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There is much going on in our world today and it is hard to see Gods hand in any of it, but i am sure that was the sentiment many times over through out history.

And one such historical moment that is spoken about in the U.B.,.. that has been a puzzle to me all these year, has been the actions of Abraham ... his roll as the bringer of the “One God Concept” to all the lands, Fostered By Mel (for short).

So many atrocity’s were committed by him and his army’s ... every kind of crime a human can do to another human-being as he ran sacked villages and town to over through them and bring them into the new way.

It is not a far leap to see much that-same-thing happening today...

I for one , can't justify the cruelty to achieve the long tern end.

I Looking to hear what other may have to say, maybe a insight I had not thought-of. but be careful i am attempting applying these insights into present day events. grasping at possibility and understanding.

As for Abraham there is much about his life as it unfolded in the U.B. That bothers me. But I will wait to go there.


Stay True To The Journey


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Yea barry I have had a hard time understanding all that to.

I think of the one war in our entire history that we look at as something that was necessary, and that would our war against the natzi's.

I think maybe something was happening in these surrounding area's where there may have been attrocitie's of a nature that are not revealed to us. What if these surrounding area's were barbarian's and masacring their own people? I dont know? hahahaha. War seem's to be given a different take in the u.b as its sort of inevitable between primitive people's and than as we become more and more civil war is lessened.

It seem's as though war in our day is slightly different than a war back than as well. I imagine abraham and thier people were appaulled by something these surrounding area's were doing, what it was that made them so discusted I do not know, hopefully it wasn't just a racial thing hahaha

I know I personally would go to great lengths to never be involved in war or violence, but perhaps backed into a corner I would defend myself just like the cave man defended himself and his family from the saber-tooth tiger.

This may be a horrible analogy but perhaps the area of abraham was in relation to the surrounding area's extremely advanced, and these surrounding barbaric area's were begining to bear down on them. I dont know. Maybe it was like 300 with a barbarous group led by slaves ready to pounce on a much more progressive culture in the med hahaha and abraham just decided to defend what he saw coming.

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Hay Boom good to see you are still around, and thanks for responding, but insted of me posting a bunch of quotes from the U.B. I would like to ask you to read the papers that speak in lenth on Abraham, aswell as Mel's work with him before i comment on any thing you say.

Hopefully other will chime in as well.


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Hi JB. :) Does the end justify the means? If the means includes violence against other human beings, then the answer must always be No (even in the days of Abraham)..


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Hi JB,

First please forgive my ignorance as I am new to UB.

I think if the means are violence or immoral behavior to others. The answer is no.

Writing from memory I believe Mel counseled Abraham against his wars. However he allowed abraham the freedom to forge his own path.

This is an interesting topic I hope the thread continues.


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Everything changed, it set the coarse that we are now on, when Lucifer rebelled and Caligastia followed, then Adam and Eve's default. The entire groups suffers the ramifications of sin. All throughout the UB are hints that mankind needs to shed superstitious reliance upon God to make the bad things go away and take charge ourselves.

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I agree war is retarted. But I think if people are completely ignorant of all spiritual reality and if they are fundamentally living as a cave man than we can't really look down on them to much, they are just doing what their instincts are telling them to do. In that day and age nobody had the spirit of truth and the thought adjuster was not universal, I could only imagine what a world it was so long ago. I cannot begin to judge what exactly was going on because the landscape of the world would be so different I would have to be living in their shoes to get some idea.

I imagine men in those day's without the thought adjuster and spirit of truth, living shorter life spans were irritated by life at times and were living in superstition and fear. I can't imagine what it would feel like to be in their shoe's.

As it is we send our son's to fight in a war, President Obama and my Prime Minister both send their troops into country's where people are killed but I do not look at these 2 individuals as merciless tyrants, infact I look at them as both having spiritual fruit of some sort's. Nor do I look at the soilder's in our war's today as psycopaths and sociopaths, though I bet alot come back that way after the trauma of having killed someone.

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boomshuka wrote:
I agree war is retarted. But I think if people are completely ignorant of all spiritual reality and if they are fundamentally living as a cave man than we can't really look down on them to much, they are just doing what their instincts are telling them to do. In that day and age nobody had the spirit of truth and the thought adjuster was not universal, I could only imagine what a world it was so long ago. I cannot begin to judge what exactly was going on because the landscape of the world would be so different I would have to be living in their shoes to get some idea.

I imagine men in those day's without the thought adjuster and spirit of truth, living shorter life spans were irritated by life at times and were living in superstition and fear. I can't imagine what it would feel like to be in their shoe's.

As it is we send our son's to fight in a war, President Obama and my Prime Minister both send their troops into country's where people are killed but I do not look at these 2 individuals as merciless tyrants, infact I look at them as both having spiritual fruit of some sort's. Nor do I look at the soilder's in our war's today as psycopaths and sociopaths, though I bet alot come back that way after the trauma of having killed someone.


I couldn't agree more. Very well put!


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Please remember the rules of this forum and keep this discussion theoretical. Invoking Presidents' names - for example - could take this thread down the road of party politics. That would be a no-no.

Refresh your ailing memories by re-reading the rules at: http://forums.truthbook.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3582&p=42424


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Although "war is the natural state and heritage of evolving man" (70:1.1), I don’t think The Urantia Book justifies war. In fact (obviously), TUB rejects violence and war. And war may be inevitable, but it devastates civilization..
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70:1.1 War is the natural state and heritage of evolving man; peace is the social yardstick measuring civilization’s advancement. Before the partial socialization of the advancing races man was exceedingly individualistic, extremely suspicious, and unbelievably quarrelsome. violence is the law of nature, hostility the automatic reaction of the children of nature, while war is but these same activities carried on collectively. And wherever and whenever the fabric of civilization becomes stressed by the complications of society’s advancement, there is always an immediate and ruinous reversion to these early methods of violent adjustment of the irritations of human interassociations.

71:5.1 Competition is essential to social progress, but competition, unregulated, breeds violence. In current society, competition is slowly displacing war in that it determines the individual’s place in industry, as well as decreeing the survival of the industries themselves. (Murder and war differ in their status before the mores, murder having been outlawed since the early days of society, while war has never yet been outlawed by mankind as a whole.)


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Thanks every one for responding to my query.
First my apologezes for not being able to get back to the discussion till now, I work a night shift that runs 12 to 14 hours and has taken over my life, as a result, I am rarely on the computer.

A couple of points to look at:

Mel’s Goal was

1) to prepare the way for Christ's arrival
2) to spread the One God Concept “ El Elyon”

It seems that Abraham’s blood line had been under observations for some time as one of the many Family line that could help carry the message of the coming Son of God. And due to location and merchant roads and a couple of other factors Abraham’s Family line was chosen.

It also seem it took a while to fully swing Abraham over to the path of El Elyon, but all in all he is said to have been one of the best student of Mel’s teachings.

Now there is mention of his blood lust and the many people he killed and city’s he and his troop conquered and how his reign lasted long enough to ensure the One God Concept and the belief that a Son of God was destined to come.

In history he is and in celestial circle held a an important figure in the establishment of God on earth.

But he still committed many crimes to humanity, all which are not necessary to mention.
We all know them ..they are still being committed by army’s all over this planet in the name of some future good. And Who knows maybe 100 years from know ...what ever that future will look like( I'm hoping for the “Era Of Light” but who knows) they may say, it was all worth it...but in my heart I ach at the idea that women and children had to suffer the worst crime another human could do to an other just so civilization could advance..and if that is what it take to advance ..can we really call it “Civilization” or rather >Barbarization?


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Hummm... did some thought or soure taste in the dialogue accure to stop it's movement?


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I think Abraham was a child of his time. Hence, his initial preoccupation with war and violence. We evolved from mere animals into self-conscious human beings. The days of Abraham may represent a similar turning point of our general evolution into God-conscious beings..


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I want so much to believe that, but I am having a hard time seeing the evidence there-of.


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Well, I think it is the view/theory presented by the revelators. :) But I agree that God-consciousness is not very obviously a characteristic of current society/humanity..


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