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Agon D. Onter wrote:
So you mean God. Yes. Why didn't you just say so? Why say "Ancient Father" if you meant God? I thought the meaning would be obvious. Now, please back up your claim by providing TUB quotes that show an example of God being "demanding". Any example will do. "Be you perfect as I am perfect" You said 'a demanding Ancient Father' and then you said that by 'ancient father' you meant Jesus or John the Baptist. But now you said you meant God. Jesus is God and John is his righthand man. And so are the prophets who spoke for Him.

Please show how God is ever "demanding". If you really don't want to do the Father's will in time, eventually you will experience annihilation in eternity. That clearly means he's demanding. Also, just as an aside, how are we to carry out this action of 'handing it (our copy of the Urantia Book) back to a demanding Ancient Father (God)'? How, exactly, do we do that If he doesn't ask for it, no need to worry. and why is it "dangerous"? Life is dangerous. The Urantia Book is a part of life.

Thanks in advance for your thoughtful response to my attempts to follow your meaning. Again, with a subject line that includes the word "danger" I do expect you to respond seriously and sincerely. I am doing my best. Jesus said "follow me". That's what I'm determined to do. I believe it's a demanding thing he asks of me. Jesus didn't waste time. His Father has expectations and I believe he expects them to be accomplished quickly.

(100:1.4) The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole.

The key word here is "quickest". Even with a beam in my eye, I can see why.


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nodAmanaV wrote:
Agon D. Onter wrote:
So you mean God. Yes. Why didn't you just say so? Why say "Ancient Father" if you meant God? I thought the meaning would be obvious. Now, please back up your claim by providing TUB quotes that show an example of God being "demanding". Any example will do. "Be you perfect as I am perfect" You said 'a demanding Ancient Father' and then you said that by 'ancient father' you meant Jesus or John the Baptist. But now you said you meant God. Jesus is God and John is his righthand man. And so are the prophets who spoke for Him.

Please show how God is ever "demanding". If you really don't want to do the Father's will in time, eventually you will experience annihilation in eternity. That clearly means he's demanding. Also, just as an aside, how are we to carry out this action of 'handing it (our copy of the Urantia Book) back to a demanding Ancient Father (God)'? How, exactly, do we do that If he doesn't ask for it, no need to worry. and why is it "dangerous"? Life is dangerous. The Urantia Book is a part of life.

Thanks in advance for your thoughtful response to my attempts to follow your meaning. Again, with a subject line that includes the word "danger" I do expect you to respond seriously and sincerely. I am doing my best. Jesus said "follow me". That's what I'm determined to do. I believe it's a demanding thing he asks of me. Jesus didn't waste time. His Father has expectations and I believe he expects them to be accomplished quickly.

(100:1.4) The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole.

The key word here is "quickest". Even with a beam in my eye, I can see why.

I must disagree that the "Ancient Father" is "God" as what many may assume when noted in Biblical text. However, it is more likely that the reference to "Ancient Father", thanks to Urantia Book, would in this case be associated to "Caligastia".

Now the UB had indicated that the intricate study of "The Book of Job", could shed some light on the understanding of many of the writings or books presented in what is presented in the Bible, but one should also take into account that what we consider to be the Bible is not all of the information which was available to the early scribes and was much to selectively restricted in the assumed completed works.

The UB has presented much on the Psalms and Job, presenting direct reasoning as to how and why they were presented as they were. Therefore, based on my own study of Job, the so called "Lord" or "God" noted within its narration is not who we UB readers would consider as our Universal Father.

Quote:
(1060.5) 96:7.5 The variegated picture of Deity presented in the Book of Job was the product of more than a score of Mesopotamian religious teachers extending over a period of almost three hundred years. And when you read the lofty concept of divinity found in this compilation of Mesopotamian beliefs, you will recognize that it was in the neighborhood of Ur of Chaldea that the idea of a real God was best preserved during the dark days in Palestine.


Quote:
(1070.5) 97:8.2 In order to understand how the devastating pressure and the inescapable coercion of secular history so terrorized the captive and alien-ruled Jews that they attempted the complete rewriting and recasting of their history, we should briefly survey the record of their perplexing national experience. It must be remembered that the Jews failed to evolve an adequate nontheologic philosophy of life. They struggled with their original and Egyptian concept of divine rewards for righteousness coupled with dire punishments for sin. The drama of Job was something of a protest against this erroneous philosophy. The frank pessimism of Ecclesiastes was a worldly wise reaction to these overoptimistic beliefs in Providence.


The danger which is implied with the Urantia Book, is that in its understanding, and assumption that it is the only truth, and its purpose, in part, is to minimize confusion, but if there is no value within Biblical type texts it would not mention the history behind their narration and to focus on where this confusion is, and why, if the intention was not to combine the context from both in order to understand and get an overall more complete picture.

The narration of history in the UB seems to be presented in such a way as to contradict Biblical accounting of history, but this may be intentional to really understand the context of the UB, to do otherwise could be dangerous, because the same thing would occur with the UB as has occurred with the Bible.

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Last edited by MidiChlorian on Sun Sep 18, 2016 5:59 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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fanofVan wrote:
Who do you accuse nod of burying their talents? How do you come by such intimate knowledge of others? What are you doing with your talent that gives you the right and the power and the ability to judge what others are doing (or not doing)? This is an ongoing theme of yours it seems. You have claimed before that there are specific things people need to be doing and make the claim as though you know what should be done by others.

Bradly, I think you may have misunderstood Nod's answers when he used the parable of the talents?
The individual who buried the talents, would be an individual who might not have enough self-confidence to take a chance in losing what they are entrusted with to build more from.
The same could be said for the "(100:1.4) The quickest way for a tadpole to become a frog is to live loyally each moment as a tadpole." Where it might be implied that to do nothing other than live loyally means that one does not need to take chances? If the servant who got one talent to hold for his master, thought that he was not able or felt that this was the best he could do, does not mean that that servant was inferior. Not everyone is the same, and there are some who feel that living their life to their ability is enough to progress from tadpole to frog, thinking that the evolution of time, is a safe way to progress, so why take a chance?

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MidiChlorian wrote:
The narration of history in the UB seems to be presented in such a way as to contradict Biblical accounting of history, but this may be intentional to really understand the context of the UB, to do otherwise could be dangerous, because the same thing would occur with the UB as has occurred with the Bible.

It's clear and obvious from the Bible and the Urantia Book that God is telling us to be careful, to pay attention, that there are definite consequences, good and bad. To say that the Urantia Book and the Bible don't indicate that God is demanding, is to be dismissive of the facts. Not only do they say he's demanding, they say he is commanding.

I like that.

If God demands that the universe is friendly, then we should be very mindful of the dangers of being unfriendly. Perhaps even, since we're all to live in this universe as friends some day, maybe we'll find there's actually an unwritten commandment there:

"Thou shall not be unfriendly."


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So you think Benjamins' FB post to be friendly? And you posted it and agreed with it to be friendly? Good to know. I hope for the relief of your anxieties regarding your demanding god and future nod. Mine is patient, merciful, kind, generous, warm, affectionate, loving as a father, and the source of all wisdom and love...which will conquer all resistance over time.

:? 8)

5:1.10 (64.1) The Father is not in spiritual hiding, but so many of his creatures have hidden themselves away in the mists of their own willful decisions and for the time being have separated themselves from the communion of his spirit and the spirit of his Son by the choosing of their own perverse ways and by the indulgence of the self-assertiveness of their intolerant minds and unspiritual natures.

5:1.11 (64.2) Mortal man may draw near God and may repeatedly forsake the divine will so long as the power of choice remains. Man’s final doom is not sealed until he has lost the power to choose the Father’s will. There is never a closure of the Father’s heart to the need and the petition of his children. Only do his offspring close their hearts forever to the Father’s drawing power when they finally and forever lose the desire to do his divine will — to know him and to be like him. Likewise is man’s eternal destiny assured when Adjuster fusion proclaims to the universe that such an ascender has made the final and irrevocable choice to live the Father’s will.

5:1.12 (64.3) The great God makes direct contact with mortal man and gives a part of his infinite and eternal and incomprehensible self to live and dwell within him. God has embarked upon the eternal adventure with man. If you yield to the leadings of the spiritual forces in you and around you, you cannot fail to attain the high destiny established by a loving God as the universe goal of his ascendant creatures from the evolutionary worlds of space.

2:4.4 (38.4) Mercy is the natural and inevitable offspring of goodness and love. The good nature of a loving Father could not possibly withhold the wise ministry of mercy to each member of every group of his universe children. Eternal justice and divine mercy together constitute what in human experience would be called fairness.

2:4.5 (38.5) Divine mercy represents a fairness technique of adjustment between the universe levels of perfection and imperfection. Mercy is the justice of Supremacy adapted to the situations of the evolving finite, the righteousness of eternity modified to meet the highest interests and universe welfare of the children of time. Mercy is not a contravention of justice but rather an understanding interpretation of the demands of supreme justice as it is fairly applied to the subordinate spiritual beings and to the material creatures of the evolving universes. Mercy is the justice of the Paradise Trinity wisely and lovingly visited upon the manifold intelligences of the creations of time and space as it is formulated by divine wisdom and determined by the all-knowing mind and the sovereign free will of the Universal Father and all his associated Creators.


5. The Love of God

2:5.1 (38.6) “God is love”; therefore his only personal attitude towards the affairs of the universe is always a reaction of divine affection. The Father loves us sufficiently to bestow his life upon us. “He makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.”

2:5.2 (39.1) It is wrong to think of God as being coaxed into loving his children because of the sacrifices of his Sons or the intercession of his subordinate creatures, “for the Father himself loves you.” It is in response to this paternal affection that God sends the marvelous Adjusters to indwell the minds of men. God’s love is universal; “whosoever will may come.” He would “have all men be saved by coming into the knowledge of the truth.” He is “not willing that any should perish.”


Last edited by fanofVan on Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:48 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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If the universe is friendly, only friends will live there.

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There is no "IF"....Jesus said the universe IS friendly.

:roll:


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nodAmanaV wrote:
MidiChlorian wrote:
The narration of history in the UB seems to be presented in such a way as to contradict Biblical accounting of history, but this may be intentional to really understand the context of the UB, to do otherwise could be dangerous, because the same thing would occur with the UB as has occurred with the Bible.

It's clear and obvious from the Bible and the Urantia Book that God is telling us to be careful, to pay attention, that there are definite consequences, good and bad. To say that the Urantia Book and the Bible don't indicate that God is demanding, is to be dismissive of the facts. Not only do they say he's demanding, they say he is commanding.

I like that.

If God demands that the universe is friendly, then we should be very mindful of the dangers of being unfriendly. Perhaps even, since we're all to live in this universe as friends some day, maybe we'll find there's actually an unwritten commandment there:

"Thou shall not be unfriendly."


God was not demanding or commanding that the universe be friendly. He was making an observation; a statement of fact.

Think what you like, Nod, with regard to your cousin's bizarre view of the TUB. For me, there is nothing but good that can come from reading and doing one's sincere best to follow the teachings of TUB.


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May the quest for truth release all from anxiety and fear related to our safety, care, and destiny!! God is GOOD.

132:2.4 (1458.1) The spiritually blind individual who logically follows scientific dictation, social usage, and religious dogma stands in grave danger of sacrificing his moral freedom and losing his spiritual liberty. Such a soul is destined to become an intellectual parrot, a social automaton, and a slave to religious authority.

132:2.5 (1458.2) Goodness is always growing toward new levels of the increasing liberty of moral self-realization and spiritual personality attainment — the discovery of, and identification with, the indwelling Adjuster. An experience is good when it heightens the appreciation of beauty, augments the moral will, enhances the discernment of truth, enlarges the capacity to love and serve one’s fellows, exalts the spiritual ideals, and unifies the supreme human motives of time with the eternal plans of the indwelling Adjuster, all of which lead directly to an increased desire to do the Father’s will, thereby fostering the divine passion to find God and to be more like him.

132:2.6 (1458.3) As you ascend the universe scale of creature development, you will find increasing goodness and diminishing evil in perfect accordance with your capacity for goodness-experience and truth-discernment. The ability to entertain error or experience evil will not be fully lost until the ascending human soul achieves final spirit levels.

132:2.7 (1458.4) Goodness is living, relative, always progressing, invariably a personal experience, and everlastingly correlated with the discernment of truth and beauty. Goodness is found in the recognition of the positive truth-values of the spiritual level, which must, in human experience, be contrasted with the negative counterpart — the shadows of potential evil.

132:2.8 (1458.5) Until you attain Paradise levels, goodness will always be more of a quest than a possession, more of a goal than an experience of attainment. But even as you hunger and thirst for righteousness, you experience increasing satisfaction in the partial attainment of goodness. The presence of goodness and evil in the world is in itself positive proof of the existence and reality of man’s moral will, the personality, which thus identifies these values and is also able to choose between them.

8)


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fanofVan wrote:
God is GOOD.

God is also GREAT.

(28:6.22) The estimate of greatness varies from sphere to sphere. To be great is to be Godlike. And since the quality of greatness is wholly determined by the content of goodness, it follows that, even in your present human estate, if you can through grace become good, you are thereby becoming great. The more steadfastly you behold, and the more persistently you pursue, the concepts of divine goodness, the more certainly will you grow in greatness, in true magnitude of genuine survival character.


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fanofVan wrote:
There is no "IF"....Jesus said the universe IS friendly.

I agree "fanofVan" that Jesus knew that the universe was friendly, but in the following UB narration, it indicates that Jesus' understanding was personal, having said: "I am absolutely assured that the entire universe is friendly to me —".

Quote:
(1469.3) 133:1.4 “Ganid, I can well understand how some of these problems perplex you, and I will endeavor to answer your question. First, in all attacks which might be made upon my person, I would determine whether or not the aggressor was a son of God — my brother in the flesh — and if I thought such a creature did not possess moral judgment and spiritual reason, I would unhesitatingly defend myself to the full capacity of my powers of resistance, regardless of consequences to the attacker. But I would not thus assault a fellow man of sonship status, even in self-defense. That is, I would not punish him in advance and without judgment for his assault upon me. I would by every possible artifice seek to prevent and dissuade him from making such an attack and to mitigate it in case of my failure to abort it. Ganid, I have absolute confidence in my heavenly Father’s overcare; I am consecrated to doing the will of my Father in heaven. I do not believe that real harm can befall me; I do not believe that my lifework can really be jeopardized by anything my enemies might wish to visit upon me, and surely we have no violence to fear from our friends. I am absolutely assured that the entire universe is friendly to me — this all-powerful truth I insist on believing with a wholehearted trust in spite of all appearances to the contrary.”


Then there is the following which seems to define what the "universe" represents, in relation to this statement - "wisdom"?

Quote:
(2094.7) 196:3.8 2. Interpretation of the universewisdom. Only the spirit-indwelt mind can comprehend that the universe is friendly to the individual.


Is it possible that we are misinterpreting the meaning of "universe" in this context, as external rather than internal?

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Last edited by MidiChlorian on Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:39 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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fanofVan wrote:
May the quest for truth release all from anxiety and fear related to our safety, care, and destiny!! God is GOOD.

132:2.4 (1458.1) The spiritually blind individual who logically follows scientific dictation, social usage, and religious dogma stands in grave danger of sacrificing his moral freedom and losing his spiritual liberty. Such a soul is destined to become an intellectual parrot, a social automaton, and a slave to religious authority.
[. . .]


Thank you "fanofVan" for presenting some proof from the UB that there is danger to the individual, regardless of what "danger" has been interpreted or understood as being.

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MidiChlorian wrote:
132:2.4 (1458.1) The spiritually blind individual who logically follows scientific dictation, social usage, and religious dogma stands in grave danger of sacrificing his moral freedom and losing his spiritual liberty. Such a soul is destined to become an intellectual parrot, a social automaton, and a slave to religious authority.
[. . .]

Thank you "fanofVan" for presenting some proof from the UB that there is danger to the individual, regardless of what "danger" has been interpreted or understood as being.

This is all Ray is saying, isn't he?

Thanks MidiChlorian for observing it and bringing it to our attention.


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Actually Benjamins is claiming to be a religious authority and that the Revelation is only for those of religious authority and goes on to extensively list all the failures and faults of "most" UB readers. You, nod, have inserted a scary view of your god and of UB students too that is not factual....according to the UB itself.

The DANGER is not derived from or related to the Revelation in any way or a stern, demanding god. The dangers are the personal embrace of fear and superiority and spiritual pride and the anxieties caused by determining the shortcomings of others with such spiritual pride as Benjamins so prominently demonstrates in his accusations and falsehoods.

Benjamins attacks and slanders notwithstanding, he still doesn't know a midwayer from an Agondontor.

:roll:


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Slander is personal.


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