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I have a simple question:
Is it possible to be human, not be Jesus and live sin free?

Or put another way:
Is it possible to be humanly perfect in life the same way Jesus was in his?

I say yes, absolutely.


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WOW,,,

Really , ... are you serious or ...

what ,

Please explain ... ok

PLEASE .

How is that , or can that even be possible ?

ITs NOT .


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Greetings nod,

nodAmanaV wrote:
Is it possible to be humanly perfect in life the same way Jesus was in his?


Of course it's possible. That's why Jesus came here as a man, to show us that simple men and women can progress through all seven psychic circles and fuse with our Adjusters. He showed us how. His life is an example for us to follow. Jesus incarnated as a man to become perfected. Jesus, the man, was not perfect at birth. Neither are we. We are an order of beings who become perfected. There's a big difference between perfect and perfected, but both are necessary.

The divinely perfect creature and the evolutionary perfected creature are equal in degree of divinity potential, but they differ in kind. Each must depend on the other to attain supremacy of service. The evolutionary superuniverses depend on perfect Havona to provide the final training for their ascending citizens, but so does the perfect central universe require the existence of the perfecting superuniverses to provide for the full development of its descending inhabitants. 32:3:14

These, then, are the two original manifestations: the constitutively perfect and the evolutionally perfected. The two are co-ordinate in eternity relationships, but within the limits of time they are seemingly different. A time factor means growth to that which grows; secondary finites grow; hence those that are growing must appear as incomplete in time. But these differences, which are so important this side of Paradise, are nonexistent in eternity. 105:5:9

In Friendship,
Rexford


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Thanks Rex, comfort well and good.

Doing God's will takes practice to get better at it. But if we're not being evil, not being sinful, paying attention to our inner guides (doing God's will) isn't that being as "perfect" as a human being can get for now?

I ask a lot of questions.


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coop wrote:
WOW,,,

Really , ... are you serious or ...

what ,

Please explain ... ok

PLEASE .

How is that , or can that even be possible ?

ITs NOT .


See, I knew I was going to get this reaction from somebody!

Coop my bro-man, isn't your reaction based on the old religious way of looking at things? Isn't that part of your wine coming out of your old wine skin? Didn't they convict Jesus of blasphemy for being the Son of God? If you're also a son of God, can't you be and live the life like Jesus lived his perfectly?

Of course you can!


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Brother Nod 8)

F IN NO I CANT ,

Nor has or can Anyone before or after ever will
live a perfect sinless life of doing fathers will
as he did in the flesh nor his other bestowels .

Actualy Jesus was Not an example of how
we should live but rather an inspiration of
how we need to strive to be/ become ,


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Question:
When a mortal fuses, is he or she then "being perfect" like Jesus was perfect in his time as a mortal?


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136:2.2 (1511.1) When Jesus of Nazareth went down into the Jordan to be baptized, he was a mortal of the realm who had attained the pinnacle of human evolutionary ascension in all matters related to the conquest of mind and to self-identification with the spirit. He stood in the Jordan that day a perfected mortal of the evolutionary worlds of time and space. Perfect synchrony and full communication had become established between the mortal mind of Jesus and the indwelling spirit Adjuster, the divine gift of his Father in Paradise. And just such an Adjuster indwells all normal beings living on Urantia since the ascension of Michael to the headship of his universe, except that Jesus’ Adjuster had been previously prepared for this special mission by similarly indwelling another superhuman incarnated in the likeness of mortal flesh, Machiventa Melchizedek.

136:2.3 (1511.2) Ordinarily, when a mortal of the realm attains such high levels of personality perfection, there occur those preliminary phenomena of spiritual elevation which terminate in eventual fusion of the matured soul of the mortal with its associated divine Adjuster. And such a change was apparently due to take place in the personality experience of Jesus of Nazareth on that very day when he went down into the Jordan with his two brothers to be baptized by John. This ceremony was the final act of his purely human life on Urantia, and many superhuman observers expected to witness the fusion of the Adjuster with its indwelt mind, but they were all destined to suffer disappointment. Something new and even greater occurred. As John laid his hands upon Jesus to baptize him, the indwelling Adjuster took final leave of the perfected human soul of Joshua ben Joseph. And in a few moments this divine entity returned from Divinington as a Personalized Adjuster and chief of his kind throughout the entire local universe of Nebadon. Thus did Jesus observe his own former divine spirit descending on its return to him in personalized form. And he heard this same spirit of Paradise origin now speak, saying, “This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased.” And John, with Jesus’ two brothers, also heard these words. John’s disciples, standing by the water’s edge, did not hear these words, neither did they see the apparition of the Personalized Adjuster. Only the eyes of Jesus beheld the Personalized Adjuster.

136:2.4 (1511.3) When the returned and now exalted Personalized Adjuster had thus spoken, all was silence. And while the four of them tarried in the water, Jesus, looking up to the near-by Adjuster, prayed: “My Father who reigns in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come! Your will be done on earth, even as it is in heaven.” When he had prayed, the “heavens were opened,” and the Son of Man saw the vision, presented by the now Personalized Adjuster, of himself as a Son of God as he was before he came to earth in the likeness of mortal flesh, and as he would be when the incarnated life should be finished. This heavenly vision was seen only by Jesus.

136:2.5 (1512.1) It was the voice of the Personalized Adjuster that John and Jesus heard, speaking in behalf of the Universal Father, for the Adjuster is of, and as, the Paradise Father. Throughout the remainder of Jesus’ earth life this Personalized Adjuster was associated with him in all his labors; Jesus was in constant communion with this exalted Adjuster.

136:2.6 (1512.2) When Jesus was baptized, he repented of no misdeeds; he made no confession of sin. His was the baptism of consecration to the performance of the will of the heavenly Father. At his baptism he heard the unmistakable call of his Father, the final summons to be about his Father’s business, and he went away into private seclusion for forty days to think over these manifold problems. In thus retiring for a season from active personality contact with his earthly associates, Jesus, as he was and on Urantia, was following the very procedure that obtains on the morontia worlds whenever an ascending mortal fuses with the inner presence of the Universal Father.

136:2.7 (1512.3) This day of baptism ended the purely human life of Jesus. The divine Son has found his Father, the Universal Father has found his incarnated Son, and they speak the one to the other.

136:2.8 (1512.4) (Jesus was almost thirty-one and one-half years old when he was baptized. While Luke says that Jesus was baptized in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, which would be A.D. 29 since Augustus died in A.D. 14, it should be recalled that Tiberius was coemperor with Augustus for two and one-half years before the death of Augustus, having had coins struck in his honor in October, A.D. 11. The fifteenth year of his actual rule was, therefore, this very year of A.D. 26, that of Jesus’ baptism. And this was also the year that Pontius Pilate began his rule as governor of Judea.)


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(45:4.13) Enoch, the first of the mortals of Urantia to fuse with the Thought Adjuster during the mortal life in the flesh.


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Comparisons to Jesus is not helpful. The universes of time and space are experiential....wisdom is important. Can you acquire the experience and wisdom of Michael too? After the Perean Hills, Jesus was also Michael...billions and billions of years of experience as a divine creator son. So, no, even when fused, you'll have some experience yet to gain. Consider the ascension career after fusion; it's still a long, long way to Paradise and that level of experience, wisdom, and perfecting. Fusion is the very first step in a long journey ahead...we are not named until then, it is a beginning and not an ending of our true ascension in time and space.

Study the mortal epochs and you will find that, eventually, most of us fuse on planet....usually takes 2-3 centuries, rather than the 2-3 decades it took Jesus.

If you key word search "impatience" you will find many warnings against this expression of immaturity as well.

Unfortunately, some UB students become a dreaded circle counter. Now enters the evil of pride as well as impatience.

Patience Grasshopper....from a fellow tadpole. It is not how fast one ascends or progresses, with eternity only direction is truly important. Time is the one talent given to all and we are given all that is needed once we begin the pilgrim's journey home to Paradise. Smell the roses along the way. Make friends. Have fun. Find ways to help others upon the path. Worry not about tomorrow, it will attend to itself. These are what the UB teaches the tadpoles of time.

Perfection awaits its time....and perfecting takes the time it takes. The journey takes care of its destination I think. And its not a race.

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What about Elijah and Enoch? The records attest that they so perfectly did the will of God that they fused with their adjusters and left this world in chariots of fire.
There are probably others who have fused which we haven't heard about too...

Ah, okay. Enoch was already mentioned here. :)


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Yes...great examples and beacons of hope for humanity. We are taught that over time more and more and more reach this normal form of planetary departure. But it is not required nor is it common....yet. The best way to become frog is to live loyally as a tadpole today....and tomorrow. But to strive earnestly to find, know, and do Father's will is always the best way to nurture growth and progress through the circles. We are not to be idle and we are not to be impatient. Only the balanced mind attains fusion...which results from a balanced life.

8)


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Thank you Gentlemen,

The purpose for this topic is this:
To address the predominant idea that men are "born sinners" and no matter what (even among UBer's) we are imperfect till death and can never live "perfectly" in this life, at least without regularly sinning and doing evil. Period.

From my standpoint the crux of what drove the religious leaders of the Jews to do away with Jesus was based on his teaching that all men are the sons of God. When he acknowledged this to Caiaphas at his trial it was the end. Yes, he intimated that he was different, that in his case he was THE Son of God but what about the rest of us? Don't Christians generally repel when UBers proclaim the heart of the teaching of Jesus, that we're ALL the sons of God? Why do they do this? Because like in Jesus' case it's blasphemy!

So, now here we are again. I ask you: Can we begin to live "perfectly"?

Not like Jesus, he is God. But "like" he did then, as we are human now? I have always considered this to be the heart of what Jesus taught, that we can do it now, and should.

As has already been pointed out, before Jesus perfected being a man, two had already done it. Enoch and Elijah.

We're not Jesus. So what!


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Certainly we can live in L&L here and now....but L&L is not perfect....just a step of perfecting. A planet becomes settled in L&L BECAUSE enough believers choose to live in L&L themselves, in their day and family and community. An excellent ideal and achievable in this life and on this world...right now.

Jesus taught the kingdom of God is neither there or then but it is here and now...for those with the eye and ear to see and listen.

8)


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Greetings nod,

You wrote
nodAmanaV wrote:
The purpose for this topic is this:
To address the predominant idea that men are "born sinners" and no matter what (even among UBer's) we are imperfect till death and can never live "perfectly" in this life, at least without regularly sinning and doing evil. Period.


What rubbish! I assume you agree.

Yes, we are born imperfect. Imperfection has to tend with evil, that's its job. Sin is something entirely different from imperfection and evil. Sin carries the free will with it. Evil is inevitable and necessary for imperfect beings because it offers choice and exercise of free will. Sin only happens when evil is recognized and chosen, when a person prefers to be imperfect and wants to stay imperfect.

The infinite goodness of the Father is beyond the comprehension of the finite mind of time; hence must there always be afforded a contrast with comparative evil (not sin) for the effective exhibition of all phases of relative goodness. Perfection of divine goodness can be discerned by mortal imperfection of insight only because it stands in contrastive association with relative imperfection in the relationships of time and matter in the motions of space. 4:3:6

Likewise, fusion does not make us perfect. There are still more choices to be made, more exercises of free will, more and more opportunities to discover God's will and opt for it. When we arrive on Paradise, we are only perfected in terms of purpose. Even then we're not perfect; we arrive there at a certain level of perfection, but there is always more perfection to come.

As you ascend the universe scale of creature development, you will find increasing goodness and diminishing evil in perfect accordance with your capacity for goodness-experience and truth-discernment. The ability to entertain error or experience evil will not be fully lost until the ascending human soul achieves final spirit levels. 132:2:6

So evil continues to tempt us even after fusion, all the way to final spirit levels, which happens in eternity. But sin is a different beast. Once fusion occurs the individual and the Adjuster are one and the same person. Sin at this point would require a conscious decision to undo something that cannot be undone. Fusion means fixation of divinity quality; fixation secures immortality. Sin destroys both divinity and immortality. I'm convinced that fusion cannot be undone. It is permanent; therefore, evil may continue to be encountered and experienced, but not conscious, pre-meditated sin.

Thought Adjuster fusion imparts eternal actualities to personality which were previously only potential. Among these new endowments may be mentioned: fixation of divinity quality, past-eternity experience and memory, immortality, and a phase of qualified potential absoluteness. 112:7:1  

nodAmanaV wrote:
Don't Christians generally repel when UBers proclaim the heart of the teaching of Jesus, that we're ALL the sons of God? Why do they do this? Because like in Jesus' case it's blasphemy!


What they balk at is what appears to be elevating ourselves to the level of gods. Jesus taught "sonship," which is a little different than "sons of God". Sons of God are members of God's family, children of the Almighty, creatures made by the Creator. The term "sons of God" implies that inheritance is complete, that the sons are on the same level of God and capable of all that God is capable of. It's arrogance on steroids.

Sonship, however, must allow for recognition of family membership. It does not elevate a person to the level of a god. Sonship has requirements, one of which is recognizing God as the Father and patriarch of the family, the other is accepting that everyone else is a brother ( or sister) in the same family with the same gift. Sonship is a gift from the Father and therefore more humbling since it can be forfeited if the requirements are not met.

In all praying, remember that sonship is a gift. No child has aught to do with earning the status of son or daughter. The earth child comes into being by the will of its parents. Even so, the child of God comes into grace and the new life of the spirit by the will of the Father in heaven. Therefore must the kingdom of heaven—divine sonship—be received as by a little child. You earn righteousness—progressive character development—but you receive sonship by grace and through faith. 144:4:3

nodAmanaV wrote:
So, now here we are again. I ask you: Can we begin to live "perfectly"?


We can try. We can labor non-stop in our Father's fields. The important thing is to desire to be perfect knowing that perfection is a very long, and glorious, process of discovering your loving Father's will and ways.

In Friendship,
Rexford


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