Urantia Book Forum

Urantia Book Discussion Board : Study Group
It is currently Wed Sep 30, 2020 12:45 pm +0000

All times are UTC - 7 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: New poster
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:16 am +0000
Posts: 95
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Hi all, just introducing myself. Actually I posted on here some years ago, but can't remember the old password or what my email at the time was. I've been reading the Urantia Book for about 7 1/2 years now. I've lurked around here a fair bit lately, and you seem really cool. It's great to see honest truth-seekers with real humility, and who are genuinely trying to support and encourage each other, not debate just for the fun of it, or respond out of defensiveness, insecurity or ego.

Just to give you a bit of a flavour for my take on things, here are some of the issues that have been on my mind over the last year or two. If there's interest in any of them, I may start a separate thread. But for now I guess it'll just be a brain dump.

I'm no scientist but I have worked with scientists and do have some interest in scientific things. As science relates to the Urantia Book, I'm mostly only interested in science when it appears to be in conflict with the book. Then a particular issue will sit in my brain like a niggle until I figure out how it can be resolved. Then I can relax again and get more from the book as a whole - with a clearer mind.

I notice the same effect with other apparent errors or inconsistencies in the book. A big one for me has been the Spirit of Truth coming at Pentecost 40 days after Passover. The stuff on the net about this didn't resolve it for me. I couldn't get past the fact that the text reads as though it is 40 days, on the same day as the Ascension of Jesus, but historically the Jews always celebrated Pentecost 50 days (or 51) after Passover. Then I discovered that the descriptions in the Torah of when to begin counting the 50 days never actually mention Passover - they are tied to the ripening of barley, which changes every year. Not to say that the Jews haven't always tied it to Passover - they have, but there is at least the basis of an alternate view among Jews. I now believe that Jesus supported such an alternative view, and in the year AD30 the 50 days began 10 days before Passover, and therefore ended on the day he Ascended - day 40. The first Christians called this day Pentecost, while the Jews would celebrate their Pentecost 10 days later. It turns out that the early church in Jerusalem celebrated Ascension and Pentecost on the same day. And there is documentation (Eusebius, a church historian, from memory) from the 3rd or 4th century referring to the Spirit coming the same day as the Ascension. There are clues in the bible that the Ascension and coming of the Spirit occurred on the same day too. It's interesting... to those who find this sort of thing interesting.

I've also been wondering a lot about supernatural stuff. The Urantia Book is quite clear, and plays down the likelihood of hearing the voice of the adjuster much in our lifetimes, and also really the likelihood of anything miraculous. It tells not to pray for healing, but instead emphasises that prayer changes the person praying. But the Urantia Book does confirm the New Testament account of Jesus' disciples being filled with power on the day of Pentecost. It just doesn't mention any miracles though. Should we assume that all the supposed miracles recorded in the New Testament never actually happened? Or can we allow, in consistency with the Urantia Book, that many did? And are they happening now, in parts of the world? None seem to be happening near me. Maybe I shouldn't be ruling them out just because I'm not there to see them. And I can't rule out supernatural power on the basis that the people claiming it have beliefs I don't agree with. God allowed power to be poured out on people who got the gospel message quite fundamentally wrong. Which is quite humbling. Not sure where I'm going with this. I just often wonder about the level of supernatural-ness in our lives, and whether we have the level right. I don't want to be a flakey spiritual type, seeing miracles where they don't exist, but I don't want to be a cynic either - if God is interested in doing interesting things, I want to be open to them.

And of course there is an enormous amount of value in our lives the way they are, even in the mundane. We're only beginning a long adventure, and the adjuster is subtlely leading us through challenges that are strengthening us for the future. It isn't all about the now. I read a cool bit in the Urantia Book the other day about getting a wider viewpoint - understanding more about the past and the future, and bringing them both to bear on the current moment, giving some freedom from the present. I think it was from Paper 118. Feeling a bit too lazy right now to look it up, sorry.

So, anyway, thanks for reading. Looking forward to getting to know you all a bit more. God bless.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: New poster
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 5:21 am +0000
Posts: 992
howdy kiwi2...never heard about the 50 day issue till now but found it interesting and have my own speculations (well I'm sure it's all been said before by others so not really my own). I think you're right about the bible pretty much showing a 40 day timeline too btw. One possible explanation is that the term Pentecost could refer to the entire 50 day "Counting of the Omer"...in typical jewish slavery to law they made 50 little rituals out of counting the days till the bigger ritual celebrating the giving of the law. Another possibility for the discrepency I read is that some jews celebrated Shavuot (pentecost) on the exact date the torah was given and some counted 50 days from the Passover which is 9 days later. And also it seems they disagreed on interpretting the scripture about how to count the 50 days which can add another day. So possibly 10 days difference there. Oh also around this time there was an effort to synchronise holy days with the sabbath which would add one more day to some calendars...oy vey! ;-)

on miracles...hmmm well i think when the will of a faith-child and the will of the father are in unison things happen


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: New poster
PostPosted:  
Offline
Moderator

Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 9:13 am +0000
Posts: 1109
Location: Denver CO
Dear kiwi2,

Just want to welcome you here to the discussion board. I am glad you found us, and I feel sure that you'll get some feedback on your questions. This is a nice place to get some good fellowship - and scholarship, too!

maryjo


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: New poster
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:29 pm +0000
Posts: 2444
Hey kiwi. It seems that your mind has an itch in it that it cannot fully scratch. One thing to remember in the u.b is that once we are born of the holy spirit, we have the potential for the experience of 3 cosmic intuitions and these 3 intuitions give us the ability to discern the difference between truth and figment. So you can literally without fully knowing every last detail, discern the truth in statements. Perhaps this may be the miracle you are looking for! :). The ability "KNOW" all of these realities in the urantia book, instead of merely believing them to be true. The discovery of actually "knowing" God and "knowing" other humans as your spiritual adventure. This is something I am working on and many readers :). To be born of the holy spirit.

Quote:
(192.5) 16:6.9 These scientific, moral, and spiritual insights, these cosmic responses, are innate in the cosmic mind, which endows all will creatures. The experience of living never fails to develop these three cosmic intuitions; they are constitutive in the self-consciousness of reflective thinking. But it is sad to record that so few persons on Urantia take delight in cultivating these qualities of courageous and independent cosmic thinking.

(192.6) 16:6.10 In the local universe mind bestowals, these three insights of the cosmic mind constitute the a priori assumptions which make it possible for man to function as a rational and self-conscious personality in the realms of science, philosophy, and religion. Stated otherwise, the recognition of the reality of these three manifestations of the Infinite is by a cosmic technique of self-revelation. Matter-energy is recognized by the mathematical logic of the senses; mind-reason intuitively knows its moral duty; spirit-faith (worship) is the religion of the reality of spiritual experience. These three basic factors in reflective thinking may be unified and co-ordinated in personality development, or they may become disproportionate and virtually unrelated in their respective functions. But when they become unified, they produce a strong character consisting in the correlation of a factual science, a moral philosophy, and a genuine religious experience. And it is these three cosmic intuitions that give objective validity, reality, to man’s experience in and with things, meanings, and values


I almost forgot the best quote about these intuitions...

Quote:
(191.7) 16:6.4 There exists in all personality associations of the cosmic mind a quality which might be denominated the “reality response.” It is this universal cosmic endowment of will creatures which saves them from becoming helpless victims of the implied a priori assumptions of science, philosophy, and religion. This reality sensitivity of the cosmic mind responds to certain phases of reality just as energy-material responds to gravity. It would be still more correct to say that these supermaterial realities so respond to the mind of the cosmos.

(192.1) 16:6.5 The cosmic mind unfailingly responds (recognizes response) on three levels of universe reality. These responses are self-evident to clear-reasoning and deep-thinking minds.


So you see once you start to work with these intuitions, you will be able to "know" whether your assumptions even in the realm of science are correct. Obviously Data collection and data analysis which is what we call "science" is not what they are referring to when they say "science" they mean "true science".

_________________
StrongcharactersRnotderivedfromnotdoingwrongbutratherfrom
actuallydoingrightUnselfishnesisthebadgeofhumangreatnes
Thehighestlevelsofselfrealizationareatainedbyworshipandservice
Thehapyandefectivepersonismotivatednotbyfearofwrongdoingbutby
loveofrightdoing


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: New poster
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:16 am +0000
Posts: 95
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Thanks very much, Makalu, MaryJo and Boomshuka, for your responses.

That's a cool quote about the reality response. It's amazing to think of ourselves as helpless victims without it. But it's so true! Trying to form a philosophy of life based on nothing probably wouldn't get us very far. Around the time I first came across the Urantia Book, I remember trying to pin down what my core beliefs were. I ended up with 4 or 5 - things like the existence of God, the uniqueness of Jesus in history, the literalness of his resurrection, the objective intelligibility of reality. In hindsight, I think the thought adjuster helped me to those things, which put me in a good position to accept the Urantia Book. Now I'm able to "believe more than I can know", which I guess is the reality response working and expanding my perspective.

Do you always get a kind of reality response when reading the Urantia Book? Or are there some bits that, when you read them, you're like, hmmm... not sure about that.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: New poster
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 5:29 am +0000
Posts: 4470
kiwi2- Welcome! Your question on truth discernment is a good one...but the answer is personal and progressive. Each of us has a unique truth content and intellect. My responses to reading TUB was a mixed bag of confirmations, ah ha's!, hmmmms, and what the heck?, and I don't get its. But the more points of affirmative concept realization and perspective enhancement from prior context improved the "confirmation" process of the Spirit of Truth....meaning the truth gets easier to recognize and contextualize the more truth already gained.

But this is more than understanding....for there can be no "truth" without "affect" to one's living....motives, priorities, and choices must be changed by truth for the truth to become true to the believer of truth. Faith acts always accelerate us forward, but not beliefs - even if the facts of the belief are true.

The greater our truth content, the more capacity for further truth there is. But the more I read, the more discovered - even within that already read. It's a powerful process for our "becoming". Welcome aboard, looking forward to your posts and your voice. Peace.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
 Post subject: Re: New poster
PostPosted:  
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 08, 2006 8:29 pm +0000
Posts: 2444
Quote:
Thanks very much, Makalu, MaryJo and Boomshuka, for your responses.

That's a cool quote about the reality response. It's amazing to think of ourselves as helpless victims without it. But it's so true! Trying to form a philosophy of life based on nothing probably wouldn't get us very far. Around the time I first came across the Urantia Book, I remember trying to pin down what my core beliefs were. I ended up with 4 or 5 - things like the existence of God, the uniqueness of Jesus in history, the literalness of his resurrection, the objective intelligibility of reality. In hindsight, I think the thought adjuster helped me to those things, which put me in a good position to accept the Urantia Book. Now I'm able to "believe more than I can know", which I guess is the reality response working and expanding my perspective.

Do you always get a kind of reality response when reading the Urantia Book? Or are there some bits that, when you read them, you're like, hmmm... not sure about that.


Hey Kiwi, truthfully for me I do not believe I am in position to experience much of this reality response. When I think just how often in a day I confuse my theories as reality, I am pretty sure I am not using these 3 cosmic intuitions. But I don't feel ashamed or anything about this, I know that "very few mortals" actually are! So I am in good company. The key with all this is that you really have to be born of the holy spirit to experience this reality response. So if you feel literally the holy spirit in everything you do, than perhaps you do have this reality response. I do believe the Thought Adjuster is sort of like "reality response" in that he gives our minds some ability to discover these truths in the u.b. But I think that what is talked about here is an addative experience that most people never experience. Indeed we all have personalities but if we are not born of spirit we will just be acting out our self-hood or we will be calling our "self" personality. Personality is another one of those realities that are way way up there in terms of experiencing it.

The u.b has litmus tests for people who are 2nd milers, they lay out the criteria of what to look for in these human beings....The list of spiritual fruit is impressive to say the least. Lol. The majority of human beings are not normal minded human beings in the eyes of the revelators. We are all just little babies hahah.

Quote:
But it is sad to record that so few persons on Urantia take delight in cultivating these qualities of courageous and independent cosmic thinking.


Quote:
377.5) 34:4.1 There are three distinct spirit circuits in the local universe of Nebadon:


(377.6) 34:4.2 1. The bestowal spirit of the Creator Son, the Comforter, the Spirit of Truth.
(377.7) 34:4.3 2. The spirit circuit of the Divine Minister, the Holy Spirit.
(377.8) 34:4.4 3. The intelligence-ministry circuit, including the more or less unified activities but diverse functioning of the seven adjutant mind-spirits.


Quote:
(380.1) 34:5.7 The presence of the Holy Spirit of the Universe Daughter of the Infinite Spirit, of the Spirit of Truth of the Universe Son of the Eternal Son, and of the Adjuster-spirit of the Paradise Father in or with an evolutionary mortal, denotes symmetry of spiritual endowment and ministry and qualifies such a mortal consciously to realize the faith-fact of sonship with God.


Quote:
(380.5) 34:6.4 Spiritual forces unerringly seek and attain their own original levels. Having gone out from the Eternal, they are certain to return thereto, bringing with them all those children of time and space who have espoused the leading and teaching of the indwelling Adjuster, those who have been truly “born of the Spirit,” the faith sons of God.


Quote:
380.7) 34:6.6 The dead theory of even the highest religious doctrines is powerless to transform human character or to control mortal behavior. What the world of today needs is the truth which your teacher of old declared: “Not in word only but also in power and in the Holy Spirit.” The seed of theoretical truth is dead, the highest moral concepts without effect, unless and until the divine Spirit breathes upon the forms of truth and quickens the formulas of righteousness.
(381.1) 34:6.7 Those who have received and recognized the indwelling of God have been born of the Spirit. “You are the temple of God, and the spirit of God dwells in you.” It is not enough that this spirit be poured out upon you; the divine Spirit must dominate and control every phase of human experience.


It would appear you and me are just functioning as animals until we are born of the holy spirit. The cosmic intuitions do not apply to us until that moment of spiritual re-birth. Nor does the "reality response". :shock:

Quote:
(381.6) 34:6.12 And when such a life of spirit guidance is freely and intelligently accepted, there gradually develops within the human mind a positive consciousness of divine contact and assurance of spirit communion; sooner or later “the Spirit bears witness with your spirit (the Adjuster) that you are a child of God.” Already has your own Thought Adjuster told you of your kinship to God so that the record testifies that the Spirit bears witness “with your spirit,” not to your spirit.

(381.7) 34:6.13 The consciousness of the spirit domination of a human life is presently attended by an increasing exhibition of the characteristics of the Spirit in the life reactions of such a spirit-led mortal, “for the fruits of the spirit are love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance.” Such spirit-guided and divinely illuminated mortals, while they yet tread the lowly paths of toil and in human faithfulness perform the duties of their earthly assignments, have already begun to discern the lights of eternal life as they glimmer on the faraway shores of another world; already have they begun to comprehend the reality of that inspiring and comforting truth, “The kingdom of God is not meat and drink but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.” And throughout every trial and in the presence of every hardship, spirit-born souls are sustained by that hope which transcends all fear because the love of God is shed abroad in all hearts by the presence of the divine Spirit.

_________________
StrongcharactersRnotderivedfromnotdoingwrongbutratherfrom
actuallydoingrightUnselfishnesisthebadgeofhumangreatnes
Thehighestlevelsofselfrealizationareatainedbyworshipandservice
Thehapyandefectivepersonismotivatednotbyfearofwrongdoingbutby
loveofrightdoing


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 7 hours


Who is online

Registered users: No registered users


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group