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This weekend we are presented the opportunity to celebrate the anniversary of the resurrection of Jesus. I hope we all find our own way to relish the amazing reality that event enables us to appreciate. I will be off line until Tuesday at the earliest. Bless you all.

Jim


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Greetings Brad,

fanofVan wrote:
It is not Rex's proposition being considered here and given comparative reflection to the text. It is not Rex who has shown an obsession with what others "are doing" or "not doing" here nor Rex that has accused others of being apple shiners and arrangers and unhelpful with pushing the apple cart....whatever that might be.


Thank you so much for that. I appreciate the support more than you know. I do feel bad that Jim George might think that I'm attacking him personally. I hope he understands that I respect him and his zeal for living the truth as he understands it.

What I'm concerned about is his so-called "vision" of the future. I don't think he's entirely wrong about it, but I have yet to understand what he means by activating the revelation in the future. My understanding is that we activate the revelation the moment we choose to live the truth. The future has hope for more and more people embracing the living truth. But the living truth cannot be institutionalized. Am I correct in my understanding that Jim George, Robert, and nod all want to institutionalize the living truth?

I also don't think the living truth can be badgered into or out of people. It's not something that can be manufactured and manipulated like apple carts. We never own truth, we simply give it life through the power of personality free will. And there's no magical threshold of living truth, it's eternal and infinite in its potential. So, what is the trigger that Jim referred to? Is he dreaming about another visitation? A second coming? A new dispensation of some kind? I'm just not getting it.

He asked us to read Papers 195 and 196 to see that he is right about his prophesies. I was just reading Section 10 of Paper 195 titled, "The Future". I thought we might take a closer look at that section and see what comes of it.

The first thing that stood out to me is that we're told that it is futile to revive primitive Christianity. What do you suppose they mean by that? Would that include cups of remembrance, chalices and crosses, priests and creeds? I'd like to know what you think primitive Christianity is so we can be sure not to revive it.

Thanks in advance,
Rexford


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Enjoy the weekend Jim and blessing to you and us all as we contemplate this Day of the Cross on this world of the cross and the demonstration of loyalty, love, faith, compassion, and courage by the Son of Man, also the Son of God, the creator of our universe.

I agree Rex that Jim presents much of what I think is true....the UB is an epochal gift at a time in our planetary history that is considered ripe and ready for transformative changes...we witness an amazing time even in this brief life we are given here. 2000 years of the ministry of the Spirit of Truth and the flood of the Father Fragments bestowed on our world has led to this time when a new and great revelation of fact and truth is given to us for epochal transformation....and personal transformation. We are called to live the gospel and share the good news....by the beacon of love and faith. Much still to discuss here.

8)

195:10.1 (2084.1) Christianity has indeed done a great service for this world, but what is now most needed is Jesus. The world needs to see Jesus living again on earth in the experience of spirit-born mortals who effectively reveal the Master to all men. It is futile to talk about a revival of primitive Christianity; you must go forward from where you find yourselves. Modern culture must become spiritually baptized with a new revelation of Jesus’ life and illuminated with a new understanding of his gospel of eternal salvation. And when Jesus becomes thus lifted up, he will draw all men to himself. Jesus’ disciples should be more than conquerors, even overflowing sources of inspiration and enhanced living to all men. Religion is only an exalted humanism until it is made divine by the discovery of the reality of the presence of God in personal experience.

195:10.2 (2084.2) The beauty and sublimity, the humanity and divinity, the simplicity and uniqueness, of Jesus’ life on earth present such a striking and appealing picture of man-saving and God-revealing that the theologians and philosophers of all time should be effectively restrained from daring to form creeds or create theological systems of spiritual bondage out of such a transcendental bestowal of God in the form of man. In Jesus the universe produced a mortal man in whom the spirit of love triumphed over the material handicaps of time and overcame the fact of physical origin.


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Thanks again Brad,

Your last quote mentions that it would be best to restrain from creating creeds and theological systems. The theological system we currently call Christianity is based on the personal religious experiences of three men, Philo, Jesus and Paul (5:4:14). Wouldn't adhering to one man's vision of the future, one man's personal religious experience, create another theological system?

Theology is the psychology of religion. Psychology has to do with the individual psyche. What goes on in one man's psyche cannot be the same that goes on in another's. (I know some minds run in similar channels, but they are still unique.) I don't think it's wise to create theological systems based upon anyone's psyche. And that's more or less what concerns me when I say the blind leading the blind. We really have to be careful with that, not to be over influenced by a cult of personality, even if that personality claims to have direct contact with God (which is more than a little intimidating).

Speaking of intimidating, primitive religion, including primitive Christianity, begins with human awe, fear and dread. Anything at all that resurrects feelings of guilt, fear, dread, etc.. cannot be good. And that's why I have a fit whenever anyone starts with the shoulds and shouldn'ts. They're guilt, fear and dread inducing, limiting spiritual liberty. They are the means by which leaders of primitive theological systems keep their membership in line.

Today, as we remember Jesus' suffering, it brings to the forefront the theological system, with its personality cults and lists of shoulds and shouldn'ts, that contributed to it. If we can stay clear of such things, if we can remember the damage they did, we might have a chance. And that is what I think the Papers are preparing us for, to minimize primitive religion and embrace revelatory religion. I know there will always be traces of the primitive in anything that goes forward, but let's leave them as mere vestiges of the past and not tools for the future.

In Friendship,
Rexford


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Greetings All!!

Upon further reflection, there are several aspects of Jim's proposition which opened this discussion I want to consider further. Let me first reiterate my agreement that each epochal revelation in every mortal planet's progression from first being declared inhabited by evolutionary, native mortals that have connected with all 7 adjutant spirits to the inevitable stage of Light and Life is a progressive aggregation of the ministry of each successive epoch and revelation. While progress still comes by evolutionary struggles and growth over many tens of thousands of mortal generations, there is a growing force of more and more celestial ministries over the ages and a growing response in the minds and lives of planetary mortals.

As Jim says, each person of every generation makes individual spirit progress that is not measured by or limited by the state of progress of the entire world but the entire world's status and progress depends completely upon the aggregate force of its population regarding civilization and spiritization. The whole is the result of its parts or as go the parts goes the whole regarding planetary progress. Celestial ministry serves, effects, and accelerates this evolution but it does not, and is not allowed to, shortcut the evolutionary process of planetary development. Urantia's history is very unique in multiple ways but always is the ministry to and administration of our world subject to the evolutionary process. We are told that with the proper time unit perspective that a million years of such progress appears to be swift and certain but that no mortal perspective based on a single generation's view can appreciate the rate of change and the progression that is so apparent to our celestial leadership.

I do have a different view of the Papers and their role in epochal transformation within this evolutionary process. First, I see the teachings more like apps than code due to the multi-faceted forms of clear instruction regarding family life, politics, economics, science, institutional/evolutionary religion, governance, organization, music, art, humor, and the future of all of these social and cultural elements and even more importantly the applications (apps) for and of mind, spirit, time, free will, source, destiny, and ascension. This information is not source code (Jim's word) but a definitive guide on how things work and are and will be for the immediate utilization of every student of this text book and how to encyclopedia of knowledge. These apps are presented in a straight forward and clear presentation that any person may apply to their own life and do so immediately without priest, ceremony, fanfare, pronouncement, or other form of declaration to or anointing by any other mortal.

This is why I think that dissemination of this revelation of knowledge and guidance is the most important task for those who discover it, activate in daily life, and study it together. Who can teach this knowledge without that knowledge in hand? And why do so? It speaks for itself and speaks differently to each reader and upon each reading for the same reader. It was not given to the few for the many but to all humanity....the few are to provide it to the many....intact and in total to determine for themselves its worth and value and the personalization of its many applications to daily living. No priests needed!!!! Now, the time frame for this volume to be as available as The Cat in the Hat may be a couple of centuries or even longer and during all that time the readership, the quickly growing readership, will self determine how to personally support that distribution of text, teachings, and sharings of its contents. This will take many generations. The celestial leadership which wrote and delivered the Papers, the organizations which work together to deliver them to the world, and every reader inspired to share it in their own way will get this book everywhere to everyone....eventually.

The notion that the Papers signal some immediate divine deliverance is a primitive and short sighted form of impatience. It will have a profound impact...but not a sudden one just as all epochal transformations and revelations prior to this one. Evolution. The world is in good hands. We are to transform our minds and build our souls for the eternal adventures ahead and as we do so, personally and uniquely and experientially, we do change our world while here in important ways while we transcend our material natures and feed the Supreme. Some may teach, others may preach, some will join this or that, others will join nothing but the brotherhood of believers and faith sons in personal ministry and service to others in love. There is no single or superior choice for anyone who is spirit led and love motivated. To be about the Father's business means to get close to God and serve his many children as we ascend to Paradise.

Or so I understand.

8)


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I Simply wish to thank you Brothers
Rex an Bradly ...

For your sharing your personal insights and wise
words of wisdom ,
ive learnd much from you n others
here , an i thank you for that .

Im on thee same page as you , Kindred spirits eh

Brother Rex said;
'' Today, as we remember Jesus' suffering, it brings to the forefront the theological system, with its personality cults and lists of shoulds and shouldn'ts, that contributed to it. If we can stay clear of such things, if we can remember the damage they did, we might have a chance. And that is what I think the Papers are preparing us for, to minimize primitive religion and embrace revelatory religion. I know there will always be traces of the primitive in anything that goes forward, but let's leave them as mere vestiges of the past and not tools for the future. ''

AMEN
So very true ...

Bro fanofVan sez ...
''We are called to live the gospel and share the good news....by the beacon of love and faith.
AMEN

Its that simple ... n complex ...

To, for me its seems sorta ironic n bittersweet to wish
anyone a so called Happy Easter , Considering the tourture
pain n suffering and the Crucifixtion an death on the cross ,
of Jesus , Albeit he rose again , Resurrection ...

He is still alive n well n the SOT Is the gift that keeps on giving ,

Please forgive my lack of expressing myself , as im not a writer
nor wordsmith , ... like you guys

Hope yah understand what im trying to say ,,

The movie , The Passion of the Christ ,
Although i saw it years ago when it came out ,
Im watching it now on TV And to be honest it brings tears to my
eyes ,
Even tho i know that theres so much. very much to what
Is and will be , I simply wish more people would focus
on the life OF an teachings of Jesus instead of his Death ,

And thee so called error of beliefs that he Died for Our Sins ,

Thank you ALL For keeping the light of truth on .

Any thoughts , comments on
the movie The Passion of the Christ ?

Peace


Last edited by coop on Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:32 pm +0000, edited 4 times in total.

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2. The Crucifixion

187:2.1 (2006.5) The soldiers first bound the Master’s arms with cords to the crossbeam, and then they nailed his hands to the wood. When they had hoisted this crossbeam up on the post, and after they had nailed it securely to the upright timber of the cross, they bound and nailed his feet to the wood, using one long nail to penetrate both feet. The upright timber had a large peg, inserted at the proper height, which served as a sort of saddle for supporting the body weight. The cross was not high, the Master’s feet being only about three feet from the ground. He was therefore able to hear all that was said of him in derision and could plainly see the expression on the faces of all those who so thoughtlessly mocked him. And also could those present easily hear all that Jesus said during these hours of lingering torture and slow death.

187:2.2 (2007.1) It was the custom to remove all clothes from those who were to be crucified, but since the Jews greatly objected to the public exposure of the naked human form, the Romans always provided a suitable loin cloth for all persons crucified at Jerusalem. Accordingly, after Jesus’ clothes had been removed, he was thus garbed before he was put upon the cross.

187:2.3 (2007.2) Crucifixion was resorted to in order to provide a cruel and lingering punishment, the victim sometimes not dying for several days. There was considerable sentiment against crucifixion in Jerusalem, and there existed a society of Jewish women who always sent a representative to crucifixions for the purpose of offering drugged wine to the victim in order to lessen his suffering. But when Jesus tasted this narcotized wine, as thirsty as he was, he refused to drink it. The Master chose to retain his human consciousness until the very end. He desired to meet death, even in this cruel and inhuman form, and conquer it by voluntary submission to the full human experience.

187:2.4 (2007.3) Before Jesus was put on his cross, the two brigands had already been placed on their crosses, all the while cursing and spitting upon their executioners. Jesus’ only words, as they nailed him to the crossbeam, were, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” He could not have so mercifully and lovingly interceded for his executioners if such thoughts of affectionate devotion had not been the mainspring of all his life of unselfish service. The ideas, motives, and longings of a lifetime are openly revealed in a crisis.

187:2.5 (2007.4) After the Master was hoisted on the cross, the captain nailed the title up above his head, and it read in three languages, “Jesus of Nazareth — the King of the Jews.” The Jews were infuriated by this believed insult. But Pilate was chafed by their disrespectful manner; he felt he had been intimidated and humiliated, and he took this method of obtaining petty revenge. He could have written “Jesus, a rebel.” But he well knew how these Jerusalem Jews detested the very name of Nazareth, and he was determined thus to humiliate them. He knew that they would also be cut to the very quick by seeing this executed Galilean called “The King of the Jews.”

187:2.6 (2007.5) Many of the Jewish leaders, when they learned how Pilate had sought to deride them by placing this inscription on the cross of Jesus, hastened out to Golgotha, but they dared not attempt to remove it since the Roman soldiers were standing on guard. Not being able to remove the title, these leaders mingled with the crowd and did their utmost to incite derision and ridicule, lest any give serious regard to the inscription.

187:2.7 (2007.6) The Apostle John, with Mary the mother of Jesus, Ruth, and Jude, arrived on the scene just after Jesus had been hoisted to his position on the cross, and just as the captain was nailing the title above the Master’s head. John was the only one of the eleven apostles to witness the crucifixion, and even he was not present all of the time since he ran into Jerusalem to bring back his mother and her friends soon after he had brought Jesus’ mother to the scene.

187:2.8 (2007.7) As Jesus saw his mother, with John and his brother and sister, he smiled but said nothing. Meanwhile the four soldiers assigned to the Master’s crucifixion, as was the custom, had divided his clothes among them, one taking the sandals, one the turban, one the girdle, and the fourth the cloak. This left the tunic, or seamless vestment reaching down to near the knees, to be cut up into four pieces, but when the soldiers saw what an unusual garment it was, they decided to cast lots for it. Jesus looked down on them while they divided his garments, and the thoughtless crowd jeered at him.

187:2.9 (2008.1) It was well that the Roman soldiers took possession of the Master’s clothing. Otherwise, if his followers had gained possession of these garments, they would have been tempted to resort to superstitious relic worship. The Master desired that his followers should have nothing material to associate with his life on earth. He wanted to leave mankind only the memory of a human life dedicated to the high spiritual ideal of being consecrated to doing the Father’s will.


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JESUS' Resurrection-April 9th, AD 30 revealed in Urantia Book

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loiAeAjY67s


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Our Brother fanofVan 8)

Hugs , :wink:

Wise words from a Sage , Faith son ...

''The notion that the Papers signal some immediate divine deliverance is a primitive and short sighted form of impatience. It will have a profound impact...but not a sudden one just as all epochal transformations and revelations prior to this one. Evolution. The world is in good hands. We are to transform our minds and build our souls for the eternal adventures ahead and as we do so, personally and uniquely and experientially, we do change our world while here in important ways while we transcend our material natures and feed the Supreme. Some may teach, others may preach, some will join this or that, others will join nothing but the brotherhood of believers and faith sons in personal ministry and service to others in love. There is no single or superior choice for anyone who is spirit led and love motivated. To be about the Father's business means to get close to God and serve his many children as we ascend to Paradise.''

AMEN Brother AMEN


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'' He wanted to leave mankind only the memory of a human life dedicated to the high spiritual ideal of being consecrated to doing the Father’s will.''


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(188:5.2) The cross forever shows that the attitude of Jesus toward sinners was neither condemnation nor condonation, but rather eternal and loving salvation. Jesus is truly a savior in the sense that his life and death do win men over to goodness and righteous survival. Jesus loves men so much that his love awakens the response of love in the human heart. Love is truly contagious and eternally creative. Jesus' death on the cross exemplifies a love which is sufficiently strong and divine to forgive sin and swallow up all evil-doing. Jesus disclosed to this world a higher quality of righteousness than justice—mere technical right and wrong. Divine love does not merely forgive wrongs; it absorbs and actually destroys them. The forgiveness of love utterly transcends the forgiveness of mercy. Mercy sets the guilt of evil-doing to one side; but love destroys forever the sin and all weakness resulting therefrom. Jesus brought a new method of living to Urantia. He taught us not to resist evil but to find through him a goodness which effectually destroys evil. The forgiveness of Jesus is not condonation; it is salvation from condemnation. Salvation does not slight wrongs; it makes them right. True love does not compromise nor condone hate; it destroys it. The love of Jesus is never satisfied with mere forgiveness. The Master's love implies rehabilitation, eternal survival. It is altogether proper to speak of salvation as redemption if you mean this eternal rehabilitation.


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fanofVan wrote:
I do have a different view of the Papers and their role in epochal transformation within this evolutionary process. First, I see the teachings more like apps than code due to the multi-faceted forms of clear instruction regarding family life, politics, economics, science, institutional/evolutionary religion, governance, organization, music, art, humor, and the future of all of these social and cultural elements and even more importantly the applications (apps) for and of mind, spirit, time, free will, source, destiny, and ascension. This information is not source code (Jim's word) but a definitive guide on how things work and are and will be for the immediate utilization of every student of this text book and how to encyclopedia of knowledge. These apps are presented in a straight forward and clear presentation that any person may apply to their own life and do so immediately without priest, ceremony, fanfare, pronouncement, or other form of declaration to or anointing by any other mortal.


The Urantia Book is very far from "source code". Neither is it an application used to carry forward specific functions. The reason is that "source code" or any computer language is instructive in that specific circuits are engaged based on the logic that is evaluated. Although the logic may be the same, and the basic declarations may be the same in principle, there is in actuality very little commanding the human in the text. "Be patient!" is the only exception I can remember. The Urantia Book does not tell people what to do like command code.

The closest the Urantia Book comes to "source code" is to declare what ought to be. And it teaches about Jesus, showing examples of the exhortative quality of his instruction. Humans must infer upon the logic and contemplate their own experience before arriving at the subjective simulation in their imaginations for any command that would be deemed as ought or as in accordance with the Father's will.

_________________
to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


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Sorry for the poor analogy...it was offered to contrast apps with code....I know all too little about computers and programs, etc. to have attempted the comparison.

Don't forget..."fear not" and "love one another" and "love God" and quite a few more.....but you are right that free will prevails always.

It is not a commandment book to be sure....but it is a map and guide of places, personalities, relationships, facts and methods for our ascension which lead to truths for discovery along that journey to Paradise....how to be, and become, how to transcend the material nature, and those results which come thereby.

coop - thanks for all the light you bring here.

Yesterday was the day of the cross....today is the day of despair for those who walked with our Lord. :(

Tomorrow love triumphs. :biggrin:


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Paper 52 sheds much light on the topic at hand, especially regarding the evolutionary process of the mortal epochs, the role of the successive epochal revelations (whether successful or less than ideal in outcome, or not), and our world's unique experience through the epochs. I think the Paper confirms Jim's core premise that each epochal revelation and evolutionary progression over time are designed to bring about the brotherhood of humanity by the multi-faceted and integrated ministries of both the celestial agents of change and the spirits of Father, Mother, and Son (TAs, Holy Spirit, Spirit of Truth).

I agree with Rexford that this "activation" of the Spirit is a soul by soul process of individual "response to spirit", which does deliver a certain critical mass along the evolutionary spectrum or continuum whereby more and more mortals of each generation recognize the Spirit and respond to the Spirit, which civilizes and socializes humanity - in total - based on the experiential aggregation and integration of the collective experience and wisdom of the world's citizenry. On Urantia, this spectrum or continuum has not been a straight line upward in its curve but there has been an acceleration of that curve - percentage or proportionate - of the effective results of planetary administration, leadership, and spirit ministries over time, especially since the Spirit of Truth came to Urantia.

Paper 52 clearly describes what must happen in each mortal/planetary epoch to deliver the next in this evolutionary transformation - which results ONLY by the increasing proportionate spiritization success of prior mortal epochs. This planetary ministry is a sequential reality described as evolutionary. But critical mass includes an increasing mass and velocity of change wherein acceleration is the norm as more and more mortals respond to the gravity circuits of mind, spirit, and personality and truly experience the transfer of the seat of identity and by such spiritualization, bring forth the fruit of the spirit. The Spirit of Truth was the last such epochal bestowal ministry which also brought forth the TAs to most of humanity instead of the few.

I contend that the Papers teach and clearly state that the whole is not transformed by the few in any one generation but, rather, by the many and the more and more over evolutionary time frames and generations, which may shorten such time frames due to the greater and greater effects by the more and more - acceleration effect of increasing mass and momentum in the gravity circuits. There is no shortcut to evolution. Having said that, I cannot claim to know or understand the power of the collective Spirit ministries to transform the few into the more and more either within one or a few generations. The few will not transform the many until the few ARE the many....or so I think. It is my opinion, that such a level of critical mass is what is meant by "quivering on the brink" - not some revolutionary generation transformation but a measureable shift in mass and momentum. This is an opinion based on my understanding of the Papers which some differ in opinion and expectation. All I know is the Papers clearly say that evolution is the process of planetary transformation through the Mortal Epochs.

8)

52:6.2 (597.3) Even on normal evolutionary worlds the realization of the world-wide brotherhood of man is not an easy accomplishment. On a confused and disordered planet like Urantia such an achievement requires a much longer time and necessitates far greater effort. Unaided social evolution can hardly achieve such happy results on a spiritually isolated sphere. Religious revelation is essential to the realization of brotherhood on Urantia......

52:6.7 (598.2) The quickest way to realize the brotherhood of man on Urantia is to effect the spiritual transformation of present-day humanity. The only technique for accelerating the natural trend of social evolution is that of applying spiritual pressure from above, thus augmenting moral insight while enhancing the soul capacity of every mortal to understand and love every other mortal. Mutual understanding and fraternal love are transcendent civilizers and mighty factors in the world-wide realization of the brotherhood of man.


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Greetings Brad,

I understand your observations and I think you're mostly right about it. But I'm wondering what you think about the fact that retroregression is built into the evolution of civilization whenever progress exceeds wisdom (see quote below) .

The slowness of evolution, of human cultural progress, testifies to the effectiveness of that brake — material inertia — which so efficiently operates to retard dangerous velocities of progress. Thus does time itself cushion and distribute the otherwise lethal results of premature escape from the next-encompassing barriers to human action. For when culture advances overfast, when material achievement outruns the evolution of worship-wisdom, then does civilization contain within itself the seeds of retrogression; and unless buttressed by the swift augmentation of experiential wisdom, such human societies will recede from high but premature levels of attainment, and the “dark ages” of the interregnum of wisdom will bear witness to the inexorable restoration of the imbalance between self-liberty and self-control. 118.8:6  

Also, you mentioned that the Papers state that the whole is not transformed by the few in any one generation. I'm not disagreeing with that entirely, but what do you make of the many spiritual leaders, such as Onager, who did transform their generation and civilization? Isn't it usually the teachings of one great personality that inaugurates a new epoch (see 92:5:5 below)? And aren't we told a single musician could have the power to change the course of the entire civilized world (see 44:1:15 below)?

Most great religious epochs have been inaugurated by the life and teachings of some outstanding personality; leadership has originated a majority of the worth-while moral movements of history. 92:5:5

But be not discouraged; some day a real musician may appear on Urantia, and whole peoples will be enthralled by the magnificent strains of his melodies. One such human being could forever change the course of a whole nation, even the entire civilized world. 44:1:15


And what do you make of the quote below concerning the need for leadership, leadership which makes up only 1% of the population?

Leadership is vital to progress. Wisdom, insight, and foresight are indispensable to the endurance of nations. Civilization is never really jeopardized until able leadership begins to vanish. And the quantity of such wise leadership has never exceeded one per cent of the population. 81:6.42

Thanks in advance,
Rexford


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