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Okay. So, I need some help with a few questions. I tried finding it in the UB, but I've had no luck. I'm hoping you guys can help. I will say that I need help from the astronomers, physicist, and really versed readers of the UB. Thanks.

What does the UB say about the creation of the Universe? I've read a few places where it talks about God, but not necessarily how God created the Universe, or what happened when it was created.

Recently, I posted a topic in another forum, replying to science. I basically said that we humans base our science on the the limited knowledge we have, and the finite tools used to gauge the universe as we know it. I also said that I believe God exist outside of the finite existence, and doesn't act on the laws of the finite universe.

Thanks.

- Solis

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Solis - creation takes place on many levels from Paradise outward from the central on one level, the 7 superuniverses, and the local universes. Material creation which we relate to most here is actually by the Creator Sons on the local level. You should track the two threads...."the universe is slowing" and "relativity" here....there are some true scientists here who can explain what I can't even understand. Here's this to get you started:

The Evolution of Local Universes *


(357.1) 32:0.1 A LOCAL universe is the handiwork of a Creator Son of the Paradise order of Michael. It comprises one hundred constellations, each embracing one hundred systems of inhabited worlds. Each system will eventually contain approximately one thousand inhabited spheres.

(357.2) 32:0.2 These universes of time and space are all evolutionary. The creative plan of the Paradise Michaels always proceeds along the path of gradual evolvement and progressive development of the physical, intellectual, and spiritual natures and capacities of the manifold creatures who inhabit the varied orders of spheres comprising such a local universe.

(357.3) 32:0.3 Urantia belongs to a local universe whose sovereign is the God-man of Nebadon, Jesus of Nazareth and Michael of Salvington. And all of Michael’s plans for this local universe were fully approved by the Paradise Trinity before he ever embarked upon the supreme adventure of space.

(357.4) 32:0.4 The Sons of God may choose the realms of their creator activities, but these material creations were originally projected and planned by the Paradise Architects of the Master Universe.


1. Physical Emergence of Universes

(357.5) 32:1.1 The preuniverse manipulations of space-force and the primordial energies are the work of the Paradise Master Force Organizers; but in the superuniverse domains, when emergent energy becomes responsive to local or linear gravity, they retire in favor of the power directors of the superuniverse concerned.

(357.6) 32:1.2 These power directors function alone in the prematerial and postforce phases of a local universe creation. There is no opportunity for a Creator Son to begin universe organization until the power directors have effected the mobilization of the space-energies sufficiently to provide a material foundation — literal suns and material spheres — for the emerging universe.

(357.7) 32:1.3 The local universes are all approximately of the same energy potential, though they differ greatly in physical dimensions and may vary in visible-matter content from time to time. The power charge and potential-matter endowment of a local universe are determined by the manipulations of the power directors and their predecessors as well as by the Creator Son’s activities and by the endowment of the inherent physical control possessed by his creative associate.

(358.1) 32:1.4 The energy charge of a local universe is approximately one one-hundred-thousandth of the force endowment of its superuniverse. In the case of Nebadon, your local universe, the mass materialization is a trifle less. Physically speaking, Nebadon possesses all of the physical endowment of energy and matter that may be found in any of the Orvonton local creations. The only physical limitation upon the developmental expansion of the Nebadon universe consists in the quantitative charge of space-energy held captive by the gravity control of the associated powers and personalities of the combined universe mechanism.

(358.2) 32:1.5 When energy-matter has attained a certain stage in mass materialization, a Paradise Creator Son appears upon the scene, accompanied by a Creative Daughter of the Infinite Spirit. Simultaneously with the arrival of the Creator Son, work is begun upon the architectural sphere which is to become the headquarters world of the projected local universe. For long ages such a local creation evolves, suns become stabilized, planets form and swing into their orbits, while the work of creating the architectural worlds which are to serve as constellation headquarters and system capitals continues.

8)


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..organization and manipulation of the' ripe 'space energy by the Organizers after a go ahead form the Ancinet of Days. the how is beyond us and even science, yet.


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Hi Solis,

Glad to see you here again.

This is my simple understanding of the “creation” according to TUB. Sometimes, we equate creation with materialization. “Let there be” and there something came about from nothing. Magic. But the creation of our universe, our finite universe that is, is a process of evolution. It is not a work performed by the ultimate Magician. Our universe, the part of the universe outside the divine universe (Paradise-Havona) was created, is still being created and will continue to be created. It is actually a process of evolution and our finite universe is called evolutionary universe. But this evolution is not completely natural but with the guidance and work of created personalities like the paradise force organizers, power directors, physical controllers, life carriers, and others involve in this kind of work. This creation through evolution is done is phases. Everything in our universe has its origin and source in Paradise. Paradise and Havona were not created. They comprise the divine eternal universe. Paradise is the eternal abode of the person of God.

Forces (as the UB revelators called them) originate from Paradise and are the ancestors of energies which pervade our universal spaces. These forces are transmuted by the paradise force organizers into the ultimaton, the first measurable form of energy which drifts in universal spaces only held by paradise gravity. The Paradise force organizers start the swirls in space which starts the formation of circular or spiral nebula. These ultimatons in space aggregate by mutual attaction and becomes the electrons, the start of materialization where linear gravity begins to function by mutual attraction of mass. This is the start of the formation of our material universe. Small matter attract each other and they become bigger. The denser the mass of matter the stronger its gravity becomes.

Nebulas are the birthplace of suns/stars. Our sun was a child of the former Andronover nebula. Our planet Urantia together with its sibling planets were part of hot gases pulled away from our sun when a dense dark matter came close to the sun during one of its convulsion period. These gases cooled down and condensed to become the planets. Our planet is positioned in such a perfect distance from the sun so that it is conducive for the implantation of life. The kind of life planned by our Creator Son Michael was implanted and it evolved into many different species including us. But this evolution was also not completely natural. It was purposeful and overcontrolled by spirit intelligences assigned for this purpose. Thus, we are here right now.

Hope this helped.

Ysmael


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So, are current scientific theories, like the Big Band Theory, in agreement with TUB, or is there a better explanation given by it?

I've been following a few threads on science and general cosmology, and I've really grown to enjoy it very much - the theories, debates, etc. So, when I hear things like the Big Bang Theory, I think back to TUB for reference. That this is a good practice or not I'm not sure, but it's a habit of mine to do so.

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Hey, there is actually a better explanation than the big bang theory in the urantia book. There is even an explanation for Dark Matter according to some in the urantia book. The urantia book says that the universe appears to be moving as fast as it is according to our telescopes because of red-shifts and that our velocities are unrealiable. Infact its ability to predict these red-shifts lends to credibility as a source of superhuman authorship :) (I highlighted the part about red-shifts). Also the Urantia book says that all of space respires and that space itself is not inert but actually substance of some sort. Hope these quotes help :). What is interesting is that the authors also explain what is outside of the created universe. They say that outside of all created universe there is the Unqualified Absolute. This domain is infinite and it is essentially pre-reality, or potential reality. This potential reality we are told is infinite and eternal all contained within god himself :).

134.1) 12:4.12 The present relationship of your sun and its associated planets, while disclosing many relative and absolute motions in space, tends to convey the impression to astronomic observers that you are comparatively stationary in space, and that the surrounding starry clusters and streams are engaged in outward flight at ever-increasing velocities as your calculations proceed outward in space. But such is not the case. You fail to recognize the present outward and uniform expansion of the physical creations of all pervaded space. Your own local creation (Nebadon) participates in this movement of universal outward expansion. The entire seven superuniverses participate in the two-billion-year cycles of space respiration along with the outer regions of the master universe.

(134.2) 12:4.13 When the universes expand and contract, the material masses in pervaded space alternately move against and with the pull of Paradise gravity. The work that is done in moving the material energy mass of creation is space work but not power-energy work.

(134.3) 12:4.14 Although your spectroscopic estimations of astronomic velocities are fairly reliable when applied to the starry realms belonging to your superuniverse and its associate superuniverses, such reckonings with reference to the realms of outer space are wholly unreliable. Spectral lines are displaced from the normal towards the violet by an approaching star; likewise these lines are displaced towards the red by a receding star. Many influences interpose to make it appear that the recessional velocity of the external universes increases at the rate of more than one hundred miles a second for every million light-years increase in distance. By this method of reckoning, subsequent to the perfection of more powerful telescopes, it will appear that these far-distant systems are in flight from this part of the universe at the unbelievable rate of more than thirty thousand miles a second. But this apparent speed of recession is not real; it results from numerous factors of error embracing angles of observation and other time-space distortions.

(134.4) 12:4.15 But the greatest of all such distortions arises because the vast universes of outer space, in the realms next to the domains of the seven superuniverses, seem to be revolving in a direction opposite to that of the grand universe. That is, these myriads of nebulae and their accompanying suns and spheres are at the present time revolving clockwise about the central creation. The seven superuniverses revolve about Paradise in a counterclockwise direction. It appears that the second outer universe of galaxies, like the seven superuniverses, revolves counterclockwise about Paradise. And the astronomic observers of Uversa think they detect evidence of revolutionary movements in a third outer belt of far-distant space which are beginning to exhibit directional tendencies of a clockwise nature. *

(134.5) 12:4.16 It is probable that these alternate directions of successive space processions of the universes have something to do with the intramaster universe gravity technique of the Universal Absolute, which consists of a co-ordination of forces and an equalization of space tensions. Motion as well as space is a complement or equilibrant of gravity. *

(130.5) 12:2.3 In the not-distant future, new telescopes will reveal to the wondering gaze of Urantian astronomers no less than 375 million new galaxies in the remote stretches of outer space. At the same time these more powerful telescopes will disclose that many island universes formerly believed to be in outer space are really a part of the galactic system of Orvonton. The seven superuniverses are still growing; the periphery of each is gradually expanding; new nebulae are constantly being stabilized and organized; and some of the nebulae which Urantian astronomers regard as extragalactic are actually on the fringe of Orvonton and are traveling along with us.

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Solis asks:
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So, are current scientific theories, like the Big Band Theory, in agreement with TUB, or is there a better explanation given by it?


I don't think the UB is in agreement with the Big Bang Theory of current science. On the contrary, it is correcting this fallacy. The Big Bang theory is a hypothesis based on the observation that the universe is expanding. If the universe is expanding, it must have started small, very very small, infinitessimally small but infinitesimally dense. They coined a word to describe it - singularity. Then at a certain moment in the past, it exploded and the universe was born and started expanding. I think it is logical, even plausible especially when you discover something that may seem to prove it, like the Cosmic Background Radiation. But the UB has a better explanation for the universe expansion - space respiration. The universe space expand and contract in a two-billion year cycle, one billion year expansion and another billion year contraction with eternal Paradise at the center. At this time, the pervaded space is approaching the midpoint of its expansion in all direction outward from Paradise. In half a billion year it will begin to contract. The UB says that the universe is one living and breathing organism and implies that Paradise is its heart.


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Hi Solis:

In addition to what has already been said, The Central Universe is eternal.
It has no beginning, no end. The Big Bang theory posits a universe that began approximately 13 billion years ago in a tremendous explosion from an infinitely small yet infinitely energetic point or singularity.

So you see, TUB is in complete opposition to the Big Bang. This theory will soon fall because there is so much observational data against it, but science is slow to change due to dogmatic inertia.

Louis


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Solis_Spiritus wrote:
So, are current scientific theories, like the Big Band Theory, in agreement with TUB, or is there a better explanation given by it?


Hi Solis,

The big bang theory of creation is nonsense. From the beginning it was a 'sellout' to the Catholic Church. Einstein was convinced by a catholic bishop by the name of Lemaitre that his equations supported Lemaitre's own, that there was a creation point which he called "primal atom". Of course Einstein used a different term...singularity. This does not mean that science is wrong about everything, they just don't know how the first hydrogen atom came to be and the big bang has no answes. To tell you the truth I think they all know B.B. is B.S. but just haven't found a way to back away from it and save face. There is a paradigm, expressed in TUB that explains the creation of a hydrogen atom and almost 100% agrees with what science has experimentally proven.

gray


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The UB does refer to a Big Bang, but it is not really the Big Bang that science teaches. Read the below quote from Paper 8.

(91.4) 8:1.7 The Infinite Spirit eternalizes concurrently with the birth of the Havona worlds, this central universe being created by him and with him and in him in obedience to the combined concepts and united wills of the Father and the Son. The Third Person deitizes by this very act of conjoint creation, and he thus forever becomes the Conjoint Creator.

(91.5) 8:1.8 These are the grand and awful times of the creative expansion of the Father and the Son by, and in, the action of their conjoint associate and exclusive executive, the Third Source and Center. There exists no record of these stirring times. We have only the meager disclosures of the Infinite Spirit to substantiate these mighty transactions, and he merely verifies the fact that the central universe and all that pertains thereto eternalized simultaneously with his attainment of personality and conscious existence.

I believe this is when Time and Space were created and those foundations necessary for the progressive evolution of the SuperUniverses and beyond.

Although the Cental Universe is Eternal, it exists outside of Paradise which is the only thing that exists outside Time and Space. I think the Central Universe is just eternally sustained yet exists within Time and Space.


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There is a paradigm, expressed in TUB that explains the creation of a hydrogen atom and almost 100% agrees with what science has experimentally proven.

gray


What exactly is this paradigm, expressed in TUB? (assuming it's something not already related to previous replies) Thanks.

-Solis

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Maybe you mean this paradigm Solis?

Quote:
P141:4, 12:9.3 Mathematics, material science, is indispensable to the intelligent discussion of the material aspects of the universe, but such knowledge is not necessarily a part of the higher realization of truth or of the personal appreciation of spiritual realities. Not only in the realms of life but even in the world of physical energy, the sum of two or more things is very often something more than, or something different from, the predictable additive consequences of such unions. The entire science of mathematics, the whole domain of philosophy, the highest physics or chemistry, could not predict or know that the union of two gaseous hydrogen atoms with one gaseous oxygen atom would result in a new and qualitatively superadditive substance -- liquid water. The understanding knowledge of this one physiochemical phenomenon should have prevented the development of materialistic philosophy and mechanistic cosmology.

P141:5, 12:9.4 Technical analysis does not reveal what a person or a thing can do. For example: Water is used effectively to extinguish fire. That water will put out fire is a fact of everyday experience, but no analysis of water could ever be made to disclose such a property. Analysis determines that water is composed of hydrogen and oxygen; a further study of these elements discloses that oxygen is the real supporter of combustion and that hydrogen will itself freely burn.

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Solis_Spiritus wrote:
There is a paradigm, expressed in TUB that explains the creation of a hydrogen atom and almost 100% agrees with what science has experimentally proven.

gray


What exactly is this paradigm, expressed in TUB? (assuming it's something not already related to previous replies) Thanks.

-Solis


Hi Solis :smile: ,

I talk about the paradigm shift on the 'Relativity and TUB' thread...pages 5 & 6.

Science is beginning to realize that vortexes are the cause of local gravity and creation. TUB tells us that Paradise Gravity is the source of ultimatonic activity and controls local gravity throughout the creation process. So, instead of everything being created by the energy of a big bang, everything is created by the energy of Paradise Gravity becoming mass through vortical motion.

Check out...Animation of the Pheonix cluster-NASA.GOV

While your there look at Arepo Simulation of galaxy formation. It's no wonder science is beginning to get it, it's right in front of our face now.

I think that a problem we have is TUB connects everything back to God and the science of TUB connects everything back to Paradise Gravity neither of which can be proven. If we could stipulate that Paradise Gravity is Dark Energy, which is something that science has measured, It would be a lot easier to convince science to take a closer look at the 'science' of TUB.

GRAY


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Hi gray:
Appearently you, Bart and me are making YSMAEL dizzy with all this talk of vortices. You don't have to convince me that these are the motions of the universe, I only made a distinction that Paradise gravity was the cause of the motions and not the other way around.

I further suggest that the phi ratio is the pattern for the vortex motion and is governed by Pi, Phi and nlog, since the Phi spiral is a natural logarithmic vortex.

My guess is that science will not soon accept a concept such as Paradise due to its religious connotations. However, it has already accepted a representational facsimile in the 'point'. There are some hints to this in zero point energy and vacuum energy and singularities even though they are not quite the same.

That is why I defend Bart's oscillatory point. There are those that don't understand that the point that Bart talks about is not a positional point or coordinate, it is no position at all. It is a point of zero dimension, no position in space and with potential for radiating and gravitating to infinity and from infinity, source and destiny. I can see the mataphor.

Regarding Dark Energy, you may be correct. I have thought that Paradise gravity acts primarily, thus forming mass, the motions of mass (vortex) leading to linear gravity and charge due to the polarity of the vortex motion.

Should anyone continue to get dizzy, I have a medical license in Florida and can dispense anti vertigo medication (lol). :smile:

Regards, Louis


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Hello gray:
I had another thought on your assumption that dark energy is paradise energy. I think that this contradicts TUB which states that the ultimaton is the first measurable form of energy and that it has Paradise as its nucleus.

This tells me that dark energy, if it can be measured, must be at least ultimatonic. Paradise gravity would be in control of it because gravity is the sole control of energy-matter. The ultimaton, because of its vortical spin, creates a charge. That charge in the space drift is what I think is the force-charge blanket of space that TUB says is not an ether but looks and smells like ether. I suspect that this is the dark energy we can measure. It is not Paradise gravity per se, but certainly is a consequence of it. After ultimatons become associated they respond to the linear gravity we regard as mass. Prephotonic mass may very well be the dark mass as ultimatons continue to assemble and before they are measurable in the EM spectrum.

Your thoughts?

Regards, Louis


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