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An open forum for general discussions of a spiritual nature where guests and readers entertain the teachings of The Urantia Book.
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The universe is slowing.

Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:54 pm +0000

For those of us already struggling to cross that last item off our "to do" list each day, there's bad news: Time is slowing down and will eventually run out. That's according to a team of Spanish scientists who claim that the growth of the universe is decelerating, slowing time and making everything appear to take place faster. Researchers theorize that eventually time will grind to a complete halt and cease to exist, but it's happening so slowly that it's imperceptible to humans. This might give nightmares to the Sheldon Coopers among us, but we prefer to think of it as the perfect, scientifically backed excuse for just not having enough time to get everything done

Ps 102:25-26Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands.26 They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed:

Re: The universe is slowing.

Mon Jun 18, 2012 4:34 pm +0000

Assuming time even exists........ :shock:

Have you read jesus' discourse on reality?

Re: The universe is slowing.

Mon Jun 18, 2012 5:20 pm +0000

How about trying this one, too...

118:1.1 It is helpful to man’s cosmic orientation to attain all possible comprehension of Deity’s relation to the cosmos. While absolute Deity is eternal in nature, the Gods are related to time as an experience in eternity. In the evolutionary universes eternity is temporal everlastingness—the everlasting now.

Time and Eternity: http://www.truthbook.com/index.cfm?linkID=1370#U118_1_0


Re: The universe is slowing.

Mon Jun 18, 2012 7:03 pm +0000

The Secret Powers of Time 8)


28:6.9 3. The Import of Time. Time is the one universal endowment of all will creatures; it is the “one talent” intrusted to all intelligent beings. You all have time in which to insure your survival; and time is fatally squandered only when it is buried in neglect, when you fail so to utilize it as to make certain the survival of your soul. Failure to improve one’s time to the fullest extent possible does not impose fatal penalties; it merely retards the pilgrim of time in his journey of ascent. If survival is gained, all other losses can be retrieved.

28:6.10 In the assignment of trusts the counsel of the Imports of Time is invaluable. Time is a vital factor in everything this side of Havona and Paradise. In the final judgment before the Ancients of Days, time is an element of evidence. The Imports of Time must always afford testimony to show that every defendant has had ample time for making decisions, achieving choice.

28:6.11 These time evaluators are also the secret of prophecy; they portray the element of time which will be required in the completion of any undertaking, and they are just as dependable as indicators as are the frandalanks and chronoldeks of other living orders. The Gods foresee, hence foreknow; but the ascendant authorities of the universes of time must consult the Imports of Time to be able to forecast events of the future.

28:6.12 You will first encounter these beings on the mansion worlds, and they will there instruct you in the advantageous use of that which you call “time,” both in its positive employment, work, and in its negative utilization, rest. Both uses of time are important.

Re: The universe is slowing.

Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:04 pm +0000

Hi Clyde. :) Any "claim that the growth of the universe is decelerating" seems perfectly in agreement with TUB’s notion of space respiration, which opposes so called big bang theories..
11:6.1 We do not know the actual mechanism of space respiration; we merely observe that all space alternately contracts and expands. This respiration affects both the horizontal extension of pervaded space and the vertical extensions of unpervaded space which exist in the vast space reservoirs above and below Paradise. In attempting to imagine the volume outlines of these space reservoirs, you might think of an hourglass.

11:6.4 The cycles of space respiration extend in each phase for a little more than one billion Urantia years. During one phase the universes expand; during the next they contract. Pervaded space is now approaching the mid-point of the expanding phase, while unpervaded space nears the mid-point of the contracting phase, and we are informed that the outermost limits of both space extensions are, theoretically, now approximately equidistant from Paradise. The unpervaded-space reservoirs now extend vertically above upper Paradise and below nether Paradise just as far as the pervaded space of the universe extends horizontally outward from peripheral Paradise to and even beyond the fourth outer space level.

And, according to TUB, time started when subinfinite time-space reality (all of creation) started. Time is a finite concept; an artefact of our "partial, relative, and shadowy" perception and comprehension of reality. Many "simultaneous events of eternity" somehow manifest in our limited finite reality as "sequential transactions". But "universal realities" may be "eternal/timeless; nonbeginning, nonending.."
0:3.20 REALITY, as comprehended by finite beings, is partial, relative, and shadowy. The maximum Deity reality fully comprehensible by evolutionary finite creatures is embraced within the Supreme Being. Nevertheless there are antecedent and eternal realities, superfinite realities, which are ancestral to this Supreme Deity of evolutionary time- space creatures. In attempting to portray the origin and nature of universal reality, we are forced to employ the technique of time-space reasoning in order to reach the level of the finite mind. Therefore must many of the simultaneous events of eternity be presented as sequential transactions.

0:3.23 The concept of the I AM is a philosophic concession which we make to the time-bound, space- fettered, finite mind of man, to the impossibility of creature comprehension of eternity existences—nonbeginning, nonending realities and relationships. To the time-space creature, all things must have a beginning save only the ONE UNCAUSED—the primeval cause of causes. Therefore do we conceptualize this philosophic value-level as the I AM, at the same time instructing all creatures that the Eternal Son and the Infinite Spirit are coeternal with the I AM; in other words, that there never was a time when the I AM was not the Father of the Son and, with him, of the Spirit.

0:3.25 Much of the confusion of all orders of beings, high and low, in their efforts to discover the Father- Infinite, is inherent in their limitations of comprehension. The absolute primacy of the Universal Father is not apparent on subinfinite levels; therefore is it probable that only the Eternal Son and the Infinite Spirit truly know the Father as an infinity; to all other personalities such a concept represents the exercise of faith.

Re: The universe is slowing.

Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:19 pm +0000

[/i](1300.5) 118:7.1 The function of Creator will and creature will, in the grand universe, operates within the limits, and in accordance with the possibilities, established by the Master Architects. This foreordination of these maximum limits does not, however, in the least abridge the sovereignty of creature will within these boundaries. Neither does ultimate foreknowledge — full allowance for all finite choice — constitute an abrogation of finite volition. A mature and farseeing human being might be able to forecast the decision of some younger associate most accurately, but this foreknowledge takes nothing away from the freedom and genuineness of the decision itself. The Gods have wisely limited the range of the action of immature will, but it is true will, nonetheless, within these defined limits.

(1300.6) 118:7.2 Even the supreme correlation of all past, present, and future choice does not invalidate the authenticity of such choosings. It rather indicates the foreordained trend of the cosmos and suggests foreknowledge of those volitional beings who may, or may not, elect to become contributory parts of the experiential actualization of all reality.

(1300.7) 118:7.3 Error in finite choosing is time bound and time limited. It can exist only in time and within the evolving presence of the Supreme Being. Such mistaken choosing is time possible and indicates (besides the incompleteness of the Supreme) that certain range of choice with which immature creatures must be endowed in order to enjoy universe progression by making freewill contact with reality.

(1301.1) 118:7.4 Sin in time-conditioned space clearly proves the temporal liberty — even license — of the finite will. Sin depicts immaturity dazzled by the freedom of the relatively sovereign will of personality while failing to perceive the supreme obligations and duties of cosmic citizenship.

I think this means our free-will minds would just "blow-up" without the confines of time and space - perhaps our nurturing and protecting "womb"? Time and space act as the confining and limiting "cage" for the animal of the ascendent mind - confined in a habitat where free will evolution cannot victimize its perfect host in its experiential learning curve? Error/evil, sin/mindful evil, nor inequity/embraced sin do NOT exist or impact universal reality, no? It is "confined" and thereby "irrelevant" and nonconsequential "outside" its own "reality"? It/we are "released" only upon our realization, by finaliter fusion, of the reality of eternity and infinity.

Time and space then are a construct of partial reality for the evolutionary progression of the sub-infinite and potential to actualize into its potentiality. One may be created within reality or one may evolve into reality, but such an evolutionary process requires time and space for free will to choose actual reality.

OK, I'm way over my head here. But Boom, I think time does exist...within timelessness. It is more than perception but it is a perception/non-reality that must be transcended.....eventually and progressively and experientially. It is real to us but not real in Reality. Our free will is only free to choose reality or non-reality....it does not choose what IS real for that is certain and not subject to our choices or our awareness or our agreement.....except as it relates to us individually. Gotta stop....my head hurts suddenly. Peace.

Last edited by fanofVan on Thu Jun 21, 2012 11:24 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

Re: The universe is slowing.

Thu Jun 21, 2012 10:38 pm +0000

Clyde, nearly forgot my quibble with you Friend. For I can attest that time is NOT slowing down...for me. For one who did not expect to live to see age 21, I can assure you, that at age 60, time is ACCELERATING!! Well, that is for me. Time is a very funny...or should I say an odd thing. Or should I say an odd concept? For those so blessed they think time drags on....embrace THAT illusion! It won't "last" "long".

But really Clyde....if time were slowing down, wouldn't that mean more time? Isn't slower time more time? I would strongly protest your logic....if any logic explained time within timelessness at all. But I fear science, reason, AND time abondon us when we most need them...near the end of our "time". My only hope here is to confound others in some fraction of my own confoundment. HAHA! Peace from one sublimely confused in my confidence...all will be well....eventually (another time concept....eventuation? potentiality? realization of reality...ok, I'll stop this perpetual loop of "time"). :lol:

OK, forget the quibble - got it - I really am perceiving the appearence of time accelerating while it's actually slowing down. Makes perfect sense! Anymore braintwisters Clyde?....thanks for sharing watching science "progress" to explaining the unexplainable. What a hoot.
Last edited by fanofVan on Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:15 am +0000, edited 1 time in total.

Re: The universe is slowing.

Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:09 am +0000

Time is very mysterious stuff. It is absolute in its measurements by us - planetary rotation, planetary orbit, speed of light - but it is experienced relatively by the mind. It "flies by" or "drags on" or accelerates or slows suddenly, even seems to stop sometimes, all based on personal perception. The pace and rythm are differentiated by where we live too. The pastoral cycle of seasons compared to the pulsing urban 24/7 frenzy. The never changing seasons of the tropics compared to the urgency of short seasons in the temperate zones. Time is perceived, as Bart pointed out, as a lineal progression, event by event and moment by moment, but this perception is an illusion...of time experienced by mind. So it makes sense that our minds can in some ways and at some times transcend this lineality to experience or perceive it in new ways...there's a quote somewhere about - What God wills is (not will be but is).

Science is so cool, constantly revealing God's laws and results and processes, making Him and His creation always bigger and grander and its elements always smaller and smaller. Amazing. But science eventually disproves as much former science as it reveals new scientific "fact". As Bart points out, TUB readers know those poor confused scientists, some of whom claim contraction and others expansion, are both right...and both wrong. It could take awhile to even theorize "respiration"....which would be a difficult feat for unmanaged and accidental, purposless physics, eh?

So what exists and happens in-time is misperceived by the mind-in-time of lineal experience. Must admit I do not understand the theorum reported by Clyde that slowing time makes its perception accelerate but I can appreciate that we may each experience time differently one from another and even personally based on age or event or season. Why do I think about this stuff? :roll:

Re: The universe is slowing.

Fri Jun 22, 2012 8:42 am +0000

Also remember the passage the Authors included which states (more or less) that a lot of confusion about what is happening in the universe is due to the counter-rotation of the various levels of the universes. We are on the outer fringe of a univese rotating in one direction, the first outer space level, which is what we see when we look "outward" is rotating in the opposite direction. This creates a lot of chaos is the calculations of those not realizing (which includes most if not all of the scientific community).

Re: The universe is slowing.

Fri Jun 22, 2012 9:19 am +0000

Yea you are right van. We are in a sort of time cage lol. Which reminds me of a quote about time units. It would seem the higher we ascend or minds and personalitys the more of time we live in. In essence we experience more reality in any given moment. Or our counsciosness expands.

Re: The universe is slowing.

Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:35 am +0000

To me, time is one of the essential elements of the space continuum within which we exist as time/space creatures. Time is essential to our perception of reality. Without time, we have no basis for cognizance of existence.

That being said, as we progress, even thru this short life, our view of time is constantly evolving. It will be interesting to see how our perception of time evolves as we pass from flesh and blood thru the morontial and finally into the spirit phases of our existence.

After all, except for the evolution of the Supreme, there might not even be time. For is not the evolution of the 7 super universes just a reflection of the growing reality of the Supreme? (and visa-versa). Before the inception of the 7 super universes was there a time before time (so to speak).? After the reality of the Supreme becomes manifest, will there also be a time after time?


Re: The universe is slowing.

Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:25 pm +0000

Eternity, before time, after time, linear and nonlinear time, time inside of timelesness, eventuation, actualization of potentialities, and.....down the rabbit hole we go where up is down and in is out and big is small and around and around we go!! It is pretty amazing a guy no brighter than me can at least attempt to conceive of these - that mind thing works better than the brain thing in many ways. I think Cyndi Lauper sang....."Time After Time" 8)

Re: The universe is slowing.

Fri Jun 22, 2012 12:59 pm +0000


Re: The universe is slowing.

Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:26 pm +0000

clyde fern wrote:… Time is slowing down and will eventually run out. That's according to a team of Spanish scientists who claim that the growth of the universe is decelerating, slowing time and making everything appear to take place faster. …
Actually these scientists suggest that time is slowing down. And their mathematical models indicate that this would give us the impression that the expansion of the universe is accelerating, whereas (according to Einstein’s relativity theory) it should be slowing down as a result of gravity. José Senovilla says: "The appearance of acceleration is caused by time itself gradually slowing down."

So the universe is expanding, but it’s expansion rate may be decelerating. In terms of TUB's space respiration: "Pervaded space is now approaching the mid-point of the expanding phase." (11:6.4) :)

According to Senovilla, if time slows down, things will seem to go faster and faster until time finally disappears; "then everything will be frozen, like a snapshot of one instant, forever." But how can time be slowing down? Eventually, in a contracting universe, overall gravitational pull would increase, which would slow down time. This is called gravitational time dilation. General relativity theory describes how, for example, the clock of an observer on the top of a mountain runs very slightly faster than the clock of an observer at sea level. Nevertheless, if the universe is still expanding, then time must (still) be speeding up, not slowing down.

There is, however, another cause of time dilation called relative velocity time dilation; accelerated clocks run slower than clocks moving relatively uniform. Thus, if the overall motion of the universe is somehow accelerating relative to the perceived motion of stars billions of light-years away from us, then time would (relatively) be slowing down.

According to TUB, time is the linear stream/sequence/succession of temporal events perceived by creature consciousness. I guess this stream of (quantum) events might speed up or slow down, possibly as the result of space respiration, and without us noticing such nonlinearity directly, because everything, including our mind/brain/perception, would speed up or slow down..

Anyhow, we can transcend time. (130:7.4) This implies that time is not a fundamental aspect of our being. Even if time would completely disappear, then we may still be here.. :)
130:7.4 Time is the stream of flowing temporal events perceived by creature consciousness. Time is a name given to the succession-arrangement whereby events are recognized and segregated. The universe of space is a time-related phenomenon as it is viewed from any interior position outside of the fixed abode of Paradise. The motion of time is only revealed in relation to something which does not move in space as a time phenomenon. In the universe of universes Paradise and its Deities transcend both time and space. "On the inhabited worlds, human personality (indwelt and oriented by the Paradise Father’s spirit) is the only physically related reality which can transcend the material sequence of temporal events."

130:7.5 Animals do not sense time as does man, and even to man, because of his sectional and circumscribed view, time appears as a succession of events; but as man ascends, as he progresses inward, the enlarging view of this event procession is such that it is discerned more and more in its wholeness. That which formerly appeared as a succession of events then will be viewed as a whole and perfectly related cycle; in this way will circular simultaneity increasingly displace the onetime consciousness of the linear sequence of events.


Re: The universe is slowing.

Fri Jun 22, 2012 7:56 pm +0000

Pause here to contemplate a bit of the UB:


15:1.1 Within the limited range of the records, observations, and memories of the generations of a million or a billion of your short years, to all practical intents and purposes, Urantia and the universe to which it belongs are experiencing the adventure of one long and uncharted plunge into new space; but according to the records of Uversa, in accordance with older observations, in harmony with the more extensive experience and calculations of our order, and as a result of conclusions based on these and other findings, we know that the universes are engaged in an orderly, well-understood, and perfectly controlled processional, swinging in majestic grandeur around the First Great Source and Center and his residential universe.

15:1.2 We have long since discovered that the seven superuniverses traverse a great ellipse, a gigantic and elongated circle. Your solar system and other worlds of time are not plunging headlong, without chart and compass, into unmapped space. The local universe to which your system belongs is pursuing a definite and well-understood counterclockwise course around the vast swing that encircles the central universe. This cosmic path is well charted and is just as thoroughly known to the superuniverse star observers as the orbits of the planets constituting your solar system are known to Urantia astronomers.

15:1.4 In this age and as direction is regarded on Urantia, superuniverse number one swings almost due north, approximately opposite, in an easterly direction, to the Paradise residence of the Great Sources and Centers and the central universe of Havona. This position, with the corresponding one to the west, represents the nearest physical approach of the spheres of time to the eternal Isle. Superuniverse number two is in the north, preparing for the westward swing, while number three now holds the northernmost segment of the great space path, having already turned into the bend leading to the southerly plunge. Number four is on the comparatively straightaway southerly flight, the advance regions now approaching opposition to the Great Centers. Number five has about left its position opposite the Center of Centers while continuing on the direct southerly course just preceding the eastward swing; number six occupies most of the southern curve, the segment from which your superuniverse has nearly passed.

15:1.6 Urantia belongs to a system which is well out towards the borderland of your local universe; and your local universe is at present traversing the periphery of Orvonton. Beyond you there are still others, but you are far removed in space from those physical systems which swing around the great circle in comparative proximity to the Great Source and Center.

So it seems that we are on track after all...

12:4.12 The present relationship of your sun and its associated planets, while disclosing many relative and absolute motions in space, tends to convey the impression to astronomic observers that you are comparatively stationary in space, and that the surrounding starry clusters and streams are engaged in outward flight at ever-increasing velocities as your calculations proceed outward in space. But such is not the case. You fail to recognize the present outward and uniform expansion of the physical creations of all pervaded space. Your own local creation (Nebadon) participates in this movement of universal outward expansion. The entire seven superuniverses participate in the two-billion-year cycles of space respiration along with the outer regions of the master universe.

12:4.14 Although your spectroscopic estimations of astronomic velocities are fairly reliable when applied to the starry realms belonging to your superuniverse and its associate superuniverses, such reckonings with reference to the realms of outer space are wholly unreliable. Spectral lines are displaced from the normal towards the violet by an approaching star; likewise these lines are displaced towards the red by a receding star. Many influences interpose to make it appear that the recessional velocity of the external universes increases at the rate of more than one hundred miles a second for every million light-years increase in distance. By this method of reckoning, subsequent to the perfection of more powerful telescopes, it will appear that these far-distant systems are in flight from this part of the universe at the unbelievable rate of more than thirty thousand miles a second. But this apparent speed of recession is not real; it results from numerous factors of error embracing angles of observation and other time-space distortions.

12:4.15 But the greatest of all such distortions arises because the vast universes of outer space in the realms next to the domains of the seven superuniverses seem to be revolving in a direction opposite to that of the grand universe. That is, these myriads of nebulae and their accompanying suns and spheres are at the present time revolving clockwise about the central creation. The seven superuniverses revolve about Paradise in a counterclockwise direction. It appears that the second outer universe of galaxies, like the seven superuniverses, revolves counterclockwise about Paradise. And the astronomic observers of Uversa think they detect evidence of revolutionary movements in a third outer belt of far-distant space which are beginning to exhibit directional tendencies of a clockwise nature. *

I see this as saying that much of our calculation of universe travel, and indeed time itself, if flawed by our failure to realize that we are spinning in the opposite direction of the outer universes.

Therefore I cheerfully pay little mind to much of the "breakthrough" science which postulates that the universe is flying apart, stopping, starting, going sideways etc...
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