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Hal wrote:
… Speaking of floating, the body was floating in air when the image was made, and the shroud was held tight away from the body, as recent research reveals. The scientist call the event, a singularity: the creation of a new universe.
Hi Hal, I understood that academia agree that the Turin shroud is a medieval forgery.. :)


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Bart wrote:
Hal wrote:
… Speaking of floating, the body was floating in air when the image was made, and the shroud was held tight away from the body, as recent research reveals. The scientist call the event, a singularity: the creation of a new universe.
Hi Hal, I understood that academia agree that the Turin shroud is a medieval forgery.. :)


Actually, the Shroud of Turin has only been carbon dated once, so the study that concluded that it was a medieval forgery was never replicated. Secondly, the Shroud was damaged by a fire centuries ago and then restored. Many experts have questioned the validity of the carbon tests that were done because they didn't take into account how that fire would have changed the chemical composition of the sample, and the fact that newer threads were woven into the Shroud in order to restore it after the damage had been done. If the sample had been taken from a different section of the shroud, the result may have been much different.

I recommend reading the UBtheNews article on this matter:

http://www.ubthenews.com/topics/ShroudTurin.htm

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Well, thank you Yoder! :) I didn’t know about these results. They were/are immaterial in the news and on internet.. But I agree that if the so called Sudarium of Oviedo indeed matches the Turin Shroud, then it would be a very intriguing coincidence. Also, this Human (X-ray) Radiation Model ( http://www.ubthenews.net/topics/documen ... esting.pdf ) appears to be a very interesting theory which might be compatible with TUB’s account of Jesus’ resurrection. And of course, the carbon-14 dating of the Shroud can be wrong..

Nevertheless, I agree with the final conclusion in the UBtheNews article: "It is fair to conjecture that the willingness to be interested in these things has more spiritual value than simply being given answers. [But] learning about the life of Jesus from The Urantia Book is infinitely more valuable than trying to solve and being opinionate about the mysteries related to the Shroud of Turin." ( http://www.ubthenews.com/topics/ShroudTurin.htm ) O:)


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I am open to the possibility that the Shroud is a medieval forgery, but then I would want to know how the X-ray-like image was imprinted on the Shroud in the first place.

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Hi Yoder, I was (more or less) joking earlier.. :) And I agree that the shroud appears (somewhat) like an X-ray image of a human body ..
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........................................Image.....Image


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I have always assumed that the Shroud of Turin was the actual shroud used for Jesus. As far as the carbon dating goes, the shroud was repaired by nuns after a fire, and the fibers were taken from the area that was repaired when it was carbon dated. Why they didn't think to take fiber from another corner just in case I don't know. In the Urantia Book it says that the midwayers were given permission to greatly speed up the decomposition process, I'm guessing the heat from that might have caused a carmelization of the fibers of the shroud, creating something like a negative image. Also, we have to remember that the face on the shroud would be somewhat inaccurate. We would need 3D imaging to take into account that the image wouldn't have come from a flat surface in order to get a more accurate idea of what Jesus' face looked like.


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Yoder777 wrote:
The height of Jesus in the Shroud of Turin is the same height as the space that was cut out for him in the Garden Tomb. Can this be just a coincidence?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En52t7zhjcY

Yes it Can :smile:

But I am really wondering!

If indeed with time the shroud was undoubtedly unmistakably proven to be belonging to Jesus himself. What would that change ? Will the atheist believe...

I admit , that it is edifying to solve puzzles presented by existence, but I am very interested in knowing how will this knowledge benefit your spiritual upbringing brother Yoder!

Please mistake not my intent, I do not mean to sound critical, but I am inquisitive , I am very much interested in knowing what is your drive , and what are you really seeking for?

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One of the most important things we need to ask ourselves about the Shroud is whether its face even looks like a first-century Palestinian Jew. According to historical resonstruction, based on the actual skull of a Jewish man in Jesus' place and time period, this is what Jesus may have looked like:

Image

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2-0jU2-m6I

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Yoder777 wrote:
One of the most important things we need to ask ourselves about the Shroud is whether its face even looks like a first-century Palestinian Jew. According to historical resonstruction, based on the actual skull of a Jewish man in Jesus' place and time period, this is what Jesus may have looked like:
Yoder, In light of all available and apparently quite compelling evidence that the shroud is indeed authentic (see, e.g., http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WRB16BARvz0), tell me why should we compare its facial features to some forensic reconstruction of a totally arbitrary first-century Palestinian face? Are you serious??

And why this particular facial expression? I understand the aim was to reconstruct the face of Jesus based on the features of a random 2000 year old Jewish skull. But - apart from the absurdity of the whole idea - the end result is a rather ugly face, that looks either startled or stupid. Why do you think this is what Jesus may have looked like..? :-s


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I don't know about startled or stupid. This is another version of it:
Image

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Yoder777 wrote:
I don't know about startled or stupid. This is another version of it:
Well, you really disappoint me Yoder. Post as many versions of it as you like, but that will not make the whole idea less absurd. And take it from me, the face looks startled or stupid. And your earlier notion that one of the most important things we need to ask ourselves about the shroud of Turin would be whether it looks like this face :?:, is totally ridiculous.


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From a scientific perspective, what is wrong with using the skull of a first-century Palestinian Jew to estimate what Jesus would have looked like?

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From a scientific perspective, what makes this "one of the most important things to ask about the shroud"? Could you please answer that question? What makes you think that any random first century Palestinian skull would resemble Jesus’ skull? It’s absurd. Ask any forensic scientist. And facial expressions cannot be derived from a skull, so why do you think anyone would create a stupid looking face from an arbitrary skull and claim it looks like Jesus’ face?

Really, Yoder, for or a moment there I thought you intended to seriously discuss the Turin shroud. But you’re just a troll. Very disappointing..


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Hey!??? Just because you don't like the facial expression of a historical reconstruction doesn't mean that it lacks any value. No one ever claimed it was an exact representation.

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Remember that Mary and Joseph had slightly different ancestors than the typical Jew. So facial features would be somewhat different than the typical Jew.

Ubthenews has a interesting article, I am not really sure how to interpret it.

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