/- so, as you say nod, there is also a spiritualization element combined within the secular/material progressions. I would suggest that a study of world history would reveal the gift of the Son 2000 years ago was a similar point of change-acceleration like the printing press was a few centuries ago/later.
The sins and failures of capitalism are well known and documented...however, it is that very "mechanism" (along with militarized technological innovations - warfare) which has consistently been the fulcrum of evolutionary transformation for the world into and through the normal or normalizing planetary epochs as planned and managed by the Most Highs and their many "agents" of change. Personally I am confident in the potential today to reach the eventual, certain outcome that is every single inhabited world's destiny.
I am gratified to have lived in a time where one might witness the evolutionary transformation from horse and wagon to moon shots and the internet!!!! How can one not feel the momentum and see the potential....especially in light of the Papers!!??
I would offer the opinion that one thing to come which will be a leap forward is a confederation of true democracies that share human rights ideals and create a borderless alliance of trade, defense, education, and mobility. My personal and simplified "political" ideal is: equal protection under the law and equal opportunity for education, craft, expression, and self determination (not equal outcomes or uniformity of results). Not many countries would make muster quite yet....I don't think the USA could qualify right now for example. But it's an ideal, something to aspire to and hope for.
I think over-much focus on the failures and faults of capitalism distracts from the reality that the more inter-dependent all the people of the world become for livelihood (trade and employment), the less and less that armed conflict and destruction provide any motivation BECAUSE OF the connecting and binding influence of "capital" - the basis of capital"ism". It is not the capital in capitalism that is any form of deterrent or obstacle to our planetary destiny - it is the lack of transparency and accountability that is lacking in the application of capital through, by, via capitalism. Before we worry about inserting spirituality into socio/econ/political process - well...some simple ethics would be an excellent turning point. Leadership must truly be motivated to act for the greater good for the greatest number.
In my opinion, capitalism is not any form of obstacle to bringing ethics to capitalism. Globalization will not functionally stabilize until it too mutually (those in the new confederation of nations) agree to require ethics in all levels of social service and representation. The success of either mutual dependence or ethical leadership will do much to drag the other forward into evolutionary progress. It will not be pretty. It will not be quick. It will not be predictable. But it is coming, as certain as gravity itself. I don't worry much about the faults and failures of today compared to the obvious progress so easily discerned in our past and the certain inevitability of the outcome.
The Papers provide much to consider as we ponder and discuss Nationalism vs. Globalization....and the UB! Great topic.
Last edited by fanofVan
on Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:37 am +0000, edited 2 times in total.
Mon Dec 05, 2016 7:51 am +0000
economic interdependence and trade, regardless of the motive behind the type of economy, is a much stronger international bond than political alliances and a world currency will precede a world government...and it'll be a major economic upheaval and restructuring but the advent of service-motive over profit-motive is, and will continue to be, a gradual evolution.
Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:08 am +0000
It's good to be aware of what the future brings. That gives us a sense of hope, especially when world situations appear bleak and chaotic, as are often the case today. But because of TUB we can look toward and anticipate the future with optimism, we can live joyful and fulfilling lives in the midst of adversity.
Let's view the future like a string stretched out on a table and our current place in evolution as a knot on the string. The string can be pulled ever so slowly from the front and eventually the knot will reach the other side, the destiny of our world as described in TUB. Or we can attempt to hurry things along and try to push the string from behind to move the knot forward faster, a kind of social impatience that may wish for the better future without preparing the groundwork. I believe progress is a combination of both forces, maybe two steps forward, one step back.
In order for the future to manifest as described in TUB individuals have to first change. Governments may impose "change for the better" but it won't last without a change of heart in the people. There are no dates tied to the phases of the future (see the Urantia Book timeline -- http://truthbook.com/urantia-book/urantia-book-timeline
), but we are told that the steps toward eventual light and life come only through the transformation of the individual not through governments or nations or globalization. In order for wars and rumors of wars to fade away the teachings of Jesus, the Gospel of the Kingdom, must first permeate the hearts of all mankind.
Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:26 am +0000
One enormous problem with globalization is that, currently, it seems that the once capable countries are wired to inherit all of the problems and inabilities of the world at large while citizens of those countries who can and are willing help solve the problems are increasingly stripped of the power and resources to do so. The giving away of hard earned intellectual property and technology to those who have not earned it and who will either squander, devalue or worse yet abuse it is not wise.
Sweden is a prime example. Economically, culturally, perhaps spiritually, globalization has set uncontrolled motions into play that threaten to destroy what once had unique value there. In terms of cultural values it clearly appears as though the "least common denominator" or standard is the one that wins and is propagated. Possibly, a vague recognition of that has stimulated thought and debate about what in society and civilization must be conserved.
195:8.10 (2082.2) Without God, without religion, scientific secularism can never co-ordinate its forces, harmonize its divergent and rivalrous interests, races, and nationalisms. This secularistic human society, notwithstanding its unparalleled materialistic achievement, is slowly disintegrating. The chief cohesive force resisting this disintegration of antagonism is nationalism. And nationalism is the chief barrier to world peace.
Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:16 am +0000
Some very good points...thanks Larry for the link....an awesome presentation for our education and consideration on this topic. I know that nod has an interest in Paper 72 - Government on a Neighboring Planet - and it does provide interesting facts and warnings related to the discussion....one of the most illuminating such facts, to me, is how rapidly progress can come to a world where ethics and morality become primary drivers of public service and the institutions of economics, politics, and industry.
To one of Larry's points...it was the turning of one heart and the choices of one mind which opened the door on this world to rapid acceleration of socio/economic progress where the greater good for the greatest number delivered a shift in priority and policy...in this case, the person was a dictator who relinquished power and control for the benefit of all others. We have enjoyed similar paradigm shifts but personal greed and power hunger still delays that certain progress still to come on our world.
It is my belief that the Son's Spirit is working to break down this persistent self-importance in each mind and all minds....which will, eventually, break down such barriers and propel our world forward further into the Planetary Mortal Epochs - described in Paper 52.
A study of Papers 52, 71, and 72 should help students realize the certainty of future outcomes and the great progress already realized and the many obstacles to still overcome in that evolutionary process that all worlds go through, each in their/our own unique way. It appears obvious that the profit motive which drives capital-ism has yet to deliver its full measure of progress to our world. I also am aware of a very well identifiable "shift" in the philanthropic applications of both labor and capital by institutions, the wealthiest capitalists, and the working people of our world (easily verified by empirical evidence of the fact and the results of human generosity and its growth in our world). The last few decades have benefitted much by this rising tide of "service-motivated" capitalism where individuals freely choose to contribute for the benefit of others and not for their own self interests. "Social capital" is a progressive factor to consider when studying the profit motive and economic transformation of our world.
As Makalu says - economic interdependence leads us away from some very bad things and leads us toward some very important transformative changes. The rising tide of philanthropic capital formation and application should be seen as another and distinct signal of planetary progress...the Son's Spirit speaks to each of us about the parable of the Good Samaritan and our need to love and serve one another...despite all differences and our own self interest.
Personally, I am thrilled by what I gauge to be progress, momentum, and direction on this world - now the Shrine of Nebadon and a most beloved and well cared for world among all other worlds!! = )
72:12.1 (819.5) Although the society and government of this unique people are in many respects superior to those of the Urantia nations, it should be stated that on the other continents (there are eleven on this planet) the governments are decidedly inferior to the more advanced nations of Urantia.
72:12.2 (819.6) Just now this superior government is planning to establish ambassadorial relations with the inferior peoples, and for the first time a great religious leader has arisen who advocates the sending of missionaries to these surrounding nations. We fear they are about to make the mistake that so many others have made when they have endeavored to force a superior culture and religion upon other races. What a wonderful thing could be done on this world if this continental nation of advanced culture would only go out and bring to itself the best of the neighboring peoples and then, after educating them, send them back as emissaries of culture to their benighted brethren! Of course, if a Magisterial Son should soon come to this advanced nation, great things could quickly happen on this world.
72:12.3 (820.1) This recital of the affairs of a neighboring planet is made by special permission with the intent of advancing civilization and augmenting governmental evolution on Urantia. Much more could be narrated that would no doubt interest and intrigue Urantians, but this disclosure covers the limits of our permissive mandate.
72:12.4 (820.2) Urantians should, however, take note that their sister sphere in the Satania family has benefited by neither magisterial nor bestowal missions of the Paradise Sons. Neither are the various peoples of Urantia set off from each other by such disparity of culture as separates the continental nation from its planetary fellows.
72:12.5 (820.3) The pouring out of the Spirit of Truth provides the spiritual foundation for the realization of great achievements in the interests of the human race of the bestowal world. Urantia is therefore far better prepared for the more immediate realization of a planetary government with its laws, mechanisms, symbols, conventions, and language — all of which could contribute so mightily to the establishment of world-wide peace under law and could lead to the sometime dawning of a real age of spiritual striving; and such an age is the planetary threshold to the utopian ages of light and life.
6. The Profit Motive
71:6.1 (805.5) Present-day profit-motivated economics is doomed unless profit motives can be augmented by service motives. Ruthless competition based on narrow-minded self-interest is ultimately destructive of even those things which it seeks to maintain. Exclusive and self-serving profit motivation is incompatible with Christian ideals — much more incompatible with the teachings of Jesus.
71:6.2 (805.6) In economics, profit motivation is to service motivation what fear is to love in religion. But the profit motive must not be suddenly destroyed or removed; it keeps many otherwise slothful mortals hard at work. It is not necessary, however, that this social energy arouser be forever selfish in its objectives.
71:6.3 (805.7) The profit motive of economic activities is altogether base and wholly unworthy of an advanced order of society; nevertheless, it is an indispensable factor throughout the earlier phases of civilization. Profit motivation must not be taken away from men until they have firmly possessed themselves of superior types of nonprofit motives for economic striving and social serving — the transcendent urges of superlative wisdom, intriguing brotherhood, and excellency of spiritual attainment.
Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:29 am +0000
Thank you everyone for your comments. I'm a bit tied down with work and time is limited but I wanted to chime in briefly. I'm heartened with all your posts.
Yes Brad, I do have a special interest in Paper 72 because it certainly provides a guide and highlights where improvements are needed in progressing properly regarding many pertinent things. Paper 71 is also relevant to what's a big problem in moving things forward, the lack of ethics by capitalists.
I too see that this moment is one of hope and anticipation of great things to come. What's interesting to me is how many good and bad things are occurring at the same time across the board in many countries while the current shake up seems to have developed a situation where a new look at things is in play.
The one thing I'd like to add is how the so-called free Press is poorly functioning in my opinion. There are few reporters doing real journalism. The press is unfortunately steeped in mere political propaganda. There are few sources of unbiased information out there and I think until this is ended, confusion will persist. The unethical behavior of individual journalists is a major hurdle to overcome although their passion for what they think is good is commendable, currently their exceeding inclination to twist the truth is being exposed.
Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:40 am +0000
One more thing. Regarding reporters I've observed the major delineation occurs in whether or not they have faith in spiritual reality.
Mon Dec 05, 2016 4:10 pm +0000
69:9.18 The present social order is not necessarily right—not divine or sacred—but mankind will do well to move slowly in making changes. That which you have is vastly better than any system known to your ancestors. Make certain that when you change the social order you change for the better. Do not be persuaded to experiment with the discarded formulas of your forefathers. Go forward, not backward! Let evolution proceed! Do not take a backward step.
Evolution, not revolution.
Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:09 am +0000
Whether it is capitalism or socialism, the issue is of progress. I think what we are really looking at is a "beaurocracy" or "meritocracy", with a greater base of the population qualifying for community opportunities. You are suggesting it will be a borderless society, and that has been the tone during the Barack Hussein Obama years, but we cannot say that the trend will continue.
In fact, within beaurocracies, quality ensurance provides "inherent mistrust" of employees until they have proven loyalty to the state, et c.. The borders have grown: customs, job requirements, membership requirements, and subtler ones have even been established. We would say that one must fit into the common denominator in order to pass those tests, but the individuality and expression of the human ego, collectively logos, cannot be sacrificed. The Urantia Book suggests that we must change our institutions according to the ideal that arises from our own ethical socialisation.
And you can see that this is a time when many institutions (i.e. corporation, non-profit, or self-maintenance gov. institution) are trying to share the responsibilities of overall service administration. But it makes for an inefficient beaurocracy, and perhaps eventually we will see the dominance or monopolisation of the information authority by one organisation. With every merger, there may be deadly obligations, embedded in the contract, of perpetuation old follies. Therefore, it is an issue of instrumental citizens within those organisations preserving the "core services", the goodness of their institution. They will be merged into the greater institution and improve them from within.
To advance within a meritocracy, it is not just a hidden series of tests where one must pass the taboo of a culture in order to attain the next step of recognition. It is truly about the devotion that the individual has towards the goal of his service. "he will arise within the ranks out of his own merit." But we must ensure that the community education weeds out all false forms of recognition and realigns with the goal of progress, not glorifying athletes or creditting intellectuals too much.
Last edited by SEla_Kelly
on Tue Dec 06, 2016 6:35 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.
Tue Dec 06, 2016 5:58 am +0000
While the mortal and the ascender must learn to cope with and feast upon uncertainties, still may the tadpole have absolute confidence in source and destiny...and in this way, as Larry has said above, we may be joyful and content in this friendly universe and are able to lay aside all anxieties for our future and the future of our world. The circles of progress are traversed best without fear, worry, and doubt as to who is in control of all destinies and all certainties.
3:5.3 (51.2) In the affairs of men’s hearts the Universal Father may not always have his way; but in the conduct and destiny of a planet the divine plan prevails
; the eternal purpose of wisdom and love triumphs.
3:5.4 (51.3) Said Jesus: “My Father, who gave them to me, is greater than all; and no one is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.” As you glimpse the manifold workings and view the staggering immensity of God’s well-nigh limitless creation, you may falter in your concept of his primacy, but you should not fail to accept him as securely and everlastingly enthroned at the Paradise center of all things and as the beneficent Father of all intelligent beings
. There is but “one God and Father of all, who is above all and in all,” “and he is before all things, and in him all things consist.”
3:5.5 (51.4) The uncertainties of life and the vicissitudes of existence do not in any manner contradict the concept of the universal sovereignty of God. All evolutionary creature life is beset by certain inevitabilities.
Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:03 am +0000
nodAmanaV wrote:If globalization is a first step, how should it adjust and conform to spiritual obligations? What will need to happen for "We the People" to realize the destiny of mankind government? Or perhaps, if it's your opinion that globalization is the correct path, you might explain where I have it all wrong.
Our existence here is a very short amount of time when compared to eternity. We know there will be major changes in the way we govern ourselves and that might take a while. I think the most important thing we can do in the here and now is to understand the hints that TUB gives us about the energy source of creation and go ahead and solve our energy problems and put the Exxons of the world out of business. We can save millions of people form the horrors of the oil wars. This can only help in the transition to a just world government.
Wed Dec 07, 2016 11:56 am +0000
Everyone here has made some really good comments. Perhaps when the world has leaders who also hold the teachings of Jesus and the revelations of the Urantia Book dear things will improve. All we can do is to continue to pray for this or become these leaders ourselves.
Wed Dec 07, 2016 3:17 pm +0000
toto wrote:69:9.18 The present social order is not necessarily right—not divine or sacred—but mankind will do well to move slowly in making changes. That which you have is vastly better than any system known to your ancestors. Make certain that when you change the social order you change for the better. Do not be persuaded to experiment with the discarded formulas of your forefathers. Go forward, not backward! Let evolution proceed! Do not take a backward step.
graybear13 wrote:Our existence here is a very short amount of time when compared to eternity. We know there will be major changes in the way we govern ourselves and that might take a while. I think the most important thing we can do in the here and now is to understand the hints that TUB gives us about the energy source of creation and go ahead and solve our energy problems and put the Exxons of the world out of business. We can save millions of people form the horrors of the oil wars. This can only help in the transition to a just world government.
Although I agree with you in what you have said above it must be stressed that this transition
must be evolutionary. Imagine the sudden discovery and immediate use of a viable alternative to fossil fuels. Imagine the Exxons of the world suddenly out of business. There would be a global economic collapse that we could not recover from with untold human suffering that would make the horrors of the oil wars seem like a family feud. The quote from TUB above is very wise in that we must be careful to provide for an evolutionary transition that minimizes the damage of sudden changes. I believe that TUB also cautioned against the sudden emancipation of slaves. This may seem morally and ethically vile to us, yet perhaps it is wisdom that is ultimately more humane in the long run.
Thu Dec 08, 2016 9:28 am +0000
[quote="toto] Imagine the Exxons of the world suddenly out of business. There would be a global economic collapse that we could not recover from with untold human suffering that would make the horrors of the oil wars seem like a family feud. [quote="toto"]
Not necessarily. I think the good news is that if we develop an antigravity machine tomorrow, it will take a generation to remake our entire fleet of vehicles that move us around. This will put us back to work, like at the beginning of the industrial revolution, with the advantage of access to unlimited clean energy. The oil industry will be phased out and will not be missed. In the U.S., politicians don't think that "Green Technology" can create enough jobs to make a difference in our economy. Antigravity technology will change all that. All of those American capitalists on Wall street will jump on it like a dog on a bone when they see it work.
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