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 Post subject: Religious Fantasy
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I write this not to be negative, but to discuss a serious subject. Being a Christian myself for many years I know how easily it is to slip into a religious fantasy, especially when it is perpetuated by the church. But, since finding the UB, I have woken up to the truth and have tried to stay grounded in what I believe to be reality. I still think others new to the UB are holding on to religious fantasy.

Let’s look at some of those wrong beliefs…

1. There is a devil and he makes me do bad things.

“(753.2) 66:8.6 The doctrine of a personal devil on Urantia, though it had some foundation in the planetary presence of the traitorous and iniquitous Caligastia, was nevertheless wholly fictitious in its teachings that such a “devil” could influence the normal human mind against its free and natural choosing. Even before Michael’s bestowal on Urantia, neither Caligastia nor Daligastia was ever able to oppress mortals or to coerce any normal individual into doing anything against the human will. The free will of man is supreme in moral affairs; even the indwelling Thought Adjuster refuses to compel man to think a single thought or to perform a single act against the choosing of man’s own will.”

2. We will all go to a magical heaven and live in a mansion.

“(553.4) 48:6.23 You should consider the statement about “heaven” and the “heaven of heavens.” The heaven conceived by most of your prophets was the first of the mansion worlds of the local system. When the apostle spoke of being “caught up to the third heaven,” he referred to that experience in which his Adjuster was detached during sleep and in this unusual state made a projection to the third of the seven mansion worlds. Some of your wise men saw the vision of the greater heaven, “the heaven of heavens,” of which the sevenfold mansion world experience was but the first; the second being Jerusem; the third, Edentia and its satellites; the fourth, Salvington and the surrounding educational spheres; the fifth, Uversa; the sixth, Havona; and the seventh, Paradise.”

“As the term heaven has been used on Urantia, it has sometimes meant these seven mansion worlds, the first mansion world being denominated the first heaven, and so on to the seventh.”

“Sometimes all training worlds of mortal residence are called universe "mansions," and it was to such spheres that Jesus alluded when he said: "In my Father's house are many mansions."

3. Say some magic words and believe in Jesus and you are saved.

(1447.1) 131:3.4 “Cheerfulness and gladness are the rewards of deeds well done and to the glory of the Immortal. No man can rob you of the liberty of your own mind. When the faith of your religion has emancipated your heart, when the mind, like a mountain, is settled and immovable, then shall the peace of the soul flow tranquilly like a river of waters. Those who are sure of salvation are forever free from lust, envy, hatred, and the delusions of wealth. While faith is the energy of the better life, nevertheless, must you work out your own salvation with perseverance. If you would be certain of your final salvation, then make sure that you sincerely seek to fulfill all righteousness. Cultivate the assurance of the heart which springs from within and thus come to enjoy the ecstasy of eternal salvation.”

4. You can pray for healing, money, or other material things and you will get them.

“(999.5) 91:6.2 Prayer is not a technique for curing real and organic diseases, but it has contributed enormously to the enjoyment of abundant health and to the cure of numerous mental, emotional, and nervous ailments. And even in actual bacterial disease, prayer has many times added to the efficacy of other remedial procedures. Prayer has turned many an irritable and complaining invalid into a paragon of patience and made him an inspiration to all other human sufferers.”

(999. 91:6.5 “Do not be so slothful as to ask God to solve your difficulties, but never hesitate to ask him for wisdom and spiritual strength to guide and sustain you while you yourself resolutely and courageously attack the problems at hand.”

(1002.5) 91:8.13 “Prayer is not a technique of escape from conflict but rather a stimulus to growth in the very face of conflict. Pray only for values, not things; for growth, not for gratification.”

5. God and angels want us to live a life of ease and pleasure.

“They are not interested in making the mortal career easy; rather are they concerned in making your life reasonably difficult and rugged, so that decisions will be stimulated and multiplied.”

“The greatest affliction of the cosmos is never to have been afflicted. Mortals only learn wisdom by experiencing tribulation.”

(558.1) 48:8.3” The mortal-survival plan has a practical and serviceable objective; you are not the recipients of all this divine labor and painstaking training only that you may survive just to enjoy endless bliss and eternal ease.”

6. When we get to the next world, we will live with our loved ones and there will be just singing and praising God for eternity.

(32:5.7) “On Urantia (earth) you pass through a short and intense test during your initial life of material existence. On the mansion worlds and up through your system, constellation, and local universe, you traverse the morontia phases of ascension. On the training worlds of the superuniverse you pass through the true spirit stages of progression and are prepared for eventual transit to Havona. On the seven circuits of Havona your attainment is intellectual, spiritual, and experiential. And there is a definite task to be achieved on each of the worlds of each of these circuits.

“This training of mind and education of spirit is carried on from the worlds of human origin up through the system mansion worlds and the other spheres of progress associated with Jerusem, on the seventy socializing realms attached to Edentia, and on the four hundred and ninety spheres of spirit progress encircling Salvington. On the universe headquarters itself are numerous Melchizedek schools, the colleges of the Universe Sons, the seraphic universities, and the schools of the Teacher Sons and the Union of Days. Every possible provision is made to qualify the various personalities of the universe for advancing service and improving function. The entire universe is one vast school.”

7. God is an angry God and punishes you for sinning.

(2017.3) 188:4.8 “When once you grasp the idea of God as a true and loving Father, the only concept which Jesus ever taught, you must forthwith, in all consistency, utterly abandon all those primitive notions about God as an offended monarch, a stern and all-powerful ruler whose chief delight is to detect his subjects in wrongdoing and to see that they are adequately punished, unless some being almost equal to himself should volunteer to suffer for them, to die as a substitute and in their stead. The whole idea of ransom and atonement is incompatible with the concept of God as it was taught and exemplified by Jesus of Nazareth. The infinite love of God is not secondary to anything in the divine nature.”

(1830.3) 166:4.3 “All too long have your fathers believed that prosperity was the token of divine approval; that adversity was the proof of God’s displeasure. I declare that such beliefs are superstitions.”

8. Jesus died on the cross as a sacrifice for our sins.

(2016.6) 188:4.1 “Although Jesus did not die this death on the cross to atone for the racial guilt of mortal man nor to provide some sort of effective approach to an otherwise offended and unforgiving God; even though the Son of Man did not offer himself as a sacrifice to appease the wrath of God and to open the way for sinful man to obtain salvation; notwithstanding that these ideas of atonement and propitiation are erroneous, nonetheless, there are significances attached to this death of Jesus on the cross which should not be overlooked. It is a fact that Urantia has become known among other neighboring inhabited planets as the “World of the Cross.”

(2019.6) 188:5.13 “We know that the death on the cross was not to effect man’s reconciliation to God but to stimulate man’s realization of the Father’s eternal love and his Son’s unending mercy, and to broadcast these universal truths to a whole universe.”

(2017.2) 188:4.7 “Though it is hardly proper to speak of Jesus as a sacrificer, a ransomer, or a redeemer, it is wholly correct to refer to him as a savior. He forever made the way of salvation (survival) more clear and certain; he did better and more surely show the way of salvation for all the mortals of all the worlds of the universe of Nebadon.”

9. You are guaranteed life after death.

(26.1) 1:3.7 “In the inner experience of man, mind is joined to matter. Such material-linked minds cannot survive mortal death. The technique of survival is embraced in those adjustments of the human will and those transformations in the mortal mind whereby such a God-conscious intellect gradually becomes spirit taught and eventually spirit led. This evolution of the human mind from matter association to spirit union results in the transmutation of the potentially spirit phases of the mortal mind into the morontia realities of the immortal soul. Mortal mind subservient to matter is destined to become increasingly material and consequently to suffer eventual personality extinction; mind yielded to spirit is destined to become increasingly spiritual and ultimately to achieve oneness with the surviving and guiding divine spirit and in this way to attain survival and eternity of personality existence.”

(1218.9) 111:3.1 The mistakes of mortal mind and the errors of human conduct may markedly delay the evolution of the soul, although they cannot inhibit such a morontia phenomenon when once it has been initiated by the indwelling Adjuster with the consent of the creature will. But at any time prior to mortal death this same material and human will is empowered to rescind such a choice and to reject survival. Even after survival the ascending mortal still retains this prerogative of choosing to reject eternal life; at any time before fusion with the Adjuster the evolving and ascending creature can choose to forsake the will of the Paradise Father. Fusion with the Adjuster signalizes the fact that the ascending mortal has eternally and unreservedly chosen to do the Father’s will.

10. Your adjuster is there to comfort you.

(1192.1) 108:5.6 Your transient and ever-changing emotions of joy and sorrow are in the main purely human and material reactions to your internal psychic climate and to your external material environment. Do not, therefore, look to the Adjuster for selfish consolation and mortal comfort. It is the business of the Adjuster to prepare you for the eternal adventure, to assure your survival. It is not the mission of the Mystery Monitor to smooth your ruffled feelings or to minister to your injured pride; it is the preparation of your soul for the long ascending career that engages the attention and occupies the time of the Adjuster.

(1192.3) 108:5.8 The Thought Adjusters would like to change your feelings of fear to convictions of love and confidence; but they cannot mechanically and arbitrarily do such things; that is your task. In executing those decisions which deliver you from the fetters of fear, you literally supply the psychic fulcrum on which the Adjuster may subsequently apply a spiritual lever of uplifting and advancing illumination.



Hopefully, you are not one of those who cling to religious fantasy. Instead I hope you have accepted the universe reality of Urantia and your spiritual career.

Peace and Love,

Freethinker :smile:


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Despite being a 'religionist', these are among the few reasons that drove me to seek better clarification to the many concepts carried by religions; christianity especially. May it be the the Bible or any other religious books, and now reinforced by TUB, they pointed to the fact of the importance of religion in the life of ascended mortals if they choose/want to survive after this. To me, religious fantasy it is not but oversimlplified version it is.

I would rather it coined 'simplistic religious concept defined/explained'. The Bible, in my opinion/reading, was never purely at odd/contradict in its concept with TUB as far as what was put forth by freethinker here, but rather, one is superficial/fragmented in its version while the other is more informed/detailed; both has its own strength and weaknessess. The Bible fare much worst in this sense for being too fragmented it its details and out of time in its many concepts, but this never makes it false it its essence so as amounting to authoring fantasy into the mind of christians/religionist. Basic and simplified it maybe, the crux of it still contain the essence of human spiritual adventure and destiny, the same problems addressed in TUB, albeit in different presentation. For example, the Bible can only afford to give a simplistic version of heaven, life after death, God, angles/son of gods,Creation, service and growth etc.Why? -one is inspired or written by man of that period and time while other was revealed.Befitting its revealed status, we must expect to see and know from it different/oddities or at times awe inspiring concepts and knowlegde of comparison, but despite of the some minor seeming disharmony between the two, on the other hand, they compliment each other almost in all o the vast concepts and issues contained. If this is true, and that religionist are fantasy dwelling group of human kind,then by the same token, TUB also has its hand in perpetuating such belief system and both books are borne of fantacy.

The so called religious fantasy is fantasy only to the unreligious. It is not a fantasy in its concept and essence(unless Bible and TUB are fantasy) but it sounds so only in its understanding and details; eg heaven is not a fantasy, and so is life/existence after death, service in the world to come, the rea;lity of God and Jesus etc; these the Bible fails to defined further;.when Jesus mentioned of mansions in his father's home, it could only be expected that man of that period interprete and understands, and thus wrote, accordingly; then the blame is on Jesus for not being detailed and straigth forward with his narrations? It is we thought that we knew and saw better only after reading from a better source,TUB, this does not relegate the religionist basic concept of heaven, paradise, life after death, God the Father, Angels and divinity amounting to fantacy; details, maybe.

If TUB is to be the referent, yes, the Bible gave a distorted and incomplete version of Adam and Eve/ the Edens, the creation, the heavens, the mansion worlds, the resurrection, life after death and others;but it do not amount to fantasy of a religious belief when both books speaks in complimentary of each other of the same essence.Indeed it seems incompatible when we try to connect a simplistic religious christian belief (other religions are far more different) with what is in TUB; does this rendered the belief fantacy?(BTW, things spiritual and faith, thus religion all belong to the realm of 'fantasy'/unknown but yet all faiths, religious books, Bible and TUB stressed the importance of religion to humankind! what an 'irony.' of fantasy)

Some source stated that there are now more than 1,011, may be more;sects of christian churches in the world today. The fact is, not all of these sects. truly read and use the Bible as some others did, thus the version and knowledged and understanding of their christian religion. As a result, they would most often prefer to settle with the more convinient and simplistic version/system given out by their leaders. I personally have a hard time trying to tell my congregation of not to adopt a very simplistic-materialist preferences of approach to their God and their religion; it is harder still with the simple minded folks of the group; but what can i do ( even the supposedly more advanced American leaders in our US HQ belongs to the same sets of mind) I guess having such experience with such group of people, the Bible and TuB, gave me a different perspective on this 'religious fantasy'.; but then again, this is my personal opinion.


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Sorry, maybe fantasy wasn't the correct word to use.....maybe misguidings.

The Bible probably originally contained a clearer picture similar to TUB, but somewhere along the line the church changed it.

The Bible is now wrong on many subjects pertaining to Jesus and salvation. The one that sticks with me after studying TUB is the concept of salvation. The church wanted me to believe that all i had to do is say some magic words and believe that Jesus died for my sins and I was saved. This couldn't be farther from the truth.

First, Jesus did not die for my sins. A sovereign loving God did not need a blood sacrifice to forgive his children...in fact TUB tells us he abhors blood sacrifices. Original sin is a fallacy. Jesus came to show us how to save ourselves by believing the way he did. The church changed one statement and changed a religion. The Bible was supposed to say " believe as me" and the church changed it to say "believe IN me".

A lot of Christians think that once they are saved they can continue doing whatever they want thinking they are saved. The TUB tells us to work out our own salvation by ridding ourselves of all those things that inhibit spiritual growth and that are contrary to Gods will. Just believing you are saved isn't going to get you into the next life. You need to stop doing all those things that constitute evil, sin, or iniquity.


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4. THE TALK WITH NATHANIEL

159:4.1 And then went Jesus over to Abila, where Nathaniel and his associates labored. Nathaniel was much bothered by some of Jesus’ pronouncements which seemed to detract from the authority of the recognized Hebrew scriptures. Accordingly, on this night, after the usual period of questions and answers, Nathaniel took Jesus away from the others and asked: “Master, could you trust me to know the truth about the Scriptures? I observe that you teach us only a portion of the sacred writings—the best as I view it—and I infer that you reject the teachings of the rabbis to the effect that the words of the law are the very words of God, having been with God in heaven even before the times of Abraham and Moses. What is the truth about the Scriptures?” When Jesus heard the question of his bewildered apostle, he answered:

159:4.2 "Nathaniel, you have rightly judged; I do not regard the Scriptures as do the rabbis. I will talk with you about this matter on condition that you do not relate these things to your brethren, who are not all prepared to receive this teaching. The words of the law of Moses and the teachings of the Scriptures were not in existence before Abraham. Only in recent times have the Scriptures been gathered together as we now have them. While they contain the best of the higher thoughts and longings of the Jewish people, they also contain much that is far from being representative of the character and teachings of the Father in heaven; wherefore must I choose from among the better teachings those truths which are to be gleaned for the gospel of the kingdom.

159:4.3 “These writings are the work of men, some of them holy men, others not so holy. The teachings of these books represent the views and extent of enlightenment of the time in which they had their origin. As a revelation of truth, the last are more dependable than the first. The Scriptures are faulty and altogether human in origin, but mistake not, they do constitute the best collection of religious wisdom and spiritual truth to be found in all the world at this time.

159:4.4 “Many of these books were not written by the persons whose names they bear, but that in no way detracts from the value of the truths which they contain. If the story of Jonah should not be a fact, even if Jonah had never lived, still would the profound truth of this narrative, the love of God for Nineveh and the so-called heathen, be none the less precious in the eyes of all those who love their fellow men. The Scriptures are sacred because they present the thoughts and acts of men who were searching for God, and who in these writings left on record their highest concepts of righteousness, truth, and holiness. The Scriptures contain much that is true, very much, but in the light of your present teaching, you know that these writings also contain much that is misrepresentative of the Father in heaven, the loving God I have come to reveal to all the worlds.

159:4.5 "Nathaniel, never permit yourself for one moment to believe the Scripture records which tell you that the God of love directed your forefathers to go forth in battle to slay all their enemies—men, women, and children. Such records are the words of men, not very holy men, and they are not the word of God. The Scriptures always have, and always will, reflect the intellectual, moral, and spiritual status of those who create them. Have you not noted that the concepts of Yahweh grow in beauty and glory as the prophets make their records from Samuel to Isaiah? And you should remember that the Scriptures are intended for religious instruction and spiritual guidance. They are not the works of either historians or philosophers.

159:4.6 “The thing most deplorable is not merely this erroneous idea of the absolute perfection of the Scripture record and the infallibility of its teachings, but rather the confusing misinterpretation of these sacred writings by the tradition-enslaved scribes and Pharisees at Jerusalem. And now will they employ both the doctrine of the inspiration of the Scriptures and their misinterpretations thereof in their determined effort to withstand these newer teachings of the gospel of the kingdom. Nathaniel, never forget, the Father does not limit the revelation of truth to any one generation or to any one people. Many earnest seekers after the truth have been, and will continue to be, confused and disheartened by these doctrines of the perfection of the Scriptures.

159:4.7 “The authority of truth is the very spirit that indwells its living manifestations, and not the dead words of the less illuminated and supposedly inspired men of another generation. And even if these holy men of old lived inspired and spirit-filled lives, that does not mean that their words were similarly spiritually inspired. Today we make no record of the teachings of this gospel of the kingdom lest, when I have gone, you speedily become divided up into sundry groups of truth contenders as a result of the diversity of your interpretation of my teachings. For this generation it is best that we live these truths while we shun the making of records.

159:4.8 “Mark you well my words, Nathaniel, nothing which human nature has touched can be regarded as infallible. Through the mind of man divine truth may indeed shine forth, but always of relative purity and partial divinity. The creature may crave infallibility, but only the Creators possess it.

159:4.9 “But the greatest error of the teaching about the Scripture is the doctrine of their being sealed books of mystery and wisdom which only the wise minds of the nation dare to interpret. The revelations of divine truth are not sealed except by human ignorance, bigotry, and narrow-minded intolerance. The light of the Scriptures is only dimmed by prejudice and darkened by superstition. A false fear of sacredness has prevented religion from being safeguarded by common sense. The fear of the authority of the sacred writings of the past effectively prevents the honest souls of today from accepting the new light of the gospel, the light which these very God-knowing men of another generation so intensely longed to see.

159:4.10 “But the saddest feature of all is the fact that some of the teachers of the sanctity of this traditionalism know this very truth. They more or less fully understand these limitations of Scripture, but they are moral cowards, intellectually dishonest. They know the truth regarding the sacred writings, but they prefer to withhold such disturbing facts from the people. And thus do they pervert and distort the Scriptures, making them the guide to slavish details of the daily life and an authority in things nonspiritual instead of appealing to the sacred writings as the repository of the moral wisdom, religious inspiration, and the spiritual teaching of the God-knowing men of other generations.”

159:4.11 Nathaniel was enlightened, and shocked, by the Master’s pronouncement. He long pondered this talk in the depths of his soul, but he told no man concerning this conference until after Jesus’ ascension; and even then he feared to impart the full story of the Master’s instruction.


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thanks freethinker67 and
amen, coop.


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159:4.10 “But the saddest feature of all is the fact that some of the teachers of the sanctity of this traditionalism know this very truth. They more or less fully understand these limitations of Scripture, but they are moral cowards, intellectually dishonest. They know the truth regarding the sacred writings, but they prefer to withhold such disturbing facts from the people.

I dont want to be one of those people...


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Thanks for the inspiring discussion and many important points!

Having read the Bible twice through, I begun thinking of how many of these misunderstandings are actually in the Bible and how many of them are in the interpretations made by churches and denominations during the centuries since. So I ended up doing some research of my own.

The main point I begun studying was what the Bible teaches about Jesus' role in redeeming the sins of humans. I used the Cruden's Compact Concordance that happens to be on my bookshelf. Interestingly enough, the word "sin" is mentioned very scarcely in the Gospels (twice in Matthew, 10 times in John but none in Mark or Luke). However, the rest the New Testament uses "sin" about twice as much as the Old Testament and the Gospels put together. This would be consistent with the fact that the Jews considered sin an important issue and that the (mostly Jews) in the original church explained Jesus' incarnation through the same concept - even though his life was not really centered around it.

The words "redeem", "redeemer", "redemption" and other forms of it were almost exclusively used in the Old Testament, with only four uses in the Gospels, all of them in Luke. The rest of the New Testament uses these words 15 times, which are about one tenth of the uses in the Old Testament.

The word "sacrifice" (as a noun and a verb as well as "sacrified" and "sacrifices") are again used mostly in the Old Testament. In the Gospels it is used only four times, twice in Mark and twice in Luke. The rest of the New Testament uses it 26 times, again about one tenth of what it is used in the Old Testament.

The only place in the New Testament that I have so far found and that supports that Jesus was sacrificed to redeem us from our sins, is in Hebrew (again relating to Jews), 9:12-28. This text seems to explain to the Jews how their need for sacrifices has come to an end, with Jesus making a larger sacrifice than any human could ever make. It is not trying to create a new dogma, but instead help the Jews see how they could accept Jesus!

However, if this doctrine (of Jesus' sacrifice to redeem us from the original sin) is the most important teaching in Christianity, you would suppose it would be easier to find it in the Bible, wouldn't you? There are a lot of verses telling to "be in Christ", "Jesus giving us the eternal life" and even "Jesus saving us", but they are not actually requiring the Sacrifice having taken place.

Interestingly enough, the word "save" is used as many times in the Gospels as in the rest of the New Testament. Considering that Gospels comprise less than half of the pages in the New Testament, I'd say this is significant. But even more, three fourths of the uses of the word are in the Old Testament. Also, interesting is that for the form "saved", three fourths of the uses are in the New Testament, almost half of them in the Gospels. So Jews were expecting a Savior whom they got in Jesus, or at least interpreted it so.

I know that looking up the frequencies of specific words does not tell the whole story, but it does paint a certain picture, doesn't it? My conclusion is that Jesus' teaching got evaluated against the Old Testament. And where they agreed, Christianity took them but where they disagreed, Christianity ended up taking a version of the Jewish teachings instead, even when they are mentioned very little in the New Testament.

This is, in fact, consistent with what TUB tells about the life of Jesus - he got constantly misunderstood even by his disciples, in the view of the Jewish expectations of the Messiah.


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pertti wrote:
The only place in the New Testament that I have so far found and that supports that Jesus was sacrificed to redeem us from our sins, is in Hebrew (again relating to Jews), 9:12-28.


Having done some more research, I found these verses in the Gospels:
Matthew 26:27-28 - "Then he took a cup, gave thanks to God, and gave it to them. 'Drink it, all of you', he said; 'this is my blood, which seals God's covenant, my blood poured out for many for the foregiveness of sins'".
Mark 14:23-26 repeating almost the same words as Matthew
Luke 22:22 - "This cup is God's new covenant sealed with my blood, which is poured out for you".

So far I have not found anything in John.

TUB describes the same event as:

(1938.1) 179:2.2 After the wine and the water had been mixed, they brought the cup to Jesus, who, when he had received it from the hand of Thaddeus, held it while he offered thanks. And when he had finished offering thanks, he said: “Take this cup and divide it among yourselves and, when you partake of it, realize that I shall not again drink with you the fruit of the vine since this is our last supper. When we sit down again in this manner, it will be in the kingdom to come.”

So, it seems that already at the time of writing the Gospels, there was a common understanding of Jesus having been sacrified because of the sins of the humanity. Notably John, who wrote the most spiritual Gospel, does not mention this dogma.


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Apparently, it can be argued that Paul introduced so-called covenant theology (remission of sin by adhering to Church dogma) only to keep converted Jews from turning back to Judaism..
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Paul introduced the subject of the Church in Matthew 16:18: "I will build My Church," but He did not explain it. That He would do through Paul to the members of His Body. The explanation of the Church's Eternal Covenant is the responsibility of Paul, the primary source of Church truth.
[…]
The primary purpose of the Book of Hebrews was to keep the Jews, both saved and unsaved, from turning back to Judaism and the law, the old decaying Mosaic Covenant. They were exhorted to focus, not on the Covenant, but the Mediator of a better covenant.
[…]
Men are placed under Israel's New Covenant which does not go beyond remission of sins and the law written on the heart. But being new creations in Christ Jesus, and knowing it by the Holy Spirit, and what that involves now--that is not a part of their creed.

(from: http://withchrist.org/mjs/israelsnc.htm)


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(1543.1) 138:6.3 Jesus endeavored to make clear to his apostles the difference between his teachings and his life among them and the teachings which might subsequently spring up about him. Said Jesus: “My kingdom and the gospel related thereto shall be the burden of your message. Be not sidetracked into preaching about me and about my teachings. Proclaim the gospel of the kingdom and portray my revelation of the Father in heaven but do not be misled into the bypaths of creating legends and building up a cult having to do with beliefs and teachings about my beliefs and teachings.” But again they did not understand why he thus spoke, and no man dared to ask why he so taught them.

(1543.2) 138:6.4 In these early teachings Jesus sought to avoid controversies with his apostles as far as possible excepting those involving wrong concepts of his Father in heaven. In all such matters he never hesitated to correct erroneous beliefs. There was just one motive in Jesus’ postbaptismal life on Urantia, and that was a better and truer revelation of his Paradise Father; he was the pioneer of the new and better way to God, the way of faith and love. Ever his exhortation to the apostles was: “Go seek for the sinners; find the downhearted and comfort the anxious.”

(1543.3) 138:6.5 Jesus had a perfect grasp of the situation; he possessed unlimited power, which might have been utilized in the furtherance of his mission, but he was wholly content with means and personalities which most people would have regarded as inadequate and would have looked upon as insignificant. He was engaged in a mission of enormous dramatic possibilities, but he insisted on going about his Father’s business in the most quiet and undramatic manner; he studiously avoided all display of power. And he now planned to work quietly, at least for several months, with his twelve apostles around about the Sea of Galilee.

and this...

(1767.4) 159:4.2 “Nathaniel, you have rightly judged; I do not regard the Scriptures as do the rabbis. I will talk with you about this matter on condition that you do not relate these things to your brethren, who are not all prepared to receive this teaching. The words of the law of Moses and the teachings of the Scriptures were not in existence before Abraham. Only in recent times have the Scriptures been gathered together as we now have them. While they contain the best of the higher thoughts and longings of the Jewish people, they also contain much that is far from being representative of the character and teachings of the Father in heaven; wherefore must I choose from among the better teachings those truths which are to be gleaned for the gospel of the kingdom.

(1767.5) 159:4.3 “These writings are the work of men, some of them holy men, others not so holy. The teachings of these books represent the views and extent of enlightenment of the times in which they had their origin. As a revelation of truth, the last are more dependable than the first. The Scriptures are faulty and altogether human in origin, but mistake not, they do constitute the best collection of religious wisdom and spiritual truth to be found in all the world at this time.

(1767.6) 159:4.4 “Many of these books were not written by the persons whose names they bear, but that in no way detracts from the value of the truths which they contain. If the story of Jonah should not be a fact, even if Jonah had never lived, still would the profound truth of this narrative, the love of God for Nineveh and the so-called heathen, be none the less precious in the eyes of all those who love their fellow men. The Scriptures are sacred because they present the thoughts and acts of men who were searching for God, and who in these writings left on record their highest concepts of righteousness, truth, and holiness. The Scriptures contain much that is true, very much, but in the light of your present teaching, you know that these writings also contain much that is misrepresentative of the Father in heaven, the loving God I have come to reveal to all the worlds.


PS. If you want to search the Bible and all of its different versions, go here. www.biblegateway.com


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Paul Was The Great Compromiser.
His Erroneous Teachings about blood and sacrifice Etc
Later Became The Christian Churchs Dogmas ,
He Never Dreamt that His Personal Letters to His Churchs
Would Become Teachings of A Bible , New Testement .
His Personal Erroneous Beliefs and Interpretations became
Teachings ABOUT Jesus , Instead of The Religion OF Jesus .
Albeit His Intentions were Good .

Its Really A Shame That Abner Wasnt Much More Popular
and maybe more of a Zealot with more followers .
Instead He Lived In The Shadow of Paul .

YET '' His theologic compromises indicate that even revelation must submit to the graduated control of evolution. ''

Im Thankful That The Urantia Papers Have Clarified and
Corrected The Many False an Erroneous Teachings Of The Past .

89:9.3 The ancient social brotherhoods were based on the rite of blood drinking; the early Jewish fraternity was a sacrificial blood affair. Paul started out to build a new Christian cult on “the blood of the everlasting covenant.” And while he may have unnecessarily encumbered Christianity with teachings about blood and sacrifice, he did once and for all make an end of the doctrines of redemption through human or animal sacrifices. His theologic compromises indicate that even revelation must submit to the graduated control of evolution. According to Paul, Christ became the last and all-sufficient human sacrifice; the divine Judge is now fully and forever satisfied.


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freethinker67 wrote:
PS. If you want to search the Bible and all of its different versions, go here. http://www.biblegateway.com


Thanks for the link! I found one verse that Cruden's did not list:

Matthew 9:13
But go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, not sacrifice.’ For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners.”

This one clearly amplifies the TUB message!


Last edited by pertti on Fri Jul 29, 2011 11:35 pm +0000, edited 1 time in total.

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coop wrote:
89:9.3 The ancient social brotherhoods were based on the rite of blood drinking; the early Jewish fraternity was a sacrificial blood affair. Paul started out to build a new Christian cult on “the blood of the everlasting covenant.” And while he may have unnecessarily encumbered Christianity with teachings about blood and sacrifice, he did once and for all make an end of the doctrines of redemption through human or animal sacrifices. His theologic compromises indicate that even revelation must submit to the graduated control of evolution. According to Paul, Christ became the last and all-sufficient human sacrifice; the divine Judge is now fully and forever satisfied.


That (ending all blood sacrifices), in itself a remarkable achievement, and probably was the best possible outcome at the circumstances!

Yet, I have been very much burdened by the fetisshic: "In the blood and name of Jesus your sins are forgiven!" that seems to be often used by fanatic sects (at least in this part of the world). Now that I understand how things came around, I no longer feel being coerced into accepting something I cannot, but instead feel sorry for those people who need to go through "the cumbersome method" into God's grace.

For me, this part of the teachings in Christianity - along with "forelasting burden of the original sin, even under God's grace" - has been the most difficult to handle. In fact, I ceased being a Christian about 15 years ago. At the time my understanding of the issue was that "you cannot perform good deeds with a clean conscience" (but instead need to live in constant fear of sinning and constantly doubt of my own motives). After a few years I became a Neopagan and found deliverance there from this scourge.

But now I see that the Spirit of Truth in conjunction with my Thought Adjuster were already working back then, leading me into deeper Truths. This - among other similar experiences - is a weighty confirmation of the existence of the Thought Adjuster to me.


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I think that the primary message of The Urantia Book is that Truth can only be found within yourself. Truth is personal and (thus) it cannot be found in any (external) covenant or law or dogma. Yet, people prefer simple solutions, such as the idea of instant salvation by adhering to some creed or church..


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Thank you Freethinker67, Pertti, Babuk, Coop and Bart .

A lively discussion with research.

It was a pleasure reading your posts.

Thanks again.

_________________
Rajan C Mathew, India.
Guide Us Father to Live according to Your Plans !
http://rajan-c-mathew.blogspot.in


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