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Rexford says above: "It's my understanding that God's "pure" love, as you call it, does come in degrees, according to the soul's capacity for receptivity and the personality's devotion to God's will. God's love is personal and comes as a spiritual presence which is felt within the soul.

The spiritual presence of Divinity must of necessity be differential in the universe. It is determined by the spiritual capacity of receptivity and by the degree of the consecration of the creature’s will to the doing of the divine will. 5:2:1


Me: Yes I agree. My poor analogy was intended to illustrate the same - the gauge of the "wire" and the size of the "fuse" determines the "flow" or strength of current but does not change or reduce the nature of the energy/love itself, but does change its power effect. Clumsy I know. The more we grow in spirit, the larger our gauge and fuse and flow.

Brad 8)


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Greetings Brad,

I see the connection now. Thanks.

What do you think of my question concerning the Father's personality circuit?

Rex


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I agree that all true worship and communion is received by God by the personality circuit. Indeed, one might say that this is an early and primary form of "attainment of the Father"....we may attain communion and we may communicate by prayer and worship. This is the love circuit too, to give love to Father is as effective as giving love to others.

5:3.2 (65.4) Supplications of all kinds belong to the realm of the Eternal Son and the Son’s spiritual organization. Prayers, all formal communications, everything except adoration and worship of the Universal Father, are matters that concern a local universe; they do not ordinarily proceed out of the realm of the jurisdiction of a Creator Son. But worship is undoubtedly encircuited and dispatched to the person of the Creator by the function of the Father’s personality circuit. We further believe that such registry of the homage of an Adjuster-indwelt creature is facilitated by the Father’s spirit presence. There exists a tremendous amount of evidence to substantiate such a belief, and I know that all orders of Father fragments are empowered to register the bona fide adoration of their subjects acceptably in the presence of the Universal Father. The Adjusters undoubtedly also utilize direct prepersonal channels of communication with God, and they are likewise able to utilize the spirit-gravity circuits of the Eternal Son.

5:6.9 (71.4) The bestowal of creature personality confers relative liberation from slavish response to antecedent causation, and the personalities of all such moral beings, evolutionary or otherwise, are centered in the personality of the Universal Father. They are ever drawn towards his Paradise presence by that kinship of being which constitutes the vast and universal family circle and fraternal circuit of the eternal God. There is a kinship of divine spontaneity in all personality.

5:6.10 (71.5) The personality circuit of the universe of universes is centered in the person of the Universal Father, and the Paradise Father is personally conscious of, and in personal touch with, all personalities of all levels of self-conscious existence. And this personality consciousness of all creation exists independently of the mission of the Thought Adjusters.

5:6.11 (71.6) As all gravity is circuited in the Isle of Paradise, as all mind is circuited in the Conjoint Actor and all spirit in the Eternal Son, so is all personality circuited in the personal presence of the Universal Father, and this circuit unerringly transmits the worship of all personalities to the Original and Eternal Personality.

8)


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Thank you all so much for expounding upon your answers to my original questions.

I have not been able to participate due to increased demands at work and a recent tragedy that has befallen upon one of my best friends. Nevertheless, please continue the discourse, it is well worth the read.

Thanks!


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Greetings Brad,

fanofVan wrote:
I agree that all true worship and communion is received by God by the personality circuit. Indeed, one might say that this is an early and primary form of "attainment of the Father"....we may attain communion and we may communicate by prayer and worship. This is the love circuit too, to give love to Father is as effective as giving love to others.


We were talking about the capacity of receptivity for the Father's love. Yes, we return love and adoration to the Father through his personality circuit, but do you think that is also the means by which we receive it, personality to personality?

Thanks,
Rex


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fanofVan wrote:
I agree that all true worship and communion is received by God by the personality circuit. Indeed, one might say that this is an early and primary form of "attainment of the Father"....we may attain communion and we may communicate by prayer and worship. This is the love circuit too, to give love to Father is as effective as giving love to others.

"fanofVan", I understand you statement above but you add "prayer" with "worship" and the Urantia Book narrations, quote which you presented seem not to present the UB context of "true worship" where I'm sure that you are also aware of the following quotes which would indicate something slightly different, from my point of view, and simply stated within text.

Quote:
(65.5) 5:3.3 Worship is for its own sake; prayer embodies a self- or creature-interest element; that is the great difference between worship and prayer. There is absolutely no self-request or other element of personal interest in true worship; we simply worship God for what we comprehend him to be. Worship asks nothing and expects nothing for the worshiper. We do not worship the Father because of anything we may derive from such veneration; we render such devotion and engage in such worship as a natural and spontaneous reaction to the recognition of the Father’s matchless personality and because of his lovable nature and adorable attributes.

(65.6) 5:3.4 The moment the element of self-interest intrudes upon worship, that instant devotion translates from worship to prayer and more appropriately should be directed to the person of the Eternal Son or the Creator Son. But in practical religious experience there exists no reason why prayer should not be addressed to God the Father as a part of true worship.

Although in the last quote above and the last sentence it indicates that there is no reason to not pray to the Father but in the previous sentences it should be addressed to "the Eternal Son or the Creator Son" where there are additional sections in the UB which state this also, and that prayer is redirected to the Son.

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(22.5) 1:1.2 The Universal Father never imposes any form of arbitrary recognition, formal worship, or slavish service upon the intelligent will creatures of the universes. The evolutionary inhabitants of the worlds of time and space must of themselves — in their own hearts — recognize, love, and voluntarily worship him. The Creator refuses to coerce or compel the submission of the spiritual free wills of his material creatures. The affectionate dedication of the human will to the doing of the Father’s will is man’s choicest gift to God; in fact, such a consecration of creature will constitutes man’s only possible gift of true value to the Paradise Father. In God, man lives, moves, and has his being; there is nothing which man can give to God except this choosing to abide by the Father’s will, and such decisions, effected by the intelligent will creatures of the universes, constitute the reality of that true worship which is so satisfying to the love-dominated nature of the Creator Father.

(22.6) 1:1.3 When you have once become truly God-conscious, after you really discover the majestic Creator and begin to experience the realization of the indwelling presence of the divine controller, then, in accordance with your enlightenment and in accordance with the manner and method by which the divine Sons reveal God, you will find a name for the Universal Father which will be adequately expressive of your concept of the First Great Source and Center. And so, on different worlds and in various universes, the Creator becomes known by numerous appellations, in spirit of relationship all meaning the same but, in words and symbols, each name standing for the degree, the depth, of his enthronement in the hearts of his creatures of any given realm.

Generally, "true worship" is a state of communication within oneself, through the heart full, understanding of the attainment of the Father in doing the Father's will, as is perceived and understood by the individual and their personal experience with Him. The attainment of the Father cannot be taught, it must be experienced, and everyone's experience is different, therefore cannot be taught by others.


Last edited by Caligastia on Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:53 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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Rexford wrote:
Greetings Brad,

fanofVan wrote:
I agree that all true worship and communion is received by God by the personality circuit. Indeed, one might say that this is an early and primary form of "attainment of the Father"....we may attain communion and we may communicate by prayer and worship. This is the love circuit too, to give love to Father is as effective as giving love to others.


We were talking about the capacity of receptivity for the Father's love. Yes, we return love and adoration to the Father through his personality circuit, but do you think that is also the means by which we receive it, personality to personality?

Thanks,
Rex


So glad to hear from quil!!!!!!!!!!!!! Our best wishes to you while dealing with the vicissitudes, hope to hear back from you as you are able.

Rex - I think love is received (and given) in circuit by the exchange between personalities, yes. It is not a function of reciprocation though so much as a self forgetting GIVING that activates the circuitry to the benefit of the one giving even more perhaps than the one receiving (?). The giving is the critical element for the actual receiving "effect" of current flow through (if that makes sense). And I think this is universal for all beings. We receive God's love through the relationship circuitry and this is why we are to love one another and to serve one another without self causing an obstacle or constriction to the free flowing current of Divine Love. And I think worship is a form of direct circuit connection to God in which love flows in both directions at once.

However, I think that mortals and mortal born ascenders have a more direct "love" connection by the ministry and presence of the TAs. For us God resides within. The TAs love us directly and personally in their ministry. So this means, I think, that we have a double connection, if you will to both the circuit and the direct relationship with Father Within.

If I am correct (BIG IF), then all universe beings have a double connection to the love circuit while we have a trifecta!!! The circuit between personalities in loving relationship, the worship connection in which love flows both directions, and the TA direct line of circuit connection. There are hundreds of quotes on "worship" and its functionality which increases based on spiritization levels which indicates it is a form of energy/battery charger compared to our normal sleep cycles but which can be experienced even by the sincere tadpole.

I do wonder what worship is or may be like after fusion WITH the Father Fragment....think I'll study some on that for any differences that might be discerned between fused ascenders and all others. Will worship change for us or is it different for us than all others once fused with Father? The ascender is the personality component of the fused being to come. Interesting. Enjoying myself...thanks all.

107:0.2 (1176.2) The Adjusters are the actuality of the Father’s love incarnate in the souls of men; they are the veritable promise of man’s eternal career imprisoned within the mortal mind; they are the essence of man’s perfected finaliter personality, which he can foretaste in time as he progressively masters the divine technique of achieving the living of the Father’s will, step by step, through the ascension of universe upon universe until he actually attains the divine presence of his Paradise Father.

107:0.3 (1176.3) God, having commanded man to be perfect, even as he is perfect, has descended as the Adjuster to become man’s experiential partner in the achievement of the supernal destiny which has been thus ordained. The fragment of God which indwells the mind of man is the absolute and unqualified assurance that man can find the Universal Father in association with this divine Adjuster, which came forth from God to find man and sonship him even in the days of the flesh.

107:0.4 (1176.4) Any mortal who has seen a Creator Son has seen the Universal Father, and he who is indwelt by a divine Adjuster is indwelt by the Paradise Father. Every mortal who is consciously or unconsciously following the leading of his indwelling Adjuster is living in accordance with the will of God. Consciousness of Adjuster presence is consciousness of God’s presence. Eternal fusion of the Adjuster with the evolutionary soul of man is the factual experience of eternal union with God as a universe associate of Deity.


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Greetings Brad,

fanofVan wrote:
However, I think that mortals and mortal born ascenders have a more direct "love" connection by the ministry and presence of the TAs. For us God resides within. The TAs love us directly and personally in their ministry. So this means, I think, that we have a double connection, if you will to both the circuit and the direct relationship with Father Within.


The only problem I have with this is that the Adjuster is pre-personal. If love is between persons, are we capable of experiencing love directly from the Adjuster or is it through him? Personalities who are not indwelt by an Adjuster receive the Father's love by the embrace of the personality circuit. So, I do not think that it's a double dose of love that we have. The circuit of divine love appears to be same for all personalities through the personality circuit.

Concerning those personalities who are not Adjuster indwelt: The attribute of choice-liberty is also bestowed by the Universal Father, and such persons are likewise embraced in the great circuit of divine love, the personality circuit of the Universal Father. 5:6:12

If anything, I think we are fortunate in that we have a tri-fold revelation of the Father's love within our souls. We have the Adjuster, the Spirit of Truth and the Holy Spirit.

Rex


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What is the meaning of this Attainment of the Universal Father?
I recognise much that is already true: fusion with the Thought Adjuster Fragment, all the work that is necessary. And yet the Attainment of the Universal Father is not found until only after man has entered into Paradise with the Universal Father.


at what point, if any, does a planet progress sufficiently for the ascenders to no longer be considered Agondonter?
I will suggest the possibility that even after a planet has attained the final stage of Light & Life, it could remain as agondonter planetary life sphere.

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to the Underlaying Unity of All Life so that the Voice of Intuition may guide Us closer to Our Common Keeper


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