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loucol wrote:
graybear13 wrote:
(+) charge is space-time expanding and (-) charge is a contraction phase.


Hi gray,
Are you sure it is not the other way around? Expanding (-) charge, contraction (+) charge? If you feel differently let my know your reasoning and we'll discuss it.

I always thought of charge as polarity. Polarity arrises from an imbalance of motion across an equator. Whether that be a bar magnet, an electron, or the planet.

Regards, Louis


"...there is also present in and among these basic physical units a powerful and unknown energy, the secret of their basic construction and ultimate behavior, a force which remains to be discovered on Urantia." 42:8.1

"...The charged protons and uncharged neutrons of the nucleus of the atom are held together by the reciprocating function of the mesotron, a particle 180 times as heavy as the electron." 42:8.3

"...the positive proton, characteristic of the atomic nucleus, while it may be no larger than a negative electron, weighs almost two thousand times more." 42:6.7

The creation of linear gravity and a collapsing cloud of ultimatons is the negative charge. Electrons are embedded in this process and get most of the credit for the negative charge but it is the overall condensation of ultimatons in the system that create the negative effect. The gravitational condensation of ultimatons has to equal the number of ultimatons held in the nucleus, say 2 protons. For this system to balance I would think that somewhere around 380,000 ultimatons must be under the influence of the yet to be discovered force spoken of in TUB. 42:8.1

The positive charge is the energy exploding from the protons and their interaction with neutrons.

Magnetism has a similar effect of attraction and repulsion but this is due to spin, not contraction and expansion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wR7c4iXum-A
Magnet Vortex Revelation by Magnetflipper

regards, gray


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Hi gray,

graybear13 wrote:
The positive charge is the energy exploding from the protons and their interaction with neutrons.

Magnetism has a similar effect of attraction and repulsion but this is due to spin, not contraction and expansion.


I would intuitively think exploding energy is radiative. The particle is loosing energy and becoming less massive. Conversely, a particle absorbing energy is becoming more massive and is being charged and regenerated.

As far as magnetism goes. I believe it has been greatly misunderstood. Take a bar magnet. It has a north pole and a south pole as arbitrarily assigned. They are oppositely charged. We have been told that like charges repel and opposite charges attract. If this were true than the charges would neutralize at the center of the bar magnet, and they do not. We have been told that the electron and the proton attract one another for the same reason. Something is very wrong here.

graybear13 wrote:
"...the positive proton, characteristic of the atomic nucleus, while it may be no larger than a negative electron, weighs almost two thousand times more." 42:6.7


This is the one statement from this section in TUB that made me flip. TUB uses much of our known science of 1934 but leaves open clues to tell us we have something wrong. These are in the form of subtle clues. Remember we must earn our knowledge and they are very careful not to reveal what we are capable of discovering on our own.

That said, I think this quote from TUB is telling us that our atomic theory is wrong. The proton weighs two thousand times more than an electron but they are the same size! What!?

From this clue I came up with the idea the they are one and the same particle along with the neutron and mesotron.

One particle that spins as it expands and contract (spiral motion) just as the motions of space do. The neutron is when the particle is at its most compact and is highest in density. The electron phase of the same particle is the expanding phase as the particle radiates energy and loses mass. We know that science tells us that the electron is the particle that emits light. At full expansion there is no more space to expand and the same particle reflects into contraction. In this phase of the spinning particle energy is absorbed and the particle gains mass. When the mass of the particle reaches saturation at unity, it momentarily becomes uncharged, then explodes to again begin a new cycle. By unity I mean that energy/mass ratio is one.

Density of the particle is least at full expansion and that mass difference at full expansion and full contraction is on the order of 2000. The electron and the proton are of equal size because in the whole, they are the same particle with differing functions as they expand, contract and spin.

Spin does not produce the 'wave field', it is the oscillating dimensions that produce the field. One particle, three distinct phases with oscillating densities and varying energy-mass ratios governed by the motions of space-time. E=mc^2 in continuous flux with rates determined by the velocity of light squares. This I have derived for you to read:

E^2 / M^2 = space-time

Space-time is the same as saying space/time because space is orthogonal to time.

Space is hyper-cubic, 4 dimensional and moving in spiral fashion (space motions) in an accelerated acceleration (t^3), three dimensional time.

This type of accelerated acceleration is logarithmic. All motion is logarithmic and spiral. The ellipse is a symmetric logarithmic spiral.

Therefore, this is consistent with TUB contention that space-time is 7 dimensional.

Regards, Louis


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Hi Tigran

tigran wrote:
the main equations thereof cannot at present be solved using the existing mathematics (what is lacking is the non-linear functional analysis and non-local variational calculus). So, the mathematics itself has to be extended to allow one to investigate the "real properties of light".


Permit me to respectfully caution you about your work on neo-mathematical approaches to the problem.

Yes, there is nothing linear in nature but there are very few curves to contend with. Circles, ellipses, and hyperbolas.

Space is hyperbolic (hyper-cubic) and only one of infinite hyperbolas is at play, the curve y=1/x.

Time is circular, three dimensional and orthogonal to the hyperbola. There is only one circle.

There are infinite ellipses. The infinite ellipse is symmetrical and logarithmic. Place a catenary to any ellipse on the wall and you can match the curve precisely. The catenary is a logarithmic curve.

I know that I have not convinced you that the derivative of nl(x) is not 1/x. But consider that the derivative of y=e^(x) is the same curve. And the fact the y=nl(x) is the inverse of y=e^(x), its mirror image across the identity y=x. Neither curve ever straightens out no matter how many time you differentiate it. You still get the same curve. These are the curves of motion, symmetric and self-existent. Motion cannot be rectified.

The calculus and all subsequent math is calculated on a background of absolute space that does not move. This changes everything. No time can be legitimately implied on such an absolute background. If space is motionless and absolute there cannot be a time variable and you cannot describe motion with any math using this cartesian coordinate system. The use of (t) for time in an equation is then forbidden. It cannot be a variable. Newton's time is absolute, eternity. Einstein' time is relative but reversible and linear. This is a non-starter.

Conclusion: the calculus cannot be descriptive of motion. Time is quantitized, therefor, motion is quantitized. Every point on the ellipse is an instant. Time is an succession of instants. Motion is what happens between points and that is a fixed radius until the next point. Then the radius jumps in a quantum fashion to give a new radius of curvature. The ellipse appears to a continuous curve of changing curvature but this actually occurs in minute quantum jumps in radius of curvature. Please analyze the Phi spiral as the radius jumps at each 90 deg of rotation. This is an easy visual and shows what is happening at each tangent of the spiral and the 'box' of the rectangles.

Regards, Louis


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Hear this and understand, all of you, my brothers and sisters.

The millennia of orthodox mathematics and physics were NOT IN VAIN. (It is odd, in my youth I "dedicated" myself to the preservation and development of the Bible but, behold, I became the destroyer of the myths and the lies thereof. Then, recently, I applied myself to the replacement of orthodox science and now, behold, I find myself a defender thereof :)

There is a kind of Principle of Fairness which I am going to describe, which excuses the rather high-worded heading sentence of this post. Namely, this...

The gods designed the Universe in a very fair manner for us mortals to explore. I intuitively feel it very strongly and will attempt to put it into words. Forgive the imperfection of my words, as I dare to reach for something almost holy...

For example, there is something fundamentally similar between the behaviour of space (in its relation to matter) and the behaviour of liquids. Every time you wave your hand in front of you while immersed in a swimming pool you observe a replica of something wonderful and almost mysterious that happens when any material body is moving through space. But "space" as such is not amenable to our direct manipulation and so we can't "see" the real version of it. But water is, and we can learn much about space and matter by observing some "simple" properties of objects moving through water.

And I believe this is done by design of the higher beings. This is what I called "fairness". They want us to know them, their wonderful and beautiful creations in "high spheres", but they know that our frame is dust and that it is confined to these "low spheres" of the finite level of reality. So, they provided "toy models" of "high" in the "low". Maybe this is the basis of the esoteric principle "as above so below".

This, in essence, is what I refer to as the Principle of Fairness. It is what stimulates my curiosity and study of such mundane things as hydrodynamics, kinetic theory, Quantum Mechanics, General Relativity, Functional Analysis, etc etc. Yes, these are very incomplete, inaccurate "toys", but they have been put there for a good reason by beings who love us and want us to grow. No one can climb on "high" before mastering the "low".

PS. A JOKE: Imagine myself waving hands in the swimming pool and then suddenly jumping out of it and running about the streets in the swimming trunks shouting "Eureka, Eureka!" :)

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Hi Tigran,

tigran wrote:
The millennia of orthodox mathematics and physics were NOT IN VAIN. (It is odd, in my youth I "dedicated" myself to the preservation and development of the Bible but, behold, I became the destroyer of the myths and the lies thereof. Then, recently, I applied myself to the replacement of orthodox science and now, behold, I find myself a defender thereof


I agree that the last millennia of science and math are not without tremendous merit. But consider the task of TUB in revelation and correction of errors without providing unearned knowledge. The problem as I see it has been the violation of the scientific method. Theories are to be falsified by observation and experimentation, and if they survive, they do become, not a fact beyond dispute, but merely a good theory. Good theories can also fall in time. But if we create giants and emperors and stand on their shoulders, well, we fall as they fall and we look just as naked if they are in their undies.


42:9.4 But not all the suppositions of natural philosophy are valid; for example, the hypothetical ether, which represents an ingenious attempt of man to unify his ignorance of space phenomena. The philosophy of the universe cannot be predicated on the observations of so-called science. If such a metamorphosis could not be seen, a scientist would be inclined to deny the possibility of developing a butterfly out of a caterpillar.

In my opinion, the greatest of all scientific revelations of TUB is the motions of space and therefore, the non-absolutness of space. TUB clearly states that space in NOT an unbounded cube. What is the Cartesian coordinate graph then? Yes, an unbounded cube. And this was in 1934. In 2011 the Nobel Prize in Physic was given to Saul Perlmutter et al. for discovering the accelerated expansion of universe space. We are slowly catching up.

We know that Newton and Einstein were not privy to this knowledge but we are now. Space that moves cannot be an unbounded cube and cannot be absolute. The question remains: When will the mathematics community abandon an absolute and unmoving Cartesian graph? An ordered pair or coordinate (x,y) is given as position is space. How silly. The x-y plane is an infinite plane. There is no position in infinity. There is no distance or time or motion in infinity. The unbounded cube that is three intersecting infinite planes orthogonally arranged cannot denote position, velocity or time. Projections from these infinite planes, really one infinite plane, will allow motion as space becomes bounded. Consider that a 4th dimension is required to bound a cubic. Transcendental dimensions are required to place a bounded cubic in motion, space-time.

In my opinion, the metaphysical confusion that TUB mentions is due to the fact that a straight line on this graph cannot be anything but infinite. But you will say that the distance between to points on the graph can be measured and is finite. No! The graph is absolute and time implied on the graph is also absolute. TUB tells us that the absolute of time is eternity. I would take an eternity to traverse a distance from point A to point B. That distance is infinite! How then can the infinitesimal of the calculus still survive and thrive. There has been no acknowledgement of moving space in mathematics. This is more than outrageous, it criminally negligent.

Can everyone see that this foundation of false metaphysics corrupted the works of Descartes, Newton and all who stood on their shoulders? This and the greatest cheat of all mathematics by falsely proving that the integral of 1/x is nl(x), and conversely, that the derivative of nl(x) is 1/x.

Energy is emitted and absorbed in quanta because time and motion are quantized. TUB States that time is succession of instants. Time is circular simultaneity. What terrific revelations! Time is governed by a so called transcendental number, ∏. Motion is governed by another transcendental number, e. The expansion and contraction of space is governed by φ (phi), yet another transcendental number. These three undefined numbers are all related and have been shown in the most famous equation of all time, excluding E=Mc^2.

Euler's Formula: e^(i)∏ + 1 = 0

My modification of this identity shows the three transcendentals e^(i)∏ + ϕ^2 + ϕ = 0

ϕ^2 + ϕ = 1, Where ϕ is.618... or, φ-1. φ is the golden ratio.

Please take note that this formula tells us that a 3 dimensional unbounded cubic is bounded by the 4th dimension.

Let me explain. e^(i)∏ + 1 =0. Time governed by ∏ bounds motion. Now substitute 3 for e and 4 for ∏. Do the math. 3^4(i) + 1 = 0 !!! The 4th dimension orthogonal to, (i), the unbounded cubic bounds space and makes it a box. The box expands and contract in time as it rotates.

My conclusion here is that dimensions are not whole numbers but undefined transcendental numbers. We can never arrive at an exact calculated solution, only a rough approximation. Realizing this, we can move on to using computations where these numbers can be taken to the nth digit, arriving at as close of an approximation as we require. We were never able to put an orbital in space until the supercomputer, and still, these orbit decay in time.

tigran wrote:
And I believe this is done by design of the higher beings. This is what I called "fairness".


The design is perfect for the infinite and the finite. I am not sure that design has anything to do with fairness. Design has to be perfect, not necessarily fair. Although the universe is ultimately fair, we are called to perfection. What is fair is that we are provided with the capabilities of achieving perfection to some degree and we can aspire to an eternity of discovery.

Regards, Louis


Last edited by loucol on Sat Nov 08, 2014 6:55 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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loucol wrote:
Hi gray,

graybear13 wrote:
The positive charge is the energy exploding from the protons and their interaction with neutrons.

Magnetism has a similar effect of attraction and repulsion but this is due to spin, not contraction and expansion.


I would intuitively think exploding energy is radiative. The particle is loosing energy and becoming less massive. Conversely, a particle absorbing energy is becoming more massive and is being charged and regenerated.

As far as magnetism goes. I believe it has been greatly misunderstood. Take a bar magnet. It has a north pole and a south pole as arbitrarily assigned. They are oppositely charged. We have been told that like charges repel and opposite charges attract. If this were true than the charges would neutralize at the center of the bar magnet, and they do not. We have been told that the electron and the proton attract one another for the same reason. Something is very wrong here.

graybear13 wrote:
"...the positive proton, characteristic of the atomic nucleus, while it may be no larger than a negative electron, weighs almost two thousand times more." 42:6.7


This is the one statement from this section in TUB that made me flip. TUB uses much of our known science of 1934 but leaves open clues to tell us we have something wrong. These are in the form of subtle clues. Remember we must earn our knowledge and they are very careful not to reveal what we are capable of discovering on our own.

That said, I think this quote from TUB is telling us that our atomic theory is wrong. The proton weighs two thousand times more than an electron but they are the same size! What!?


Hi Louis, I'm not explaining this very well, sorry.

If you give this concept a ponder and just try to visualize, with geometric shapes, how two black holes can join at their tips and create the nucleus of an atom,a mesotron and all of the stored energy inside, you will see how creation works.

The structure of the genesis effect/creation is two black holes of ultimatons connecting at their tips and pushing against each others impetus toward a singularity. At this point it is the same as magnetism, no plus or minus only spin. If the black holes are spinning in the same direction they attract, opposite spin they repel. Did you see the end of the video showing a magnet submerged in water and given a charge? Opposite spin will connect these black holes and create a nucleus with protons and neutrons and also collapsing concentric spheres of energy (the mesotron) moving energy to the nucleus. Electrons are clusters of ultimatons created by the joining together of the two black holes and the formation of the mesotron; they ride these spheres inside the mesotron and jump between different radius spheres enhancing the condensation and storage of energy in the protons and neutrons inside the nucleus of the atom.

When the protons and neutrons are fully functioning and energy is being given off the amount of energy that is going out (plus charge) is equal to the amount of energy that has been going in all along (negative charge). The fact that almost 400,000 ultimatons have been squeezed into two protons show the dynamic force power of creation.

The black holes create linear gravity which is what maintains the equilibrium of the system by pulling in ultimatons.

regards, gray


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Hi Gray,

I think that my problem in conceptualizing your idea has to do with what defines a black hole. BTW, Hawkins himself now states that there may not be black holes or singularities. It was a mathematical theory and new mathematics coming out of UNC also disputes the existence of black holes, at least mathematically.


42:1.2 Matter—energy—for they are but diverse manifestations of the same cosmic reality, as a universe phenomenon is inherent in the Universal Father. “In him all things consist.” Matter may appear to manifest inherent energy and to exhibit self-contained powers, but the lines of gravity involved in the energies concerned in all these physical phenomena are derived from, and are dependent on, Paradise. The ultimaton, the first measurable form of energy, has Paradise as its nucleus.

Paradise is at the very center of the ultimaton. I do not see two black holes, just one singular materialization of Absolutum, which is of infinite density and potential and can be, in a way, considered an absolute black hole. But there is but one Paradise, and it is at the center of all things.

I do not think that there are 400,000 ultimatons in a proton. TUB says that 100 ultimatons aggregate to form an electron. An electronic unit consists of just 100 ultimatons. The proton is but the same electronic unit spinning 2000 times faster in angular inertial spin in its contracted phase when it has absorbed the necessary energy to increase its mass. This proton is just a more energetic electron due to the increase in spin from absorbed energy.

Paradise, and therefore, the Universal Father is continually creating and recreating and upholding every unit of measurable energy. Condensation and storage of energy is due to the lines of absolute gravity dependent on Paradise. Gravity is the sole control of energy-matter.

Unassociated ultimatons are unresponsive to linear gravity, only responding to the absolute gravity pull of Paradise. Ultimatons are not capable of polarization. Linear gravity begins to exert influence at the electronic phase of matter.

A nucleus (Paradise) is not created, the nucleus is the One that creates by projecting motion (energy matter) and controlling it with gravity.

Magnetism is not a field like a controlling gravitational field. It is a consequence of moving particles in a gravitational field. These electronic particles move to balance motion across equators of spinning matter aggregations such a planets and bar magnets. Motions cannot readily cross equatorial planes and one example is cyclones not crossing the equator. The motion are counter rotational across these planes. They must bow out into space following gravity lines (circles) and appearing as a magnetic field. They are just particles of matter following the path of least resistance across hemispheres.

Linear gravity is not a spherical field such as absolute Paradise gravity. Linear gravity is a field such as the Apollonian circles that act preferentially in the plane perpendicular to mass. A rotating electron particle has polarity and this polarity 'decentralizes' the 'center' of gravity and brings the inertial mass to the poles of the spinning spheroid. 'Think gyroscope' as a toy model of this. Absolute gravity maintains the motions of spin and expansion and contraction, while these motions generate the linear gravity of inter-electronic attraction.

42:6.6 Ultimatons do not describe orbits or whirl about in circuits within the electrons, but they do spread or cluster in accordance with their axial revolutionary velocities, thus determining the differential electronic dimensions. This same ultimatonic velocity of axial revolution also determines the negative or positive reactions of the several types of electronic units. The entire segregation and grouping of electronic matter, together with the electric differentiation of negative and positive bodies of energy-matter, result from these various functions of the component ultimatonic interassociation.

It is quite telling that the 100 component ultimatonic interassociations all relate to a single particle that has differential dimensions determined by the axial revolutionary velocities of the ultimatons. And these same axial revolutions of the same 100 ultimatons determine the negative or positive reaction of the several types of electronic units. In my opinion, this is telling us the electrons, protons, neutrons and mesotrons are different types of the same electronic unit, depending on the inertial mass and polarity of the spinning particle made up of 100 ultimatons.

Regards, Louis


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Rajan C Mathew wrote:
Do you feel this question valid ?

Do you have any answers ?

Is it due to the nefarious activities of the invisible forces of Caligastia still roaming free here on earth ?


Hi Rajan,

Yes I think it is a very compelling question. Thank you. 8)

Almost everyone has their own perspective. All of the religions of the world think they have it figured out and don't need to do the work of changing. We will have to come at them with much more than just a book. It is the same with the sciences, it will take more than just some bits and pieces of a new paradigm to force a new perspective. We have an opportunity to prove, mathematically and experimentally, the construct of the yet to be discovered force spoken of in TUB (42:8.1) . This will take a lot of work and many deep ponders by all of us to make it happen. I wouldn't want to stand before the master and explain why I didn't do everything in power to understand creation and reach for the perspective of the heart, the perspective of paradise.

I heard a story about an anthropologist who brought a pygmy out of the dense jungle where he had lived his entire life and put him on an open plane. They observed an elephant in the distance walking toward them. As the elephant came closer and closer it appeared larger and larger. The pygmy thought that the elephant was blowing up and expanding, like a balloon because he had no perspective of something at a distance. In the jungle there is no such thing as seeing something at a distance.

Caligastia's influence on human evolution seems obvious to me. Just a whisper here and a nudge there and bad choices abound. Direct contact is unnecessary.

In my view those of us who see truth in TUB are obligated to sacrifice and work hard to understand the new paradigm and not just sit back and be happy for ourselves while Caligastia's influence continues to plague mankind. It is up to us to do the work of changing. "If you had not been told then you would be without sin."

regards, gray


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We have an opportunity to prove, mathematically and experimentally, the construct of the yet to be discovered force spoken of in TUB (42:8.1)


42:8.1 While gravity is one of several factors concerned in holding together a tiny atomic energy system, there is also present in and among these basic physical units a powerful and unknown energy, the secret of their basic constitution and ultimate behavior, a force which remains to be discovered on Urantia. This universal influence permeates all the space embraced within this tiny energy organization.

42:8.5 The presence and function of the mesotron also explains another atomic riddle. When atoms perform radioactively, they emit far more energy than would be expected. This excess of radiation is derived from the breaking up of the mesotron “energy carrier,” which thereby becomes a mere electron. The mesotronic disintegration is also accompanied by the emission of certain small uncharged particles.

42:8.6 The mesotron explains certain cohesive properties of the atomic nucleus, but it does not account for the cohesion of proton to proton nor for the adhesion of neutron to neutron. The paradoxical and powerful force of atomic cohesive integrity is a form of energy as yet undiscovered on Urantia.


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Caligastia's influence on human evolution seems obvious to me. Just a whisper here and a nudge there and bad choices abound. Direct contact is unnecessary.

In my view those of us who see truth in TUB are obligated to sacrifice and work hard to understand the new paradigm and not just sit back and be happy for ourselves while Caligastia's influence continues to plague mankind. It is up to us to do the work of changing. "If you had not been told then you would be without sin."


Thank you, Gray. I agree with you.

Rajan.

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