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 Post subject: Re: The Urantia Religion
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fanofVan wrote:
Again....who is waiting on anything for anything? Who is this "we" that does not seem to include you that is waiting for what?

:?: 8)

I'm sorry but here I go again

142:6.6. "Can it be that you are a teacher in Israel and yet ignorant of all this?

Brad, your not ignoring something are you?


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I anticipate an opinion as to what is blinding my eye and what it is I am so blinded to....in this, my life of service and works for the dissemination of the Papers these past decades. Go for it...but for now, I must get on to the day. Peace to all who serve.

8)


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I don't know why you need an opinion as to what blinds from someone else. You of all people know the answer to that question Brad.

All that is being said here is that if we take another look from a different point of perspective we should see that in order for the river to flow, we need a river bed. That's what we don't have. Instead it seems, even without the river bed, some want to make the river that doesn't exist yet flow up hill back to it's source.

Peace Brad.


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Nod,

nodAmanaV wrote:
Why don't we now initiate conversation of what we should do, as a community or congregation as well as personally to begin the process of the inevitable? Robert is right. What are we waiting for?


No, my friend. The question is, "What are YOU waiting for?" You speak of shoulds and shouldn'ts, moralizing demands made on everyone else, and this is exactly what cult leaders do. Such sermonizing is exactly what we are trying to avoid. You have no right to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't do. The morals and standards you chose to live by are your own. The fact that you desire to have the rest of the world live by them too, is extraordinarily self-centered. If this is something YOU want to do, then do it. If what you do is gracious and fragrant, it will attract others. You cannot force people to do what YOU want them to do, especially if it is not attractive. And pontificating over what people should and shouldn't do is not attractive.

There is absolutely no inevitability here except evolution. You, Robert, and others of your ilk, have completely missed the fact that cults cannot be manufactured. Read the text. If the text is God's will as Robert claims, then what about this:

But a religious cult cannot be manufactured; it must grow. 87:7.3

There's that word again, the word "must", yet this "must" word is totally ignored. Instead of paying attention to "must grow" you persistently try to go against the Revelation and manufacture a cult. Why is that? I'll tell you straight out that this is why the idea of concocting a cult has not happened. It cannot happen because it is not real, it is not true. Cults grow, and immature, impatient people cannot make them grow any faster by attempting to engineer evolution.

What we are told is that we must develop a symbolism. Somewhere along the line, the ecclesiastical crowd has determined that the word "symbolism" is synonymous with "ritual" and "religious institution". Balderdash! Symbols can be anything: words, slogans, flags, myths, legends, parables, colors, flowers, wedding bands, animals, rainbows, hearts, unicorns, a whole host of things. Symbolism is merely a way to represent an idea or ideal. The best symbolism for the Revelation is not a membership card and the Holy Grail. We already have the symbol of the three concentric circles. It was good enough for Melchizedek, so it's good enough for me.

And talk of creeds. It was said yesterday on the radio show that even Melchizedek had a creed. Well what was his creed for the Salem missionaries? It was: 1.) Have faith in one God; 2.) God requires faith alone; 3.) Obey the commandments and share the truth.

As far as I can tell, you don't need an institution for something that simple. It boils down to the Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of man. Nothing fancy. No membership required. No drinking of the nectar of the gods as an initiation, no rules established by grand poobahs, no special instructions necessary. Come one and all, come as you are, is what Jesus said.

It's not about beliefs, it's about faith. Beliefs are for groups, faith is for individuals. The Urantia Papers are meant for the individual to read and explore personal faith. One then socializes that faith as fruits of the spirit. Nowhere in the book is there a set of beliefs that we are told to adopt as a group. We are told to socialize our personalities. There is nothing mentioned anywhere about socializing the book. A book cannot be socialized, only personalities can socialize. Attempts to socialize the book will fail.

So, if you want to mastermind an ecclesiastical community, start with your own personality. Socialize it and see if your grace and fragrant fruits can attract anyone to share their personality with you, then let the love grow. Don't control the process, allow the Spirit of Truth to do it. Trust me, if Michael wants a new church, he will make it happen. The fact that it hasn't happened tells me that we either don't have gracious and fragrant personalities, or it's not meant to be.

Robert's attacks on dissenters are not gracious or fragrant. I don't need to say anything more on that. Nod, if you're attracted to Robert, please proceed. Get a room. But please stop telling me, and the rest of us what we should or shouldn't do.

Totally tired of this topic,
Rexford


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Greetings Rexford,

You wrote:
You cannot force people to do what YOU want them to do, especially if it is not attractive. And pontificating over what people should and shouldn't do is not attractive.
Look in the mirror, my friend.

You wrote:
But a religious cult cannot be manufactured; it must grow. 87:7.3
Try water.

You wrote:
But please stop telling me, and the rest of us what we should or shouldn't do.
Look in the Fruedian mirror, my brother.

You wrote:
Totally tired of this topic
You shouldn't be, I'm not:

(48:6.37) Self-importance, not work-importance, exhausts immature creatures


In Brotherhood,
noden


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Mr. Noden,

You seem to think that I'm trying to force people to do something. I'm not telling people to build anything. I'm not telling people to do anything. I'm not telling people what to think, nor am I telling people how to act. I'm not offering any shoulds or shouldn'ts at all. However, you did that. Robert did that.

nodAmanaV wrote:
You shouldn't be, I'm not


There you go again! Telling me what I should and shouldn't be doing, based upon your moral structure.

I'll say it again: A religious cult MUST grow. If you'd like to water it, please get the biggest hose you can find and do so. Just make sure it's living water. And, don't tell me I should try it.

Incidentally, do you know the characteristics of a cult leader? Here they are:

Cult leaders elevate themselves to messianic levels.
Cult leaders dictate how members SHOULD think, act, and feel.
Cult leaders induce feelings of shame in order to control members.
Cult leaders do not tolerate even minor disagreements with their doctrines and beliefs.
Cult leaders have a polarizing us-versus-them mentality.

Do any of them seem familiar to you?

Rexford the Recalcitrant.


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Greetings Rexford,

Quote:
Rexford the Recalcitrant.
Obstinately defiant of authority or restraint are you?

Boy that sounds familiar. :mrgreen:

Brother, you sure that's the right path?


In Friendship,
noden.my.neighborhood


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Mr. Noden.my.neighborhood,

You ask:
nodAmanaV wrote:
Brother, you sure that's the right path?


If you and Robert are the authority, you betcha! Darn sure!

Now, you two get a room and be happy. I wish you both the very, very best.

In Friendship,
Rexford


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Rexford wrote:
I wish you both the very, very best.
Thank you Rexford.

In Friendship,
nodAmanaV


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Good luck Brother Nod in being one of the Sheep,

Brother Robert Started this Years Ago ,

The Urantia Book International Ministry (UBIM) is a religious organization dedicated to the spiritual growth and support of the divine family of all individuals, the worldwide brotherhood and sisterhood of the children of the Universal Father. We follow the teachings of the Urantia Book, the fifth epochal revelation to humanity, and are the beginnings of a new and unique religion....

http://www.ubim.org/about-ubim/

Our ministers include Robert Sarmast, Paula Thompson, Jim George and Christilyn Larson.


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Thank you coop for sharing that link.

Earlier, I posted a quote from text and was interested to hear from you, Brad, Rexford and anyone really. I have to be honest, I wasn't surprised that it was passed over.

I think it's very central to what this thread is all about. I wonder if anyone will take the time now to comment on it, as it pertains to this topic that is. To me it's very clear what the meaning is, however I've been wrong before. To me the text is saying that "I'm in authority and I'm telling you what to do, O' children of light."

(176:3.7) Truth is living; the Spirit of Truth is ever leading the children of light into new realms of spiritual reality and divine service. You are not given truth to crystallize into settled, safe, and honored forms. Your revelation of truth must be so enhanced by passing through your personal experience that new beauty and actual spiritual gains will be disclosed to all who behold your spiritual fruits and in consequence thereof are led to glorify the Father who is in heaven. Only those faithful servants who thus grow in the knowledge of the truth, and who thereby develop the capacity for divine appreciation of spiritual realities, can ever hope to "enter fully into the joy of their Lord." What a sorry sight for successive generations of the professed followers of Jesus to say, regarding their stewardship of divine truth: "Here, Master, is the truth you committed to us a hundred or a thousand years ago. We have lost nothing; we have faithfully preserved all you gave us; we have allowed no changes to be made in that which you taught us; here is the truth you gave us." But such a plea concerning spiritual indolence will not justify the barren steward of truth in the presence of the Master. In accordance with the truth committed to your hands will the Master of truth require a reckoning.

Please share your ideas of what this means won't you?

Your Friend and Brother,
nodAmanaV


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My Brother Its Self explanatory :wink:

(176:3.7) {Truth is living;} the Spirit of Truth is ever leading the children of light into new realms of spiritual reality and divine service. {You are not given truth to crystallize into settled, safe, and honored forms.}

Its a Warning of what NOT To Do . :!:

Danger danger Will Robertson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWwOJlOI1nU


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But coop if something gets put in our hands for us to NOT do anything with, why would there be a reckoning for NOT doing something with it?

(140:5.9) How could one ever hunger for something negative—something "not to do"?


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My Brother 8)

The UB Papers Dont tell '' us to NOT do anything with it.''

Truth is Living and Alive .

Our Brother rex has explain all this so much better
than i could ever do ,

Sincerly take the time to re read what he has said ,
not what you think or may misunderstand what he said ,
and what the papers DO Say Not what you think or misinterptret
or misunderstand them to say .

{You are not given truth to crystallize into settled, safe, and honored forms.}

Its a Warning of what NOT To Do

Seriously ,

Tho you must follow your own path n see where it leads eh .


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My Brother Coop,

Remember the Tricky Dick fiasco I mentioned earlier?

That resulted in the Great Republican Elephant in the room didn't it. Nixon begot Carter who begot Reagan. Why? Because nobody was going to tell anybody who to vote for.

Now there's another Elephant in the room. The UB Religion is blasphemy Elephant.

I wonder what it's going to beget, that's all.


************


{You are not given truth to crystallize into settled, safe, and honored forms.} 

Aren't you crystallizing truth by treating it like an object. To not do anything with?

You can understand the way I'm talking right? Besides just reading it.


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