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 Post subject: Re: Relativity and TUB
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Riktare wrote:
Hi Louis,

In 0:6.11 I don't think the author meant to imply that there exists no other force than gravity that can move an object. Exactly what was meant by "control" is an extremely interesting question. It may have something to do with gravity being the root of the manifestation of all other forces. Sort of as if gravity is the pump in a water system. The plumbing is the structure and can route the water to give all sorts of useful effects in a household. But the main pump controls it all.

Your ideas about geometry and dimensions are intriguing, but I don't as yet see a way of making them work for us. Euclidian geometry has been extremely useful to us. Maybe we will learn better as Mota students, but I certainly lack Mota vision.

When I get some more time I'll try out your modified Euler's Identity equation. If it works the way you think it does, it could be very useful. But it would seem to give a very special and unique ellipse. Have you demonstrated mathematically that it corresponds to something natural such as planetary motion?


Hi Steve:
Yes, I must agree that there are other forces, upwards of 30 according to TUB. But gravity remains the only field of force. Other forces are a result of motion interactions, not actions. This means collisions between moving objects and collisions do not produce of fields. Only gravity produces action at a distance. All others must touch.

Geometry is not supposed to work for us, it is useful in telling us how things work. Euclidian geometry does nothing to show us how things work. Quite the opposite, it serves to confuse. We don't need Mota vision to discover nature, we just need to open our own eyes.

Euler's equation is the form we are familiar with is e^iPi + 1 = 0

This does not describe any unique ellipse, it describes an infinite number of ellipses. The phi imbedded in 1 allows for dynamism. There are an infinite number of ellipses as there are an infinite amount of possible orbits. A circle with radius is One and unique. No motion is possible in that geometry . Phi is no where to be found. It is acceleration only and acceleration is not motion. We need accelerated acceleration to achieve motion status. How confusing, thank you Euclid.

When I discovered that in infinity Pi is equal to 4 and e is equal to 3, I was solving for that One Unique Ellipse that exists in Infinity, Paradise!

Paradise is 1/6 longer than it is wide. A perfect proportion if you consider Euler's equation without phi, meaning without motion. Paradise has no motion. To obtain finite ellipses containing motion you must consider phi, for phi adds motion to the ocean. :smile:

I know you are quite adept at mathematics. Perhaps you could demonstrate some of what I have been saying to the folks in an understandable way.
thanks in anticipation. :smile:


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 Post subject: Re: Relativity and TUB
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loucol wrote:
Yes, I must agree that there are other forces, upwards of 30 according to TUB. But gravity remains the only field of force. Other forces are a result of motion interactions, not actions. This means collisions between moving objects and collisions do not produce of fields. Only gravity produces action at a distance. All others must touch.


Quite a good point or series of points which deserve further attention.

Regarding your modified Euler identity, yes, it will produce an infinite number of ellipses but that isn't what I was concerned with. Intuition and logic is telling me that the shape of the curve of the ellipse will be very unique, even if you can drag the ellipse any distance from being a circle you choose. For any minor radius the curve will have a very specific curve or oblateness. So even if you make an ellipse corresponding to minor radius 1, major radius 1 + 1/6, the bulge in between may be entirely different from the nuclear isle.


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loucol wrote:
Euler's equation is the form we are familiar with is e^iPi + 1 = 0

This does not describe any unique ellipse, it describes an infinite number of ellipses. The phi imbedded in 1 allows for dynamism. There are an infinite number of ellipses as there are an infinite amount of possible orbits. A circle with radius is One and unique. No motion is possible in that geometry . Phi is no where to be found. It is acceleration only and acceleration is not motion. We need accelerated acceleration to achieve motion status. How confusing, thank you Euclid.

When I discovered that in infinity Pi is equal to 4 and e is equal to 3, I was solving for that One Unique Ellipse that exists in Infinity, Paradise!
Hi Louis, Euler’s Identity e^i.PI = -1 is just a special case of Eurler’s formula e^i.x = cos(x) + i.sin(x) (for x = PI), which defines a circle in the complex plane, not an ellipse. And how is Phi (1.60803..) embedded in -1 or cos(PI) + i.sin(PI)? And how did you arrive at PI = 4 (not 3.14159..) and e = 3 (not 2.71828..) in infinity? And PI and e are mathematical constants (not variables)..


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Bart wrote:
loucol wrote:
Euler's equation is the form we are familiar with is e^iPi + 1 = 0

This does not describe any unique ellipse, it describes an infinite number of ellipses. The phi imbedded in 1 allows for dynamism. There are an infinite number of ellipses as there are an infinite amount of possible orbits. A circle with radius is One and unique. No motion is possible in that geometry . Phi is no where to be found. It is acceleration only and acceleration is not motion. We need accelerated acceleration to achieve motion status. How confusing, thank you Euclid.

When I discovered that in infinity Pi is equal to 4 and e is equal to 3, I was solving for that One Unique Ellipse that exists in Infinity, Paradise!
Hi Louis, Euler’s Identity e^i.PI = -1 is just a special case of Eurler’s formula e^i.x = cos(x) + i.sin(x) (for x = PI), which defines a circle in the complex plane, not an ellipse. And how is Phi (1.60803..) embedded in -1 or cos(PI) + i.sin(PI)? And how did you arrive at PI = 4 (not 3.14159..) and e = 3 (not 2.71828..) in infinity? And PI and e are mathematical constants (not variables)..


Hi Bart,

The problem with that algebraic expansion is that motion is excluded from possibility. This is because the expression of the third transcendental is missing. It is simply no recognized this way. The is why we need to see unity in the equation to recognize that phi has an identity as well. Then we can express the static and the dynamics.

Historically, that was the initial esoteric thing about the golden ratio: it was the number that had an inverse that was equal to 1 + itself.
1/.618 = 1.618
It was that curious equality that initially intrigued mathematicians, not any infinite surds or Fibonacci series or anything else. Phi is normally written in equation form as
1/φ = φ – 1 But if we write it in terms of the conjugate—as we should—it is 1/Φ = Φ+1 As you see, that is the more natural way to write the first number equation above. If we then multiply
both sides by Φ, it becomes
Φ^2 + Φ =1

This is a correction from my previous identity expression for Phi, I apologize for the error. :cry:

Now, e^iPi + (Φ^2 + Φ) = 0. All three transcendentals are present in all their glory with motion a potential.

The transcendentals are a summation to infinity.

lim Pi as Pi goes to infinity is 4 (at infinity the circle is a square and a square is a circle)
lim e as e goes to infinity is 3
lim phi as phi goes to infinity is 2 (not sure at all about this one, phi is motion and very slippery)

The transcendentals are the way to the next whole number. They transcend to bridge the infinite gap between counting numbers. Do not ask me to prove this or anything else. I will not attempt to prove the existence of God either. You just have to see the results. Numbers are REAL. :smile:


Last edited by loucol on Wed Sep 11, 2013 12:04 am +0000, edited 2 times in total.

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Riktare wrote:
loucol wrote:
Yes, I must agree that there are other forces, upwards of 30 according to TUB. But gravity remains the only field of force. Other forces are a result of motion interactions, not actions. This means collisions between moving objects and collisions do not produce of fields. Only gravity produces action at a distance. All others must touch.


Quite a good point or series of points which deserve further attention.

Regarding your modified Euler identity, yes, it will produce an infinite number of ellipses but that isn't what I was concerned with. Intuition and logic is telling me that the shape of the curve of the ellipse will be very unique, even if you can drag the ellipse any distance from being a circle you choose. For any minor radius the curve will have a very specific curve or oblateness. So even if you make an ellipse corresponding to minor radius 1, major radius 1 + 1/6, the bulge in between may be entirely different from the nuclear isle.


Hi Steve,

Please see a correction I made known in my post to Bart.

What you are discovering is uncharted territory for science. You are discovering the shape of a "singularity". Paradise is a literal substance, Absolutum. It is unique in all the Universe. Paradise is unique. It is massive, it is spaceless. This makes Paradise infinite in density. I suspect that it is very massive. :shock:

But it is not a point singularity, it is like a singularity with a geometric shape! Paradise is the focus of space, but Paradise cannot be the center of a sphere because this is an infinite space, and space is sub-absolute. An ellipse has two foci. A parabola has two foci and one of them is at infinity. This leaves the hyperbola, which has one focus in infinity that can fill the bill for the topology of space. Paradise resides outside of space, has no location in space, and is the geographic center of infinity. Paradise is at the center of the donut hole, at the center of the catenoid.

Keep up the great work, we need your help. :smile:


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By the way Louis, I think you and Maxwell would have been best buddies. Maybe you'll discuss many interesting ideas on the Mansion Worlds as he will certainly be there. He was known for believing that God is the ultimate arbiter of how the universe works physically (as was Sir J. J. Thomson).

The 19th century German masters of electrodynamics were heavily rooted in the idea of electromagnetism being a force at a distance. Maxwell refined Faraday's observations and presented the new theory where all EM forces are the result of contact or transmission. The transmission aspect is coupled to the observation that the transmission takes an ordained amount of time, depending on the specifics of the environment.


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Perhaps this is a poetic way of looking at phi, The Divine Ratio.

Worship is the act of a part identifying itself with the Whole; the finite with the Infinite; the son with the Father; time in the act of striking step with eternity. (1616:10)


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loucol wrote:
… The transcendentals are a summation to infinity.

lim Pi as Pi goes to infinity is 4 (at infinity the circle is a square and a square is a circle)
lim e as e goes to infinity is 3
lim phi as phi goes to infinity is 2 (not sure at all about this one, phi is motion and very slippery)

The transcendentals are the way to the next whole number. They transcend to bridge the infinite gap between counting numbers. Do not ask me to prove this or anything else. I will not attempt to prove the existence of God either. You just have to see the results. Numbers are REAL. :smile:
Hi Louis, I’m beginning to 'sense' what you mean. :) I’m not sure "the transcendentals are the way to the next whole number." Pi and e (and for that matter Phi) might be just fractional constants, allowing us to mathematically interpolate between real discrete states. But I’ll think about it, thanks!

This (still) doesn’t make any sense to me: "the limit of pi for pi goes to infinity is 4"..? The limit of pi for pi goes to infinity is infinity. Did you perhaps mean: the limit of pi for Phi goes to infinity is 4, and similarly the limit of e for Phi goes to infinity is 3? And the limit of Phi for Phi goes to infinity is infinity, not 2..


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Bart wrote:
loucol wrote:
… The transcendentals are a summation to infinity.

lim Pi as Pi goes to infinity is 4 (at infinity the circle is a square and a square is a circle)
lim e as e goes to infinity is 3
lim phi as phi goes to infinity is 2 (not sure at all about this one, phi is motion and very slippery)

The transcendentals are the way to the next whole number. They transcend to bridge the infinite gap between counting numbers. Do not ask me to prove this or anything else. I will not attempt to prove the existence of God either. You just have to see the results. Numbers are REAL. :smile:
Hi Louis, I’m beginning to 'sense' what you mean. :) I’m not sure "the transcendentals are the way to the next whole number." Pi and e (and for that matter Phi) might be just fractional constants, allowing us to mathematically interpolate between real discrete states. But I’ll think about it, thanks!

This (still) doesn’t make any sense to me: "the limit of pi for pi goes to infinity is 4"..? The limit of pi for pi goes to infinity is infinity. Did you perhaps mean: the limit of pi for Phi goes to infinity is 4, and similarly the limit of e for Phi goes to infinity is 3? And the limit of Phi for Phi goes to infinity is infinity, not 2..


Hi Bart,
Simply, the transcendentals governs the Phi spiral. That is motion in the Universe The ellipse is a spiral motion. This is the motion that gets around the infinity that exist from point to point. From 1 to 2 on a number line is infinite, considering all of the inverse numbers. It allow the motion to jump discretely as you said.

If you plug in 3 for e and 4 for Pi in Euler's Identity equation it solves! Phi seems to be a different matter and it unique self identity allows for imbalance that leads to motion.

Euler' equation if phi is seen in the identity 1 as I have posed is the secret to the Universe of Motion! Nothing Less!


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Hi Louis,
I don’t see how plugging in 3 for e and 4 for Pi is a solution to Euler’s identity. In polar form 3^4i = e^(-1.888736152507147*i)..?


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Bart wrote:
Hi Louis,
I don’t see how plugging in 3 for e and 4 for Pi is a solution to Euler’s identity. In polar form 3^4i = e^(-1.888736152507147*i)..?



Hi Bart, try this:

3 to the (4 * i) =
-(0.312610304 - 0.949881465 i) = -1, therefore,

-1 + 1 = 0


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Hi Louis,
In rectangular notation 3^(4i) = -0.312610304 - 0.949881465i, which is not equal to -1. And |3^(4i)| = 1, which is also not equal to -1. Only e^(Pi.i) = -1 - 0i = -1..


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Hi Bart, Thanks for that clarification. What do you make of it all? Is this significant in your opinion? :smile:


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Hi Louis, I think the fact that Euler’s identity relates e and pi in a very concise way is mathematically significant, but I haven’t got a clue what it could mean in reality. And unless you can get from e^(i.pi) = -(Φ^2 + Φ) to a logarithmic (phi) spiral, I don’t really see what you would gain by substituting -(Φ^2 + Φ) for -1 in Euler’s identity.

TUB states that we may conceive of eternity-infinity (reality) as "an almost limitless ellipse." I suppose that could be a logarithmic spiral (with a small growth factor). But I think it’s more likely a chaotic oscillation, which projects finite reality (including Phi spirals) in some lower-dimensional cross-section or 'Poincaré section' of absolute reality. I think that might be a much more interesting dynamical system to underly all finite (discrete) reality.. :)

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105:0.1 TO EVEN high orders of universe intelligences infinity is only partially comprehensible, and the finality of reality is only relatively understandable. The human mind, as it seeks to penetrate the eternity-mystery of the origin and destiny of all that is called real, may helpfully approach the problem by conceiving eternity-infinity as an almost limitless ellipse which is produced by one absolute cause, and which functions throughout this universal circle of endless diversification, ever seeking some absolute and infinite potential of destiny.

Image


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Hi Bart,

I think we have to consider that e can be + or - depending on whether there is a growth slope (expansion) or a decay slope(contraction). Radiation or absorption, don't you think? The identity must be viewed in the absolute sense as in |1|.

I've been seeing the ellipse as a logarithmic spiral for sometime now. This is the only way to explain why an arc on the ellipse is uncontructible with a chord. Kepler's discovery of elliptical orbits and the sweeping out of equal areas over equal time intervals was an amazing discovery. We simply cannot construct an orbit with straight edge and compass. The compass would have to be infinitely large. Adding vectors only work if tou can vector the infinitesimal, that is impossible. That is why the Euler identity is so baffling. Your quote says it all.

But I did get you to recognize e and Pi as whole number when viewed from infinity, no? I don't believe in chaos, but in order and pattern. Discreteness is possible only in instances, infinitesimals. The eternal ellipse is our proof.


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