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This is the longest post I have ever done - so please forgive me - but I think it will fuel quite a discussion and the research is worth sharing because of its implications:

Is it possible that contained in the pages of the Bible’s Revelations, the Urantia Book was foretold?
John Zebedee speaks of a book with seven seals, a book that “would not be worthy to be read by man,” except for the Lion - descending from David’s throne (“Lion” is a religious symbol that denotes both Christians as well as “men of courage” who wield great influence in the world).

We are told that John, the Apostle of Jesus, while exiled in prison for four years around A.D. 68 in Patmos, was given to a great vision of the Mansion Worlds, and was presented something of the story of the Lucifer Rebellion of the past as well as a foretelling of the days of the future when a “New Jerusalem” would come down from Heaven (which the Urantia authors say does occur when evolutionary worlds enter the era of ‘light and life’). John also witnessed the resurrection of sleeping survivors, as well as the forming of the Four and Twenty Elders, which had only just recently occurred within thirty years subsequent to Jesus ascending after his bestowal, thus ending the dispensational age – which John describes in The Book of Revelations, according to the Urantia Book.

Full of rich symbolisms as filtered through the eyes of a 1st Century Judean, John presents observations of several events of the past, the present and the future. And it is in the future that John describes an important book would be given to man. Down through the ages many accept that the book given to John was the Book of Revelation, but careful reading of the scriptures discloses that though John was to write what he saw (which became the Book of Revelation), the book he refers to in the hands of Angels and of ‘The Lamb,’ seems to be one which has divine significance and importance to future ages and is not the book John wrote.

Is it possible that what John foresaw, and could only describe with symbolism, was in fact a prophecy of the deliverance of a new book which would reveal God and Jesus to a whole new generation? This would suggest that plans for producing such a book were already being laid, plans that John was allowed to witness.
If John did prophecy the later appearance of a divine book, indeed an important book that was ‘sweet to the mouth’ while ‘bitter to the stomach’ (a bitter truth, or something that would be hard to swallow at first), then it is makes sense that the Urantia Book appears to clarify what John saw and described in his writings-describing a book which is a new revelation of truth, as foretold in The Book of Revelations 5:1, 5:2, 5:3, 5:4, 5:5, 5:7, 5:8, and so one, for a total of 25 references made to this “little book.”

And so now let us look at the various references John makes in Revelations to “the book.”

5:1 And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.

(Could it be that John saw the letters of the book and not understanding what they meant, referred to them as seals or symbols, but were in fact the seven letters which we now know of as U-R-A-N-T-I-A)

5:2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?

(John hearing the Angel say that few in the coming age would be brave enough or honest enough to accept a new revelation in book form)

5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

(The Angel telling John that few would accept the new revelation at first, for fear of the truth being proclaimed to them in this way)

5:4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.

5:5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.

(John here is being comforted by one of the Twenty Four Elders who (according to the UB), sat in advisory roles for our world, and who were appointed by Jesus soon after he returned as a Master Sovereign Son. The Elder tries to tell John, don’t worry, many are ignoring this new revelation, but some who follow Jesus will recognize it and will embrace and study it)

5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.

5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

5:9-10 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.

(Perhaps describing the day when this new revelation is fully embraced and the truth of God finally begins to take hold upon the world and its many nations)

10:2 And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and left on the earth.

(Perhaps a symbol of the further spread of this new revelation)

10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

(The seventh angel John is describing could be a Seraphim of the Future, (as they are described in TUB Paper 39, section 7) the last of the seven major Seraphim groups who assist mortal man in progress. John seems to indicate he is witnessing a day “the mystery of God is revealed to all.” Anyone who has read the Urantia Book will tell you that the book attempts to explain, for the first time, everything we can possibly understand about God and his universal plan of perfection, and it is a new revelation of spiritual truth)

10:8-9 "And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go [and] take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth." "And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey."

(To me, this is a symbolic reference to digesting the information in the book, to read it and become acquainted with its truth - though it is sometimes a bitter truth, one hard to swallow and one that can cause much agony for those who do not want to know the truth, but whose words will be sweet to those who will take it in)

10:10 And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter.

17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

(This can be interpreted as follows: the new revelation was available to many in the of its presentation, but many who lived on earth refused to see it, or refused to accept God, and when they were resurrected on the Mansion world, they started to see how selfish and closed minded they were about believing such truths)

20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

(Straightforward:, those who accepted the new revelation had better lives (in the flesh) than those who ignored it, only because those who followed God’s will or had a better spiritual outlook and purpose, were able to produce more fruits of the spirit while in the flesh)

20:14-15 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

(This might be a reference to those who failed to survive the resurrection because they just couldn’t muster enough faith to pass the ‘test” of mortal survival. Remember, John is witnessing a dispensational resurrection, so he is trying to explain that some human beings who died a “first death” just didn’t pass through when their life transcripts were reviewed by the Guardian Angel in the reassembly halls, incurring a “second death” of adjudication)

21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

(Again, straightforward, once the record of a persons’ transcripts are made, there is no changing back. This statement has been adopted by the Church as meaning no new truth or can be added or taken from Scripture, which is a fallacy because every time the Bible is translated, words are omitted, changed, revised, etc. So to me, this statement about the book of life merely signifies a personal life of record- that which is attributed to each and every human being)

22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.

(A statement that implies the new revelation will be written by angels, not men- which is the claim of the Urantia Book)

22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.

22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

(John being told by the angel who showed him the wonderful truths in the book that he is just a messenger, and to be thankful to the Father who has made such a revelation possible, and like the prophets of Men, he was told to do the same thing: which is to produce a revelation that calls on people to worship God)

22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.

(Stating that the new revelation will be presented at some point in history, and John should prophecy this to future believers to expect this new revelation in the form of a book. And this did John do, to proclaim the prophecy of a new revelation of truth in Jesus. But in his attempts to narrate the vision of the “little book,” the Church misinterpreted the book John wrote with the Revelation which would later appear)

22:18-19 "For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:" "And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book."

(And finally, John is told this new book, this latest revelation of truth is from a divine source and would not be the work of men; those who refuse to believe it to be a new revelation, or try to diminish its importance, will only ignoring the wondrous truths that are contained therein, for all humanity to see).

As a Urantia Book reader, and one who has seen the initial reaction coming from both Christians and non-Christians alike, I have firsthand knowledge (as many of us Urantia Book readers will attest) to the rejection of the fifth epochal revelation, thus far.

And so when reading the Book of Revelations in The New Testament regarding such revelation of new truth as they would appear in the ages to come, and as John depicted them when we was shown the future, it strikes me as poignant and truthful that depictions of just “a book,” how it would be rejected, but then later embraced, do seem to be occurring in the age in which we live. And while I cannot be sure this is what John saw, it does seem striking that the ages of men have overlooked what was described in the very book that is attributed to the Word of God – that a book would sometime appear disclosing the nature of God, the worship of God and the true nature of the Lamb, Jesus.

It also seems to me that those behind the scenes, the ones who made the decision to prepare for the further revelation of truth and who ultimately decided a book would be the best avenue for presenting such truths, might have tried to prepare the way for its reception, just as the prophets of old, Adam, Melchizedek and others tried to do when preparing the way for the Son of Man.

Only halfheartedly do I think our spiritual brethren had plans to produce the Urantia Book at the time of Johns’ exile at Patmos. More likely it would seem such plans were formulated years after John’s death. Of this notion I cannot say, nor do the authors tell us when such plans were being made – excepting that unusual events occurred in the 20th century which allowed them to proceed with presenting a new revelation of truth to mankind in the form of The Urantia Book. But I do believe John Zebedee was shown (perhaps through a form reflectivity) the past, his present, and maybe even the future. And I do believe it is possible that the Four and Twenty Elders, former Urantians who knew from experience what motivates man, could have suggested a book of new truth- since the one trait of our long history is that we love sacred books.

In the Book of Revelations, the Four and Twenty Elders make a very pronounced appearance, and we know from past history that ‘the way’ of epochal revelation is commonly prepared. Perhaps one of these Elders was telling John of this ‘new truth.”

I simply do not know.

I have no doubt that the Urantia Book even now is preparing the way for the sometime return of Jesus, a possible Machiventa Melchizedek return, or the appearance of a Magisterial Son, all explicitly told in the Urantia Papers. But the implications of what I am stating are clear: what if the very Book of Revelations was a prophecy of the new revelation of truth which would appear in book form?

Can you imagine what kind of commotion this would stir up in the religious community? I know I can.

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Thank you for your insight. I appreciate your valuable input.

You say Revelations was not written by John Zebedee, but stated in the Urantia Book - and while not central to my question, still let me point out the following excerpts from the Urantia Book regarding John:

John was in prison several times and was banished to the Isle of Patmos for a period of four years until another emperor came to power in Rome. Had not John been tactful and sagacious, he would undoubtedly have been killed as was his more outspoken brother James. As the years passed, John, together with James the Lord’s brother, learned to practice wise conciliation when they appeared before the civil magistrates. They found that a “soft answer turns away wrath.” They also learned to represent the church as a “spiritual brotherhood devoted to the social service of mankind” rather than as “the kingdom of heaven.” They taught loving service rather than ruling power — kingdom and king.

(1555.7) 139:4.14 When in temporary exile on Patmos, John wrote the Book of Revelation, which you now have in greatly abridged and distorted form. This Book of Revelation contains the surviving fragments of a great revelation, large portions of which were lost, other portions of which were removed, subsequent to John’s writing. It is preserved in only fragmentary and adulterated form.


But to my greater point - which is this - was John being shown a vision of a great book that would be a new revelation of truth when he wrote his apocrypha? And could this 'little book' he referred to the same revelation we now have ( TUB)?

The basis of this question is founded on the notion that all great revelations of the past were foretold in some form, so that people would be prepared to receive it. Obviously, John's writings may not have "paved the way" for the Urantia Book, but in hindsight, and in reading his distorted, overly-symbolized writings, it is most curious that there is a lot of reference to a "book" that would have an impact on man - so it begs the question.

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When you consider the contents in TUB, I would estimate far less than 1% of it would require any updating between Pentacost and the publishing of the 5th Revelation - so the volume could even have been "in the can" by the time of John's vision awaiting small "updates" to social progress and conditions by the 20th century. Fascinating!! For Christianity is the outworking of the 4th...one far too focused on the Judaic and Paulinian and far too little on the words and teachings of the Jesusonian version tucked neatly within the Gospels. While speculative, I do not find this far fetched and the linkage would be profound, if true. Love the scholarship here! Thanks and Peace.


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He may have seen the actual "book of life" or one of these living epistles. It would seem that the u.b is giving us a hint that John really did see one of these books.

Quote:
(301.6) 27:5.1 The superaphic custodians of knowledge are the higher “living epistles” known and read by all who dwell on Paradise. They are the divine records of truth, the living books of real knowledge. You have heard about records in the “book of life.” The custodians of knowledge are just such living books, records of perfection imprinted upon the eternal tablets of divine life and supreme surety. They are in reality living, automatic libraries. The facts of the universes are inherent in these primary supernaphim, actually recorded in these angels; and it is also inherently impossible for an untruth to gain lodgment in the minds of these perfect and replete repositories of the truth of eternity and the intelligence of time.


It looks like the revelators verify that John saw into the "book of life", by 1st telling us he had a great revelation and 2nd by saying that "we have heard of the book of life". Who knows what revelations he gained from looking at this book. Perhaps he gleaned information about the urantia book as well.
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20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.



(1555.7) 139:4.14 When in temporary exile on Patmos, John wrote the Book of Revelation, which you now have in greatly abridged and distorted form. This Book of Revelation contains the surviving fragments of a great revelation, large portions of which were lost, other portions of which were removed, subsequent to John’s writing. It is preserved in only fragmentary and adulterated form.

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Good speculation but in my opinion the project might have been planned that early but the contents had not been formulated during John's time because the book seems to have been put together as an answer to the questions put together by the Group who received it.


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Goid Point Ysmael!

So then perhaps what John saw was the future?

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One of the stumbling blocks I first had upon coming to believe, not just read and study and find truths, TUB was the fact it was a book. Seemed odd. Now, after reading jwatkins speculation and other's opinions, I return to my notion above that TUB may have "been in the can", or mostly so, by the "time" of John's vision (that's a good joke about the future there j. - for wherever John was, it was within the timelessness of time where past, present, and future reside within "sight" of each other).

Now I wonder if EVERY planet receives such a "textbook" of universe cosmology? Perhaps at different times of development and perhaps mostly close to or upon approaching Light and Life in "normal" times and places. But why wouldn't they? Such a text would act as an important resource even if not needed as an epochal "revelation" of Truth would it not? Wouldn't EVERY planet and EVERY soul benefit by such a detailed explanation of God and His Truth and Reality and the ascender's journey? Each text would only be individualized by the History of So and So - otherwise about 80% of the Book is the same truth on every planet is it not?

Anyway, something else to speculate on ...... while Larry let's us get away with it! :idea:


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In Revelation 13:8 we learn that during the Tribulation all those whose names are not written in the Lamb's Book of Life will worship the Antichrist: "And all that dwell on the earth shall worship him, every one whose name hath not been written from the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb that hath been slain."

Lastly we learn of the Book of Life in Revelation 20:11-15, the judgment of the Great White Throne, before which only the wicked will appear:

"11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire. 15 And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire."
I just took this from a bible study on the book of life in Revelations. It would seem that this is not the only place the book of life is mentioned. Its interesting to me that the Urantia book verifys the book of life!. John must have actually envisioned this living book/being! :)

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I would like to add that that the 'book of life' is not in question here. most people raised with some degree of christian teachings understand the book of life is some symbol of that keeps a record of our life's achievements.

But to the point which was made a few posts ago as to whether other worlds might also receive something like the Urantia Book. I don't think so. I think our world is so unique, the UB was really a corrective measure, a way to help undue the past of a misguided world where we had not one, but two major defaults at a time when the world was in its infancy - not unlike a child who is abandoned at an early age and then lives with the emotional scars the rest of his life.

But to the point of this thread - did the Bible actually foretell of a new revelation that would come in book form, in fact appearing in a book called The Book of Revelations (the irony is hilarious).

When I post a topic, the question I always ask is "is this thread valuable to the discussion of the merits of the Urantia Book?" And the point of this thread is this: if the Bible did predict the coming of a new revelation in book form, then there might be some Christians who might find comfort in learning this, and perhaps might become more open to the enlarged revelation as presented in TUB - which so many even now seem to fear.

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Hi Jim Watkins

In most of my discussions/study sessions with the Christian's, they do have a clear understanding that, "New Scrolls will be "given" at the end time.

But their Hesitancy with the Urantia Book being " these scrolls " is around the timing of events that must happen before hand.

I will do a bit of research and get back to you on this.

Great topic. Thx

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But, after reading fanovans post, I do agree that such a book like TUB would be immensely valuable for all worlds. Perhaps, because this is an experimental world, and because of our checkered past, the authors, Gabriel, Michael and the Ancients of Days agreed to do a beta test run to see how it would be received.

Decades and centuries from now I can see the Urantia Book will be the central book of instruction in theology, history and philosophy.

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To gumshoe I would respond, I didn't know Christians expect such a scroll. Interesting, indeed.

I look forward to reading your research.

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I think this is a great discussion jwatkins.
I wonder if the 7 seals were to some day become the 7 letters spelling URANTIA.
I do have something to add and not intended to derail this topic you have topic but to mention a paper I wrote about 3 weeks ago at my study table.
This paper is in sync with the idea that John knew that there was something to be given to us after him.
The verse is Revelations 2.17
I have broken down my thoughts on the verse and
I focused on the word -"hidden"- as in, For him that overcometh I will give to him hidden manna.Manna can only be spiritual food.What may be Hidden will be found or discovered only if we overcometh.
We know in heaven all things are to be ,will be revealed and nothing is hidden and all there have already overcometh.
The breakdown of the verse continues on but this verse leads me to believe there is reference to unrevealed spiritual food for the soul. The verse also leads us to a unrevealed name. Except for one that overcometh it remains unrevealed and is not manna . And it must be recieved by the giver.
I have passed this paper out to a few at my work but at work it is a touchy conversation when I suggested in it that this hidden manna or unknown name is not in a traditional holy book.
I can be completely wrong on this but ....I believe John was ,is telling us something.
Thanks for letting me slip this in.


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