Urantia Book Forum

Urantia Book Discussion Board : Study Group
It is currently Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:53 pm +0000

All times are UTC - 7 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Real Thinkers
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:23 pm +0000
Posts: 641
110:7.6 But with the vast majority of Urantians the Adjuster must patiently await the arrival of death deliverance; must await the liberation of the emerging soul from the well-nigh complete domination of the energy patterns and chemical forces inherent in your material order of existence. The chief difficulty you experience in contacting with your Adjusters consists in this very inherent material nature. So few mortals are real thinkers; you do not spiritually develop and discipline your minds to the point of favorable liaison with the divine Adjusters. The ear of the human mind is almost deaf to the spiritual pleas which the Adjuster translates from the manifold messages of the universal broadcasts of love proceeding from the Father of mercies. The Adjuster finds it almost impossible to register these inspiring spirit leadings in an animal mind so completely dominated by the chemical and electrical forces inherent in your physical natures.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Real Thinkers
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:07 am +0000
Posts: 923
Nice paragraph Louis. But I wonder if what the revelators are really driving at, with the phrase "real thinkers", is "real seekers".

Thinking is a quest for worthwhile associations of concepts. I suppose seeking is also. But maybe we don't normally consider morontia qualities as concepts. Though it seems that highly refined concepts do drive the mind towards synchronicity with the morontial realm. For myself, I'm extremely happy to recognize when a morontia quality or perception has been consciously experienced. I don't yet feel the need for associating one such perception to another. But maybe that is a factor of being less mature in terms of being able to actually work with the morontial? So the quest so far has merely been to conjure or recognize the morontial.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Real Thinkers
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:40 pm +0000
Posts: 2565
101:2.8 (1106.7) Reason is the proof of science, faith the proof of religion, logic the proof of philosophy, but revelation is validated only by human experience. Science yields knowledge; religion yields happiness; philosophy yields unity; revelation confirms the experiential harmony of this triune approach to universal reality.

101:2.9 (1106.8) The contemplation of nature can only reveal a God of nature, a God of motion. Nature exhibits only matter, motion, and animation — life. Matter plus energy, under certain conditions, is manifested in living forms, but while natural life is thus relatively continuous as a phenomenon, it is wholly transient as to individualities. Nature does not afford ground for logical belief in human-personality survival. The religious man who finds God in nature has already and first found this same personal God in his own soul.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Real Thinkers
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:23 am +0000
Posts: 818
Greetings,

I think we're supposed to organize our knowledge into idea-decisions and then use wisdom, or philosophy, to transform those ideas into ideals. Ideals are then spiritized by the Adjuster in the soul and activated by the Spirit of Truth in real life relations, which contributes to the development of a righteous character worthy of the morontia level of reality. See quote below:

Revelation teaches mortal man that, to start such a magnificent and intriguing adventure through space by means of the progression of time, he should begin by the organization of knowledge into idea-decisions; next, mandate wisdom to labor unremittingly at its noble task of transforming self-possessed ideas into increasingly practical but nonetheless supernal ideals, even those concepts which are so reasonable as ideas and so logical as ideals that the Adjuster dares so to combine and spiritize them as to render them available for such association in the finite mind as will constitute them the actual human complement thus made ready for the action of the Truth Spirit of the Sons, the time-space manifestations of Paradise truth—universal truth. The co-ordination of idea-decisions, logical ideals, and divine truth constitutes the possession of a righteous character, the prerequisite for mortal admission to the ever-expanding and increasingly spiritual realities of the morontia worlds. 101:6:7

In Friendship,
Rexford


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Real Thinkers
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 5:02 am +0000
Posts: 1369
(115:0.1)

With God the Father,
sonship is the great relationship.

With God the Supreme,
achievement is the prerequisite to status—

one must do something
as well as be something.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Real Thinkers
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 5:02 am +0000
Posts: 1369
Is thinking
doing
or
being?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Real Thinkers
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:23 am +0000
Posts: 818
Greetings nod,

You ask:
nodAmanaV wrote:
Is thinking
doing
or
being?


Thinking is both doing and being. Can one "be" with out mind, the source of thought? Decisions require pre-thinking, making up one's mind, which I consider to be "doing something". When Einstein sat in his comfy chair doing his thought experiments, was he just being? Or was he being a thinker while doing something with his thoughts in his head?

In Friendship,
Rexford


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Real Thinkers
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 5:02 am +0000
Posts: 1369
Hi Rex,

You ask:
Rexford wrote:
Or was [Einstein] being a thinker while doing something with his thoughts in his head?

When Einstein was doing his thought experiments, do you think at the time, he was a "real thinker" (110:7.6) or just thinking?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Real Thinkers
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:23 am +0000
Posts: 818
Greetings nod,

What do you think the differences between thinking and real thinking are? I would say that all thinking is real, but not all thinking has value.

Rex


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Real Thinkers
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:23 am +0000
Posts: 818
Greetings All,

Isn't quote 110:7:6 about reflective or cosmic thinking? Not all thought is serviceable towards that end, but it is real nonetheless. Reflective, or cosmic, thinking requires the balanced use of the three cosmic reality recognition responses mentioned in Paper 16. It's about the discipline of thinking, the habit of keeping it serviceable with proper focus and attitude.

Religion must continually labor under a paradoxical necessity: the necessity of making effective use of thought while at the same time discounting the spiritual serviceableness of all thinking.102:3:1

In Friendship,
Rexford


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Real Thinkers
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Thu May 28, 2015 5:02 am +0000
Posts: 1369
Rexford wrote:
Greetings nod,

What do you think the differences between thinking and real thinking are? I would say that all thinking is real, but not all thinking has value.

Rex

Hi Rex,

Yes I'm beginning to believe that a lot of thinking that isn't "real thinking" (110:7.6) is valueless, as you point out too.

If this type of valueless thinking grips someone, keeps them in a state of paralyzation, keeps them imprisoned and unable to think favorably to "liaison with the divine Adjuster" then it's not good for much. In fact, it's quite dangerous.

I think that's the difference.

Thinking is either real and is a part of what will become realized in eternal life, or not. If it's not, it's a big waste of time.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Real Thinkers
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:23 am +0000
Posts: 818
Greetings nod,

So, let me see if I understand your use of the word "real". Are you referring to the process where the personality becomes more real through its thoughtful decisions? The process where "real" means mental attunement with the Adjuster?

I agree that this type of thinking is the most valuable. But a lot of human thinking is merely a search for meanings in order to make decisions. I think it's the misinterpretation of meanings that often derail people's thinking. The human mind is capable of all sorts of distortions of meaning which has effects on behavior. But without this trial and error process of failure and success of ideas and their meanings, there would be no such thing as wisdom.

Wisdom comes from experience with reality, and at the human level, I think it's inevitable that failure and disappointment will come at some point during one's life. Unwise choices will be made. But there is some value in that too, provided something is learned from it and the search begins again for a new way to approach the problems of living. Unwise thinking is not dangerous as long as the consequences of it become an impetus to seek further for truth.

Is the love of truth and the willingness to go wherever it leads, desirable? Then must man grow up in a world where error is present and falsehood always possible. 3:5.10

They say that most of human thinking is in conversation form (see quote below). Usually it's the mind conversing with itself as though there was someone else in the mind (which there is). But if you adopt the concept of an alter ego and then turn the conversation into a prayer, the alter ego eventually becomes more and more Godlike over time (that's the nature of prayer). And, that is one way to train the mind to think with proper alignment. First you keep the mind in the conversational mode, a conversation with an internal "other", then you you keep the conversation reverential, loving and trusting. But unfortunately, some can still go wrong here if they lack the mental discipline required to keep the pureness of heart necessary for that childlike faith that Jesus spoke of so often.

Very much of an adult's thinking is mentally carried on in conversational form. 91:3:1

I think the best kind of thinking is prayerful thinking, the kind that constantly seeks spiritual insight, then uses that insight to adjust the meanings which affect decision making in one's life. I think they call that reflective thinking too.

In Friendship,
Rexford


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Real Thinkers
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:59 pm +0000
Posts: 330
Location: North Dakota
Quote:
110:7.6 But with the vast majority of Urantians the Adjuster must patiently await the arrival of death deliverance; must await the liberation of the emerging soul from the well-nigh complete domination of the energy patterns and chemical forces inherent in your material order of existence. The chief difficulty you experience in contacting with your Adjusters consists in this very inherent material nature. So few mortals are real thinkers; you do not spiritually develop and discipline your minds to the point of favorable liaison with the divine Adjusters. The ear of the human mind is almost deaf to the spiritual pleas which the Adjuster translates from the manifold messages of the universal broadcasts of love proceeding from the Father of mercies. The Adjuster finds it almost impossible to register these inspiring spirit leadings in an animal mind so completely dominated by the chemical and electrical forces inherent in your physical natures.

The Solitary Messenger who wrote this does not seem confused about the effort the Thought Adjuster has to put forth to try to get his “spiritual pleas” into our thick heads. Further, he is very clear that the path to human realization of these issues is not the entertainment of every physically energized thought that might pop into our brains but for each of us to pursue the realization of spiritual value as our primary goal. In that regard the human race produces few real thinkers, he says. I hear him saying there are very few people who concentrate on spiritual reality as a transcendent experience rather than exercising the factual comprehension and understanding capabilities of the material mind. It seems the mind has abilities inherent in it that we rarely use. To me he is saying that it is not what we think about but how we don’t allow ourselves to explore our mind’s abilities to “think” differently than we are used to that is our failing. Yet what do we do? We try to use the abilities we are most comfortable with to perform the work designed for spiritual thinking. In other words, as we discussed on an earlier thread, there are only a few really focused and disciplined soul builders. I see this as the difference between thinking about spiritual reality to attempt to understand it from our perspective and really thinking spiritually to discover God’s perspective; to see “eye to eye” (110:2.5) with our Thought Adjuster. The latter is done via experience, and isn’t that the import of the Fifth Epochal Revelation after all? Apparently he is not misguided when he says we humans “do not spiritually develop and discipline our minds to the point of favorable liaison with the divine Adjusters.” And no amount of alternative explanation or attempted justification, not even the complete memorization of the Urantia Book (if that were possible) will change that statement and make it false. Knowledge of the holy is not holiness and knowledge of God does not make us Godly. Only spiritual focus, wholehearted desire, fierce determination and self discovering discipline do. Jesus’ brother James said that we need to be doers not merely hearers; the concept is not new but when a Solitary Messenger says it I am inspired to take it more seriously.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Real Thinkers
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 23, 2015 9:23 am +0000
Posts: 818
Greetings Jim George,

In regards to this:
Jim George wrote:
Apparently he is not misguided when he says we humans “do not spiritually develop and discipline our minds to the point of favorable liaison with the divine Adjusters.” . . . . Only spiritual focus, wholehearted desire, fierce determination and self discovering discipline do.


Don't you think the way to spiritually develop and discipline our minds is prayer? Prayer does not increase knowledge, but it does increase spiritual insight, and spiritual insight is a higher level of thought. Jesus lived a prayerful life and he considered prayer to be an exaltation of intellection and an enrichment of thought (see quote below).

To him prayer was a sincere expression of spiritual attitude, a declaration of soul loyalty, a recital of personal devotion, an expression of thanksgiving, an avoidance of emotional tension, a prevention of conflict, an exaltation of intellection, an ennoblement of desire, a vindication of moral decision, an enrichment of thought, an invigoration of higher inclinations, a consecration of impulse, a clarification of viewpoint, a declaration of faith, a transcendental surrender of will, a sublime assertion of confidence, a revelation of courage, the proclamation of discovery, a confession of supreme devotion, the validation of consecration, a technique for the adjustment of difficulties, and the mighty mobilization of the combined soul powers to withstand all human tendencies toward selfishness, evil, and sin. 196:0:10

In Friendship,
Rexford


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: Real Thinkers
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 15, 2003 8:59 pm +0000
Posts: 330
Location: North Dakota
Rexford,

I know what the Urantia Book says about prayer and I find though, in practice I am not so process specific; a process that to me would seem mechanical and unreal. So in my mind, what I posted is a revelation of how I pray. I try to see eye to eye with my Thought Adjuster. My hope is that by submitting my will to God he will enable me to discover the more perfect way for me and I will sometime discover he has led me to do what I now see as too formal. How about you? I am constantly attempting to discover the more effective process in communicating with God. But even that is my own subjective evaluation of what I am able to do. I am sure you find the same problem in effecting the reality of these teachings in your own life and soul. I believe we all do.

Jim


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Registered users: Google Feedfetcher


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group