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 Post subject: The Jesus Myth
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Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 1:09 pm +0000
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Location: Allen, TX
I've seen many articles lately claiming either the story of Jesus was appropriated from earlier religious myths and stories, (horus, buddha, mithras, etc.) or that Jesus was not an actual historical figure.

A lot of this is just atheist rantings and simple intellectual fraud. However, many unlearned people will accept these specious facts as truth and not give another thought to questioning the authenticity of these lies.

My question is what can one do to refute these claims? Can we come up with a paper or list of facts that support the historicity of Jesus and debunk the comparisons to other ancient stories?

Or do we just leave it be and let the Holy Spirit do their work in the hearts of man?

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 Post subject: Re: The Jesus Myth
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Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2012 2:07 am +0000
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Hi JWS3Sons,

One fairly irrefutable historical fact is the existence of James, the brother of Jesus. You might find several books by researchers interesting:

http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/ent ... s_the_Just
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_the_Just


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 Post subject: Re: The Jesus Myth
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Joined: Sun Dec 02, 2012 11:16 am +0000
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Location: Canada
JWS3Sons wrote:
I've seen many articles lately claiming either the story of Jesus was appropriated from earlier religious myths and stories, (horus, buddha, mithras, etc.) or that Jesus was not an actual historical figure.

A lot of this is just atheist rantings and simple intellectual fraud. However, many unlearned people will accept these specious facts as truth and not give another thought to questioning the authenticity of these lies.

My question is what can one do to refute these claims? Can we come up with a paper or list of facts that support the historicity of Jesus and debunk the comparisons to other ancient stories?

Or do we just leave it be and let the Holy Spirit do their work in the hearts of man?

While atheist skepticism has led to the undermining of historical claims of Jesus's existence, it is the opposite frame of mind that brings us the inaccurate ramblings about the origins of the Jesus story.

Zeitgeist is a pretty famous movie on the internet. It makes many errant claims. You might want to go through this debunking, or save it for future reference. I have not read through it, myself, so I can't vouch for the quality of the content. But it addresses the claims (including the ones about Jesus) of the Zeitgeist movie.

http://conspiracies.skepticproject.com/ ... /zeitgeist


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 Post subject: Re: The Jesus Myth
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Joined: Tue Oct 07, 2003 10:09 pm +0000
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"Nonbelievers" are believers in opinions that something exceptional, profound and undeniable did not occurred 2,000 years ago, something that has been attributed by believers to the teachings of one man and to the life he lived. It's undeniable that world events took a sudden turn then; the calendar was stabilized based on events of that period, a quantum leap in religious and moral concepts was made with the birth of a new world religion, age-long kingdoms and empires disappeared and new cultures emerged. Any thinking nonbeliever can recognize this tremendous shift in the flow of history. Nonbelievers will have to devise their own explanations for the how and why of this shift in planetary evolution, but none of those explanations compare with the believer's attributing it to the spiritual influence of Jesus.

Larry


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 Post subject: Re: The Jesus Myth
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Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:57 am +0000
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It's here in 7 parts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8azcvBbm8Xc


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 Post subject: Re: The Jesus Myth
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:16 am +0000
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Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Hi Robert,

I started watching the first video, and struggled with your premise that Jesus used the popularity of the mysteries as a vehicle for his teaching.
Quote:
121:5.12-13 But do not make the mistake of confusing the teachings of Jesus with the mysteries. The popularity of the mysteries reveals man’s quest for survival, thus portraying a real hunger and thirst for personal religion and individual righteousness. Although the mysteries failed adequately to satisfy this longing, they did prepare the way for the subsequent appearance of Jesus, who truly brought to this world the bread of life and the water thereof.
Paul, in an effort to utilize the widespread adherence to the better types of the mystery religions, made certain adaptations of the teachings of Jesus so as to render them more acceptable to a larger number of prospective converts.

From this I infer that Jesus didn't need to use the mysteries - what he was offering was far superior, not to mention humanly satisfying. And that, if there was any intentional similarity, it was Paul who created it, not Jesus.

But to be fair I only watched the first bit. Should I keep watching?

kiwi


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 Post subject: Re: The Jesus Myth
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Joined: Sun Jun 20, 2004 12:40 pm +0000
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HI kiwi2 8)

IMO YES Its well worth watching .


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 Post subject: Re: The Jesus Myth
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The historic evidence outside of the Gospels is pretty sparse. And it is true that there were other religions before Christianity that talked of saviors having divine births, performing miracles, dying and resurrecting. So it is not completely unreasonable for people to think the Jesus myth was concocted.

Similarly, even if Jesus did in fact exist as a flesh-and-blood being, it is likely that the early apostles may have exaggerated, embellished, or borrowed from other traditions, in telling the story of his life.

And there are still others that believe in the existence of Jesus but doubt the facts surrounding the resurrection. Did he die physically? Did it just appear that he was dead? There are even theories suggesting that a substitute was crucified in his place.

And it does appear historically true that much of Christian theology was made up by Paul and later Church Councils.

The life of Jesus was 2,000 years ago and the records are scarce. It is exceedingly difficult to prove anything one way or another. The story of Jesus has to be taken on faith.

Of course, we have institutions that have risen in his name: the Roman Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox Church, and the various Protestant denominations that arose during and after the Reformation. It is hard to think these organizations would have developed in history if there was no actual person that inspired them.

I think what happens, though,is people get so turned off by organized religion - the wars, the inquisition, the violence done in the name of God, hypocrisy, wealth, power, etc. - that they reject religion completely and become secular to various degrees, from spiritual not religious to adamantly atheist. It helps to remember that the Churches are not God or Jesus and that the Creator exists separate from any man-made organizations.


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 Post subject: Re: The Jesus Myth
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If you want someone to make the case for you, try the book "Did Jesus Exist?" by Professor Bart Ehrman (2012).


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 Post subject: Re: The Jesus Myth
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A great section from TUB
----------

(98:7.3) Christian religion, as a Urantian system of belief, arose through the compounding of the following teachings, influences, beliefs, cults, and personal individual attitudes:

(98:7.4) 1. The Melchizedek teachings, which are a basic factor in all the religions of Occident and Orient that have arisen in the last four thousand years.

(98:7.5) 2. The Hebraic system of morality, ethics, theology, and belief in both Providence and the supreme Yahweh.

(98:7.6) 3. The Zoroastrian conception of the struggle between cosmic good and evil, which had already left its imprint on both Judaism and Mithraism. Through prolonged contact attendant upon the struggles between Mithraism and Christianity, the doctrines of the Iranian prophet became a potent factor in determining the theologic and philosophic cast and structure of the dogmas, tenets, and cosmology of the Hellenized and Latinized versions of the teachings of Jesus.

(98:7.7) 4. The mystery cults, especially Mithraism but also the worship of the Great Mother in the Phrygian cult. Even the legends of the birth of Jesus on Urantia became tainted with the Roman version of the miraculous birth of the Iranian savior-hero, Mithras, whose advent on earth was supposed to have been witnessed by only a handful of gift-bearing shepherds who had been informed of this impending event by angels.

(98:7.8) 5. The historic fact of the human life of Joshua ben Joseph, the reality of Jesus of Nazareth as the glorified Christ, the Son of God.

(98:7.9) 6. The personal viewpoint of Paul of Tarsus. And it should be recorded that Mithraism was the dominant religion of Tarsus during his adolescence. Paul little dreamed that his well-intentioned letters to his converts would someday be regarded by still later Christians as the “word of God.” Such well-meaning teachers must not be held accountable for the use made of their writings by later-day successors.

(98:7.10) 7. The philosophic thought of the Hellenistic peoples, from Alexandria and Antioch through Greece to Syracuse and Rome. The philosophy of the Greeks was more in harmony with Paul’s version of Christianity than with any other current religious system and became an important factor in the success of Christianity in the Occident. Greek philosophy, coupled with Paul’s theology, still forms the basis of European ethics.


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Aloha... You can lead a horse to water but you can't make 'em drink.

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