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OUR Planet Urantia Aka Earth IS Still Yet Only Semi Civilized
And seems most confused and greatly retarded .

50:6.2 The development of civilization on Urantia has not differed so greatly from that of other worlds which have sustained the misfortune of spiritual isolation. But when compared with the loyal worlds of the universe, your planet seems most confused and greatly retarded in all phases of intellectual progress and spiritual attainment.


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Louis,

BB's contention is that "trancelike" means something like "any state that appears to be but actually isn't a trance." After some reflection, my current position is that "trancelike" is simply an adjective form of "trance." So by being a derivative of the word "trance", its meaning includes the state of mind to which the word refers. In other words, it means any state of mind that looks like a trance-- this would include the state of being in a trance.

I don't think the dispute is worth waterboarding over (.... yet :-$ )


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coop, I used to take such offense at their description of our world being backward and confused. But after having read the text for many years, I get it now.

When I was growing up, there was a "special" school that all the kids in my district who could not conform were pumped into. It had elements of a prison to it. Though I never attended it, I had friends who did (they'd also send you if you got too far behind in your work for whatever reason, including medical ones). There was a certain stigma associated with attending this school. You didn't want to go there for a number of reasons. And pretty much every attendee was not exactly your stellar academic performer.

Now I realize, in this system, we're the kids in that school. But you know what? That just makes me love everyone here even more. We all have to carry that stigma together. And if I am to love myself despite my "upbringing" then I darn well better love my brothers and sisters here, too. I now feel blessed to be a cosmic retard. :D


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My Brother Quil 8)

I Agree , Sorry for being negative , in fact im always
the type thats positive / the glass is not only full
but overflowing .

Esp the fact that Michael chose to make his final
bestowal here .

Yes Were blessed by All the gifts from Michael and father.

I Feel blessed.


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quil wrote:
Louis,

BB's contention is that "trancelike" means something like "any state that appears to be but actually isn't a trance." After some reflection, my current position is that "trancelike" is simply an adjective form of "trance." So by being a derivative of the word "trance", its meaning includes the state of mind to which the word refers. In other words, it means any state of mind that looks like a trance-- this would include the state of being in a trance.

I don't think the dispute is worth waterboarding over (.... yet :-$ )


Thanks quil. I was on the verge of taking a bucket of H2O to BB myself. You knocked some sense into this lunatic. Thanks to Brad I am now stigmatized and my self esteem has suffered greatly. I can no longer take response ability for my actions. Please, someone tell Brad what he has done. But I forgive him, that old scarecrow. :lol:


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coop wrote:
Specific details are not discussed.


Exactly. So basically you speculate and I speculate. I believe it was channeled.

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MannyC wrote:
coop wrote:
148:8.3 (1666.2) About this time there arrived at the Bethsaida encampment a trance prophet from Bagdad, one Kirmeth. This supposed prophet had peculiar visions when in trance and dreamed fantastic dreams when his sleep was disturbed. He created a considerable disturbance at the camp, and Simon Zelotes was in favor of dealing rather roughly with the self-deceived pretender, but Jesus intervened and allowed him entire freedom of action for a few days. All who heard his preaching soon recognized that his teaching was not sound as judged by the gospel of the kingdom. He shortly returned to Bagdad, taking with him only a half dozen unstable and erratic souls. But before Jesus interceded for the Bagdad prophet, David Zebedee, with the assistance of a self-appointed committee, had taken Kirmeth out into the lake and, after repeatedly plunging him into the water, had advised him to depart hence — to organize and build a camp of his own.


Well, this may have been the first recorded case of water boarding. Be careful, BB. They may come after you for using the word trance. :lol:


26:11.7 "... you entered the long transit trance preparatory for the journey to Havona."

:badgrin:

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-like
suffix

1. resembling or similar to: lifelike, springlike
2. having the characteristics of: childlike, ladylike

source: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/-like?s=t

And that applies to the word "trancelike."

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Gentlemen,

I'm curious. Does anyone see a difference between a trance and a mystical state of mind?

Presumably, in a trance the individual is not fully conscious, there's little response to external stimuli unless suggested hypnotically. It's a sleep-like state of altered consciousness what some call semi-conscious.

In a mystical state, the consciousness is diffuse with little vivid focalizations of attention, but without interference from an active intellect, as described in Paper 100. Although it is an altered state of consciousness, the mind in a mystical state is not asleep. It seems to have selective heightened consciousness concerning those little islands of mystic attention.

They seem similar, but different. I'm not convinced either one is a worthwhile pursuit. I think there are easier ways to interact with the divine.

Plus, it was mentioned earlier that trances are like deja vu. I don't see the connection. Deja vu is the feeling of having experienced something before. What happens is that something unconsciously or semiconsciously experienced previously was tucked away in the subconscious at the time and suddenly surfaces into consciousness at a later time. There's nothing mystical at all about that.

In Friendship,
Rexford


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Since when does a trance not have the characteristics of a trance?

I get that generally the -like suffix is used in contexts that are outside to scope of the root word, but the point is that the meaning has an INCLUSIVE nature, not exclusive.

Otherwise a boy could never exhibit childlike behavior. An English lady could never be ladylike! "That's not very ladylike of you!" Interesting universe to live in...


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Rexford wrote:
Gentlemen,

I'm curious. Does anyone see a difference between a trance and a mystical state of mind?

Presumably, in a trance the individual is not fully conscious, there's little response to external stimuli unless suggested hypnotically. It's a sleep-like state of altered consciousness what some call semi-conscious.

In a mystical state, the consciousness is diffuse with little vivid focalizations of attention, but without interference from an active intellect, as described in Paper 100. Although it is an altered state of consciousness, the mind in a mystical state is not asleep. It seems to have selective heightened consciousness concerning those little islands of mystic attention.

They seem similar, but different. I'm not convinced either one is a worthwhile pursuit. I think there are easier ways to interact with the divine.

Plus, it was mentioned earlier that trances are like deja vu. I don't see the connection. Deja vu is the feeling of having experienced something before. What happens is that something unconsciously or semiconsciously experienced previously was tucked away in the subconscious at the time and suddenly surfaces into consciousness at a later time. There's nothing mystical at all about that.

In Friendship,
Rexford


The revelators tell us a trance occurs during sleep.

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superconscious illusion seemingly exhibits some of the characteristics of superconscious contact with TA. The former does not invalidate the latter however.

:roll:

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Last edited by brooklyn_born on Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:11 am +0000, edited 2 times in total.

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I tell you what coop, i will defer to the exact term used in the papers, to answer your question. Hopefully that will remove any semantics with regards the term "channeling" and the consternation it engenders in TUB circles. I believe the "channel of communication" used to bring about the Urantia papers was human mind; or the information was channeled through the mind (56:2.2). I do not subscribe to the theory of a literal materialization of the papers. Pencil was put to paper to record revelation channeled through human mind.

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brooklyn_born,

You wrote:
brooklyn_born wrote:
The revelators tell us a trance occurs during sleep.


I must have missed that. Where does it say that humans, alive on this earth today, go into a trance when they sleep? (And by the way, the transit trance is an entirely different animal.) Would you mind providing a reference?

I'm not sure who you directed your comment concerning the superconscious to, but I don't understand that either. There is no such thing as a superconscious illusion. Could you please supply the reference for that too?

Thanks,
Rexford


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Rexford wrote:
brooklyn_born,

I must have missed that. Where does it say that humans, alive on this earth today, go into a trance when they sleep? (And by the way, the transit trance is an entirely different animal.) Would you mind providing a reference?



I don't know in what other manner to explain this. I choose not to confine my understanding strictly to facts presented in the text. I recognize facts for what they are and look beyond them for spiritual meanings and realities; I seek truth. That is where my mental maturity lies.

Perhaps the following could illuminate the idea I want to share...

Quote:
44:0.9 I cannot, with exclusive spirit vision, perceive the building in which this narrative is being translated and recorded. A Divine Counselor from Uversa who chances to stand by my side perceives still less of these purely material creations. We discern how these material structures appear to you by viewing a spirit counterpart presented to our minds by one of our attending energy transformers. This material building is not exactly real to me, a spirit being, but it is, of course, very real and very serviceable to material mortals.


That this particular revelator cannot see the facts of a material building in no way diminishes facts that pertain to it. But he sees the truth of the building through spiritual discernment; facts are transformed in his mind into spiritual realities, with the aid of transformers. In our case, Adjusters serve in such capacity. This celestial sees the spiritual counterpart of the building. Now, imagine him attempting to convey what he sees spiritually in this building that the structure, truthfully or spiritually speaking, is such and such. To a literalist this celestial would be viewed as a madman.

Facts are not quite real to a spiritually minded person. Materially minded people rest upon facts almost exclusively, however.

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