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boomshuka wrote:
kahanyah wrote:
boomshuka wrote:
It's not fair to say "I know (insert name) will never choose god on the mansion worlds because they just don't care". That person is going to be using their soul in the next life and their literal body will be more responsive to spiritual reality. The animal self will be dead they will be a completely new being.



Aren't many of the animal tendencies of the literal body not overcome (they persist thus "survive") counter-parted by TA and superimposed onto the morontia body? From my understanding this is the "mark of the Beast" that lingers with us throughout our career on the mansion world. So while the morontia body is readily more responsive to spiritual gravity, also it is hindered by surviving, animal traits carried over to the morontial spheres. What are your thoughts on that?


Yea IMO there will still be animalistic habits, but it won't be any where as extreme as in this life. It would be like having the body of Adam and Eve vs our regular body. Their bodies are just sooooo much more in tune with the cosmos that its just worlds apart. Not to mention even our mind will be different we get a upgraded morontia mind and leave this animal one behind. So there is a ton of upgrades across the board.


what do you think of the idea that the morontia or non-material bodies of the order less that of spirit or one not having yet achieved fusion, that the mind housed in such has the greatest danger of succumbing to the sophistry of personal liberty?


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IMO it's like the old lesson of "with greater power comes greater responsibility". Certainly if you get on the mansion worlds and you tell your teachers that you think their methods are wrong, there is some SERIOUS danger there. You are basically out right rejecting gods plan for you in a very matter of fact way. I am sure there will be people who don't really accept the teachings wholeheartedly. But I think serious students of TUB who understand what the rebellion was all about will be able to have sort of a heads up so they can stop themselves. I think the majority of rational people will make the necessary connections to not follow the rebellion. But I don't think everyone will. There is probably going to be some people who are very stubborn and think they have a better way then gods way. In which case I don't think they will last long.

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Rsarmast wrote:
I have no idea what the numbers are, but the idea that the "overwhelming majority" will make it stands in stark contrast to what Christ taught:

166:3.3 "You also have another saying among you, and one that contains much truth: That the way which leads to eternal life is straight and narrow, that the door which leads thereto is likewise narrow so that, of those who seek salvation, few can find entrance through this door. You also have a teaching that the way which leads to destruction is broad, that the entrance thereto is wide, and that there are many who choose to go this way. And this proverb is not without its meaning. But I declare that salvation is first a matter of your personal choosing. Even if the door to the way of life is narrow, it is wide enough to admit all who sincerely seek to enter, for I am that door. And the Son will never refuse entrance to any child of the universe who, by faith, seeks to find the Father through the Son.

166:3.7 "And so, whether few or many are to be saved altogether depends on whether few or many will heed the invitation: “I am the door, I am the new and living way, and whosoever wills may enter to embark upon the endless truth-search for eternal life.”

Faith is the only requirement. How many have faith? Then that many will survive the earth test. If a person is sincere of purpose and honest of heart, and is righteous, then s/he is that way because s/he has already been saved. The one follows the other, not the other way around.

All one needs to be a "nice person" is to do good works. But works alone are not enough. Salvation comes by faith alone.

163:2.4 "...salvation is the reward of faith, not merely of works."

There's a prevalent air of "ease drifting souls." It is a disservice to teach that reaching the mansion worlds is something that's guaranteed to most everyone. It may seem like love, but in light of the fact that this teaching creates lethargy and complacency, it seems more like hate. This teaching actually does a disservice to those who know no better, since they may very well lose their chance at eternity because of it. I wouldn't call that love. Just foolish sentimentality that creates destruction. This is not what Christ taught; it's not what the UB teaches.

Faith and faith alone saves. Christ said it over and over. Faith in God. Not in fairy tales.

Bart wrote:
Rsarmast wrote:
... I've searched this book inside and out, first page to last. I've gone over it again and again; did exhaustive searches on the words "survival" etc. and read everything it has to say. I've yet to read a single passage that says the requirement for survival is being a nice person. And that's what we want to believe: that nice people will make it. But that's not what the revelation says. ...
I agree this is not literally stated in the revelation. But the book also doesn’t say anywhere that the majority of people won’t make it. On the contrary. Apart from stating very clearly that faith is the only requirement for salvation, TUB says that the "saving credit" of mercy cannot be exhausted if one is "sincere of purpose and honest of heart", which pretty much defines what you may call a nice person ..
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28:6.7 The Memory of Mercy must show that the saving credit established by the Sons of God has been fully and faithfully paid out in the loving ministry of the patient personalities of the Third Source and Center. But when mercy is exhausted, when the “memory” thereof testifies to its depletion, then does justice prevail and righteousness decree. For mercy is not to be thrust upon those who despise it; mercy is not a gift to be trampled under foot by the persistent rebels of time. Nevertheless, though mercy is thus precious and dearly bestowed, your individual drawing credits are always far in excess of your ability to exhaust the reserve if you are sincere of purpose and honest of heart.


All those quotes are true except Jesus never said you have to attain salvation in the human life in order to be saved. Salvation is still open to those on the lowest mansion worlds. You are putting a small time limit on when a mortal must choose salvation. This isn't a race where only the first to choose god are saved. God will wait until there is nothing left of survival value (I.e Soul death) until you are declared morally bankrupt and dead.

You are equating salvation to surviving mortal death. All those passages in TUB about survival are almost always talking about eternal survival, not surviving mortal death.

Before the universal bestowal of Adjusters however if someone didn't choose god and get an adjuster in the mortal life they could die without a soul, and therfor have nothing of survival value. The Ancient of Days would rather risk system rebellion then to deprive on struggling being the chance to make it.

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Last edited by boomshuka on Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:47 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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boomshuka wrote:
IMO it's like the old lesson of "with greater power comes greater responsibility". Certainly if you get on the mansion worlds and you tell your teachers that you think their methods are wrong, there is some SERIOUS danger there. You are basically out right rejecting gods plan for you in a very matter of fact way. I am sure there will be people who don't really accept the teachings wholeheartedly. But I think serious students of TUB who understand what the rebellion was all about will be able to have sort of a heads up so they can stop themselves. I think the majority of rational people will make the necessary connections to not follow the rebellion. But I don't think everyone will. There is probably going to be some people who are very stubborn and think they have a better way then gods way. In which case I don't think they will last long.


Scott, I hope you don't mind me picking your brain like this :smile: I have utmost respect for your grasp of TUB, plus you are my indirect link to Chris (I don't have the time to listen to his broadcast unfortunately).


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boomshuka wrote:
But I think serious students of TUB who understand what the rebellion was all about will be able to have sort of a heads up so they can stop themselves.


Do you think we will remember those finer details of our lives (e.g., narratives in TUB) when we transition over to the mansion world? Would TA counter-part those memories?


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Boomshuka, once we start to redefine common words and terms to have other meanings, and interpret language to mean something other than is accepted by the world at large, we start going down a very slipper slope.

The UB teaches that we have to pass certain tests in order to pass from this world to the mansion worlds. Those who are spiritually advanced move directly to the mansion worlds on the third day of their passing. Others must await the adjudication of their affairs, or else they must wait with the "sleeping survivors" for mass ascension at the end of an era - the epochal adjudication. The last group, who is deemed to be spiritually insolvent, never wakes up.

It's possible to still lose your way even after you reach the Mansion worlds and beyond, though that possibility decreases as you progress further inward.

This is what the UB teaches in simple language. It's not really up for debate. We must all decide whether we wish to bend our understanding to conform to the word of God, or if we prefer to bend the word of God to conform to our own sentiments. Many choose the latter, in all sorts of ways.

God save me from that mistake.


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Rsarmast wrote:
Boomshuka, once we start to redefine common words and terms to have other meanings, and interpret language to mean something other than is accepted by the world at large, we start going down a very slipper slope.

The UB teaches that we have to pass certain tests in order to pass from this world to the mansion worlds. Those who are spiritually advanced move directly to the mansion worlds on the third day of their passing. Others must await the adjudication of their affairs, or else they must wait with the "sleeping survivors" for mass ascension at the end of an era - the epochal adjudication. The last group, who is deemed to be spiritually insolvent, never wakes up.

It's possible to still lose your way even after you reach the Mansion worlds and beyond, though that possibility decreases as you progress further inward.

This is what the UB teaches in simple language. It's not really up for debate. We must all decide whether we wish to bend our understanding to conform to the world of God, or if we prefer to bend the word of God to conform to our own sentiments. Many choose the latter, in all sorts of ways.

God save me from that mistake.


Okay but where in TUB is salvation tied to surviving mortal death. Am I really twisting that? Or is eternal life tied to salvation, not mortal death....if you are assuming the word salvation is tied to our mortal death then I can see how you view this. But I don't see where the authors make that connection. Maybe life on the mansion world is a direct extension of this life....

Also the technical issue with those who don't wake up is centred on them being iniquitous. That is what a spiritually insolvent person is. I doubt there are to many iniquitous people. They literally cannot be reassembled because they do not have a soul. The judgment of these beings is just a "formality".

Is salvation tied to mortal death a "preconceived notion" or is it part of the revelation...? Just throwing that out there.

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Jesus' answers to the people of his day was not mean to be deceptive, or overly complex. Being "saved" meant, and still means, saved to make it to the next life. Some will, others won't. The ones that won't obviously weren't "saved." Don't get all caught up in what the meaning of "is" is. That's for lawyers - Christ spoke plainly. When people asked him what it took to be saved, they were talking about what happens immediately after this life. His answers addressed those questions directly - no more, no less.

Perhaps the word "survivor" would be better for you. Like "sleeping survivors." There's no shortage of direct correlation between that word and the end of this mortal life.

As far as being spiritually insolvent, the UB does not say that you have to be iniquitous to become spiritually insolvent. It says that you merely have to have rejected survival, and lost all desire to do the Father's will. You don't have to be iniquitous for that. That means that there are many "disAdjustered" people in the world who aren't necessarily evil people - they just don't want anything to do with God or his will.

boomshuka wrote:
Rsarmast wrote:
Boomshuka, once we start to redefine common words and terms to have other meanings, and interpret language to mean something other than is accepted by the world at large, we start going down a very slipper slope.

The UB teaches that we have to pass certain tests in order to pass from this world to the mansion worlds. Those who are spiritually advanced move directly to the mansion worlds on the third day of their passing. Others must await the adjudication of their affairs, or else they must wait with the "sleeping survivors" for mass ascension at the end of an era - the epochal adjudication. The last group, who is deemed to be spiritually insolvent, never wakes up.

It's possible to still lose your way even after you reach the Mansion worlds and beyond, though that possibility decreases as you progress further inward.

This is what the UB teaches in simple language. It's not really up for debate. We must all decide whether we wish to bend our understanding to conform to the world of God, or if we prefer to bend the word of God to conform to our own sentiments. Many choose the latter, in all sorts of ways.

God save me from that mistake.


Okay but where in TUB is salvation tied to surviving mortal death. Am I really twisting that? Or is eternal life tied to salvation, not mortal death....if you are assuming the word salvation is tied to our mortal death then I can see how you view this. But I don't see where the authors make that connection. Maybe life on the mansion world is a direct extension of this life....

Also the technical issue with those who don't wake up is centred on them being iniquitous. That is what a spiritually insolvent person is. I doubt there are to many iniquitous people.


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Perhaps, Rajan, that is another reason that the UB does not attract the youth. We're told that if Jesus was here today millions of young people would flock to him. But then he wouldn't be telling them that hey, don't worry, most everyone is going to make it to the next life.

If it were me, that would really slow me down. Why should I work hard, study, dedicate my life to altruistic causes, go out into this crazy world as a missionary of truth, when it really doesn't matter in the end anyway? After all, everyone's going to make it. So why not just relax, have fun, make money, and live the easy good life? It all seems like a natural train of thought.

Christ taught a difficult but exciting life, fraught with challenge and overcoming strong obstacles. That's attractive.

Telling people that there's no challenge, that it's a free for all. What a pitiful replacement.

No wonder.

Rajan C Mathew wrote:
Hi Robert ! What you wrote seems to be very relevant. Let me reproduce it once again:

Quote:
The only analogy that comes to mind is how a person can go to university, go to all the classes, buy all the books, stay there for years, and still fail. Other students may object to the teacher and say wait a minute, he was there at every class, he owns all the books, he's been with us all these years - how can he not graduate? He's a nice person. It's not fair! And the teacher says "yes he was in the class but he never listened; he owned all the books but he never studied; he was here all these years but he never learned. He did everything required of him except for the only thing that really mattered - learning and growing. How can he graduate and join the others who listened, studied and learned? How can he function in their environment when he doesn't know anything? He has failed and cannot proceed."

All of creation has been structured to do one thing: create an environment where mortals are encouraged to grow toward perfection. Everything for that purpose has been provided. You can do anything and everything, but do not neglect to do that one thing. We must leave this place having shown a desire to become better - to evolve. How can those who choose not to evolve join those who have already evolved and wish to continue to evolve?

Being nice is nice. But you can live a whole lifetime being nice and never wish to know God or be like Him. It seems hard to believe but it's true. I've seen it with my own eyes. You must show a desire to raise above the animal level, and the only thing that differentiates us from animals is the desire and the potential to know God and be like him.

It's hard to hear things like this for sentimental beings. My own parents have no desire at all. Never did. It makes me wonder if I'll even see them on the other side, and the feelings that creates shows me how sentimentality can get in the way of truth discernment. But I do value truth above all else, and I will not let my vision get clouded by sentimentality. I refuse to believe that what I consider love is greater than what the heavenly Father has deemed to be true love.

Heaven is reserved for those who want to know God - perfection - and become more like Him - Perfect. It's reserved for seekers.

How many? Who knows. Even though Pentecost forever changed things for the better here, we're yet told that in each generation, fewer people are seen to be able to function safely with their Adjusters, and that this is an alarming picture to the celestials. Alarming enough to send us the UB to foster the more spiritual types. Even the Pentecost was not enough to turn things around.

Maybe the sentimentality that pervades our generation is what has kept this community quiet for so long. People believe that hey, you know, everyone will make it anyway; no reason to become fanatical or worried. Just let it be and so forth.

Wrong. People will not make it unless they exhibit a desire to know God, even a small desire, but desire nonetheless. It's all over the quotes we've been discussing, as plain as day. But our sentimentality blinds us to even what's right in front of our nose.

I'd like to say that I wish it was otherwise. But that would be saying that I think I know better than God; that I know more about love than He does. I don't, and neither do any of you other mortals.

It's harder than people would like to believe.


"Everyone will make it anyway" was exactly one of the serious errors taught by the most advanced religion-the Sanatana Hinduism or Vedic Hinduism- made, according to the UB. IMO, this one aspect makes the Indians too lazy to be concerned with spiritual advancement, thought they are extremely religious (in their traditions, cultures, worship and religious legacies)

Yet, there is some truth in it and that has been explained by the UB now. And that makes sense.

One in my family, on the other hand, is too much against the concept of learning to perfection even after death. For this person, the concept of Hell and Heaven as conventionally taught is the acceptable one. Enough of this work and learning here ! And this attitude too reflects the inherent laziness towards attaining perfection. The desire is absent !

Thanks, Robert for highlighting this, though it may not be palatable to many.


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Perhaps, Rajan, that is another reason that the UB does not attract the youth. We're told that if Jesus was here today millions of young people would flock to him. But then he wouldn't be telling them that hey, don't worry, most everyone is going to make it to the next life.

If it were me, that would really slow me down. Why should I work hard, study, dedicate my life to altruistic causes, go out into this crazy world as a missionary of truth, when it really doesn't matter in the end anyway? After all, everyone's going to make it. So why not just relax, have fun, make money, and live the easy good life? It all seems like a natural train of thought.

Christ taught a difficult but exciting life, fraught with challenge and overcoming strong obstacles. That's attractive.

Telling people that there's no challenge, that it's a free for all. What a pitiful replacement.

No wonder.


You are saying that if you were told that many people would survive death it would slow you down?? I don't understand that. Wouldn't you be happy for all the people you have met in your life?? You make this sound like a competition, like you should be especially rewarded for sacrificing yourself. The Prodigal son who went away from the Father for a long long time and was granted back into the house is a good story, his brother slowed himself down when he found out how the Father allowed an evildoer back into the house so easily after he had worked his life for the kingdom. There is no prize for being the first to gain salvation, this is not a competition we are all brothers we should be happy for the more that make it into the kingdom of heaven and rejoicing for one another???

Salvation is Free, the notion that you have to sacrifice yourself for salvation is the olden concept that Jesus was trying to get rid of. There is no reward for sacrifice.

Anyways here is how T.U.B differs from the conventional belief that Salvation is survival of mortal death.
Quote:
6 - (54:5.3) 2. Supreme justice is dominated by a Father's love; therefore will justice never destroy that which mercy can save. Time to accept salvation is vouchsafed every evildoer.


Quote:
121:5.7.The mystery religions spelled the end of national beliefs and resulted in the birth of the numerous personal cults. The mysteries were many but were all characterized by:

121:5.8.1. Some mythical legend, a mystery—whence their name. As a rule this mystery pertained to the story of some god's life and death and return to life, as illustrated by the teachings of Mithraism, which, for a time, were contemporary with, and a competitor of, Paul's rising cult of Christianity.

121:5.9.2. The mysteries were nonnational and interracial. They were personal and fraternal, giving rise to religious brotherhoods and numerous sectarian societies.

121:5.10.3. They were, in their services, characterized by elaborate ceremonies of initiation and impressive sacraments of worship. Their secret rites and rituals were sometimes gruesome and revolting.

121:5.11.4. But no matter what the nature of their ceremonies or the degree of their excesses, these mysteries invariably promised their devotees salvation, "deliverance from evil, survival after death, and enduring life in blissful realms beyond this world of sorrow and slavery."

121:5.12.But do not make the mistake of confusing the teachings of Jesus with the mysteries.


Here is Jesus' salvation:

Quote:
101:6.8.The teachings of Jesus constituted the first Urantian religion which so fully embraced a harmonious co-ordination of knowledge, wisdom, faith, truth, and love as completely and simultaneously to provide temporal tranquillity, intellectual certainty, moral enlightenment, philosophic stability, ethical sensitivity, God-consciousness, and the positive assurance of personal survival. The faith of Jesus pointed the way to finality of human salvation, to the ultimate of mortal universe attainment, since it provided for:

101:6.9.1. Salvation from material fetters in the personal realization of sonship with God, who is spirit.

101:6.10.2. Salvation from intellectual bondage: man shall know the truth, and the truth shall set him free.

101:6.11.3. Salvation from spiritual blindness, the human realization of the fraternity of mortal beings and the morontian awareness of the brotherhood of all universe creatures; the service-discovery of spiritual reality and the ministry-revelation of the goodness of spirit values.

101:6.12.4. Salvation from incompleteness of self through the attainment of the spirit levels of the universe and through the eventual realization of the harmony of Havona and the perfection of Paradise.

101:6.13.5. Salvation from self, deliverance from the limitations of self-consciousness through the attainment of the cosmic levels of the Supreme mind and by co-ordination with the attainments of all other self-conscious beings.

101:6.14.6. Salvation from time, the achievement of an eternal life of unending progression in God-recognition and God-service.

101:6.15.7. Salvation from the finite, the perfected oneness with Deity in and through the Supreme by which the creature attempts the transcendental discovery of the Ultimate on the postfinaliter levels of the absonite.

101:6.16.Such a sevenfold salvation is the equivalent of the completeness and perfection of the realization of the ultimate experience of the Universal Father. And all this, in potential, is contained within the reality of the faith of the human experience of religion. And it can be so contained since the faith of Jesus was nourished by, and was revelatory of, even realities beyond the ultimate; the faith of Jesus approached the status of a universe absolute in so far as such is possible of manifestation in the evolving cosmos of time and space.


The Gospel of Jesus' is about eternal salvation.

Quote:
47 - (99:6.3) But as religion becomes institutionalized, its power for good is curtailed, while the possibilities for evil are greatly multiplied. The dangers of formalized religion are: fixation of beliefs and crystallization of sentiments; accumulation of vested interests with increase of secularization; tendency to standardize and fossilize truth; diversion of religion from the service of God to the service of the church; inclination of leaders to become administrators instead of ministers; tendency to form sects and competitive divisions; establishment of oppressive ecclesiastical authority; creation of the aristocratic "chosen-people" attitude; fostering of false and exaggerated ideas of sacredness; the routinizing of religion and the petrification of worship; tendency to venerate the past while ignoring present demands; failure to make up-to-date interpretations of religion; entanglement with functions of secular institutions; it creates the evil discrimination of religious castes; it becomes an intolerant judge of orthodoxy; it fails to hold the interest of adventurous youth and gradually loses the saving message of the gospel of eternal salvation.

Quote:
46 - (99:6.2) There is a real purpose in the socialization of religion. It is the purpose of group religious activities to dramatize the loyalties of religion; to magnify the lures of truth, beauty, and goodness; to foster the attractions of supreme values; to enhance the service of unselfish fellowship; to glorify the potentials of family life; to promote religious education; to provide wise counsel and spiritual guidance; and to encourage group worship. And all live religions encourage human friendship, conserve morality, promote neighborhood welfare, and facilitate the spread of the essential gospel of their respective messages of eternal salvation.



Quote:
93:4.8.2. You shall not doubt that faith is the only requirement for eternal salvation.

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54:4.2.Parents, those who have borne and reared children, are better able to understand why Michael, a Creator-father, might be slow to condemn and destroy his own Sons. Jesus' story of the prodigal son well illustrates how a loving father can long wait for the repentance of an erring child.

169:1.11."About this time, while they were celebrating, the elder son came in from his day's work in the field, and as he drew near the house, he heard the music and the dancing. And when he came up to the back door, he called out one of the servants and inquired as to the meaning of all this festivity. And then said the servant: 'Your long-lost brother has come home, and your father has killed the fatted calf to rejoice over his son's safe return. Come in that you also may greet your brother and receive him back into your father's house.'

169:1.12."But when the older brother heard this, he was so hurt and angry he would not go into the house. When his father heard of his resentment of the welcome of his younger brother, he went out to entreat him. But the older son would not yield to his father's persuasion. He answered his father, saying: 'Here these many years have I served you, never transgressing the least of your commands, and yet you never gave me even a kid that I might make merry with my friends. I have remained here to care for you all these years, and you never made rejoicing over my faithful service, but when this your son returns, having squandered your substance with harlots, you make haste to kill the fatted calf and make merry over him.'

169:1.13."Since this father truly loved both of his sons, he tried to reason with this older one: 'But, my son, you have all the while been with me, and all this which I have is yours. You could have had a kid at any time you had made friends to share your merriment. But it is only proper that you should now join with me in being glad and merry because of your brother's return. Think of it, my son, your brother was lost and is found; he has returned alive to us!'"

169:1.14.This was one of the most touching and effective of all the parables which Jesus ever presented to impress upon his hearers the Father's willingness to receive all who seek entrance into the kingdom of heaven.

169:1.15.Jesus was very partial to telling these three stories at the same time. He presented the story of the lost sheep to show that, when men unintentionally stray away from the path of life, the Father is mindful of such lost ones and goes out, with his Sons, the true shepherds of the flock, to seek the lost sheep. He then would recite the story of the coin lost in the house to illustrate how thorough is the divine searching for all who are confused, confounded, or otherwise spiritually blinded by the material cares and accumulations of life. And then he would launch forth into the telling of this parable of the lost son, the reception of the returning prodigal, to show how complete is the restoration of the lost son into his Father's house and heart.

169:1.16.Many, many times during his years of teaching, Jesus told and retold this story of the prodigal son. This parable and the story of the good Samaritan were his favorite means of teaching the love of the Father and the neighborliness of man.

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The option to be saved, it seems, is available after the soul has survived mortal death. And this would occur on the mansions when adjuster fusion is achieved or cosmic citizenship conferred. So moving on to the mansion world does not guarantee one has been saved. Or else how could we explain those lower orders of ascending mortals, who having attained the mansion world, yet threw their support behind the rebellion? IMO the "kingdom" one gains when saved is not referring to the mansion world. Rather it is referring 'Jerusem.' I would note that if adjuster fusion is achieved during the mansion sojourn then the person has been saved, literally.

"Salvation is not for those who are unwilling to pay the price of wholehearted dedication to doing my Father’s will. When in spirit and soul you have turned your backs upon the Father’s kingdom, it is useless in mind and body to stand before this door and knock, saying, ‘Lord, open to us; we would also be great in the kingdom.’ Then will I declare that you are not of my fold."


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Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 6:00 pm +0000
Posts: 697
Location: Savannah GA
It is my feelings that most will survive. Some think almost everyone will survive, some stray towards the straight and narrow.

But how can you think that God would deny survival to the MILLIONS who have not read the F.E.R? How about the millions who have rejected the Christianity of the 20th century due to the many obvious reasons to do so (I would go into detail but that those are subjects better reserved for Abner's). If the only face of religion a person is ever exposed to is blatantly a lie, or even worse a hateful lie (think Westboro here, or the flat earth gay haters), then I suspect God would be quite pleased with the intelligent rejection of such bigotry and backwardness. The people I know who have rejected religion have done so because the religions of authority of the twentieth century have forced them to do so. It was a matter of survival. And I believe that due to this reason and to so many others I believe that on a world like this, where organized religion is pretty much a nuthouse, a lot more will survive than some here claim.

But I'm still gonna wait until I'm dead.

And I pay very little attention to what others think. They are at least as nuts as I am. But what do I know :wink:


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Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:09 am +0000
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If the requirement for salvation is the desire to know God and be like him, what will happen to the atheists who were taught as children about a rampaging and murderous biblical God? If they forsake God and have no desire to be like him, would it be their fault?


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I don't see any reason why a mortal with a soul cannot be reassembled and given at least a few years to make a informed decision. What is the difference between a 80 year life plus 10 on the mansion worlds vs just a 80 year life here? Is god really that impatient that he needs us to prove ourself in such a short period? Or is willing to wait maybe 120 years of life before he starts his harvest? Mortals on other worlds have lives as long as 500 years. I don't think the rulers are so impatient as to cut short a mortals life when there is still a chance.

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