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112:5.9 This does not mean that human beings are to enjoy a second opportunity in the face of the rejection of a first, not at all.

Heres the Rest of the Quote :arrow:
But it does signify that all will creatures are to experience one true opportunity to make one undoubted, self-conscious, and final choice. The sovereign Judges of the universes will not deprive any being of personality status who has not finally and fully made the eternal choice; the soul of man must and will be given full and ample opportunity to reveal its true intent and real purpose.

Before One Can Make that Final Choice Of Personality
Survival or Extinction as if they Never Were ,
'' the soul of man must and will be given full and ample opportunity to reveal its true intent and real purpose.''
One Must Fully Know and Realise The Results AND
That Their Final and Eternal Choice will Be
FINAL .

The So called Devil of Urantia , Caligastia Has No Real
Power , only to those that would Invite Him In .
He Is Cosmicly Insane and one would have to
Not Have A Normal Mind to Allow his stain of darkness
into their Life .

The Devil Made me Do it , has been mans cry for
Far too long , too long Has The Devil been mans
Scapegoat . Man Has The Gift of Freewill Choice To Choose .
Mankind Is Still only Semi Civilized
And His animal nature and his/her Selfishness ,
Is the Cause an Effects of the vast Evils to
Mans Inhumanity to Man .

The Seven deadly sins ;
Pride is excessive belief in one's own abilities, that interferes with the individual's recognition of the grace of God. It has been called the sin from which all others arise. Pride is also known as Vanity.

Envy is the desire for others' traits, status, abilities, or situation.

Gluttony is an inordinate desire to consume more than that which one requires.

Lust is an inordinate craving for the pleasures of the body.

Anger is manifested in the individual who spurns love and opts instead for fury. It is also known as Wrath.

Greed is the desire for material wealth or gain, ignoring the realm of the spiritual. It is also called Avarice or Covetousness.

Sloth is the avoidance of physical or spiritual work.

In Truth , Urantia Is Caligastias Prison World ,
He Floats about in the Darkness in the Sea of inequity
looking for victims to sell his Poisoned Kool Aid
too.

He is Impotent Not Important .


Last edited by coop on Thu Jun 23, 2011 7:23 pm +0000, edited 2 times in total.

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If one is caught in a web of lies, is it a "true opportunity"?

Even the Catholic Church has modified its dogma "extra ecclesiam nulla salus" in recognition that some people, due to conditions beyond their control, never get a "true opportunity" to enter the Church. For them, the Church has coined the term "baptism of desre".

I think the bottom line is that we are not in a position to say who has decisively rejected survival.

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The fact is that we're stuck with Cal. and we have to deal with it. 8)

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I find this discussion very interesting!

coop wrote:
112:5.9 This does not mean that human beings are to enjoy a second opportunity in the face of the rejection of a first, not at all.

Heres the Rest of the Quote :arrow:
But it does signify that all will creatures are to experience one true opportunity to make one undoubted, self-conscious, and final choice. The sovereign Judges of the universes will not deprive any being of personality status who has not finally and fully made the eternal choice; the soul of man must and will be given full and ample opportunity to reveal its true intent and real purpose.


Here's the verse that actually starts the discussion that the above one ends:

(1233.2) 112:5.6 Though the cosmic circles of personality growth must eventually be attained, if, through no fault of your own, the accidents of time and the handicaps of material existence prevent your mastering these levels on your native planet, if your intentions and desires are of survival value, there are issued the decrees of probation extension. You will be afforded additional time in which to prove yourself.

and here are the two intervening verses:

(1233.3) 112:5.7 If ever there is doubt as to the advisability of advancing a human identity to the mansion worlds, the universe governments invariably rule in the personal interests of that individual; they unhesitatingly advance such a soul to the status of a transitional being, while they continue their observations of the emerging morontia intent and spiritual purpose. Thus divine justice is certain of achievement, and divine mercy is accorded further opportunity for extending its ministry.

(1233.4) 112:5.8 The governments of Orvonton and Nebadon do not claim absolute perfection for the detail working of the universal plan of mortal repersonalization, but they do claim to, and actually do, manifest patience, tolerance, understanding, and merciful sympathy. We had rather assume the risk of a system rebellion than to court the hazard of depriving one struggling mortal from any evolutionary world of the eternal joy of pursuing the ascending career.


I have absolute faith in that we will be fairly judged. God and Though Adjuster know what is going on in me, in fact, even better than I do. They have shown it already in my past, guiding me to the right direction, helping me make the right choices, even when I wasn't aware of their work. Now that I am, they will be able to do it even more.

I see that there are questions that are bigger than I am, thus I will not be able to anwer them. The question of Caligastia being one of them. However, I don't see that as the biggest question - not even with a wide margin. Questions regarding the workings of the Universe in terms of good and evil, free choice and judgement go well beyond that one.

This does not mean, however, that I don't consider this question important or relevant. It is. And it is very crucial to people in Urantia. Even though it has not been fully answered, the discussion has so far been able to illuminate the situation to me quite a lot.

I firmly believe that not a single soul will be eternally lost due to Caligastia remaining on Urantia. The quotations above testify to that.


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Rsarmast wrote:
Our lives would be no different had Caligastia been taken after the Pentecost. Our planet would still be in quarantine, the shrewd and wicked would still be in charge, and there would still be too few shepherds to do anything about it. Maybe the wolves wouldn't be quite as organized or crazed as they are, but in the end, the righteous would still be protected as they are today and the challenges would still be insurmountable due to the inertial effects of the rebellion.

54:3.3 "And the Ancients of Days refuse to annihilate any being until all moral values and all spiritual realities are extinct, both in the evildoer and in all related supporters and possible sympathizers."

The end of this ugly age will come faster because he is still here. No use doubting the wisdom of the gods.

Catching up on a few of the threads, my sense is that Behz's insight reflects the wisdom of having Cal left here. Due to his wicked presence, the fevered suffering of our humanity will reach its peak (and be healed) more quickly and finally. You might even say that this is a blessing in disguise?

Naturally, this appears less than obvious to Urantians in the midst of the painful experiential throes of our times.

A Dios amigos,
Michael Brent

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if caligastia was taken sooner then three times the number of beings would be led astray as many would feel this was heavy handed by the ancients of days.

54:5.13 12. Time, even in a universe of time, is relative: If a Urantia mortal of average length of life should commit a crime which precipitated world-wide pandemonium, and if he were apprehended, tried, and executed within two or three days of the commission of the crime, would it seem a long time to you? And yet that would be nearer a comparison with the length of Lucifer’s life even if his adjudication, now begun, should not be completed for a hundred thousand Urantia years. The relative lapse of time from the viewpoint of Uversa, where the litigation is pending, could be indicated by saying that the crime of Lucifer was being brought to trial within two and a half seconds of its commission. From the Paradise viewpoint the adjudication is simultaneous with the enactment. 54:5.10 9. On Jerusem the personal representative of the Supreme Executive of Orvonton counseled Gabriel to foster full opportunity for every living creature to mature a deliberate choice in those matters involved in the Lucifer Declaration of Liberty. The issues of rebellion having been raised, the Paradise emergency adviser of Gabriel portrayed that, if such full and free opportunity were not given all Norlatiadek creatures, then would the Paradise quarantine against all such possible halfhearted or doubt-stricken creatures be extended in self-protection against the entire constellation. To keep open the Paradise doors of ascension to the beings of Norlatiadek, it was necessary to provide for the full development of rebellion and to insure the complete determination of attitude on the part of all beings in any way concerned therewith. 54:5.12 11. An emergency council of ex-mortals consisting of Mighty Messengers, glorified mortals who had had personal experience with like situations, together with their colleagues, was organized on Jerusem. They advised Gabriel that at least three times the number of beings would be led astray if arbitrary or summary methods of suppression were attempted. The entire Uversa corps of counselors concurred in advising Gabriel to permit the rebellion to take its full and natural course, even if it should require a million years to wind up the consequences.

Amy wrote:
I'm trying to figure out why after Lucifer and Satan were incarcerated, Caligastia was left here to prosecute his nefarious designs. Seems to me he should have joined his buddies in jail after betraying our world.

[53:8.6] The last act of Michael before leaving Urantia was to offer mercy to Caligastia and Daligastia,
but they spurned his tender proffer. Caligastia, your apostate Planetary Prince, is still free on Urantia to
prosecute his nefarious designs, but he has absolutely no power to enter the minds of men, neither can he
draw near to their souls to tempt or corrupt them unless they really desire to be cursed with his wicked
presence.


There are plenty of mortals around who do in fact wish to be cursed with his wicked presence, and I am quite sure they have a hand in our world's many troubles at present, and on a large scale at that.


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I think they're talking about putting a full stop to the rebellion at its inception, and not so much about taking Cal.

Lucifer's contention was that his way was better, that he could help humanity evolve faster. The universe society in the lower worlds is a very tightly regulated and stringent place to live, and a lot of beings obviously have questions about doing things God's way. If they had put a stop to the rebellion at the very beginning, many beings would have thought that it was heavy-handed; that Lucifer was a well-meaning personality who had his freedom taken away and his experiments disregarded arbitrarily. This would have caused many souls to lose faith in God's government and to actually become rebels themselves, three times as many as in the fallen worlds.

So the choice for the decision-makers was an extreme one -- one which probably caused them a great deal of anguish. Do you let the criminals roam free in the fallen worlds to do as they will with their followers and let those worlds suffer the consequences, or do you stop them and rehabilitate the fallen worlds only to see three times as many individuals throughout the local universe to go astray? The decision to leave them alone would mean that for countless years, trillions of souls in the fallen worlds would say things like "if there was a God the world wouldn't be like this and there wouldn't be so much evil," like they still do here, and be led astray. One can only imagine what went through Gabriel's mind as these, and I'm sure many other horrible thoughts came up at the time.

Lucifer and his crew were allowed to play out their childish fantasies to the full, for two hundred thousand years. It was only after the Pentecost, just two thousand years ago, that Lucifer was finally taken in. Satan's turn came about a hundred years ago. Michael's successful mission here essentially meant that the Lucifer rebellion had been settled and adjudicated -- but technically, the trial still had to commence.

Taking Caligastia didn't have anything to do with how many total souls would be lost throughout Nebadon. Michael's petition to have the rebels removed after the Pentecost was granted except for Caligastia and probably a bunch of the other fallen princes. Undoubtedly, the universe rulers wanted all of the universe to see the ugliness play out to the bitter end, not only for all doubts about God's way to be settled in the minds of all who questioned it, but also to root out every rebel in the fallen worlds.

Look at them today, here in this world, thinking that it's all just meaningless, that they can do what they will with the ignorant and the weak, and laugh as they leave a trail of blood and destruction on their way to the bank. If they only knew.

We're at the end of it now. The world has reached the impasse. The harvest is here...

rich.sachs wrote:
if caligastia was taken sooner then three times the number of beings would be led astray as many would feel this was heavy handed by the ancients of days.

54:5.13 12. Time, even in a universe of time, is relative: If a Urantia mortal of average length of life should commit a crime which precipitated world-wide pandemonium, and if he were apprehended, tried, and executed within two or three days of the commission of the crime, would it seem a long time to you? And yet that would be nearer a comparison with the length of Lucifer’s life even if his adjudication, now begun, should not be completed for a hundred thousand Urantia years. The relative lapse of time from the viewpoint of Uversa, where the litigation is pending, could be indicated by saying that the crime of Lucifer was being brought to trial within two and a half seconds of its commission. From the Paradise viewpoint the adjudication is simultaneous with the enactment. 54:5.10 9. On Jerusem the personal representative of the Supreme Executive of Orvonton counseled Gabriel to foster full opportunity for every living creature to mature a deliberate choice in those matters involved in the Lucifer Declaration of Liberty. The issues of rebellion having been raised, the Paradise emergency adviser of Gabriel portrayed that, if such full and free opportunity were not given all Norlatiadek creatures, then would the Paradise quarantine against all such possible halfhearted or doubt-stricken creatures be extended in self-protection against the entire constellation. To keep open the Paradise doors of ascension to the beings of Norlatiadek, it was necessary to provide for the full development of rebellion and to insure the complete determination of attitude on the part of all beings in any way concerned therewith. 54:5.12 11. An emergency council of ex-mortals consisting of Mighty Messengers, glorified mortals who had had personal experience with like situations, together with their colleagues, was organized on Jerusem. They advised Gabriel that at least three times the number of beings would be led astray if arbitrary or summary methods of suppression were attempted. The entire Uversa corps of counselors concurred in advising Gabriel to permit the rebellion to take its full and natural course, even if it should require a million years to wind up the consequences.

Amy wrote:
I'm trying to figure out why after Lucifer and Satan were incarcerated, Caligastia was left here to prosecute his nefarious designs. Seems to me he should have joined his buddies in jail after betraying our world.

[53:8.6] The last act of Michael before leaving Urantia was to offer mercy to Caligastia and Daligastia,
but they spurned his tender proffer. Caligastia, your apostate Planetary Prince, is still free on Urantia to
prosecute his nefarious designs, but he has absolutely no power to enter the minds of men, neither can he
draw near to their souls to tempt or corrupt them unless they really desire to be cursed with his wicked
presence.


There are plenty of mortals around who do in fact wish to be cursed with his wicked presence, and I am quite sure they have a hand in our world's many troubles at present, and on a large scale at that.


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One response I find interesting that a few have said is that they believe the excecutioner's and diety are to harsh in destroying any of these beings.

The sad reality is that alot of these being's are allowed to live so long in sin (200,000 years of sin) because diety want to give them every opportunity to survive and when they achieve iniquity they are essentially just putting them out of their misery. Once they have rejected their family and god to the point where they are certain of their descision than there is nothing anyone can do because iniquity has already caused their mind to disconect with all of reality.

I find it a bit interesting that spiritual being's believe they can betray all of their family and god and still expect to keep their sanity. It's almost as though they learned nothing from the other rebellion's. Even evil tendancy's can disrupt the mind of a spiritual being, I can't imagine was prolonged sin would do. I imagine all of these being's looked intoxicated and weak as a result of their self induced insanity.

What is interesting also is that not a single Jeresum student rebelled. Obviously the divine adjuster had something to do with that.

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Amy wrote:
I'm trying to figure out why after Lucifer and Satan were incarcerated, Caligastia was left here to prosecute his nefarious designs. Seems to me he should have joined his buddies in jail after betraying our world.

[53:8.6] The last act of Michael before leaving Urantia was to offer mercy to Caligastia and Daligastia,
but they spurned his tender proffer. Caligastia, your apostate Planetary Prince, is still free on Urantia to
prosecute his nefarious designs, but he has absolutely no power to enter the minds of men, neither can he
draw near to their souls to tempt or corrupt them unless they really desire to be cursed with his wicked
presence.


There are plenty of mortals around who do in fact wish to be cursed with his wicked presence, and I am quite sure they have a hand in our world's many troubles at present, and on a large scale at that.


That seems to be the way God works. If you remember he allowed Lucifer free reign to spread his ideas. God compells no one to believe, it must be a choice. Also if you recall, the Prince's staff and student visitors were detained on this world till all made a final choice one way or the other. Once that happened the universe government stepped in, but not until all made a choice. If I remember correctly that took 7 years.


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What's amazing to me about all of this is the fact that the celestials CAN'T do anything about our situation. All the facts put together bring us to the conclusion that the rebellion was left to run its course because to intervene would have caused a situation three times worse -- three times as many souls would have been lost.

So in effect, the situation is analogous to someone having four sons, and being told that one of them has been taken captive and put in prison. He can choose to liberate this son and put him under his personal care again, but then the other three sons would be taken captive and imprisoned. What a choice for a father to make. He would have no choice but to let the first son remain a captive until the kidnappers are brought to justice, no matter how long that takes. What an incredibly, heart-wrenching dilemma for the celestials.


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Quote Rsarmast 8)
'' We're at the end of it now. The world has reached the impasse. The harvest is here...''

Hi Brother Robert
This Has Me Very Curious About What You Mean By ...
These Statements

'' We're at the end of it now.'' :?:

''The world has reached the impasse.'' :?:

AND ...
'' The harvest is here...'' :?:


Do You Mean That A New Dawn Will Spiritualy Awaken Upon
Our Planet For Mankind , Changes that Will Soon Lead Us Closer
To The Age Of Light and Life ?

That Many Great Changes Are just around the Corner for US ALL

'' The harvest is here...''
Judgement :?:

GODs WAY ... Or The Highway ?

Or Something Else :?:
Could You Clarify :?:

The Arrival of a Teacher , A Avonal Son Or Michael :?:

What Do You Mean BY The HARVEST :?:

Many Blessings to You an Yours Brother.

NAMASTE

Faith Son
Coop

20:2.3 Avonals are the Paradise Sons of service and bestowal to the individual planets of the local universes. And since each Avonal Son has an exclusive personality, since no two are alike, their work is individually unique in the realms of their sojourn, where they are often incarnated in the likeness of mortal flesh and sometimes are born of earthly mothers on the evolutionary worlds.


20:4.1 Prior to the planetary appearance of a bestowal Son, an inhabited world is usually visited by a Paradise Avonal on a magisterial mission. If it is an initial magisterial visitation, the Avonal is always incarnated as a material being. He appears on the planet of assignment as a full-fledged male of the mortal races, a being fully visible to, and in physical contact with, the mortal creatures of his day and generation. Throughout a magisterial incarnation the connection of the Avonal Son with the local and the universal spiritual forces is complete and unbroken.


20:4.4 Urantia has never been host to an Avonal Son on a magisterial mission. Had Urantia followed the general plan of inhabited worlds, it would have been blessed with a magisterial mission sometime between the days of Adam and the bestowal of Christ Michael. But the regular sequence of Paradise Sons on your planet was wholly deranged by the appearance of your Creator Son on his terminal bestowal nineteen hundred years ago.


35:2.6 When a Creator Son enters upon the bestowal career on an evolutionary world, he goes alone; but when one of his Paradise brothers, an Avonal Son, enters upon a bestowal, he is accompanied by the Melchizedek supporters, twelve in number, who so efficiently contribute to the success of the bestowal mission. They also support the Paradise Avonals on magisterial missions to the inhabited worlds, and in these assignments the Melchizedeks are visible to mortal eyes if the Avonal Son is also thus manifest.


49:5.25 When the intellectual and ethical progress of a human race has reached the limits of evolutionary development, there comes an Avonal Son of Paradise on a magisterial mission; and later on, when the spiritual status of such a world is nearing its limit of natural attainment, the planet is visited by a Paradise bestowal Son. The chief mission of a bestowal Son is to establish the planetary status, release the Spirit of Truth for planetary function, and thus effect the universal coming of the Thought Adjusters.


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Brother Coop,

I can state my personal conclusions after twenty years of exhaustive research. Truth is hard to bear sometimes, and reveals itself in a progressive nature within the minds of those who are spirit-led. It cannot be revealed or understood prematurely.

The UB was sent as an emergency measure exactly when the Lucifer trial began. It can only be understood in a comprehensive way by those who are spirit-led, few in this world as they are, and these souls are likely also members of the Reserve Corp. The UB brings the first revelation ever about this group, in just a couple of pages, and the text is rich with the mention of an unprecedented and extraordinary period for the human race -- a planetary emergency. It's my belief that the primary (but not the only) purpose of the UB is to educate and prepare this group for the arrival of an Avonal Son on a Magisterial Mission. Everything in the UB, and everything Jesus said about the time of harvest makes this conclusion incontrovertible in my mind. But it took a long long time and a lot of research to become certain, so I don't expect the same degree of certainly in others, please understand.

We're in the middle of this planetary emergency, which will slowly raise the planetary consciousness to a level where our species will face the fact that it must evolve, or perish. Some will, some won't. At some point it will boil up to a very heated state, and certain events are due to manifest which will test everyone's true nature. At some point during this period, an Avonal will appear in person, touchable and visible, along with twelve Melchizedek Sons, visible but not touchable, and a host of Teacher Sons and a host of celestials ready to initiate a new epoch. The judgement will commence with the announcement of the Avonal Son at some point, which will be somewhat simultaneous with the annihilation of the hardened rebels. This will not include rebel humans still in the flesh.

A new planetary government will begin to take shape, with the visible representatives back on our planet, and slowly life here will change for the better. It will not be sudden; everything in the universe having to do with human evolution takes time. After a thousand years, the era of light and life will commence.

What happens between right now and that time will be unprecedented, unheard of, and extraordinary. The old chapter is coming to an end, and the new chapter is about to begin. Many who used to be last shall become first, and many who were first are due to become last. Since the Lucifer trial and its verdict are due to affect every one of the fallen worlds along with the entire system, it's likely that what we will experience here will be similar, and somewhat simultaneous, with what all the other fallen worlds will experience. This is a huge and system-wide event.

As to the "when," that's only known in Paradise. But even mortals can see when fruit is ripening, when weeds seem to be threatening the existence of the wheat, and when the owner of the field needs to send in the gardener to save his crop.

It would be no fun to know when. But as for me, I expect it any day or hour...


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Well if any divine being comes, I hope they come visit Canada. :mrgreen:

How's the Eden search going Robert? Any new developments there? I alway's thought that the Eden discovery would be the one to get the Urantia Book famous.

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We're still working on the Eden Project, as more data becomes available due to oil/gas exploration, and more interesting technology comes up. But times are hard, and when times are hard these kinds of projects go on the back burner.

As far as making the UB famous, well, the UB can only become famous in a world that can understand it, and like I said earlier, "truth is hard to bear sometimes, and reveals itself in a progressive nature within the minds of those who are spirit-led. It cannot be revealed or understood prematurely."

Only those who have already rejected evolutionary religions and are actively seeking for more can hope to grasp the true nature of the UB, and assimilate its teachings. In our world that's not very many people. Hence, it can never be famous until a new spiritual renaissance arrives. This will likely be just prior to, during or just after the arrival of the Avonal Son.

The UB flies in the face of everything this backward and sorry planet holds dear and cherishes as truth. Two thousand years ago something far greater than the UB was here in the flesh raising the dead and they still didn't believe; don't expect much from a mere book.

All eyes are on the universe, awaiting the verdict...

boomshuka wrote:
Well if any divine being comes, I hope they come visit Canada. :mrgreen:

How's the Eden search going Robert? Any new developments there? I alway's thought that the Eden discovery would be the one to get the Urantia Book famous.


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I do not know the answer for your Query, but I have a few theories.

Since the staff, those who would become the Nodites were of Morontia form WITHOUT ADJUSTERS, many of the actions were the sheer expression of their soul without any chance for the Universal Father to bring corrections. See, these souls had to temporarily divorce their Thought Adjuster "Mystery Monitor" in order to step into the modified Andonite life-body-system. The staff's ascencion had been incomplete, very advanced from human point of view, yet not fully perfected in wisdom and service, and therefore is there more Mercy to be accorded for these creatures.
We can say, these were "supermen and women", yeah? But without the gift of the Universal Father, there was certain lack of discretion. It makes proof to the fact that Van was really good and loyal because he made his appeal without help from the Thought Adjuster.


Caligastia and Daligastia remain in order to elicit the true intentions of earthlings, in respect to the choice each and every soul' final continuance. After this stage of existence, your souls, the family who has passed from Urantia into the Mansion worlds will face absolutely no degree of malignant appeals. And it will be partly due to the fact that you have experienced many facets of the due challenges from temptation.
Compare this with Lucifer and Satan who have the power to tempt and confound even the soul.

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