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MannyC wrote:
Agon D. Onter wrote:
Does anyone really believe that an armed militia of citizens could stand more than a fraction of a second chance against the US government with its nuclear technologies and drone strike capabilities? Armed citizens are powerless against a tyrannical US government and will only create useless bloodshed, undoubtedly involving citizens who do NOT wish to participate in armed retaliation against, yes, even a tryannical, government.


The words of a coward. Perhaps Peter would have lived a bit longer had he persisted in his cowardly act of denying the Master three times. Peter did not die a coward. There is hope for those who agree with your words above.


Agon D. Onter wrote:
The TUB does not endorse armed insurrection.


Nor does TUB endorse cowardice. You would do well to arm yourself with Truth. The gun thing is a red herring.


Was Martin Luther King Jr. a coward? Mahatma Ghandi? How about Jesus? Cowards, all, in your opinion. You think very highly of yourself, Manny. You think you are wiser than these great men who understood that evil must be countered with love, not more evil; not more violence.

In his Ordination of the Twelve, Jesus said:

Quote:
140:3.14 (1571.1) “I am sending you out into the world to represent me and to act as ambassadors of my Father’s kingdom, and as you go forth to proclaim the glad tidings, put your trust in the Father whose messengers you are. Do not forcibly resist injustice; put not your trust in the arm of the flesh. If your neighbor smites you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. Be willing to suffer injustice rather than to go to law among yourselves. In kindness and with mercy minister to all who are in distress and in need.

140:3.15 (1571.2) “I say to you: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, and pray for those who despitefully use you. And whatsoever you believe that I would do to men, do you also to them.


and also

Quote:
159:5.9 (1770.1) Jesus did not hesitate to appropriate the better half of a Scripture while he repudiated the lesser portion. His great exhortation, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” he took from the Scripture which reads: “You shall not take vengeance against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself.” Jesus appropriated the positive portion of this Scripture while rejecting the negative part. He even opposed negative or purely passive nonresistance. Said he: “When an enemy smites you on one cheek, do not stand there dumb and passive but in positive attitude turn the other; that is, do the best thing possible actively to lead your brother in error away from the evil paths into the better ways of righteous living.” Jesus required his followers to react positively and aggressively to every life situation. The turning of the other cheek, or whatever act that may typify, demands initiative, necessitates vigorous, active, and courageous expression of the believer’s personality.

159:5.10 (1770.2) Jesus did not advocate the practice of negative submission to the indignities of those who might purposely seek to impose upon the practitioners of nonresistance to evil, but rather that his followers should be wise and alert in the quick and positive reaction of good to evil to the end that they might effectively overcome evil with good. Forget not, the truly good is invariably more powerful than the most malignant evil.


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Agon D. Onter wrote:
Was Martin Luther King Jr. a coward? Mahatma Ghandi? How about Jesus? Cowards, all, in your opinion.


No, those persons are not cowards, you are. But you do not have to be. Peter was a coward but look how he recovered from his cowardice.


Agon D. Onter wrote:
You think very highly of yourself, Manny. You think you are wiser than these great men who understood that evil must be countered with love, not more evil; not more violence.


I think very highly of the Fragment of Father which is with me. I suggest that you do the same with your gift.

I slap you with truth and you slap back with a denial of our Father. It would have been better if you had turned the other cheek. It would have been courageous. But courage is not in you, yet. I am not your enemy, I am your brother. Would you love me if I were your enemy? Would you love me if you saw Father in me?

I slap you with a thunderous velvet hand. More to wake you up than to smite you. Wake up! Father needs us!


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MannyC wrote:
coward


You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

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183:5.3 (1977.3) About this time John Zebedee, remembering his Master’s instructions to remain always near at hand, hurried up near Jesus as he marched along between the two captains. The commander of the temple guards, seeing John come up alongside, said to his assistant: “Take this man and bind him. He is one of this fellow’s followers.” But when the Roman captain heard this and, looking around, saw John, he gave orders that the apostle should come over by him, and that no man should molest him. Then the Roman captain said to the Jewish captain: “This man is neither a traitor nor a coward. I saw him in the garden, and he did not draw a sword to resist us. He has the courage to come forward to be with his Master, and no man shall lay hands on him. The Roman law allows that any prisoner may have at least one friend to stand with him before the judgment bar, and this man shall not be prevented from standing by the side of his Master, the prisoner.” And when Judas heard this, he was so ashamed and humiliated that he dropped back behind the marchers, coming up to the palace of Annas alone.


MannyC wrote:
I slap you


You didn't slap me. You farted in my general direction, which only served to both amuse and disgust me. I can still smell the stink of your flatulence. You should really get that checked.


Last edited by Agon D. Onter on Tue Jul 12, 2016 7:35 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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nodAmanaV wrote:
(173:1.11) This cleansing of the temple discloses the Master's attitude toward commercializing the practices of religion as well as his detestation of all forms of unfairness and profiteering at the expense of the poor and the unlearned. This episode also demonstrates that Jesus did not look with approval upon the refusal to employ force to protect the majority of any given human group against the unfair and enslaving practices of unjust minorities who may be able to entrench themselves behind political, financial, or ecclesiastical power. Shrewd, wicked, and designing men are not to be permitted to organize themselves for the exploitation and oppression of those who, because of their idealism, are not disposed to resort to force for self-protection or for the furtherance of their laudable life projects.


Let's put this quote into context. Jesus didn't brandish a sword and go around killing people. He overturned some tables and freed the animals from their pens.

This quote has nothing to do with the second Amendment or with gun ownership.

This quote, however, is directly relevant:

Quote:
159:5.11 (1770.3) When Jesus instructed his apostles that they should, when one unjustly took away the coat, offer the other garment, he referred not so much to a literal second coat as to the idea of doing something positive to save the wrongdoer in the place of the olden advice to retaliate — “an eye for an eye” and so on. Jesus abhorred the idea either of retaliation or of becoming just a passive sufferer or victim of injustice. On this occasion he taught them the three ways of contending with, and resisting, evil:

159:5.12 (1770.4) 1. To return evil for evil — the positive but unrighteous method.

159:5.13 (1770.5) 2. To suffer evil without complaint and without resistance — the purely negative method.

159:5.14 (1770.6) 3. To return good for evil, to assert the will so as to become master of the situation, to overcome evil with good — the positive and righteous method.

159:5.15 (1770.7) One of the apostles once asked: “Master, what should I do if a stranger forced me to carry his pack for a mile?” Jesus answered: “Do not sit down and sigh for relief while you berate the stranger under your breath. Righteousness comes not from such passive attitudes. If you can think of nothing more effectively positive to do, you can at least carry the pack a second mile. That will of a certainty challenge the unrighteous and ungodly stranger.


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"when compared with the loyal worlds of the universe, your planet seems most confused and greatly retarded"


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Too personal. Too nasty. Too political. End of discussion.

Eventually the hope is that we learn here how to disagree amiably and without nastiness. This seems to be a difficult lesson to learn. Good practice is that before you post... ask yourself, is this as Jesus would have me express myself.

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