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An open forum for general discussions of a spiritual nature where guests and readers entertain the teachings of The Urantia Book.
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Re: The universe is slowing.

Mon Aug 27, 2012 7:42 am +0000

Boom asked:
What is your theory Ysmael?


Hi Boom,

My theory is that Makalu will receive some of his backordered items during his morontia life and some during his spirit life. It is only then that he will be able to answer more definitely these dang questions.

Re: The universe is slowing.

Mon Aug 27, 2012 8:29 am +0000

@Ysmael My theory is some things are not explainable by our logic. IMO Gods ability to have children is more than just a bestowal of life animation, it is a creation and creative acts are something else entirely from projections. A michael being born of the son and father is imo a miraculous occasion even to paradise sons.

Re: The universe is slowing.

Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:03 am +0000

boomshuka wrote:… creative acts are something else entirely from projections …
Nope..
7:6.3 The Original and Eternal Son is the offspring-person of the “first” completed and infinite thought of the Universal Father. Every time the Universal Father and the Eternal Son jointly project a new, original, identical, unique, and absolute personal thought, that very instant this creative idea is perfectly and finally personalized in the being and personality of a new and original Creator Son. In spirit nature, divine wisdom, and co-ordinate creative power, these Creator Sons are potentially equal with God the Father and God the Son.

Re: The universe is slowing.

Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:22 am +0000

YSMAEL wrote:Bart has his "oscillation" theory, Gray has his "vortexes" theory and Luis has his "phi spiral" theory. Hey, guys, your theories make me feel dizzy. :lol:


Hi Ysmael, I can certainly understand you feeling dizzy while thinking about these concepts. I have experienced the same dizzy feeling even nausea while in deep ponders and personal prayer. The Baptism by spirit is a rite of passage. In christianity it is the concept of being 'born again'. In the allegory of Plato's cave it is when a 'prisoner' turns away from the wall of shadows and the light of timeless truth finds him or her; the 'creative impulse of the universe' cannot find you or be instinctively felt without some measure of 'transpersonel consciousness'.

gray

Re: The universe is slowing.

Tue Aug 28, 2012 10:22 am +0000

To project an idea or thought is part of the creative process in this case. But that doesn't mean these sons are literal projections in the way in which you are laying out. There is a seperation in beings which allows them to have true relationships with each other.

Re: The universe is slowing.

Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:19 am +0000

boomshuka wrote:To project an idea or thought is part of the creative process in this case. But that doesn't mean these sons are literal projections in the way in which you are laying out. …
Why not?

boomshuka wrote:… There is a seperation in beings which allows them to have true relationships with each other.
Yes, these Creator Sons are distinct subinfinite projections, like us lowly co-creative mortals are distinct finite projections in time and space. Apparently (all) such projections are accompanied by the experiential phenomena of individual bodies, minds and personalities.

Re: The universe is slowing.

Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:22 pm +0000

If their individual body, mind and personality are experiental as you say what part of them is being projecteted? Spirit substance reacts to the literal gravity of the gods. If spirit was a projected wouldn't spirit gravity be irrelevant?

Re: The universe is slowing.

Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:06 am +0000

boomshuka wrote:If their individual body, mind and personality are experiental as you say what part of them is being projecteted? …
What is projected is the so-called "living energy system" (112:0.2) personality and mind are bestowed upon such systems. In the case of mortal human creatures, the Thought Adjuster (the spirit fragment of the Father) is said to be a projected bestowal. (6:5.7)

A Creator Son is the personalized projection of a creative idea of the Universal Father and the Eternal Son (7:6.3). In turn, Creator Sons "project living creatures." (32:2.1). So (again) your claim that "creative acts are something else entirely from projections" is false. Subsequent personality bestowal by the Universal Father unifies the identity of such projected living energy systems. (112:0.2) And "On attained experiential levels all personality orders or values are associable and even cocreational." (0:5.3)

boomshuka wrote:… Spirit substance reacts to the literal gravity of the gods. If spirit was a projected wouldn't spirit gravity be irrelevant?
I didn’t say spirit is a projection. And where in TUB is it stated that "spirit substance reacts to the literal gravity of the gods?" It says: all spirit realities are responsive to the exclusive spirit gravity circuit of the Second Source and Center. (7:1.1) Obviously spiritual beings like Creator Sons will be responsive to spirit gravity.

"Spirit substance" (spirit realities) may be projected similar to material projections. Thereby: "Spirit substance (quality) is just as responsive to spirit gravity as the organized energy of physical matter (quantity) is responsive to physical gravity. […] From the viewpoint of personality, spirit is the soul of creation; matter is the shadowy physical body." (7:1.3)

Re: The universe is slowing.

Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:50 am +0000

So you are saying life that the spark of life animation is a projection?

Re: The universe is slowing.

Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:00 pm +0000

boomshuka wrote:So you are saying life that the spark of life animation is a projection?
Not exactly. "Life […] constitutes the animation of some pattern-configured or otherwise segregated system of energy — material, mindal, or spiritual." (36:6.6) TUB indicates that such segregated systems of energy are projected. Their subsequent animation comes from the Infinite Spirit (or a Creative Daughter of the Infinite Spirit). (36:3.4) In the case of mortal will creatures, TUB speaks of this "spark of life" as a "bestowal", whereas orders of life are "projected". (36:3.5)

Interestingly, life is not responsive to (material) gravity (36:6.6). This means that life must be wholly spiritual.

36:3.4 The vital spark—the mystery of life—is bestowed through the Life Carriers, not by them. They do indeed supervise such transactions, they formulate the life plasm itself, but it is the Universe Mother Spirit who supplies the essential factor of the living plasm. From the Creative Daughter of the Infinite Spirit comes that energy spark which enlivens the body and presages the mind.

36:3.5 In the bestowal of life the Life Carriers transmit nothing of their personal natures, not even on those spheres where new orders of life are projected. At such times they simply initiate and transmit the spark of life, start the required revolutions of matter in accordance with the physical, chemical, and electrical specifications of the ordained plans and patterns. Life Carriers are living catalytic presences which agitate, organize, and vitalize the otherwise inert elements of the material order of existence.

36:6.6 We speak of life as “energy” and as “force,” but it is really neither. Force-energy is variously gravity responsive; life is not. Pattern is also nonresponsive to gravity, being a configuration of energies that have already fulfilled all gravity-responsive obligations. Life, as such, constitutes the animation of some pattern-configured or otherwise segregated system of energy — material, mindal, or spiritual.
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