Urantia Book Forum

Urantia Book Discussion Board : Study Group
It is currently Sun Dec 15, 2019 2:05 pm +0000

All times are UTC - 7 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:08 am +0000
Posts: 240
Location: Ft, Myers Florida
Greetings,

Do you suppose that people who have never worshipped God, or people who have never prayed might not have true wisdom capacity?

While all normal human minds are in full possession of the mind adjutant levels of the first five (intuition, understanding, cooperation, knowledge and counsel, the last two circuits (worship and wisdom), worship comes before wisdom, not after.

It wasn't until Andon and Fonta prayed first, thereby achieving the 6th adjutant mind level (worship) that they perceived (had the wisdom) to journey north away from their inferior ancestors.

My point is that as long as we have a world full of people who don't pray, we will have people who are spiritually incapable of finding solutions to our mortal (and moral) problems.

We must start getting people to pray again.

_________________
Jim Watkins
SW Florida


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:16 pm +0000
Posts: 1126
Location: Nanticoke NY
I well recognise that the spirit of wisdom may be approached through worship, it is unfair to suggest that the lack of expresssion of prayer or worship may denote the lack of potential for either worship or wisdom, for those individuals.

It may be true that circumstance, fellowship, or even independent choice may be enough requisite for those persons to commune with God, and from there to garner/apply wisdom. Let us pray that we may find revelation to be more helpful to others.

_________________
to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:23 am +0000
Posts: 818
Greetings,

For what it is worth, here are the descriptions of the adjutants of worship and wisdom from the text:

The spirit of worship - the religious impulse, the first differential urge separating mind creatures into the two basic classes of mortal existence. The spirit of worship forever distinguishes the animal of its association from the soulless creatures of mind endowment. Worship is the badge of spiritual-ascension candidacy. 36:5:11

The spirit of wisdom - the inherent tendency of all moral creatures towards orderly and progressive evolutionary advancement. This is the highest of the adjutants, the spirit co-ordinator and articulator of the work of all the others. This spirit is the secret of that inborn urge of mind creatures which initiates and maintains the practical and effective program of the ascending scale of existence; that gift of living things which accounts for their inexplicable ability to survive and, in survival, to utilize the co-ordination of all their past experience and present opportunities for the acquisition of all of everything that all of the other six mental ministers can mobilize in the mind of the organism concerned. Wisdom is the acme of intellectual performance. Wisdom is the goal of a purely mental and moral existence. 36:5:12


One might ask what it is about the spirit of worship that distinguishes the human mind from the animal mind. Jesus explained this once to Ganid:

That afternoon Jesus and Ganid had both enjoyed playing with a very intelligent shepherd, and Ganid wanted to know whether the dog had a soul, whether it had a will, and in response to his questions Jesus said: “The dog has a mind which can know material man, his master, but cannot know God, who is spirit; therefore the dog does not possess a spiritual nature and cannot enjoy a spiritual experience. The dog may have a will derived from nature and augmented by training, but such a power of mind is not a spiritual force, neither is it comparable to the human will, inasmuch as it is not reflective — it is not the result of discriminating higher and moral meanings or choosing spiritual and eternal values. It is the possession of such powers of spiritual discrimination and truth choosing that makes mortal man a moral being, a creature endowed with the attributes of spiritual responsibility and the potential of eternal survival.” Jesus went on to explain that it is the absence of such mental powers in the animal which makes it forever impossible for the animal world to develop language in time or to experience anything equivalent to personality survival in eternity. As a result of this day’s instruction Ganid never again entertained belief in the transmigration of the souls of men into the bodies of animals. 130.2:8

Respectfully,
Rexford


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:23 pm +0000
Posts: 641
jwatkins00 wrote:
We must start getting people to pray again.



By what means do you propose to do this?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:08 am +0000
Posts: 240
Location: Ft, Myers Florida
By promoting it within social circles.

By talking about it and describing the feeling of it.

_________________
Jim Watkins
SW Florida


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:23 pm +0000
Posts: 641
jwatkins00 wrote:
By promoting it within social circles.

By talking about it and describing the feeling of it.



144:3.14 Jesus taught the twelve always to pray in secret; to go off by themselves amidst the quiet surroundings of nature or to go in their rooms and shut the doors when they engaged in prayer.

Do you think that talking about prayer and promoting it socially will get people to pray? It does not seem to me that Jesus encouraged prayer to be a social activity. In the quote above I think he meant prayer to be secretive and very individual.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:23 am +0000
Posts: 818
Greetings Jim,

I think we have to take your question seriously if there is any credence to the following quote:

Modern man is perplexed by the thought of talking things over with God in a purely personal way. Many have abandoned regular praying; they only pray when under unusual pressure — in emergencies. Man should be unafraid to talk to God, but only a spiritual child would undertake to persuade, or presume to change, God. 91:8:8  

Perhaps modern man is too proud of his scientific accomplishments or too distracted by technology to pray. Or perhaps, modern man does not feel he is under any unusual pressure, he's too comfortable and has no need to pray. Or, maybe modern man is too busy to pray. Most likely, it is a combination of many of these factors, including political ones which have succeeded in outlawing many forms of public prayer. (Actually, it is mainly public Christian prayer that is frowned on. Other public prayers are still allowed. I see Muslims praying in the middle of the mall and in parking lots all the time, and meditative yoga classes are in every park, but that is another issue.)

My best guess is what modern man needs most is to realize that prayer is not just asking a higher power to give him things. Nor is prayer a ritualistic ceremony or the repetitive chanting of certain words. Prayer really needs to be redefined to mean talking with God, sharing one's personal thoughts and attempting to show gratitude to someone who really means something to you, your spiritual Father. If God is not seen as a loving Father, who would pray, or have intimate chats with him? Those who understand this make their life a prayer, live always in the presence of God. Those who do not know this might benefit from a little education, I would think, since that is essentially what Jesus came to teach us about.

Respectfully
Rexford


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:23 pm +0000
Posts: 641
Rexford wrote:
Those who understand this make their life a prayer, live always in the presence of God. Those who do not know this might benefit from a little education, I would think, since that is essentially what Jesus came to teach us about.


Yes, I agree that Jesus is best suited to provide this education. But by what means would Jesus do this this with modern man? Should it be a compulsory education?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:08 am +0000
Posts: 240
Location: Ft, Myers Florida
I love Rexfords comments and believe man needs to be reducated about prayer, which is intended to provide a method whereby ones mind can be enlarged to real truth discovery in problem solving.

i agree with Jesus as well that prayer is best done in private.

The solution i am looking for is this: how does a world like Urantia, with so many incredibly problems to solve do so without wisdom?

Religious faith is down world wide, man is becoming more secular. At a time when we need God the most, we are trying to find answers that ignore spiritual ideals, which are eternal realities.

My simple solution: if we make prayer socially acceptable and show people this through social media, perhaps this seemingly idealistic approach will allow wisdom to play a greater role in problem solving.

Because what i see going on right now in society is pure retrogression, despite our tecnical advances.

_________________
Jim Watkins
SW Florida


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:23 pm +0000
Posts: 641
jwatkins00 wrote:
Because what i see going on right now in society is pure retrogression, despite our tecnical advances.


It is because of these technical advances that the situation looks bleaker than it actually is in reality. We must see big picture cycles at work.

There is wisdom but the glare of the neon lights blinds us to this fact. Take heart, for there is a silent majority of prayerful persons out there who also are mightily engaged in loving service.

There will come a day when so many will stop staring into their smart phones and start to phone home. Home is where the heart is and Father is waiting for the call. This entertainment madness will subside, meanwhile, be patient and keep the faith; be exceedingly glad.

To my son John, call Dad.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 5:02 am +0000
Posts: 1369
(84:8.2) Originally, property was the basic institution of self-maintenance, while marriage functioned as the unique institution of self-perpetuation. Although food satisfaction, play, and humor, along with periodic sex indulgence, were means of self-gratification, it remains a fact that the evolving mores have failed to build any distinct institution of self-gratification. And it is due to this failure to evolve specialized techniques of pleasurable enjoyment that all human institutions are so completely shot through with this pleasure pursuit. Property accumulation is becoming an instrument for augmenting all forms of self-gratification, while marriage is often viewed only as a means of pleasure. And this overindulgence, this widely spread pleasure mania, now constitutes the greatest threat that has ever been leveled at the social evolutionary institution of family life, the home.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 5:02 am +0000
Posts: 1369
The level of the lack of wisdom expressed by the news media in blatantly reporting outright lies and tremendous bias towards knowingly setting various groups of people in our society against each other so they can keep the attention of the people on viewing media for ratings to keep them propped up working in an industry that's going to leave all traditional media behind, is beyond belief.

How dare the media abuse and rape the "freedom" of the press like they're doing.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:23 am +0000
Posts: 818
Greetings Jim,

You wrote:
jwatkins00 wrote:
My simple solution: if we make prayer socially acceptable and show people this through social media, perhaps this seemingly idealistic approach will allow wisdom to play a greater role in problem solving.


Wouldn't it be easier to draw attention to the appreciation of truth, beauty and goodness first? Also, it is quite possible that people do not know that God lives in their minds and souls. In fact, I would venture a guess that most people are not even sure what a soul is. Educating people concerning the existence of their very own "higher" self, might be a place to start. People are essentially self-centered. Thinking about a God far off in the cosmos is harder to focus on than a God living in your own head who has come with a specific plan specially made just for you and only you.

Also, centering the spiritual life around a God without a personality is next to impossible. Jesus came to reveal the personality of God, but most people think that he came to establish the Church and convince the world to join it. Prayer has to be divested of its connection to organized religion and made to indicate a personal relationship with Deity.

Here's another quote about wisdom worth contemplating:

Education is the business of living; it must continue throughout a lifetime so that mankind may gradually experience the ascending levels of mortal wisdom, which are:
1. The knowledge of things.
2. The realization of meanings.
3. The appreciation of values.
4. The nobility of work — duty.
5. The motivation of goals — morality.
6. The love of service — character.
7. Cosmic insight — spiritual discernment.
And then, by means of these achievements, many will ascend to the mortal ultimate of mind attainment, God-consciousness. 71:7:5 -13 


Apparently, there are ascending levels of wisdom. I think our culture has #1 down pat, but #2 hasn't even got a foot in the door. Perhaps we should encourage people to ask "why" more often, to search for meaning. That would start some soul searching, I would think.

Respectfully,
Rexford


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2012 11:16 pm +0000
Posts: 1126
Location: Nanticoke NY
To make it acceptible and appropriate for everyone to pray.

This, to me, seems like a cultural issue. "To make prayer and praying seem ordinary and socially acceptible." I will say that a high degree of sensitivity must be used with the issue, since the type of prayers I encourage are spontaneously arising out of the soul.

We have in the West, after Buddhism became culturally/economically present, people who will salute each other with palms pressed, slightly bowing, and with the phrase "Namaste". Which is a good practice, yet many believe that the origin of the pressed palms is merely a gesture. You would say "spontaneously out of the soul" if this act causes one to low his head.

The point is, if one naturally bows or gestures to press her palms together, this act arises unconsciously and should not be repressed. Such acts should be praised but not discouraged, as prayer often helps the individual to have found insight. I suppose, then my point is that we should accept "the turning of the heads", "acts of effulgence", and any spontaneous acts that accompany mindfulness activity and that is the way to encourage prayers.

It is a sensitive issue because in the Gospels Jesus says "they already have their reward" for those public shows of charity and mercy. But we should defend public prayer because though public prayer may be described as an inward-seeking act of the human mind, even though accompanied by gesture, or song.

_________________
to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 5:02 am +0000
Posts: 1369
(163:4.13) Oriental salutation was a lengthy and elaborate ceremony; therefore had they been instructed to "salute no man by the way," which was a common method of exhorting one to go about his business without the waste of time. It had nothing to do with the matter of friendly greeting.

I don't mean to be short in posting quotes without commenting but time is short today and the quotes do speak for themselves.


Last edited by nodAmanaV on Mon Jul 18, 2016 2:20 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 31 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Registered users: Google Feedfetcher, Majestic-12 [Bot]


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group