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 Post subject: The Urantia Religion
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I thought some here would be interested in this new video. Blessings,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=outQ8QM ... e=youtu.be


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 Post subject: Re: The Urantia Religion
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Hi Robert,

Your fervor is commendable. Thank you for your ministry.

For now, I simply leave you with this:

(132:7.6) Then exclaimed Ganid: "Teacher, let's you and I make a new religion, one good enough for India and big enough for Rome, and maybe we can trade it to the Jews for Yahweh." And Jesus replied: "Ganid, religions are not made. The religions of men grow up over long periods of time, while the revelations of God flash upon earth in the lives of the men who reveal God to their fellows." But they did not comprehend the meaning of these prophetic words.

(132:7.9) What a scene for the celestial intelligences to behold, this spectacle of the Indian lad proposing to the Creator of a universe that they make a new religion! And though the young man did not know it, they were making a new and everlasting religion right then and there—this new way of salvation, the revelation of God to man through, and in, Jesus. That which the lad wanted most to do he was unconsciously actually doing. And it was, and is, ever thus. That which the enlightened and reflective human imagination of spiritual teaching and leading wholeheartedly and unselfishly wants to do and be, becomes measurably creative in accordance with the degree of mortal dedication to the divine doing of the Father's will. When man goes in partnership with God, great things may, and do, happen.

Perhaps the religious symbolism you speak of Robert and we need is first bound up in the need for individual spiritual accomplishment, individual realization. Making real creatively "the divine doing of the Father's will".

When that happens, is only a matter of time.

Godspeed


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 Post subject: Re: The Urantia Religion
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In minute 23:30 - 24:29, you mention "Not every book can become a religion, but the Urantia Book has enough to be a new religion". Why? What separates this work among all spiritual writings?

What were you saying at 32:00 "Our father has commanded us to ... "??

_________________
to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


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 Post subject: Re: The Urantia Religion
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Greetings Robert....and welcome back!!

I was wondering as to your opinion regarding the teaching in the UB that the cocoon for the future metamorphic presentation or eventuation of the Jesusonian Gospel is Christianity. I believe your subtitle to be most accurate: "The Religion of Personal Spiritual Experience" as true to the contents in the text.

I am perplexed by the functions of group/institutional religion vs. the reality that true religion is the religion of personal spiritual experience. We are taught the importance of evolutionary religion related to social progress and that to planetary progress....until such time, I think, that the population is equally aware of universe reality...or the cosmology presented in the UB....whereby we all know about the relationship of the each to the all and the all to the each.

It seems to me that the UB provides the common framework whereby the individual religionist can adjust our perspective of origin and destiny and familial relationships which result to enhance our "Religion of Personal Spiritual Experience". We are taught that the planet progresses through stages of epochal transition and evolution until that time when we are all on the same page related to cosmology....which the UB is a definitive instrument which serves this evolutionary process.

Since the printing press, religion appears to have evolved into what some might consider devolution....meaning the power and effect of centralized and authoritarian religion is waning in favor of a more highly personalized experience. Over those few centuries since, I think the Spirit of Truth has shown compelling influence, due in part to literacy, science, and the many, many branches of Protestantism that have been forming in an acceleration away from institutional to personal religious authority.

So, evolutionary religion will remain diverse to the point or relative to the amount of religionists who agree on a cosmology and a perspective or philosophy of living which recognizes the universe realities presented in the UB.

Thanks for your efforts to disseminate the Papers and their teachings. Happy to hear your reflections on my perplexions!

Brad 8)


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 Post subject: Re: The Urantia Religion
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nodAmanaV: Thanks. Individual religion or personal religion is distinguished apart from socialized religion in the UB. They're both needed; not just one or the other. The socialized religion gives "form" or "skeletal structure" or "symbolism" to what is otherwise an inner individual experience - true religion. We already have the latter, but not the former, which is why there's no movement in our "movement." We're unbalanced, simply because we're not following directions.

Kelly: I didn't say "Not every book can become a religion, but the Urantia Book has enough to be a new religion." Not sure where you got that. I was saying there that I can see why the revelators didn't just come out and say you should make a new religion with the UB, since it would have been too early and would have caused havoc.

As far as the "Our father has commanded us to ... " question - the quotes I posted throughout the video show clearly instructions to the effect that this is something we must do, and do it correctly. This book is a revelation, and its instructions and encouragements perfectly reflect the desire of the Master Son, our Planetary Prince, and therefore the will of the Universal Father. Any instructions in the revelation is the same as God's will, and that's how I treat it.

Blessings,
Robert


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 Post subject: Re: The Urantia Religion
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Greetings Robert,

You wrote:
Rsarmast wrote:
Any instructions in the revelation is the same as God's will, and that's how I treat it.


What specific instructions are you referring to again? Also, are you saying that the words of the Revelation are God's will for all of us, or just for you?

I think there is some danger in considering the written word to be God's will. That is equivalent to making the words a fetish. God's will is living, the words of a book are not living. The meanings and values revealed in the text have to come to life within the soul of each reader, and each reader will interpret those meanings differently according to the Adjuster's guidance.

So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that making a religion out of the words of a book is fraught with danger. It's just one tiny step to declaring that the Urantia Papers are the only source of truth on earth, the mistake that all religions make. I must be honest in that I find the term "Urantia Religion" offensive. I think you must mean Urantia religions. They're all worthwhile in their own way.

In Friendship,
Rexford


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 Post subject: Re: The Urantia Religion
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Hi FanofVan:

Hope you're well. It took me several years to be able to understand that the word "religion" is used in two distinctly different ways in the UB, and to be able to fully comprehend the difference. The video is my attempt to teach what I've learned in that time, and should be sufficient.

What's important to understand is that we cannot only look at our own needs. I don't need form, but "most mortals" do. Without symbolism, or form, or skeletal structure, the personal religion of experience is never going to appeal to the masses of 606, in their present state.

I think it's high time that instead of saying that the world isn't ready for the book, or that it's too hard for people, or that it's for some future generation - it's time we look at ourselves and realize that it's entirely our problem, our shortcoming, and our failure, not the world. This revelation isn't fine china sent from heaven so we can put it in the cupboard and stare at it and say how pretty it is. It was sent so we can serve food from it to those in need.

This isn't for everyone. Not for those who have only a passive interest. It has to be active, and must extend beyond merely the accumulation of knowledge to a place where there's desire to use that knowledge for effective results in the world - true wisdom.

At this point I'm well beyond the argumentative stage. I think those who are ready get it, and want it. The first step is to initiate ourselves into this new religion and finally give it some form, instead of offering the masses some ghost they can't see or touch and expect results. It's time.

Blessings,
Robert

fanofVan wrote:
Greetings Robert....and welcome back!!

I was wondering as to your opinion regarding the teaching in the UB that the cocoon for the future metamorphic presentation or eventuation of the Jesusonian Gospel is Christianity. I believe your subtitle to be most accurate: "The Religion of Personal Spiritual Experience" as true to the contents in the text.

I am perplexed by the functions of group/institutional religion vs. the reality that true religion is the religion of personal spiritual experience. We are taught the importance of evolutionary religion related to social progress and that to planetary progress....until such time, I think, that the population is equally aware of universe reality...or the cosmology presented in the UB....whereby we all know about the relationship of the each to the all and the all to the each.

It seems to me that the UB provides the common framework whereby the individual religionist can adjust our perspective of origin and destiny and familial relationships which result to enhance our "Religion of Personal Spiritual Experience". We are taught that the planet progresses through stages of epochal transition and evolution until that time when we are all on the same page related to cosmology....which the UB is a definitive instrument which serves this evolutionary process.

Since the printing press, religion appears to have evolved into what some might consider devolution....meaning the power and effect of centralized and authoritarian religion is waning in favor of a more highly personalized experience. Over those few centuries since, I think the Spirit of Truth has shown compelling influence, due in part to literacy, science, and the many, many branches of Protestantism that have been forming in an acceleration away from institutional to personal religious authority.

So, evolutionary religion will remain diverse to the point or relative to the amount of religionists who agree on a cosmology and a perspective or philosophy of living which recognizes the universe realities presented in the UB.

Thanks for your efforts to disseminate the Papers and their teachings. Happy to hear your reflections on my perplexions!

Brad 8)


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Brother Rsarmast 8)

Love You Brother

Yet i disagree

I love your Passion ,

but maybe take a Cold shower tho


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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNR4hKbSH7I


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https://www.facebook.com/urantiareligion/


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IMO

No so called church , religion or org is needed .

NO leaders n no Dogmas or rules or sacred book
or group is ever needed ,

ALL Thats needed is to listen to thee still small voice within ,

The Spark ...


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Brother Rsarmast 8)

I Have much respect n love for you ,

Yet your striving to make the UB A Religion ,

IS IMO Simply trying to make it some type of new Cult .

Its Unnecessary n fruitless ...

And albeit your motives n intentions are good

NO New UB Religion or new Cult is necessary.


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Robert says above: "I think it's high time that instead of saying that the world isn't ready for the book, or that it's too hard for people, or that it's for some future generation - it's time we look at ourselves and realize that it's entirely our problem, our shortcoming, and our failure, not the world. This revelation isn't fine china sent from heaven so we can put it in the cupboard and stare at it and say how pretty it is. It was sent so we can serve food from it to those in need."



Hello Robert - As one who has been in the trenches of dissemination myself for decades, I must confess how rare it has been in my own experience to have heard any serious student of the Papers to say or promote these things. The Most Highs obviously believe the world is ready to receive this gift, and it's certainly not too hard for anyone with an 8th grade reading and literacy ability....but we are told the seeds planted by every mortal planetary epoch does take time for it to radiate from its sprouting unto its fruition.

I serve dissemination today as do many, many others and can gleefully report how rapidly the fruit is appearing upon the vine by the work of thousands over the years. The internet technologies are now providing the vehicle for an exponential increase in readership leveraging all the translation and organizational efforts made to serve this ministry. As I today serve and have for decades served in the various organizations, I do disagree with my brother/friend coop that we do not need "organizations". For it is by the teamwork, infrastructure, systems, and the coordinated/integrated skills, experience, passion, time, and money streaming into, through, by, and from such organizations that the UB has been disseminated.

According to the anecdotal evidence available, it appears the UB has found an eager population of truth seekers by so many different forms of "availability"....none of which were accidental but each by design and effort of readers/students who felt compelled to share this gift with the others....and with the world. Many millions of dollars have been spent in such efforts by the 3 principal disseminating organizations. Multiples of a million dollars is spent now....every single year! Organizations are certainly not the only means of dissemination as Robert's mighty efforts over the years demonstrate....and there are many like him who pursue personal initiative to noble efforts to share the gift with others (we are here and now at such a ministry of love and service called TruthBook!). Many share your zeal, commitment, and passion Robert.

There are groups organized and working together in over 40 countries today on every inhabited continent! UBIS cannot offer enough classes with enough teachers for the global student body demand today which grows greater by every semester. Global Skype study groups organized by language are all the rage. The Urantia Association International is currently engaged in on-line leadership training for dozens of local and national servant leaders in Spanish while the translators are busy preparing for an extension of leadership training in multiple languages.

What the movement needs most, for now, are servant/volunteers for dissemination to help keep up with the exploding demand; and it needs scholars and teachers; and it needs more money for more tools and infrastructure and events. Every continent is now networking readers by study groups, local and regional conferences, and technologies to simply allow the global readership to connect to one another....which is unleashing new forms of expression and appreciation and access to the Revelation. I can testify that these are the glory days...from the few to the many to the masses.

But these glory days are still but the movement's infancy....we must crawl to stand to walk to toddle and fall to run before we FLY! The Most Highs are in charge of our world...and this seed of fact and truth....not us tadpoles. We are to serve and so we do in our humble and meager and muddled ways. Still we succeed....not by our brilliance but by the most capable hands who created and presented this gift in the first place....who knew full well our frailties and faults.

So I am in full agreement with you Robert that we are not to be idle and self indulgent with this gift. I offer no argument with those who encourage religious experience and its expression in service to others and shine the light into the dark corners which call out for love, truth, beauty, and goodness. But I am learning to see more and more of what has been done and less and less of what has not yet been done. Perhaps I am learning patience for and confidence in our planetary destiny? It does take thousands of generations of mortals to move through a single planetary epoch cycle....but, we are told....the ship has sailed, we quiver on the brink, some changes sometimes come quickly, and that we now are on an ever accelerating curve of change and challenge. It is no time to be idle...even when patient....it is time to be about our Father's business!

While it cannot come quickly enough for some....the future comes as it comes, one day and one generation at a time.

8)


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Greetings,

I still don't understand how symbolism translates to organized religion. Can you have a symbol without turning it into a religion?

In Friendship,
Rexford


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FanofVan, yes, it's heard rarely if ever. But in the last few years there's been a growing consciousness of the need. The West is particularly prone to individualism, bordering on fanatical, and the UB community has been particularly hard-hit.

There seems to be a consensus that things move slowly and we have to wait eons for things to gel, but when you look at that quote in the UB regarding "what a sorry sight" it is, I'm not sure that we can get off so easily. It's clear that to the celestials at least, it's a, well, sorry sight. At this rate this "movement" is running on fumes.

Please keep in mind that Jesus, the Son of God, who certainly had no need for symbolism, submitted himself for baptism to John. No need for him, only for others. Remember also that the apostles and his followers routinely baptized new believers for years, with his permission and encouragement. Wasn't it him, Michael of Nebadon, who gave us the symbolic ceremonial with the Eucharist? Why are so many people in this so-called movement so against symbolism? I'll leave it for others to decide. I only care about the revelation and its teachings. The quotes I used in the video are kind of self-explanatory, and if people can argue against the words of the very book they call a revelation then I can't help out.

I don't intend to be on the "sorry sight" list. Hope you don't either.


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