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boomshuka wrote:
… The next paper is interestingly enough about how finite reality came about, I guess I will save that paper for my next post.
Well, I don’t think anyone here is particularly interested in a summary or interpretation of paper 106, unless you can intelligibly relate it to the subject of this thread: space respiration (topic title: The universe is slowing); and/or unless you can provide quotes indicating that (unqualified) absolute reality is not an oscillation and/or that (subinfinite) time-space reality is not a projection (of this oscillation). Otherwise, I will regard it as yet another off-topic disruption of the discussion.

BTW, in your last post you say about TUB 105:2.2-3 (my emphasis):
boomshuka wrote:
…So this is the first volitional expression of the I AM. The self differentation of the Infinite One (personal) from the (non-personal) Infinitude. (will) and (non-will). So before this theoretical moment everything was homogenous within the I AM. Than the revelators go on to explain that there was multiple differentation between the "potential" and actual reality"
.…
So after the differentiation of the Infinitude from the Infinite One within the I AM, seven fold relationships came into existance as part of the I AM. This description of the Unqualified Absolute definitely seems to fit with the Infinitude as opposed to the Infinite one. Etleast IMO (all nonpersonal potential) would seem to fit with all potential reality that is of the infinitude and not the (personal) infinite one. …
You’ve got this all wrong again. After separating from the Infinitude, the Infinite One is impersonal/prepersonal, and Infinitude (Absolute and co-absolute Deity) is personal, not vice versa. You suggest that either (Absolute) Deity or the Infinite (the First Source and Center) doesn’t have (free) will. This is again wrong. Both have free will (volition). Then you continue and say that the Infinitude differentiated from the Infinite One. Wrong! It’s the other way round; the Infinite One differentiated itself from the Infinitude. (Also note that the word Infinitude is used only four times in The Urantia Book.)


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105:2.2 In following the chronological portrayal of the origins of reality, there must be a postulated theoretical moment of “first” volitional expression and “first” repercussional reaction within the I AM. In our attempts to portray the genesis and generation of reality, this stage may be conceived as the self-differentiation of The Infinite One from The Infinitude, but the postulation of this dual relationship must always be expanded to a triune conception by the recognition of the eternal continuum of The Infinity, the I AM.

105:2.3 This self-metamorphosis of the I AM culminates in the multiple differentiation of deified reality and of undeified reality, of potential and actual reality, and of certain other realities that can hardly be so classified. These differentiations of the theoretical monistic I AM are eternally integrated by simultaneous relationships arising within the same I AM—the prepotential, preactual, prepersonal, monothetic prereality which, though infinite, is revealed as absolute in the presence of the First Source and Center and as personality in the limitless love of the Universal Father.


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Hi All:

Bart's last post reminds us that this is a thread on "The universe is slowing".

My conclusions (to bring things back to topic) are:

Space is currently expanding.
Time and space are inseparable.
Time and space are inverses of one another.
Time must be currently dilating.
This means that the interval of instances are getting longer.

When space expands, the density of the universe decreases and entropy increases.
The universe is discharging and mass is flowing 'net', back into energy (E/m is increasing, Light is accelerating), as in E=mc^2.

This is my opinion from what TUB tells us.

Now, what is the universe going to look like in a billion years when we are in contraction?
Are we going to be in the dark as energy flows 'net', back into mass? Light would be decelerating. The universe would be in a net charging. A Cosmic night of renewal, rest and preparation for the new dawn?

Is it a coincidence that we started our expansion about 500 million years ago, at about the same time life began on Earth? Let there be light!

Louis


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You suggest that either (Absolute) Deity or the Infinite (the First Source and Center) doesn’t have (free) will. This is again wrong. Both have free will (volition).


I am saying that the Infinitude does not have individual will seeing as all personality is the Infinite one, and that the infinitude is under the control of God the infinite one, IMO it is bestowed will simultanously at this theoretical moment and that is expressed simultanously as the first source and center in which the personality of the I AM becomes Father at the same moment the other 6 Absolutes come into existence. Also this paper has everything to do with ultimate reality so it is very much relevant to your oscillation theory, it should provide the information that either proves or disproves it, I would think you would be enthusiastic about delving into it. Also I know that it was the Universal One that differentiated as I stated in the paragraph you quoted. Also the 7 Absolutes including the first source and center in which the I AM becomes the Father as the first source and center comes theoretically after this initial differentiation, etleast that is the theory that the revelators point to.

The Universal One of Infinity seems awfully like the Infinite one.
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1155.4) 105:2.11 7. The Universal One of Infinity. I AM as I AM. This is the stasis or self-relationship of Infinity, the eternal fact of infinity-reality and the universal truth of reality-infinity. In so far as this relationship is discernible as personality, it is revealed to the universes in the divine Father of all personality — even of absolute personality. In so far as this relationship is impersonally expressible, it is contacted by the universe as the absolute coherence of pure energy and of pure spirit in the presence of the Universal Father. In so far as this relationship is conceivable as an absolute, it is revealed in the primacy of the First Source and Center; in him we all live and move and have our being, from the creatures of space to the citizens of Paradise; and this is just as true of the master universe as of the infinitesimal ultimaton, just as true of what is to be as of that which is and of what has been.


So far you have not tied in your oscillation theory into the ultimate reality layed out in the urantia book. These papers should really be able to prove or disprove your theory however. I was mistaken when I said there is no way to discredit or credit your theory. Of coarse I am a rookie at these papers so I am not going to bring up to much more on this topic untill I have got a good handle on this topic. Hopefully your theory is still floating around on these boards in a few weeks :).

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boomshuka wrote:
… this paper has everything to do with ultimate reality so it is very much relevant to your oscillation theory, it should provide the information that either proves or disproves it, I would think you would be enthusiastic about delving into it. …
Paper 106 (Universe Levels of Reality), basically suggests the unification of all reality. So, you’re right, it is very relevant. :) Thereby the Trinity of Trinities is portrayed as "the actual summation of the entirety of experiential infinity." (106:8.1) And: "The association of these three Trinities in the Trinity of Trinities provides for a possible unlimited integration of reality." (106:8.12) "And we are taught that, in infinity and existentially, there is [only] one Absolute." (106:8.17) "As we philosophically conceive of the I AM in past eternity, he is alone, there is none beside him." (106:8.23)

Of course, all this must be compatible with an 'oscillation theory'. And indeed, whereas all Deity is portrayed in Paper 106 as experiential and incomplete, the (pre-personal, pre-experiential, and pre-existential) infinite First Source and Center is said to be "the completion of the cycle of reality," which "selfrealize[s] the limitlessness of reality around the circle of eternity.."
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106:8.12 The association of these three Trinities in the Trinity of Trinities provides for a possible unlimited integration of reality. This grouping contains causes, intermediates, and finals; inceptors, realizers, and consummators; beginnings, existences, and destinies. The Father-Son partnership has become Son-Spirit and then Spirit-Supreme and on to Supreme-Ultimate and Ultimate-Absolute, even to Absolute and Father-Infinite — the completion of the cycle of reality. Likewise, in other phases not so immediately concerned with divinity and personality, does the First Great Source and Center self-realize the limitlessness of reality around the circle of eternity, from the absoluteness of self-existence, through the endlessness of self-revelation, to the finality of self-realization — from the absolute of existentials to the finality of experientials.

So, according to the author of Paper 106, the Unqualified Absolute is equivalent to the complete (continuous) cycle (oscillation) of reality, whereas all qualified Deity (including the Eternal Son) can be seen as incomplete (discontinuous) projections of the One infinite First Source and Center around this circle of eternity; with (nonetheless) individual personalities (and free will)..


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Just trying to make sure I understand what you are saying, are saying that the 7 absolutes and the reality founded on the 7 absolutes are projected from God?

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Yes, basically. :) Actually, the First Source and Center is the first Absolute, which projects the other six co-ordinate Absolutes (and all creation).


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Hi Bart,
I wonder if you are confusing the UB concept of the "Unqualified Absolute" with the concept of the "I Am"? In these papers, both concepts are given technical, well-defined meanings. Yet you seem to be unaware of (or to ignore?) these? If so, this may help me to understand why you cling to your "oscillating point" idea. Bart, there is so much more to be discovered and enjoyed... if only we can get you past your point of view!
Nigel


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Bart has his "oscillation" theory, Gray has his "vortexes" theory and Luis has his "phi spiral" theory. Hey, guys, your theories make me feel dizzy. :lol:


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What is your theory Ysmael? :biggrin:

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my 7-dimensional brane model needs more time since i got notice that the 7d lab equipment i ordered to measure the dang thing with is on some kinda major backorder...but i did figure out how to acquire the more time :wink:

Step 1. Being in Awe Can Expand Time

Step 2. Giving Time Can Give You Time

btw, when my toys get here those will become step 2 and step 7 :lol:


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Hi All:

It is fun to try to understand the universe that The Father has created for us and models are very useful to that understanding. However, we must be careful that our models are not ones that are searching for a reality. We must be keen observers of nature, careful experimenters and wise interpreters of data. All of these are capable of deceiving us.

Too much of the science of the last two centuries has been a theories in search of data to support it. Theories need not be provable, they must be falsifiable. This is not good science since it tempts scientists to cheat, renormalize, and hide all sorts of errors with mathematics.

The "theory" of the spiral motion (vortex) is first based on observation. It is easy to observe rotational motions in planets, galaxies, and closer to home, tornados, hurricanes, whirlpools, sea shells etc. TUB has revealed the respiratory universe and Paradise source.

Science must return to rigorous observations, sound hypothesis formulation based on irrefutable data, and falsifiable theories, rather than rest on mathematical equations that are not representative of the physical realities. Simple relationships and perfect patterns are responsible for the diversity and complexity of finite reality.

Louis


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Hi all:

42:6.7 Each atom is a trifle over 1/100,000,000th of an inch in diameter, while an electron weighs a little more than 1/2,000th of the smallest atom, hydrogen. The positive proton, characteristic of the atomic nucleus, while it may be no larger than a negative electron, weighs almost two thousand times more.

Any thoughts on what kind of particle(s) can have opposite charges, weigh 2000 times more, but be no larger. There may be a very important clue in this statement.

Louis


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nnunn wrote:
Hi Bart,
I wonder if you are confusing the UB concept of the "Unqualified Absolute" with the concept of the "I Am"? In these papers, both concepts are given technical, well-defined meanings. Yet you seem to be unaware of (or to ignore?) these? If so, this may help me to understand why you cling to your "oscillating point" idea. Bart, there is so much more to be discovered and enjoyed... if only we can get you past your point of view!
Nigel
Hi Nigel. I think the Universal Father is the First Source and Center, which is energy revealed in Paradise-Havona and at the same time energy concealed in the Unqualified Absolute (104:3.13).

Thus, revealed energy (Paradise), and concealed energy (the Unqualified Absolute) are unified in the First Source and Center. Thereby "Paradise is the center of the force-energy activation of the cosmos — the universe position of the First Source and Center, the cosmic focal point of the Unqualified Absolute, and the source of all energy." (104:4.26) I don’t see why such an all encompassing concept cannot be regarded as a point in our models.. :)

You suggest that "in these Papers" a "technical, well-defined meaning" of the I AM is given. I don’t see that either..
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0:3.23 The concept of the I AM is a philosophic concession which we make to the time-bound, space-fettered, finite mind of man, to the impossibility of creature comprehension of eternity existences—nonbeginning, nonending realities and relationships. [...]


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Hi Makalu:

BTW, what are the 7 physical dimensions you are incorporating into your brane theory?

Three of space, 3 of time, and the zero dimension of Paradise?

I can see measuring space without problems. What of the three corresponding dimensions of time?

I don't think there is a viable theory without accounting for Paradise. How do you propose to measure the Paradise cause? Indirectly as to effect?

Regards, Louis


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loucol wrote:
Hi Makalu:

BTW, what are the 7 physical dimensions you are incorporating into your brane theory?

Three of space, 3 of time, and the zero dimension of Paradise?

I can see measuring space without problems. What of the three corresponding dimensions of time?

I don't think there is a viable theory without accounting for Paradise. How do you propose to measure the Paradise cause? Indirectly as to effect?

Regards, Louis



i think that was more of a joke than a theory...other than to point out that a 3d creature will never grasp the 7d cosmos....if there are serious answers to your questions then those too are on major backorder sorry lol

btw, time is not a dimension in my viewpoint but time will tell....


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130:7.6 There are seven different conceptions of space as it is conditioned by time.


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