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56:0.1 GOD is unity. Deity is universally co-ordinated. The universe of universes is one vast integrated mechanism which is absolutely controlled by one infinite mind. The physical, intellectual, and spiritual domains of universal creation are divinely correlated. The perfect and imperfect are truly interrelated, and therefore may the finite evolutionary creature ascend to Paradise in obedience to the Universal Father’s mandate: “Be you perfect, even as I am perfect.”


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Let us read these passages as well and remember that they are not inconsistent with each other. They are all true. Find your own way to reconcile them if they seem to say two different things.


To me, they don't seem to say two different things. As Makalu wrote, the universe is one living and breathing organism so "in Him all things consist." And as your wrote, "God controls the universe from WITHOUT and WITHIN." God is permanently and personally present in Paradise at the eternal center of infinity.


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Hi Bart:
I think you may like this one...


104:4.28 This triunity is force and energy. The endless possibilities of the Unqualified Absolute are centered around the absolutum of the Isle of Paradise, whence emanate the unimaginable agitations of the otherwise static quiescence of the Unqualified. And the endless throbbing of the material Paradise heart of the infinite cosmos beats in harmony with the unfathomable pattern and the unsearchable plan of the Infinite Energizer, the First Source and Center.


Oscillations by any other name...

Regards, Louis


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Hi All:

42:7.10 The first twenty-seven atoms, those containing from one to twenty-seven orbital electrons, are more easy of comprehension than the rest. From twenty-eight upward we encounter more and more of the unpredictability of the supposed presence of the Unqualified Absolute. But some of this electronic unpredictability is due to differential ultimatonic axial revolutionary velocities and to the unexplained “huddling” proclivity of ultimatons. Other influences — physical, electrical, magnetic, and gravitational — also operate to produce variable electronic behavior. Atoms therefore are similar to persons as to predictability. Statisticians may announce laws governing a large number of either atoms or persons but not for a single individual atom or person.

The Unqualified Absolute is present in the atom.

Regards, Louis


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56:1.1 The physical or material creation is not infinite, but it is perfectly co-ordinated. There are force, energy, and power, but they are all one in origin. The seven superuniverses are seemingly dual; the central universe, triune; but Paradise is of single constitution. And Paradise is the actual source of all material universes — past, present, and future. But this cosmic derivation is an eternity event; at no time — past, present, or future — does either space or the material cosmos come forth from the nuclear Isle of Light. As the cosmic source, Paradise functions prior to space and before time; hence would its derivations seem to be orphaned in time and space did they not emerge through the Unqualified Absolute, their ultimate repository in space and their revealer and regulator in time.

Paradise functions through the Unqualified Absolute. The Unqualified Absolute is supposedly present in the atom.

Louis.


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Makalu wrote:
I'm not aware of these "apparent contradictions" in the text...can you be more specific? I could construct an answer to your questions but you would not be satisfied with my answers to your questions...as it should be.
Read the thread.

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The universe is one living, breathing Organism...what more macroscopic unity do you want?
Well I guess the universe is not "one living, breathing Organism." What is it breathing? Where is this stated in TUB?

Makalu wrote:
You oscillation theory is lacking in a number of areas as others tried to point out one area and it went right over your head.
I don’t recall that..:-s And TUB’s own formal analogy of absolute reality and creation is an infinite circular motion, which is an oscillation.


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loucal wrote:
... Paradise functions through the Unqualified Absolute. The Unqualified Absolute is supposedly present in the atom.
Hi Louis. Thanks for the quotes! It’s always best to let The Urantia Book speak for itself.:)

I think the opposition in this thread to the idea that the absolute cause of reality is One oscillation, is largely due to a misunderstanding of statements in TUB..


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Bart wrote:
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Well I guess the universe is not "one living, breathing Organism." What is it breathing? Where is this stated in TUB?


116:7.1 The grand universe is not only a material creation of physical grandeur, spirit sublimity, and intellectual magnitude, it is also a magnificent and responsive living organism. There is actual life pulsating throughout the mechanism of the vast creation of the vibrant cosmos. The physical reality of the universes is symbolic of the perceivable reality of the Almighty Supreme; and this material and living organism is penetrated by intelligence circuits, even as the human body is traversed by a network of neural sensation paths. This physical universe is permeated by energy lanes which effectively activate material creation, even as the human body is nourished and energized by the circulatory distribution of the assimilable energy products of nourishment. The vast universe is not without those co-ordinating centers of magnificent overcontrol which might be compared to the delicate chemical-control system of the human mechanism.

11:6.1 We do not know the actual mechanism of space respiration; we merely observe that all space alternately contracts and expands. This respiration affects both the horizontal extension of pervaded space and the vertical extensions of unpervaded space which exist in the vast space reservoirs above and below Paradise. In attempting to imagine the volume outlines of these space reservoirs, you might think of an hourglass.


Well, I guess if we combine the statement that the universe is one living organism and the fact of space respiration, it is correct to say that the universe is one living, breathing organism.


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YSMAEL wrote:
… Well, I guess if we combine the statement that the universe is one living organism and the fact of space respiration, it is correct to say that the universe is one living, breathing organism.
Hi Ysmael. My point (objection) is in the question: "then what is it breathing?" The universe of universes is not separate from God or breathing God (or energy). God and the universe are One (oscillation). I’m sorry for any confusion..


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Hi Bart and Louis,

I'm sure no one here disputes that the Father-I Am is the source and center, the infinite upholder, of everything. What we (in the blue corner!) are trying to establish is that by His absolute projection of the mathematical and the spiritual (via Paradise and the Son), He has aroused potentials sufficient to inject novelty into eternity. Just look at the concept of Personality in the UB: by enabling us to personalize His adjusters, He changes everything.

And Bart, you still dodge the issue of how an absonite pre-echoes all finites. Clearly, some of us are getting used to the idea of non-finites, but the nature of absonite design and techniques of transcendental causation are literally beyond the "full philosophic limit" of our adjutant (sub-morontia) minds. And yet here we are discussing absolute things as if they are somehow simpler, more accessible, than the pre-echoes of absonity. Embarrassing evidence of our ignorance?

Earlier, Louis wrote:

loucol wrote:
I do agree with Nigel that there must be some great significance to this borderland of the subabsolute, but I personally find this absonite realm even harder to understand.

Louis, that may be the best line in this thread so far :D But then you slip back into form by confusing the agitation of the Unqualified with the action of Paradise: let's not forget the actual space bestowed by material Paradise that allows force organizers to manipulate the unqualified resources that pervade this absolutely ultimate bestowal.

Bart, when I wished that you would allow the ultimaton to relate to Paradise as an electron relates to its proton, I was assuming you'd get my drift, that I want to include in this model the vast stretches of activated space that exist between hydrogen's electron and its proton. I want vast spaces, distinct from the monota of the Paradise Isle, to contain those belts and blobs of ultimata "held in the universal space drift". Before we can approach the issue of space respiration within the quiescent geographic extension of Paradise, we need to allow for the reality of the space bestowed by this fourth Source and Center. Your secondary, topological meaning serves nicely as a double entendre appropriate to an "I Am" (i.e. pre-bestowal) context. But once Paradise has bestowed space, should we not account for space in our models?

As an exercise, could I ask you to try to imagine a model in which ultimatons mutually huddle, and in which their center of gravity is neither internal nor in space, but non-local?

With regard to Paradise as activator and the Unqualified as agitation, Bart's Hindu shortcut threatens to re-merge the Qualified with the Unqualified, and disregards the effort of the I Am to introduce action into the original hypothetical stasis. Recall...

UB (1150.14) 104:4.47 wrote:
"[...] The seven triunities multiply versatility, eternalize new depths, deitize new values, disclose new potentialities, reveal new meanings; and all these diversified manifestations in time and space and in the eternal cosmos are existent in the hypothetical stasis of the original infinity of the I AM." 104:4.47

Here we see how the authors say "all is one". But note, only in "the hypothetical stasis of the original infinity". Once Paradise bestows space, and humans start to personalize adjusters, it's a new ball game, with so much to explore! But retreating to Hindu metaphysics snuffs out all the fun stuff. And the new stuff the UB reveals.

PS: Bart, I'm sad you ignored my reference to ultimatonic condensation (?)

Nigel


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Hi Nigel:

I think it is unfair to ask Bart to have the ultimaton relate to Paradise as an electron relates to a proton. We don't have the faintest idea how an electron relates to a proton; only a theory. The Standard Model is not fact. It is not even in agreement with TUB.

104:4.26 Paradise is the center of the force-energy activation of the cosmos — the universe position of the First Source and Center, the cosmic focal point of the Unqualified Absolute, and the source of all energy. Existentially present within this triunity is the energy potential of the cosmos-infinite, of which the grand universe and the master universe are only partial manifestations.

105:3.2 1. The First Source and Center. First Person of Deity and primal nondeity pattern, God, the Universal Father, creator, controller, and upholder; universal love, eternal spirit, and infinite energy; potential of all potentials and source of all actuals; stability of all statics and dynamism of all change; source of pattern and Father of persons. Collectively, all seven Absolutes equivalate to infinity, but the Universal Father himself actually is infinite.

Tell me how the Lagrangian and the Hamiltonian jive with these statements in TUB. I Know that you are a physicist but TUB is pointing us to a higher Truth.

The Unqualified Absolute is not agitated, it is quiescent.

The model of the Ultimaton which can mutually huddle, whose center of gravity is neither internal nor in space, yet non-local is clearly a hyperbolic topology. Imbedded tori whose center is not in space nor internally. The donut HOLE is not in space, it is not in time, it does not move. This donut hole can 'contain' infinity because it is absolute. The ultimatons huddle because they too 'breathe". The Hole is the source of the tori as it is projected from its infinite center.

You can account for space in your model only if you account for its source, non-space. I know of no physical theory that can eliminate distance, volume, and time from its equations and still call itself a physical theory that mainstream physics accepts. Physics has no absolutes; only a plethora of constants, a sea of transforms, a wall of renormalizations, and a shakey foundation.

You can account for the finite, and the absonite, but you must also account for its source, The Infinite, in the same breath. The source of all reality is The Infinite.

You simply cannot stuff mainstream physics into TUB, or visa versa. The Revelations are a foundational paradigm shift.

If you wish to speculate, try this one. Perhaps the proton is to the electron what the absonite is to the finite! Paradise must then be central to both!

Regards, Louis.


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nnunn wrote:
… As an exercise, could I ask you to try to imagine a model in which ultimatons mutually huddle, and in which their center of gravity is neither internal nor in space, but non-local? …
Hi Nigel. Thanks for your questions. :) Apparently you missed my point earlier. Finite reality can be modelled as a projection in time and space of the infinite oscillation of a single dimensionless point. All that exists in (absolute) reality is this point and its oscillatory (circular) motion. In such a view, time might exist as a 'frequency' (or frequencies or melodies) within the point’s consciousness; which could sequentially project the position of the point in space at regular intervals. Hence, so called segregata (primordial force). Space is simply everything (every position of the point) that is not projected.

Regarding non-locality, imagine that (from our finite projected time-space perspective) the speed of the original oscillating point is (approximately) infinite. Then it can be said that the gravitational center of the ultimaton (the oscillating point) is simultaneously internal (nuclear) and non-local (global/all/Paradise).

Also, the frequency of our personal projection might increase; thus modelling (spiritual) ascention. In theory this frequency may become (approximately) infinite, at which point we are one with God..
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107:2.5 [...] it is entirely possible that an Adjuster could be roaming the master universe simultaneously with being at one with the omnipresent Father.
In answer to your question how ultimatonic huddling (even condensation 41:3.6) might fit into this model, I must assume that the oscillation is not a simple circular motion but a complex (spiralling) oscillation. E.g., we know from mathematical chaos theory that such systems can produce infinite self-similar (fractal) structure, which is in many respects reminiscent of our material world and nature..


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The universe breathes space. Your cosmology looks to me like the big bang with fractals (albeit nature has many more patterns that can't be described with fractal math), and fails by not accounting for mind realities and by making the creator less then the thing created.


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Hi Ysmael. My point (objection) is in the question: "then what is it breathing?"


Well, I guess it is breathing "heavenly oxygen" :lol:


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Makalu wrote:
The universe breathes space. …
Really? How? Do you think it has lungs?
Makalu wrote:
… Your cosmology looks to me like the big bang with fractals (albeit nature has many more patterns that can't be described with fractal math), and fails by not accounting for mind realities and by making the creator less then the thing created.
There is no big bang in my (TUB’s) cosmology. Where do you see a big bang? And why wouldn’t this theory account for "mind realities"? And how can it "make the creator less then the thing created" if the creator (the point in the model) is the only physical thing that actually exists?


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