Urantia Book Forum

Urantia Book Discussion Board : Study Group
It is currently Fri Nov 15, 2019 2:35 pm +0000

All times are UTC - 7 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 177 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 12  Next
Author Message
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:22 pm +0000
Posts: 771
The Urantia Book speaks favorably of a future world government, but one that respects human rights and is under the authority of God. When conspiracy theorists like David Icke speak of the New World Order, they are talking about a one world government under what Christians have traditionally called the Antichrist.

Is the Urantia Book's hope for a benign one world government antithetical to the possibility that before this new world comes, there will be a false world government in line with the devil? I don't believe that we should automatically regard everyone who calls for a one world government as a man of peace.

_________________
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:09 am +0000
Posts: 722
Location: Jacksonville, FL
I believe that at this point in our civilization, people will never tolerate evil to rule our world. A world government that may arise at this point in time will only be a good one, one that respects human rights, one that will serve the good for majority, one that will solve the increasingly global problems.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:22 pm +0000
Posts: 771
YSMAEL wrote:
A world government that may arise at this point in time will only be a good one, one that respects human rights, one that will serve the good for majority, one that will solve the increasingly global problems.


How can you be so sure of this? Of course, an evil world government would come in the name of good. Even Satan is an angel of light. The evils of Hitler and Stalin were not that long ago.

_________________
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


Last edited by Yoder777 on Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:06 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:10 am +0000
Posts: 1945
Just some relevant quotes here :) ..
Quote:
70:12.5 Urantia mortals are entitled to liberty; they should create their systems of government; they should adopt their constitutions or other charters of civil authority and administrative procedure. And having done this, they should select their most competent and worthy fellows as chief executives. For representatives in the legislative branch they should elect only those who are qualified intellectually and morally to fulfill such sacred responsibilities. As judges of their high and supreme tribunals only those who are endowed with natural ability and who have been made wise by replete experience should be chosen.

70:12.6 If men would maintain their freedom, they must, after having chosen their charter of liberty, provide for its wise, intelligent, and fearless interpretation to the end that there may be prevented:

1. Usurpation of unwarranted power by either the executive or legislative branches.
2. Machinations of ignorant and superstitious agitators.
3. Retardation of scientific progress.
4. Stalemate of the dominance of mediocrity.
5. Domination by vicious minorities.
6. Control by ambitious and clever would-be dictators.
7. Disastrous disruption of panics.
8. Exploitation by the unscrupulous.
9. Taxation enslavement of the citizenry by the state.
10. Failure of social and economic fairness.
11. Union of church and state.
12. Loss of personal liberty.

70:12.20 Mankind’s struggle to perfect government on Urantia has to do with perfecting channels of administration, with adapting them to ever-changing current needs, with improving power distribution within government, and then with selecting such administrative leaders as are truly wise. While there is a divine and ideal form of government, such cannot be revealed but must be slowly and laboriously discovered by the men and women of each planet throughout the universes of time and space.


71:0.1 THE state is a useful evolution of civilization; it represents society’s net gain from the ravages and sufferings of war. Even statecraft is merely the accumulated technique for adjusting the competitive contest of force between the struggling tribes and nations.

71:0.2 The modern state is the institution which survived in the long struggle for group power. Superior power eventually prevailed, and it produced a creature of fact — the state — together with the moral myth of the absolute obligation of the citizen to live and die for the state. But the state is not of divine genesis; it was not even produced by volitionally intelligent human action; it is purely an evolutionary institution and was wholly automatic in origin.


134:5.12 Peace will not come to Urantia until every so-called sovereign nation surrenders its power to make war into the hands of a representative government of all mankind. Political sovereignty is innate with the peoples of the world. When all the peoples of Urantia create a world government, they have the right and the power to make such a government SOVEREIGN; and when such a representative or democratic world power controls the world’s land, air, and naval forces, peace on earth and good will among men can prevail — but not until then.

134:6.9 World peace cannot be maintained by treaties, diplomacy, foreign policies, alliances, balances of power, or any other type of makeshift juggling with the sovereignties of nationalism. World law must come into being and must be enforced by world government — the sovereignty of all mankind.

134:6.10 The individual will enjoy far more liberty under world government. Today, the citizens of the great powers are taxed, regulated, and controlled almost oppressively, and much of this present interference with individual liberties will vanish when the national governments are willing to trustee their sovereignty as regards international affairs into the hands of global government.

134:6.11 Under global government the national groups will be afforded a real opportunity to realize and enjoy the personal liberties of genuine democracy. The fallacy of self-determination will be ended. With global regulation of money and trade will come the new era of world-wide peace. Soon may a global language evolve, and there will be at least some hope of sometime having a global religion — or religions with a global viewpoint.


178:1.9 So long as the rulers of earthly governments seek to exercise the authority of religious dictators, you who believe this gospel can expect only trouble, persecution, and even death. But the very light which you bear to the world, and even the very manner in which you will suffer and die for this gospel of the kingdom, will, in themselves, eventually enlighten the whole world and result in the gradual divorcement of politics and religion. The persistent preaching of this gospel of the kingdom will some day bring to all nations a new and unbelievable liberation, intellectual freedom, and religious liberty.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:22 pm +0000
Posts: 771
I think you are missing my real and basic point: There is a difference between what the Urantia Book calls for and what the New World Order is purportedly planning. One is a world government based on good and the other is a world government based on evil. Nowhere does the Urantia Book say that the transition into this mankind government will be a smooth one. There will be many workings of the evil one along the way. As I said, not everyone who claims to be for a one world government is necessarily in favor of what the Urantia Book teaches should happen.

_________________
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Online

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3914
Yoder777 wrote:
Is the Urantia Book's hope for a benign one world government antithetical to the possibility that before this new world comes, there will be a false world government in line with the devil? I don't believe that we should automatically regard everyone who calls for a one world government as a man of peace.


Hey Yoder!! I agree. But slavery is better than canabilism and genocide. Progression by evolution is one inferioriority replaced by another, less inferior, inferiority. The list Bart provided would indicate we're many decades, even centuries, from the form of idealized world government presented in our future (an inevitablility according to TUB). Prior to that, we may see many forms of regionalizations and global economic cooperatives. We will see a new global currency within a generation (an arbitraged unit for the world market purchases of energy and commodities and trade - not a world exchange currency for citizens) which will be the next step - that following the world bank and free trade agreements, etc. The political failures of the United Nations will be supplanted by global economic co-dependence and cooperation.

The greatest enemies of world government (in any form) will be the most powerful soveriegn nations, especially the U.S. and China and the Christian church members who cling to the false but the powerful armageddonist doctrines and the anti-christ fears. Your question would indicate your belief or sympathy for this false doctrine. Satan is NOT an angel of light but a sad, powerless, and demented rebel who has no power here known as Lucifer. And Caligastia is a nearly toothless and lonely wanderer awaiting his just desserts while the Most Highs rule here and do so most effectively. There will be no anti-christ or satanic world order or not if one believes the UB.

You seem also to basically misunderstand the term "evil". Evil is but error. So, of course, all evolutionary progressions of every kind are "based on evil". Tial and error. Mistakes and corrections. Poor priorities or poor strategies. Unintended consequences and corrective responses. Satan is not evil - he is corrupt, sinful, and iniquitous.

But your original question is certainly fair enough. Many progressive steps in evolution are required prior to the realization of the ideal. We may have several forms of planetary governmental prior to that which may lead to light and life. But you can rest assured, it will come no matter how long it takes.

Jesus teaches us about evil and sin and our place in God's hands as His children:

4. Evil, Sin, and Iniquity
(1659.8) 148:4.1 It was the habit of Jesus two evenings each week to hold special converse with individuals who desired to talk with him, in a certain secluded and sheltered corner of the Zebedee garden. At one of these evening conversations in private Thomas asked the Master this question: “Why is it necessary for men to be born of the spirit in order to enter the kingdom? Is rebirth necessary to escape the control of the evil one? Master, what is evil?” When Jesus heard these questions, he said to Thomas:

(1660.1) 148:4.2 “Do not make the mistake of confusing evil with the evil one, more correctly the iniquitous one. He whom you call the evil one is the son of self-love, the high administrator who knowingly went into deliberate rebellion against the rule of my Father and his loyal Sons. But I have already vanquished these sinful rebels. Make clear in your mind these different attitudes toward the Father and his universe. Never forget these laws of relation to the Father’s will:

(1660.2) 148:4.3 “Evil is the unconscious or unintended transgression of the divine law, the Father’s will. Evil is likewise the measure of the imperfectness of obedience to the Father’s will.

(1660.3) 148:4.4 “Sin is the conscious, knowing, and deliberate transgression of the divine law, the Father’s will. Sin is the measure of unwillingness to be divinely led and spiritually directed.

(1660.4) 148:4.5 “Iniquity is the willful, determined, and persistent transgression of the divine law, the Father’s will. Iniquity is the measure of the continued rejection of the Father’s loving plan of personality survival and the Sons’ merciful ministry of salvation.
(1660.5) 148:4.6 “By nature, before the rebirth of the spirit, mortal man is subject to inherent evil tendencies, but such natural imperfections of behavior are neither sin nor iniquity. Mortal man is just beginning his long ascent to the perfection of the Father in Paradise. To be imperfect or partial in natural endowment is not sinful. Man is indeed subject to evil, but he is in no sense the child of the evil one unless he has knowingly and deliberately chosen the paths of sin and the life of iniquity. Evil is inherent in the natural order of this world, but sin is an attitude of conscious rebellion which was brought to this world by those who fell from spiritual light into gross darkness.

(1660.6) 148:4.7 “You are confused, Thomas, by the doctrines of the Greeks and the errors of the Persians. You do not understand the relationships of evil and sin because you view mankind as beginning on earth with a perfect Adam and rapidly degenerating, through sin, to man’s present deplorable estate. But why do you refuse to comprehend the meaning of the record which discloses how Cain, the son of Adam, went over into the land of Nod and there got himself a wife? And why do you refuse to interpret the meaning of the record which portrays the sons of God finding wives for themselves among the daughters of men?

(1660.7) 148:4.8 “Men are, indeed, by nature evil, but not necessarily sinful. The new birth — the baptism of the spirit — is essential to deliverance from evil and necessary for entrance into the kingdom of heaven, but none of this detracts from the fact that man is the son of God. Neither does this inherent presence of potential evil mean that man is in some mysterious way estranged from the Father in heaven so that, as an alien, foreigner, or stepchild, he must in some manner seek for legal adoption by the Father. All such notions are born, first, of your misunderstanding of the Father and, second, of your ignorance of the origin, nature, and destiny of man.

(1660.8) 148:4.9 “The Greeks and others have taught you that man is descending from godly perfection steadily down toward oblivion or destruction; I have come to show that man, by entrance into the kingdom, is ascending certainly and surely up to God and divine perfection. Any being who in any manner falls short of the divine and spiritual ideals of the eternal Father’s will is potentially evil, but such beings are in no sense sinful, much less iniquitous.

(1661.1) 148:4.10 “Thomas, have you not read about this in the Scriptures, where it is written: ‘You are the children of the Lord your God.’ ‘I will be his Father and he shall be my son.’ ‘I have chosen him to be my son — I will be his Father.’ ‘Bring my sons from far and my daughters from the ends of the earth; even every one who is called by my name, for I have created them for my glory.’ ‘You are the sons of the living God.’ ‘They who have the spirit of God are indeed the sons of God.’ While there is a material part of the human father in the natural child, there is a spiritual part of the heavenly Father in every faith son of the kingdom.”


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:22 pm +0000
Posts: 771
"Even Satan is an angel of light" or "Even Lucifer is an angel of light" is a quote from the Bible. Demons are fallen angels who pretend to be good.

_________________
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Online

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3914
They're not pretending any more!! :wink:

35:2.2 The Melchizedeks are a self-governing order. With this unique group we encounter the first attempt at self-determination on the part of local universe beings and observe the highest type of true self-government. These Sons organize their own machinery for their group and home-planet administration, as well as that for the six associated spheres and their tributary worlds. And it should be recorded that they have never abused their prerogatives; not once throughout all the superuniverse of Orvonton have these Melchizedek Sons ever betrayed their trust. They are the hope of every universe group which aspires to self-government; they are the pattern and the teachers of self-government to all the spheres of Nebadon. All orders of intelligent beings, superiors from above and subordinates from below, are wholehearted in their praise of the government of the Melchizedeks.

Me here: The ideal based on the reality pattern is going to take us some time. We'll all be looonnngggg gone!!

(1086.4) 99:1.1 Mechanical inventions and the dissemination of knowledge are modifying civilization; certain economic adjustments and social changes are imperative if cultural disaster is to be avoided. This new and oncoming social order will not settle down complacently for a millennium. The human race must become reconciled to a procession of changes, adjustments, and readjustments. Mankind is on the march toward a new and unrevealed planetary destiny.

(1086.5) 99:1.2 Religion must become a forceful influence for moral stability and spiritual progression functioning dynamically in the midst of these ever-changing conditions and never-ending economic adjustments.

(1086.6) 99:1.3 Urantia society can never hope to settle down as in past ages. The social ship has steamed out of the sheltered bays of established tradition and has begun its cruise upon the high seas of evolutionary destiny; and the soul of man, as never before in the world’s history, needs carefully to scrutinize its charts of morality and painstakingly to observe the compass of religious guidance. The paramount mission of religion as a social influence is to stabilize the ideals of mankind during these dangerous times of transition from one phase of civilization to another, from one level of culture to another.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Online

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3914
In case you missed this: And Jesus said: "(1660.1) 148:4.2 “Do not make the mistake of confusing evil with the evil one, more correctly the iniquitous one. He whom you call the evil one is the son of self-love, the high administrator who knowingly went into deliberate rebellion against the rule of my Father and his loyal Sons. But I have already vanquished these sinful rebels.

(1661.4) 148:5.2 “Nathaniel, you and many others are thus perplexed because you do not comprehend how the natural order of this world has been so many times upset by the sinful adventures of certain rebellious traitors to the Father’s will. And I have come to make a beginning of setting these things in order. But many ages will be required to restore this part of the universe to former paths and thus release the children of men from the extra burdens of sin and rebellion. The presence of evil alone is sufficient test for the ascension of man — sin is not essential to survival.

(1661.5) 148:5.3 “But, my son, you should know that the Father does not purposely afflict his children. Man brings down upon himself unnecessary affliction as a result of his persistent refusal to walk in the better ways of the divine will. Affliction is potential in evil, but much of it has been produced by sin and iniquity. Many unusual events have transpired on this world, and it is not strange that all thinking men should be perplexed by the scenes of suffering and affliction which they witness. But of one thing you may be sure: The Father does not send affliction as an arbitrary punishment for wrongdoing. The imperfections and handicaps of evil are inherent; the penalties of sin are inevitable; the destroying consequences of iniquity are inexorable. Man should not blame God for those afflictions which are the natural result of the life which he chooses to live; neither should man complain of those experiences which are a part of life as it is lived on this world. It is the Father’s will that mortal man should work persistently and consistently toward the betterment of his estate on earth. Intelligent application would enable man to overcome much of his earthly misery.

(1662.1) 148:5.4 “Nathaniel, it is our mission to help men solve their spiritual problems and in this way to quicken their minds so that they may be the better prepared and inspired to go about solving their manifold material problems. I know of your confusion as you have read the Scriptures. All too often there has prevailed a tendency to ascribe to God the responsibility for everything which ignorant man fails to understand. The Father is not personally responsible for all you may fail to comprehend. Do not doubt the love of the Father just because some just and wise law of his ordaining chances to afflict you because you have innocently or deliberately transgressed such a divine ordinance.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:22 pm +0000
Posts: 771
Are you implying that the Urantia Book teaches that the devil, Satan, Lucifer, Caligastia, or whatever you want to call it, no longer has influence over the affairs of this world? All one needs to do is turn on the evening news to see otherwise.

_________________
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Online

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3914
What I have to say is of little consequence and even less value Yoder. This is truthbook and the Revelation speaks much and clearly on this topic. Humanity suffers for our individual and collective unwise choices. There are consequences to choices. We are taught it is very primitive and ignorant and vain to blame anyone else (the devil made me do it) for our own errors. We are given free will and time to discover the better way. Better choices equal better outcomes. This is pretty fundamental....reaping what is sown is a universal understanding of every religion known to humankind. How is it you do not acknowledge it?

The war in heaven is over and it only occurred in a very small corner. The iniquitous one and his cronies never had a chance. And they are in isolation and powerless. It is true that Caligastia still roams this world and without power except with those who ask him in and give him power. There are several discussions here about him and his abilities to affect us still. But rule? No. Control? No. Contend with the Most High? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Surely you jest! We have discussed karma before. The universal law of reciprocity. Motives, intentions, priorities, choices, actions - all lead to reciprocal results. A universal law of cause and effect.

Do you propose that the effects we suffer are to be blamed on "the devil"?? Surely you jest still!! Since this is a Urantia Book study group site, perhaps you could offer some UB text or perspective to support such notions? Have you read about the rebellion? Do you know what happened at Pentecost? Have you studied the Mortal Epochs yet? Your question is well addressed in the UB...if one were to read it or believe what it teaches. Looking forward to others' participation in this most interesting topic of how in the heck do we get to light and life from here? Such a life on such a planet! 8)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:22 pm +0000
Posts: 771
fanofVan wrote:
It is true that Caligastia still roams this world and without power except with those who ask him in and give him power.


What you might not be aware of is that the very same people who are part of this so-called New World Order are also inviting the influence of Caligastia by their worship of him.

_________________
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:10 am +0000
Posts: 1945
Yoder777 wrote:
I think you are missing my real and basic point: There is a difference between what the Urantia Book calls for and what the New World Order is purportedly planning. One is a world government based on good and the other is a world government based on evil.
What exactly is this evil New World Order purportedly planning? And who plans it? The Illuminaty? The Free Masons? The Rothschilds? The Wallstreet Bankers? The FED? The NSA? The US Government? The Chinese? What evil world government do you see?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 5:22 pm +0000
Posts: 771
Bart wrote:
Yoder777 wrote:
I think you are missing my real and basic point: There is a difference between what the Urantia Book calls for and what the New World Order is purportedly planning. One is a world government based on good and the other is a world government based on evil.
What exactly is this evil New World Order purportedly planning? And who plans it? The Illuminaty? The Free Masons? The Rothschilds? The Wallstreet Bankers? The FED? The NSA? The US Government? The Chinese? What evil world government do you see?


Have you watched Thrive? It was recommended by Byron Belitsos on Coast to Coast AM.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEV5AFFcZ-s

Its spiritual teachings are similar to the Urantia Book.

_________________
We are not human beings having a spiritual experience; we are spiritual beings having a human experience. -
Teilhard de Chardin


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted:  
Online

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 3914
I'm a Freemason and it's not us...or at least I haven't got my conspiracy orders yet. :roll: We're still trying to hold onto our last two "takeovers" or rebellions....the American and French revolutions. It seems that once you free people to their own free will, they keep screwing it up. Or maybe it's the devil? Conspiracy theories are another form of the devil made me do it. I have no control, we have no control, we cannot choose better, it doesn't matter what we choose, etc., etc., etc. :roll: All blame of others is self absolution and in error and in denial of truth and reality. We're going to have to learn to take the responsibility for outcomes that is inherently imbedded in free will choice. A gift of Father. Why keep denying this precious gift? 8) We are what we choose. We have what we choose. If you choose conspiracy and victimization then don't be surprised by what you receive by such choices.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 177 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 12  Next

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Registered users: fanofVan


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group