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Relatively speaking, I have only just recently joined the Urantia Book Believers family , (since 2010), and we didn't have it here in Lebanon, so I asked my Brother to get it for me from the UK, and I believe he got it through Amazon;I Am referencing the origin because in the first page of the book, it states that

The Publisher is " Uversa Press" A subsidiary of "The Urantia Book Fellowship" and that the referenced website is " http://www.urantiabook.org

When I visited the website , I honestly Expected http://www.Truthbook.com to be referenced there, and up until this point, I always thought it was the mother website so to speak ,and all the other websites just branch out from it, I personally use it the most in my searches, studies, etc..

To my surprise , even this forum wasn't referenced on the http://www.urantiabook.org website, or any other website for that matter, (maybe I didn't look hard enough) but I didn't find any "link" or " sister websites" link of any sort.

Now my question is, Is there a dichotomy between the various Urantia Book websites ? are they related somehow ? Is there some sort of differential between them , a disagreement of some sort that lead this diversity? I was hoping especially the one affiliated with the administration and directly in contact with the commission to shed some light on the matter ?

to Sum up my query:

1- Is there any disagreement of some sort within the Urantia Book Believers that lead to a dichotomy of opinions and methods of administration regarding perhaps the proclamation,management, and dissemination of the Book?

2- What is the Mother Website of the Urantia book organization? (Urantia.org, urantiabook.org, truthbook.com, http://urantia-uai.org/ , http://ubis.urantia.org, etc...)


These are the major two questions;

I am teaching myself further to try and hopefully be qualified enough to start my own study group here in the region , and I am simply looking to know more about the organizational aspect of the foundation;

When I saw so many websites, I simply dreaded the possibility of perhaps having to deal with another (protestant, Catholic, orthodox , etc...) only with regards to Urantia Book believers; Is that happening ?

Looking forward to your inputs,
Thanks & God Bless

_________________
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9:5.7 Too often, all too often, you mar your minds by insincerity and sear them with unrighteousness;


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Hello Friend!! Interesting questions. There is great diversity today in the movement. The 90s saw the main groups become entangled and embroiled in typically human ways that resulted in evolutionary developments at the same time the world wide web was getting established that would affect dissemination in powerful ways....many good and others not so much (IMO). Centralization and consolidation are recurring now in some ways while diversity remains in full bloom. Many today work in their own mission projects and add new levels of scholarship and personal commitment to the general movement. Some take advantage of truth seekers in ways that serve their own best interests.

The Foundation was the original publisher and copyright holder of the text. Urantia Association International was formed to work closely with the Foundation for the dissemination of the UB and to sponsor study groups and conferences and a website. There is also UBIS, a very good internet and international school that provides curriculum and scholarly moderators/facilitators/teachers to about 100 students for each of 3 semesters/year. The Fellowship is probably the largest membership organization and was formed during the politically charged and contentious days in the 80s and 90s....they now publish the UB too, in the public domain. Truthbook is a long labor of love that has great support from many in all 3 of those primary organizations and I personally like this forum of students and truth seekers the best of all others.

I don't feel qualified to provide details about differences but I can tell you that truthbook, the Foundation, UBIS, the Fellowship, and Urantia Association International all have many friends in common and work together, now more than ever before, to disseminate the UB and its teachings. We all seek unity in our lack of uniformity. Peace.

Brad 8)


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Urantia Foundation, author of the http://www.urantia.org website, was founded in 1950 as the publisher of The Urantia Book. In 1955 the Urantia Brotherhood was founded as a fraternal organization working with Urantia Foundation to disseminate the book, promote the development of societies and study groups and to produce conferences... the two organizations worked together and both resided at 533 Diversey Parkway, in Chicago, the home of Dr. William S. Sadler. By the mid 1970s organizational friction was developing and Urantia Foundation forced the Urantia Brotherhood to move out of 533 and to change its name -- it became The Fellowship. The Fellowship is the author of the http://www.urantiabook.org website. So, two official organizations originally.

Since Urantia Foundation no longer had a fraternal organization to help disseminate the book it created a new fraternal organization originally named the IUA (in the early 1990s I believe and later renamed UAI). Since the Fellowship had no source for books to disseminate it created Uversa Press to print its two-column version of the book.

Truthbook.com is the website developed for the Jesusonian Foundation in Boulder, Colorado in 2000, predating both Urantia Foundation's and the Fellowship's websites. Both Jesusonian and Truthbook are privately owned and are not associated officially with either the Fellowship or the Foundation.

Many Urantia Societies as well as individual readers have websites associated with The Urantia Book and its teachings. There is no spokesperson, organization or website representing the book officially -- the book is its own authority -- however, along the way the book went from having no author/publisher identified with it to being listed with Urantia Foundation as its author.

The history of the development and publication of The Urantia Book is intriguing and interesting. The Urantia Book Historical Society, established in 2005 contains thousands of letters, memos and articles from the late 1890s to 2000 relating to Urantia Book history and the people associated with it. Its website is http://www.ubhistory.org.

Best wishes,
Larry Watkins


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Quote:
These are the major two questions;

I am teaching myself further to try and hopefully be qualified enough to start my own study group here in the region , and I am simply looking to know more about the organizational aspect of the foundation;

When I saw so many websites, I simply dreaded the possibility of perhaps having to deal with another (protestant, Catholic, orthodox , etc...) only with regards to Urantia Book believers; Is that happening ?


I think there is some conflict present, but its not that big of a conflict at all. Its more like sibling conflict. TUB does say that man learns through conflict, and in this case I think its perfectly evolutionarily fine. There is no real hatred just confusion.

The book is just written at such a high level that it can be hard to sort through all the confusion and that confusion manifests in the TUB community as well. I think its fine though. All part of the process as they say. :)

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StrongcharactersRnotderivedfromnotdoingwrongbutratherfrom
actuallydoingrightUnselfishnesisthebadgeofhumangreatnes
Thehighestlevelsofselfrealizationareatainedbyworshipandservice
Thehapyandefectivepersonismotivatednotbyfearofwrongdoingbutby
loveofrightdoing


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Thanks so much to ALL,
Your inputs have been very helpful, at least in pointing where to start :arrow:

One look at this website could shed some light at the reason of my confusion
http://ubwebsites.com/index.htm
That's A LOT of links...

It might seem like a good thing at these early stages of the dissemination,to put the book out there as much as possible, but will it really be a good thing for the future?
To have so many resources for the UB on the web! I mean there seems to be only 3 Major websites so far and already it is starting to get confusing, at least to me, what about 50 years from now, how many Major league websites will there be ? will each of those form his own kind of CHURCH ?

It just seems like the right thing to do is to have a hierarchy that administers and manages the dissemination , especially when it is so easy to just start your own website and claim that your way is the right way to disseminate!

What if a really rich person found the UB, believed in it, and he wasn't the most quote on quote " CENTERED " & BALANCED believer there is, and simply wanted to produce a large scale production movie/documentary series about the Book ; when according to the Foundation , the revelators admonished them not to attempt to reveal the UB in such a large scale operation until there has officially been established 1000 Study Groups world wide. (If I am not mistaken) . Who is to stop such an unwise act !?

It just seems right to trust the choice of the revelators in the mortals responsible for the dissemination of the revelation ! Kind of like when Gabriel chose the house of Mary and Joseph ; there were probably millions of factors they have thought of before choosing that specific place at 533 W Diversey Parkway, it just seems that, that's where HQ is...

I have looked at the "About Us" links in each of these three major websites, and it seems that they are all inter-related.

http://www.urantia.org [The one Belonging to the Original Foundation]
http://www.urantiabook.org -- The ones that broke off [The fellowship]
http://www.Truthbook.com -- so far IMO [The Level-Headed one 8) ]

What's interesting is that the chairman, which I also surmised is the founder, of Truthbook.com is Mr.Mo Seigil who was also a Trustee in the Foundation (http://www.urantia.org)
As a side note , I also recognized 3 names that I see here in the forums (larry watkings, Mary Jo Garascia, and Gremlin) --A special thanks to all of you for your efforts, and of course to every other member of truthbook.com, you truly are an inspiration :smile:

So , Urantia.org and Truthbook.com are really on the same page, the same family , in fact truthbook does mention both Urantia.org and Urantibook.org in there " special thanks section"
All the above info are found here http://truthbook.com/jesusonian-foundation

BUT

Urantia fellowship (http://www.urantiabook.org) claims NO AFFILIATION with urantia Foundation :shock:
Quote:

http://www.urantiabook.org/index-about-the-urantia-book-fellowship.htmAbout The Fellowship

The Urantia Book Fellowship -- founded in 1955 as Urantia Brotherhood -- is an inclusive association of individuals, families, and groups inspired by the transformative teachings of The Urantia Book. Through worldwide support of study, dissemination, and reader services, Fellowship members seek understanding among all readers of The Urantia Book and the peoples of the world. The Fellowship is committed to the ideal of spiritual unity, which embraces individual diversity, as embodied in the teachings of The Urantia Book. The Urantia Book Fellowship is unaffiliated with Urantia Foundation.

The Fellowship publishes the fully indexed edition of The Urantia Book through its own internal publishing agency, Uversa Press.

Reader Services and organizational business are managed by the General Council which consists of 36 members elected from the readership. The Council is assisted by an Executive Committee comprised of Council members who manage various working committees of The Fellowship.

The Urantia Book Fellowship is a member of the North American Interfaith Network.

Many devoted men and women have served the Fellowship since 1955. To view the bios of current Fellowship leaders, click here: The General Council.

I mean , OUCH!! :?
There's definitely some Drama in there :-$

Brother Larry summerized the History of the Foundation and the Fellowship most accurately, for those who are interested , this is the link http://urantiabook.designtechstudio.com/fellowship-public/brief-history.html

they do mention
Quote:
For 34 years, Urantia Brotherhood and Urantia Foundation worked together side-by-side on publication and dissemination, the Foundation having franchised the Brotherhood to use the name Urantia and the three-concentric-circles symbol. In 1989, due to ideological differences that are documented elsewhere, Urantia Foundation disenfranchised the Brotherhood.


and
Quote:
In 1996, when the Foundation lost the copyright to the Urantia Book, the Fellowship printed its own edition using its subsidiary Uversa Press. Once again the organization had an ample supply of books and was insured against ever again being cut off from supplies. The copyright was briefly reinstated, but in 2002 the original English text of the Urantia Book was legally declared to be in public domain. Since then the Urantia Book Fellowship has continued to print, distribute and improve its edition of the book. In 2005, the Fellowship sold its building in Chicago to become a virtual online organization capable of being managed online by readers anywhere in the world.


I still didn't examine the reason behind the break , YET, but to me this is VERY ALARMING !!
This means that anyone can simply alter the book as they please, isn't that right ?

Boom you said it is a sibling conflict, it is true that conflicts begets growth but I fear that in this instance it might beget "orthodox Urantia Church" and " protestant Urantia Church" , and ofcourse " Catholic Urantia Church"
It hasn't even been a 100 years since the revelation and already conflicts that resulted in breaks already happened....
I don't want to sound too pessimistic, but , not a good sign brother ... :|

_________________
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9:5.7 Too often, all too often, you mar your minds by insincerity and sear them with unrighteousness;


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Just one point to make here: "This means that anyone can simply alter the book as they please, isn't that right " Yes, certainly anyone can and it's been done -- The Aquarian Concepts Community and Gabriel of Urantia are an example. But who cares? The Bible can also be altered... who'd pay any attention? Copyright is a valuable tool for human authors earning money from their work. The Urantia Book is not a money-maker and its authors aren't human.

Larry


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Hello kicoverz!! The split between the Fellowship and the Foundation was over one primary issue: the Fellowship would not recognize the very centralized "control" mechanism you describe with the Foundation controlling the concentric circles as trademark and book title and sole publishing rights of the UB. It was an acrimonious mess driven by strong personalities on both sides, most of whom are not in leadership on either "side" of this old, old argument. I was a strong Fellowship advocate and activist. My "side" won the battle. Then came the onslaught of channeling, claiming many supporters in the Fellowship. I soon departed losing the war - liberty won and instantly lost....a confusing paradox for an outcome to me.

The Fellowship is attempting to be the "big tent" and has no specific policy in favor of or banning channeling activities at their events or study groups - which is not to suggest that all, most, or even many Fellowship members participate, endorse, or accept channeling. It's quite a sticky issue for them. They hope to bring unity without uniformity but are having trouble managing the potential in trying to be everything to everybody. I have many dear friends who remain loyal to this organization and don't wish any to misunderstand my position - noble idealism on 2 sides found no resolution in the middle at the time, that's all. But....people die and their grudges with them.

My belief is that all the strife and turmoil, like the Nebadon rebellion, has already born fruit and was well timed to bring important evolutionary experience to the "survivors" and those to come who will carry Michael's banner forward. Those who remained loyal to the Foundation's mission and vision formed into the Urantia Association International to partner directly with the Foundation's publication mandate to provide the mechanism of volunteer activists engaged in dissemination and in respect of the Foundation's text publishing and preservation authority. Currently, the Foundation and UAI together, and the Fellowship, are working quietly and with good intentions to mend some fences, build some bridges, and find ways to work together to further unify the movement's corps into new forms of cooperation. It will take more time yet and total reunification may never happen. Many have membership in both the Fellowship and UAI and support the Foundation.

The movement is now, as always, in the hands of Revelation believers, scholars, and students - not any organization with any meaningful authority or control. Like the gospel. Except this one came in print which will help thwart distortion and revision and worse. The original text is available for comparison. The Foundation formed a very respected team of scholars to note every edit from the original and makes this public and annotated in the downloaded form and online text in 2007 (I think). So is it that "he who is not for us is against us OR he who is not against us is for us?" I have no idea. But there are many stewards loyal to the Revelation and living its truths as best we know how. It is not what we're against that matters so much as what we stand FOR. Peace.

Here's a link to The Study Group Guide from the Association. Hope you like it.

http://urantia-uai.org/study-groups/study-group-guide/


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kicoverz wrote:
Thanks so much to ALL,
Your inputs have been very helpful, at least in pointing where to start :arrow:

One look at this website could shed some light at the reason of my confusion
http://ubwebsites.com/index.htm
That's A LOT of links...

It might seem like a good thing at these early stages of the dissemination,to put the book out there as much as possible, but will it really be a good thing for the future?
To have so many resources for the UB on the web! I mean there seems to be only 3 Major websites so far and already it is starting to get confusing, at least to me, what about 50 years from now, how many Major league websites will there be ? will each of those form his own kind of CHURCH ?

It just seems like the right thing to do is to have a hierarchy that administers and manages the dissemination , especially when it is so easy to just start your own website and claim that your way is the right way to disseminate!

What if a really rich person found the UB, believed in it, and he wasn't the most quote on quote " CENTERED " & BALANCED believer there is, and simply wanted to produce a large scale production movie/documentary series about the Book ; when according to the Foundation , the revelators admonished them not to attempt to reveal the UB in such a large scale operation until there has officially been established 1000 Study Groups world wide. (If I am not mistaken) . Who is to stop such an unwise act !?

It just seems right to trust the choice of the revelators in the mortals responsible for the dissemination of the revelation ! Kind of like when Gabriel chose the house of Mary and Joseph ; there were probably millions of factors they have thought of before choosing that specific place at 533 W Diversey Parkway, it just seems that, that's where HQ is...

I have looked at the "About Us" links in each of these three major websites, and it seems that they are all inter-related.

http://www.urantia.org [The one Belonging to the Original Foundation]
http://www.urantiabook.org -- The ones that broke off [The fellowship]
http://www.Truthbook.com -- so far IMO [The Level-Headed one 8) ]

What's interesting is that the chairman, which I also surmised is the founder, of Truthbook.com is Mr.Mo Seigil who was also a Trustee in the Foundation (http://www.urantia.org)
As a side note , I also recognized 3 names that I see here in the forums (larry watkings, Mary Jo Garascia, and Gremlin) --A special thanks to all of you for your efforts, and of course to every other member of truthbook.com, you truly are an inspiration :smile:

So , Urantia.org and Truthbook.com are really on the same page, the same family , in fact truthbook does mention both Urantia.org and Urantibook.org in there " special thanks section"
All the above info are found here http://truthbook.com/jesusonian-foundation

BUT

Urantia fellowship (http://www.urantiabook.org) claims NO AFFILIATION with urantia Foundation :shock:
Quote:

http://www.urantiabook.org/index-about-the-urantia-book-fellowship.htmAbout The Fellowship

The Urantia Book Fellowship -- founded in 1955 as Urantia Brotherhood -- is an inclusive association of individuals, families, and groups inspired by the transformative teachings of The Urantia Book. Through worldwide support of study, dissemination, and reader services, Fellowship members seek understanding among all readers of The Urantia Book and the peoples of the world. The Fellowship is committed to the ideal of spiritual unity, which embraces individual diversity, as embodied in the teachings of The Urantia Book. The Urantia Book Fellowship is unaffiliated with Urantia Foundation.

The Fellowship publishes the fully indexed edition of The Urantia Book through its own internal publishing agency, Uversa Press.

Reader Services and organizational business are managed by the General Council which consists of 36 members elected from the readership. The Council is assisted by an Executive Committee comprised of Council members who manage various working committees of The Fellowship.

The Urantia Book Fellowship is a member of the North American Interfaith Network.

Many devoted men and women have served the Fellowship since 1955. To view the bios of current Fellowship leaders, click here: The General Council.

I mean , OUCH!! :?
There's definitely some Drama in there :-$

Brother Larry summerized the History of the Foundation and the Fellowship most accurately, for those who are interested , this is the link http://urantiabook.designtechstudio.com/fellowship-public/brief-history.html

they do mention
Quote:
For 34 years, Urantia Brotherhood and Urantia Foundation worked together side-by-side on publication and dissemination, the Foundation having franchised the Brotherhood to use the name Urantia and the three-concentric-circles symbol. In 1989, due to ideological differences that are documented elsewhere, Urantia Foundation disenfranchised the Brotherhood.


and
Quote:
In 1996, when the Foundation lost the copyright to the Urantia Book, the Fellowship printed its own edition using its subsidiary Uversa Press. Once again the organization had an ample supply of books and was insured against ever again being cut off from supplies. The copyright was briefly reinstated, but in 2002 the original English text of the Urantia Book was legally declared to be in public domain. Since then the Urantia Book Fellowship has continued to print, distribute and improve its edition of the book. In 2005, the Fellowship sold its building in Chicago to become a virtual online organization capable of being managed online by readers anywhere in the world.


I still didn't examine the reason behind the break , YET, but to me this is VERY ALARMING !!
This means that anyone can simply alter the book as they please, isn't that right ?

Boom you said it is a sibling conflict, it is true that conflicts begets growth but I fear that in this instance it might beget "orthodox Urantia Church" and " protestant Urantia Church" , and ofcourse " Catholic Urantia Church"
It hasn't even been a 100 years since the revelation and already conflicts that resulted in breaks already happened....
I don't want to sound too pessimistic, but , not a good sign brother ... :|


Yea we could dwell on the negatives but even the Catholic Church is described by TUB as a cacoon of something greater. The Supreme can work with any set of facts, those who have the eyes to see an amazing revelation are still there as light bearers amongst a confused crowd of readers. Readers of TUB don't really pay attention to this political stuff, its not really a big deal. The issue is IMO that so few people are using those cosmic intuitions. If we don't use those there will always be a lot of distortion no matter what we are doing. But that's what the book is here for, to help to enhance our ability to see reality.

_________________
StrongcharactersRnotderivedfromnotdoingwrongbutratherfrom
actuallydoingrightUnselfishnesisthebadgeofhumangreatnes
Thehighestlevelsofselfrealizationareatainedbyworshipandservice
Thehapyandefectivepersonismotivatednotbyfearofwrongdoingbutby
loveofrightdoing


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lwatkins wrote:
Just one point to make here: "This means that anyone can simply alter the book as they please, isn't that right " Yes, certainly anyone can and it's been done -- The Aquarian Concepts Community and Gabriel of Urantia are an example. But who cares? The Bible can also be altered... who'd pay any attention? Copyright is a valuable tool for human authors earning money from their work. The Urantia Book is not a money-maker and its authors aren't human.

Larry

Larry, it is true, it does not matter to us who already read, believed, and are trying to follow the Book's teachings, but what about the others?
The authors aren't human, but the HUMANS that could alter it, could easily attribute it to CELESTIAL sources...
Just contemplate the Qur'an; It claimed that Gabriel inspired it to Mohammad, Even though the fruits of such a religion are as plain as day, reflect on the formidable number of followers...

I have heard a lot of people saying that one of the reasons that helped them believing in the book is it's authenticity, it's clear reasoning, authority, it's un-human-likeness , etc...

I am not saying now!
I am imagining 100 years from now, when the roots and origins of the original copy could have long been jeopardized, who's to say there won't be an "Urantia Book according to the Fellowship" - "UB according to the Foundation" - "UB according to the Gospol of the Truthbook movement" etc.. ; you see where I am going with this ?
Why not learn from the history of the predecessors, of those who carried the Fourth Epochal Revelation; Why shouldn't we be aware as not to fall trap to the same well meaning but perhaps Unforeseeing decisions?

I agree that Copyright is a double edged sword, if wielded by unwise authoritative figures , but nonetheless, it is a very essential tool to preserving perhaps the ONLY really valid completely CELESTIAL text that is present now on Urantia. It is that Important. The UB is the only Truly Celestial Literature available now on the face of the planet.

Brother Larry , you asked " who cares?"..
I bet the ones who wrote it do...

I bet The one who died on this sphere trying to save it does...

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9:5.7 Too often, all too often, you mar your minds by insincerity and sear them with unrighteousness;


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fanofVan wrote:
Hello kicoverz!! The split between the Fellowship and the Foundation was over one primary issue: the Fellowship would not recognize the very centralized "control" mechanism you describe with the Foundation controlling the concentric circles as trademark and book title and sole publishing rights of the UB. It was an acrimonious mess driven by strong personalities on both sides, most of whom are not in leadership on either "side" of this old, old argument. I was a strong Fellowship advocate and activist. My "side" won the battle. Then came the onslaught of channeling, claiming many supporters in the Fellowship. I soon departed losing the war - liberty won and instantly lost....a confusing paradox for an outcome to me.

The Fellowship is attempting to be the "big tent" and has no specific policy in favor of or banning channeling activities at their events or study groups - which is not to suggest that all, most, or even many Fellowship members participate, endorse, or accept channeling. It's quite a sticky issue for them. They hope to bring unity without uniformity but are having trouble managing the potential in trying to be everything to everybody. I have many dear friends who remain loyal to this organization and don't wish any to misunderstand my position - noble idealism on 2 sides found no resolution in the middle at the time, that's all. But....people die and their grudges with them.

My belief is that all the strife and turmoil, like the Nebadon rebellion, has already born fruit and was well timed to bring important evolutionary experience to the "survivors" and those to come who will carry Michael's banner forward. Those who remained loyal to the Foundation's mission and vision formed into the Urantia Association International to partner directly with the Foundation's publication mandate to provide the mechanism of volunteer activists engaged in dissemination and in respect of the Foundation's text publishing and preservation authority. Currently, the Foundation and UAI together, and the Fellowship, are working quietly and with good intentions to mend some fences, build some bridges, and find ways to work together to further unify the movement's corps into new forms of cooperation. It will take more time yet and total reunification may never happen. Many have membership in both the Fellowship and UAI and support the Foundation.

The movement is now, as always, in the hands of Revelation believers, scholars, and students - not any organization with any meaningful authority or control. Like the gospel. Except this one came in print which will help thwart distortion and revision and worse. The original text is available for comparison. The Foundation formed a very respected team of scholars to note every edit from the original and makes this public and annotated in the downloaded form and online text in 2007 (I think). So is it that "he who is not for us is against us OR he who is not against us is for us?" I have no idea. But there are many stewards loyal to the Revelation and living its truths as best we know how. It is not what we're against that matters so much as what we stand FOR. Peace.

Here's a link to The Study Group Guide from the Association. Hope you like it.

http://urantia-uai.org/study-groups/study-group-guide/


Hey FoV,
I read an article posted on squarecircles.com that shed a clear light on why the division happened in the first place.
I read this article
http://www.squarecircles.com/UrantiaMovementHistory/sprunger.htm
an excerpt from it is
Quote:
III. Freedom from Legalistic Power Control and the Growing Dominance of Cooperative Team Work

In the l960’s Martin Myers was invited to move in with Dr. Sadler and Christy to help with chores and activities of the Foundation and Brotherhood offices. Following Dr. Sadler’s death, Martin increasingly took over leadership influence at the Chicago office. In some ways Christy became a captive of this situation and at times discussed it with me. She felt there was little she could do about it; however, she did prevent Martin from quitting his bank job to take over formal direction of the headquarters offices as he wished to do.

As Martin Myers’ influence increased, he was soon elected as a trustee of the Foundation. As a result, legalistic thinking and legal counsel began to direct Foundation activities. Legal minds devised a method through the registered marks to control the entire movement. Under Martin’s direction the Foundation became increasingly autocratic. On Several occasions he implied or directly threatened to take away the service marks from the Brotherhood if they did not follow his advice. Over a period of years he became the center of controversy. Finally, in l989 three Foundation trustees resigned and two professional office administrators handed in their resignations because they could not work with him and maintain their spiritual integrity.

During this same period the Executive Committee of Urantia Brotherhood informed Martin that they would no longer tolerate his autocracy. After a series of exchanges in which the Brotherhood refused to follow his directives, Martin took away their license to use the service marks and terminated their office lease at 533 Diversey Parkway.

This action brought about the advent of the Fellowship of Readers of The Urantia Book and finally freed the Urantia movement from legalistic and authoritarian control. It is highly unlikely that the Urantia movement will ever again be shackled by legalism and autocratic domination.


I have yet a lot of material regarding the History of the Movement to read, but ,I think the above summarizes what lead to the separation, and I have to say , it really surprised me that instead of creating a group of administrators instead of ONE chief to rule all, they simply decided to break off and create their own movement.

I am not judging, like I said, I have yet a lot to learn about the matter, but , It is really surprising that a group of people who have access to paper 72 of the revelation which clearly shows how to run a successful government and administrative system resorted to such a solution instead of maybe creating a body of administrators who take their decisions based on votes like in a democracy instead of handing it to ONE person, to a KING.
Of course it would get to his head and his judgment will be impaired, it's a huge responsibility to bear alone.

Anyway, I am not criticizing or denouncing any honest effort, I am sure that all of the efforts at the dissemination are all pure in heart, after all, the book I had was from the Fellowship and not the Foundation, I am not taking sides here, I am not concerned with level headed persons , but fanatics do concern me, and underestimating them is but a mere sign of our own immaturity.

The fruits that are born by all these major websites are obviously clear.

There's the state of "Foundation" , and the state of "Fellowship" , the state of " truthbook" , the state of " squarecircles" , etc..
why aren't we creating the United States of the UB ? instead of creating separate states that all mean well at the moment, in the hands of the fathers, but what about the sons, and the grandsons... will they share the same ideals, or will one of them start a disagreement that will start the real separation?

Quote:
... So is it that "he who is not for us is against us OR he who is not against us is for us?" I have no idea. But there are many stewards loyal to the Revelation and living its truths as best we know how. It is not what we're against that matters so much as what we stand FOR. Peace.


True words brother,
all I know is I stand against no one, and that I only stand for TRUE UNITY.

If I could, I would tell the Leaders of all those major websites, " Don't tell me what the UB says, SHOW ME"

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Mark,
9:5.7 Too often, all too often, you mar your minds by insincerity and sear them with unrighteousness;


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Hi Mark,

Let's say that 100 years from now a wealthy person comes up the the scheme of publishing an altered version of The Urantia Book and so prints 100,000 copies of "The Urantia Revelation Interpreted by Bob." By then there are more than a million copies in circulation certified as being true to the original 1955 text as it was received from the revelators. Who's interested in Bob's version? I presume the only people currently interested in Gabriel of Urantia's version of TUB are the people living in his community and that's not a particularly large readership. The Urantia Book is not a money-maker; there's no economic reason to print an altered version other than for ego gratification or to foist a hoax. I presume that anyone seeking revelation will prefer a non-hoax rendition.

Larry


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Yea we could dwell on the negatives but even the Catholic Church is described by TUB as a cacoon of something greater. The Supreme can work with any set of facts, those who have the eyes to see an amazing revelation are still there as light bearers amongst a confused crowd of readers. Readers of TUB don't really pay attention to this political stuff, its not really a big deal. The issue is IMO that so few people are using those cosmic intuitions. If we don't use those there will always be a lot of distortion no matter what we are doing. But that's what the book is here for, to help to enhance our ability to see reality


Brother..
Maybe to those who are already in the kingdom it is not a big deal, but what about the rest...
Jesus tells us, to Love, to serve, to obey the teaching..
Do we love Jesus ? then are we to take care of his sheep..

If it wasn't for the "political stuff" , Truthbook wouldn't have existed, I wouldn't have had a book, we wouldn't be talking right now;
All these amazing materialistic tools that are within our hands were created because of readers who decided to DO something about it, they started the forum, the organization , the translation , the printing, the study groups, the search engine, the index, the topical studies, the Ub news, ALL OF IT

Boom, what does your vision of reality show you regarding this issue ? What are the cosmic intuitions really telling you? that readers don't pay attention to political stuff !?
Maybe..
But that is if they are only interested in becoming disciples for it, but what about the ones who want to be apostles ? what about Chris Halvorson, do you think he is an Apostle or a Disciple? What about the Foundation and the Fellowship whose efforts made it possible that you have a copy of the book within your hands !?

What about you ? what if you were meant for something more than a reader and believer? what if you were asked to lead a community of readers in Canada in the future ? Would you be interested in the political stuff then !?

Yes, the catholic church is a cocoon, and if this revelation is to spread as Christianity spread , it's going to need ministers, teachers, centers, etc...
and each organization needs organizers, you can't run a company without and administration, we only need reflect on the administration of our local universe to learn that...
Jesus is a politician, just reflect on that ... :wink:
God Bless,

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9:5.7 Too often, all too often, you mar your minds by insincerity and sear them with unrighteousness;


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lwatkins wrote:
Hi Mark,

Let's say that 100 years from now a wealthy person comes up the the scheme of publishing an altered version of The Urantia Book and so prints 100,000 copies of "The Urantia Revelation Interpreted by Bob." By then there are more than a million copies in circulation certified as being true to the original 1955 text as it was received from the revelators. Who's interested in Bob's version? I presume the only people currently interested in Gabriel of Urantia's version of TUB are the people living in his community and that's not a particularly large readership. The Urantia Book is not a money-maker; there's no economic reason to print an altered version other than for ego gratification or to foist a hoax. I presume that anyone seeking revelation will prefer a non-hoax rendition.

Larry

Agreed!
Although...
Islam started with Mohammad, and his nephew ALI, those were the only believers in Islam at the time in a place called "QURAISH" (a very small city next to Mekkah)
that was almost 1600 years ago.
look where we are now :)

I am not saying that people aren't more critical now, even at this time not everyone who reads the UB believes in it, criticisms will always be there, and now at this information age more than ever.
but,
All I am saying is, it would be a real shame to lose the authenticity of this book because of some disagreement that could really be sorted out in so many ways.

Unfortunately , wealth equals power, and so, a wealthy man could easily make it look like his version is the true version with much advertising, basing movies on it, super packaging, centers everywhere, famous trusted publisher, articles on the TIMES, etc...and with enough effort, even alter the history of its making and even make it look like the Foundation's copy is the Altered one..who knows, it really is possible.

If he treats it like a business, it could be done rather easily...

But that is not a tangent that I want to expound on, it is a simple example to facilitate looking at the major picture.

But that is a good point,
Money is a dangerous tool if not used wisely, and if handed to ONE man . However, if handed to an Organization of several people ,It is most likely that they can find solutions as to how to handle it while avoiding internal corruption and theft.

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9:5.7 Too often, all too often, you mar your minds by insincerity and sear them with unrighteousness;


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Quote:
Brother..
Maybe to those who are already in the kingdom it is not a big deal, but what about the rest...
Jesus tells us, to Love, to serve, to obey the teaching..
Do we love Jesus ? then are we to take care of his sheep..

If it wasn't for the "political stuff" , Truthbook wouldn't have existed, I wouldn't have had a book, we wouldn't be talking right now;
All these amazing materialistic tools that are within our hands were created because of readers who decided to DO something about it, they started the forum, the organization , the translation , the printing, the study groups, the search engine, the index, the topical studies, the Ub news, ALL OF IT

Boom, what does your vision of reality show you regarding this issue ? What are the cosmic intuitions really telling you? that readers don't pay attention to political stuff !?
Maybe..
But that is if they are only interested in becoming disciples for it, but what about the ones who want to be apostles ? what about Chris Halvorson, do you think he is an Apostle or a Disciple? What about the Foundation and the Fellowship whose efforts made it possible that you have a copy of the book within your hands !?

What about you ? what if you were meant for something more than a reader and believer? what if you were asked to lead a community of readers in Canada in the future ? Would you be interested in the political stuff then !?

Yes, the catholic church is a cocoon, and if this revelation is to spread as Christianity spread , it's going to need ministers, teachers, centers, etc...
and each organization needs organizers, you can't run a company without and administration, we only need reflect on the administration of our local universe to learn that...
Jesus is a politician, just reflect on that ... :wink:
God Bless,


Well you can be an apostle without getting involved in the fellowship or foundation. You don't have to pay any attention to them. There is only a handful of people who make up those foundations. So really we are talking about like 40 people here (not sure of the exact numbers). These people do not actually declare themselves as Urantia Book experts. Its not like they are pretending to be religious leaders, or Urantia leaders. IMO they are pretty harmless people. Its the people who teach TUB and tell others that they are Urantia Book leaders that I think have the potential to do a lot of good work or do harm. There is a lot of "blind leading the blind" situations. But I always take Jesus advice and "fear not". Its part of the confusion of giving an advanced revelation to mankind. I don't judge others. I can only love them and help them out with the confusion. So what looks like a bad thing is actually an opportunity for true apostles. We can go where it is dark and shine our light where there is confusion. The darker the place you find yourself the brighter the light is because of the contrast. I would say Chris is definitely a apostle. There are a lot of people in those foundations who are warming up to Chris by the way. I know a couple in there who really like him.

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StrongcharactersRnotderivedfromnotdoingwrongbutratherfrom
actuallydoingrightUnselfishnesisthebadgeofhumangreatnes
Thehighestlevelsofselfrealizationareatainedbyworshipandservice
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boomshuka wrote:
There is only a handful of people who make up those foundations. So really we are talking about like 40 people here (not sure of the exact numbers). These people do not actually declare themselves as Urantia Book experts. Its not like they are pretending to be religious leaders, or Urantia leaders. IMO they are pretty harmless people.


Harmless as doves I think but not yet, perhaps, as wise as the serpent. As to #s - I can attest that the number of members is over ten thousand in the Fellowship and Urantia Association International and friends of the Foundation, thousands donate money every year, and hundreds are faithful volunteers serving as study group hosts, conference presenters and hosts, service committee members, elected leaders, etc. The movement has never been so large by number or experience. And then there are the dozens or hundreds of other UB centered ministries finding traction in the world of the www.

My experience is that most are very serious religionists and lead by service and example, not by authority or doctrine. There are many workers in the fields of love and revelation dissemination...most are very dedicated to the growing "student" body of the Revelation, all faith believers, and all who seek truth, beauty, and goodness. It is always encouraging to me to remember who's in charge of our world and its progress and destiny. Our mortal errors by righteous intent are the lemons that the celestials turn into divine lemonade - eventually. A mortal life is far to short a time to measure progress except by the mortal life itself. All is well. Fear not. Life is but a day's work, be glad and be anxious for nothing. Or so we are taught.

Authority now comes by group consensus and common purpose and that will unite many diverse religionists in the future. Today's Urantia movement is a growing force of activist consensus working together in many shared ministries of service to students, believers, and truth seekers. But it is quite human after all. We do what we can, we do what we must, each according to our understanding.


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