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 Post subject: Re: Relativity and TUB
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Interesting! I have not heard of base 60 defining Pi.

My question would then be; is there an infinity involved in the operation of converting to base 10?

TUB tells us we are a decimal (base 10) planet. So, both cannot be true. Either Pi is a transcendental number and an infinite expression or it is not.

Something is must be wrong with this assertion because I can't think of any way that converting one base to another would change an irrational number into one that is rational.

There are lots of shell games in mathematic and I'm not sure this not one of them. Pi is the most contemplated number is all history. The Infinite has had its enemies on this planet since about 250,000 years ago. Pi has resisted these attacks before.

Regards, Louis.
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Hi As-Above-So-Below:

Thanks for the link. I looked it over and saw a rounding off fudge. Every body does it. No one ever uses Pi to more than 2 decimal places.

In 1840 Lioville proved the existence of transcendental numbers and in 1882 Lindemann proved the transcendence of Pi.

Interesting to note that NASA uses 4 for Pi. When they first shot a rocket into earth orbit in the 50s they used 3.14 for Pi and overshot by a factor of 19! Oops!

They failed to take into consideration that the launch was from the surface of the Earth rather than from the center of the Earth. They already had a head start of more than 4000 miles. Sometimes engineers do that. Trial and error is an accepted learning tool.

Regards, Louis
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 Post subject: Re: Relativity and TUB
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boomshuka wrote:
I agree bart that god is everything, but the u.b also says that not everything is god. ...
Hi Boomshuka. TUB certainly doesn’t say "not everything is god." It says: every thing is not God..
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3:1.2 “I am a God at hand as well as afar off,” says the Lord. “Do not I fill heaven and earth?’” The Universal Father is all the time present in all parts and in all hearts of his far-flung creation. He is “the fullness of him who fills all and in all,” and “who works all in all,” and further, the concept of his personality is such that “the heaven (universe) and heaven of heavens (universe of universes) cannot contain him.” It is literally true that God is all and in all. But even that is not all of God. The Infinite can be finally revealed only in infinity; the cause can never be fully comprehended by an analysis of effects; the living God is immeasurably greater than the sum total of creation that has come into being as a result of the creative acts of his unfettered free will. God is revealed throughout the cosmos, but the cosmos can never contain or encompass the entirety of the infinity of God.
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Hi As-Above-So-Below:

Yes, this is certainly a remarkable feat for the ancients, before computers. The 1800s is and the proofs regarding Pi are ancient history if you compare it to the computer age.

I shutter to think of all the knowledge that has been lost on our planet since the Lucifer rebellion and Adamic default.

I too have always been fascinated with Pi and the other transcendental. Some years ago I came across a wonderful little book published in 1971 by Petr Beckmann entitled, "A History of Pi". It is an enjoyable read in less than 200 pages. If you have not read it, I certainly recommend it. It gives a great historical perspective.

Regards, Louis.
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(57.2) 4:2.5 God is not personally present in nature or in any of the forces of nature,


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(57.4) 4:2.7 The apparent defects of the natural world are not indicative of any such corresponding defects in the character of God. Rather are such observed imperfections merely the inevitable stop-moments in the exhibition of the ever-moving reel of infinity picturization. It is these very defect-interruptions of perfection-continuity which make it possible for the finite mind of material man to catch a fleeting glimpse of divine reality in time and space. The material manifestations of divinity appear defective to the evolutionary mind of man only because mortal man persists in viewing the phenomena of nature through natural eyes, human vision unaided by morontia mota or by revelation, its compensatory substitute on the worlds of time.


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(64.6) 5:2.3 The divine presence cannot, however, be discovered anywhere in nature or even in the lives of God-knowing mortals so fully and so certainly as in your attempted communion with the indwelling Mystery Monitor, the Paradise Thought Adjuster. What a mistake to dream of God far off in the skies when the spirit of the Universal Father lives within your own mind!


Gods spirit pervades time and space and all time and space is within God, but time and space cannot contain god. Even Paradise does not contain god, nothing contains god. He is everywhere and everything but not every thing :D is god. I highly doubt an atom contains god, as atoms are what makes up finite 'nature'. They are definitely not using the word 'nature' in the poetic sense, they must be referring to the very substance and fabric of finite nature itself. IMO. Obviously this is a new subject for me so I am trying to be careful with my wording.

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Hi Boom:

It is all very true that God is NOT in nature. What I wish to explain is how God can be personally present in Paradise at the center of the Master Universe AND personally present at the Paradise nucleus of every ultimaton.

Paradise is said to be the center of infinity but has no location in space. We must first solve that riddle in order to proceed. The only topology that can accommodate such a claim is a hyperbolic geometry. A good example is the donut shape. Think of the moving universe as the space in the donut, with the donut rotating while it expands and contracts its volume. Think of Paradise area as the DONUT HOLE. Geometrically, the donut hole is infinite on a 3d graph. The donut hole is outside the donut and it has no motion, therefore, it is outside time-space.

Time-space are finite features, as well as a feature of nature. What moves is in nature; that which is still at the center of motion is infinite. There may be untold rotational motions in the Universe of Universes, yet their centers of motion SHARE the same Paradise. The centers of ultimation, atoms, planets and Suns, galaxies; all have Paradise as their centers. Yet, these centers are not nature. They are outside of the motion of nature and at the still center.

God is not in the motion; God is not in nature. Yet he is responsible for nature (motion) because he projects it into the finite from his infinite center and controls motion from that center.

Every center of motion in the Universes of Universes IS THE SAME PLACE, Paradise. You are either in space or you are outside of space, in Paradise

Think of the stillness of the eye of a hurricane. Granted, the eye has air molecules but I only employ it as a tool to illustrate my point.

This is a very difficult concept to accept but one that TUB does describe explicitly. God centers ALL things but is not the thing it centers. Paradise is the eternal dwelling of God so it must somehow provide for His Infinity. Absolutum must some how be a substance that is dimensionless. In other words, It must have ZERO dimensions. Only zero can contain Infinity, being the two poles of the infinitely large and the infinitely small.

Mind blowing, yes! But it must be so.

Regards, Louis.
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God is not in the motion; God is not in nature. Yet he is responsible for nature (motion) because he projects it into the finite from his infinite center and controls motion from that center.


But is the material that makes up the finite universe created? Instead of projected? Can we say for sure that it is one or the other or is this still a mystery? I am not saying I know the answer for sure just yet, but I am willing to study what the Urantia Book says about the fundamental principles of reality to try and figure out something. I don't take it as fact from reading the urantia book that god projects finite reality. I take it as fact that finite reality is a shadow of a truer substance as the u.b points out. I guess I am undecided. I have no doubt in my mind though that all energy comes from god, but the book speaks alot about it being created by god. So his ability to Create makes me hesitant to accept the premise that he projects everything.

I will keep reading peoples posts and studying before I make up my mind, though it may take a while for that happen :). I have no shame in admitting I am wrong about something that I haven't even begun to understand if that is the case :).

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Hi Boom:
I would add to what I have already said by trying to clarify some terms. I do not think its is important to distinguish so severely between creating and projecting. Projecting is a word used in TUB many times. To project is to extend. One can only extend of ones self. Thought is always creative. God extends Himself in His Creative thought. Projecting has optical connotations as in how a projector at the movies projects the image onto the screen. I am sure that TUB authors knew of our movies in 1934. They use our familiarity with this term to improve our understanding.

We are LITERALLY created in God's Image. We are the extensions of His imaginings. We are the thought images of His imaginings. So I would say that it is best not to stumble over semantic distinctions between words such as created and projected. God creates by projecting Himself. I've have found it helpful to think of Creation as the Thought verb and projection as the action verb.

The true sequence is; Creative Thought (Father), Relationship (Son), Act of Projection (Spirit). This is the process in the physical, intellectual and spiritual realities.

Paper 189.1. "Mankind is slow to perceive that, in all that is personal, matter is the skeleton of morantia, and that both are the reflected shadow of enduring spirit reality. How long before you will regard time as the moving image of eternity and space as the fleeting shadow of Paradise realities?"

Regards, Louis.
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Louis wrote:

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It is all very true that God is NOT in nature. What I wish to explain is how God can be personally present in Paradise at the center of the Master Universe AND personally present at the Paradise nucleus of every ultimaton.


I am a bit confused by this statement especially the phrase "at the Paradise nucleus of every ultimaton". My understanding of what the UB says is that ultimaton does not have nucleus like an atom. It is true that it revolves around Paradise becasue it only falls within the gravity grasp of Paradise and not on linear gravity. But this does not mean that there is a Paradise inside every ultimaton. There is only one Paradise and it is at the center of the master universe.
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Hi YSMAEL:

I will refer you to paper 42.1 where TUB sets that ultimatons have paradise as its nucleus. Confusing, yes!

It appears that TUB is telling us that Paradise has no location in space, so the nucleus of the ultimatons must not be in space. This means that Paradise area is at the geographic center of infinity, isolated from time and space. This occurs at the center of the Master Universe and at the center of the ultimatons. It is like Paradise is a location that is ubiquitous outside space. It is then no wonder how certain being can traverse space at instantaneous speeds.

Paradise is 'there' to center all motions. Anywhere there are motions in space, Paradise carves out nonspace and nontime at the centers of rotation.

I hope this helps. I wish we were all conversant now in the language of Uversa. There would be a better vocabulary with which to convey these ideas.

Regards, Louis .
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Louis,

Yes, it is true that ultimaton has Paradise as it nucleus because ultimatons revolve around Paradise. In 42.1 it does not say that there is Paradise in every ultimaton. Yes, Paradise has no location but it has position. It is at the center of the master universe. Yes, it is not only isolated from space, it is directly the source of space and indirectly the source of time by reason of the movement of space.
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YSMAEL,
My question for you would be, if not at the nucleus of every ultimaton, then how many, and which ones?

If the ultimaton has Paradise as its center I must presume that it is every and all of the ultimatons. Paradise can be the center of the universe AND the center of each and every ultimaton because it is ONE place, a place where there is no motion. The center of the ultimaton must be still. It must be like a mini universe. Being the source of space and time, Paradise must be the same source for the motion (space -time) of the ultimaton. Sounds bizarre but I have no other explanation.

Regards, Louis.
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